Mattress stores to add to the Atlanta list...

[phoenix]

Hi NB,

First, latex. I’m wondering how anyone ever figures out