Mattress shopping in the UK. Brand advice urgently requested

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
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1

Dear Pheonix,

I think I speak for everyone when I say that this site is a real goldmine of information.

As you can see, this post concerns locating suitable mattresses in the UK. Although I’m from the US, I now live in England and am in desperate need to buy a mattress for my unfurnished apartment before I move in next Tuesday. Otherwise, I’d just wait until the holidays and have one shipped over from my home in NC.

I have searched around the web for independent British mattress manufacturers but am afraid that I can’t seem to locate any of the same companies included on this site for the lucky US consumers (apart from the big ‘S’ name companies you suggest avoiding).

Do you have any recommendations for brands manufactured in Europe (or even better, in England) which include high quality materials? It would be great if I could test out and buy a mattress with the highest quality pocket coils, latex (it seems that Talalay might be better over the long-term) and comfort layer materials which will stay cool rather than too warm, as well as box springs (less common over here, from what I can see).

I am a fairly muscular man about 5 ft. 8" weighing around 180 - 195 lbs depending on the eating season, with a larger chest, shoulder and legs. I fall asleep on my back but usually end up on my side, so I assume I’d be looking for a comfort layer of around 3". Zone construction seems a bit too confusing and easy to mess up so I would be happy with differential or progressive (if I can get it right).

One more thing: I know that I’m about to mention a non-recomended brand, but I would love to find a replica of the mattress my parents keep in their home, if not a better model through an independent manufacturer. Unfortunately I can’t seem to find much information on what went into it because it’s 10 years old. Here it goes:

They have a Stearns and Foster Ellastone purchased in April 2004 with low profile box springs about 5 inches and a top that isn’t too cushy (I assume it might be a Eurotop rather than a pillow top). I would describe it as firm and dense with some cushioning, but not too much fluff. I have never slept deeper and woken up without pain as when I’m on that model.

Do you have any information on the construction of that model and whether I could improve on the materials with an independent brand?

Thank you greatly in advance for your response.

2

Hi lacabra,

Unfortunately … I don’t have any knowledge of the UK market so I won’t be able to help in terms of specific retailers or manufacturers I’m aware of there but the brand name of a mattress isn’t particularly important anyway because outside of how suitable a mattress is for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), a mattress is only as good as it’s construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer and the mattress materials that are used in the UK would generally be the same as the materials in North America (see post #5 here about “brand shopping”).

I would start with the mattress shopping tutorial here because it has the most important information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices no matter which country you live in although you will need to do more of the specific local research yourself about choosing the retailers or manufacturers that you wish to deal with and are more knowledgeable and transparent about the materials in their mattresses. Step #3 of the tutorial has more information about what I would look for and the types of questions to ask them on the phone (before you visit them) when you are deciding which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with.

I would avoid trying to predict which mattress is best for you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” and whether a mattress is “progressive” or “differential” or any other design really doesn’t make any difference if it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP and uses good quality materials. The only way to know whether a mattress is a good match for you is either careful testing using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post or if you can’t test a mattress in person then the most effective approach would be a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer that can help “talk you through” the options that they offer that would have the best chance of success based on the “averages” of their customers that are similar to you in terms of body type and sleeping style (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). Even the best mattress designers are often surprised at the difference between what a mattress was “supposed” to feel like based on specs and what the mattress feels like in “real life” so I would either focus on what your body tells you when you test mattresses.

I’m also happy to help to the degree I can if you have specific questions about any of the mattresses you come across or the materials inside them them but the same generic guidelines and information would apply in the UK as it does in North America or any other country … and the only difference is that you will need to do more of the research involved in finding the retailers or manufacturers that are transparent about what is in their mattresses and who already know what you would otherwise need to take much more time than you probably have to learn.

You can see some incomplete specs for the Ellastone here. There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” another one in post #9 here but Stearns & Foster doesn’t provide the type of specific information about the materials in their mattresses (either now or then) that would be necessary to be able to “approximate it” and even if you were to know it would be very unlikely that you would find another mattress that used exactly the same design, components, and materials in the same layer thicknesses and with the same type of cover anyway so the only practical way to assess whether another mattress feels similar to you would be your own personal testing and experience … not by specs.

Phoenix

3

Thank you for your help Pheonix.

I’ve spent the past week researching mattress sellers in the UK and have spoken to several over the phone at length. As I am going to physically try several out in the next few days using your guidelines in the tutorial, I now have a few specific questions regarding several of the contenders (if you wouldn’t mind commenting on them?)

I am very keen on the idea of natural and organic materials, but have some reservations on using too many natural fabrics in the comfort layers based on several of your posts here which talk about body indentations forming relatively quickly. So I am considering an innerspring with thin layers of latex in the comfort layers.

What are your thoughts concerning the following?

A.) http://www.abacaorganic.co.uk/whatwemake.html#d_denbigh

The sales rep told me that they don’t believe in using more than 2000 springs at the very max because of diminishing returns, and after explaining some of my preferences, recommended either the Chester or Snowden. I am partial to the former based on the inclusion of latex, but was wondering if you felt the other options (as well as the Monmouth or Denbigh) had weak links in the horsehair or mohair in the comfort layers (in the form they spin it into), or elsewhere in the construction.

She told me that sometimes it helps to buy a separate topper to assist with greater padding during nights where you feel achy or sore, but I was wondering if this might prove complicated to combine with another latex comfort layer (eg. the Chester) based on the manner in which they interact together- particularly for breathability. I am not sure if the latex is Dunlop or Talalay and she couldn’t remember off the top of her head.

In this event, would it be a good idea to opt for one of the other models without latex, and then add a different topper for me and my wife according to how we sleep? For example, I thought it might be a good idea to consider a wool topper for my wife (stomach sleeper): http://www.abacaorganic.co.uk/mattresspads_1.html

and a thicker one for me as a side sleeper: http://www.abacaorganic.co.uk/mattresspads_3.html

Or alternatively a compromise for both of us: http://www.abacaorganic.co.uk/mattresspads_2.html

B.) Natural Latex Mattress, Natural Latex Toppers, Latex Pillows - Latex Sense

I researched this model based on the inclusion of softer latex, but am concerned about the polyester padding and reflex foam. Do you feel that the difference between the Talalay and reflex foam layers is appropriate for a side sleeper and could the reflex foam be a weak link?

C.) Natural Latex Mattress, Natural Latex Toppers, Latex Pillows - Latex Sense

This model is completely natural which I prefer to the one above, but my issues with this revolve around the dunlop latex layers and whether they would be too firm. Do you feel that 8cm in the comfort layer above 2cm might not be a logical construction to make for a smooth transition when sinking down?

D.) http://www.somnus.co.uk/home/video/

I like the description of the Ortho-care model: (http://www.somnus.co.uk/bed-collection/supremacy-collection/ortho-care-royal/) although I think they get a bit too caught up in the spring count here. Their core springs don’t typically number more than 2000, but they use micro springs to increase the count and supposedly the support layers. Would this be a weak link? If you’ll look at the video between 1:55 - 2:00 I imagine that this depicts the basic construction for most of the models, but can’t imagine where they Talalay would be placed.

E.) http://www.vispring.co.uk/the-collection/luxury-beds-and-mattresses/luxury-beds/the-magnificence

This is one example of the beds in their range which use quite a few natural materials, similar to the Somnus line above. Again, do you feel the natural fabrics would be a weak link? To my mind, this site seems a bit better than the Somnus one based on the fact that you can see exactly what’s in each mattress.

Thank you again for your help.

4

Hi lacabra,

[quote]I am very keen on the idea of natural and organic materials, but have some reservations on using too many natural fabrics in the comfort layers based on several of your posts here which talk about body indentations forming relatively quickly. So I am considering an innerspring with thin layers of latex in the comfort layers.

What are your thoughts concerning the following?

A.) www.abacaorganic.co.uk/whatwemake.html#d_denbigh

The sales rep told me that they don’t believe in using more than 2000 springs at the very max because of diminishing returns, and after explaining some of my preferences, recommended either the Chester or Snowden. I am partial to the former based on the inclusion of latex, but was wondering if you felt the other options (as well as the Monmouth or Denbigh) had weak links in the horsehair or mohair in the comfort layers (in the form they spin it into), or elsewhere in the construction.

She told me that sometimes it helps to buy a separate topper to assist with greater padding during nights where you feel achy or sore, but I was wondering if this might prove complicated to combine with another latex comfort layer (eg. the Chester) based on the manner in which they interact together- particularly for breathability. I am not sure if the latex is Dunlop or Talalay and she couldn’t remember off the top of her head.

In this event, would it be a good idea to opt for one of the other models without latex, and then add a different topper for me and my wife according to how we sleep? For example, I thought it might be a good idea to consider a wool topper for my wife (stomach sleeper): www.abacaorganic.co.uk/mattresspads_1.html

and a thicker one for me as a side sleeper: www.abacaorganic.co.uk/mattresspads_3.html

Or alternatively a compromise for both of us: www.abacaorganic.co.uk/mattresspads_2.html[/quote]

I would keep in mind that while natural fibers will form some degree of impressions fairly quickly … this will vary based on the type of fiber, how they are made and tufted, and they will even out to some degree over the course of time as you sleep on different areas of the mattress or rotate or flip the mattress. The impressions also won’t effect sleep quality or PPP in the same way as softening or impressions in foam materials because this is part of how natural fibers respond over time and they become firmer as they compress rather than softer (see some comments in post #2 here and post #30 here).

One of the reasons for having thicker layers of natural fibers in the comfort layers is because of the breathability and temperature regulation of natural fiber materials (outside of the fact that some people prefer them based on how they “feel”) and if you add a latex topper then some of the benefits of this would be reduced or lost because you would be sleeping more on the latex rather than on the natural fibers. If you prefer or are focused on the benefits of sleeping on natural fiber comfort layers then I would probably stick to toppers that also use natural fibers (or at least use latex that is wrapped in natural fibers).

If you prefer the feel or performance of latex then I would choose a mattress that has latex comfort layers perhaps with natural fibers on top of them.

I wouldn’t consider natural fibers to be a weak link in a mattress … even if they form some degree of impressions … but the choice between natural fibers or other comfort materials such as latex would be a matter of personal preference rather than a “better/worse” choice and would be based on which one your testing indicates you tend to prefer.

In other words … I wouldn’t consider any of these mattresses to have any weak links in their design and I would choose between them based on which one your testing indicated was the best match in terms of PPP.

Having a different topper on each side of a mattress or a split layer mattress can also be a good idea for couples that have different needs and preferences if they can’t find a mattress that works equally well for both of them (see the first part of post #2 here) but once again I would make your choice based on testing the mattress/topper combination in person.

[quote]B.) Natural Latex Mattress, Natural Latex Toppers, Latex Pillows - Latex Sense

I researched this model based on the inclusion of softer latex, but am concerned about the polyester padding and reflex foam. Do you feel that the difference between the Talalay and reflex foam layers is appropriate for a side sleeper and could the reflex foam be a weak link?[/quote]

I don’t know the density of the reflex foam but it is underneath the latex and is less than 1" thick so I don’t think that either this or the polyester quilting would be a weak link (as long as the thickness of the polyester padding isn’t more than “about an inch or so” thick) but of course polyester won’t have the same temperature regulating benefits as natural fibers because they don’t absorb moisture.

You can see my thoughts about foam encasements for innersprings in post #2 here.

[quote]C.) Natural Latex Mattress, Natural Latex Toppers, Latex Pillows - Latex Sense

This model is completely natural which I prefer to the one above, but my issues with this revolve around the dunlop latex layers and whether they would be too firm. Do you feel that 8cm in the comfort layer above 2cm might not be a logical construction to make for a smooth transition when sinking down?[/quote]

I can’t speak to comfort issues because I can’t feel what you feel and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict how suitable a mattress will be for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). If the only materials in this mattress is the natural Dunlop latex and the pocket coils and the cover then there would be no weak links in this mattress so it would be worth considering if it was a good match for you in terms of PPP.

[quote]D.) www.somnus.co.uk/home/video/

I like the description of the Ortho-care model: (www.somnus.co.uk/bed-collection/supremac...on/ortho-care-royal/) although I think they get a bit too caught up in the spring count here. Their core springs don’t typically number more than 2000, but they use micro springs to increase the count and supposedly the support layers. Would this be a weak link? If you’ll look at the video between 1:55 - 2:00 I imagine that this depicts the basic construction for most of the models, but can’t imagine where they Talalay would be placed.[/quote]

They don’t mention all the specifics of this mattress (see this article) but microcoils are a breathable and durable component (see this article and post #10 here) so if there are only pocket coils, microcoils, latex, and natural fibers in this mattress then it wouldn’t have any weak links either.

[quote]E.) www.vispring.co.uk/the-collection/luxury...eds/the-magnificence

This is one example of the beds in their range which use quite a few natural materials, similar to the Somnus line above. Again, do you feel the natural fabrics would be a weak link? To my mind, this site seems a bit better than the Somnus one based on the fact that you can see exactly what’s in each mattress.[/quote]

VI Springs are one of the highest quality mattresses in the world (and are also very costly) and there are no weak links in any of their mattresses either.

You can also see some comments about “ultra premium” mattresses such as VI Springs in post #2 here.

There is more about the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase in post #13 here but the bottom line is that none of these mattresses appear to have any weak links in their materials or design so their “value” would really be based on which one is most suitable for you in terms of PPP and how they compare based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

5

Hi lacabra,

I should have mentioned this earlier but I came across a great UK site some time ago that has some very good information that would be well worth spending some time on. The first one is Factory-beds-direct (under the “all about…” menu link) for pocket coil / natural fiber mattresses and the second is their sister site John Ryan Contemporary (under the “all you need to know about” menu link) for other types of mattresses including latex and memory foam that would be well worth spending some time on. They would also be well worth talking to about their mattresses because they are very knowledgeable and are completely open and transparent about the materials they use and if nothing else they may be a good reference point for “value” as well.

Phoenix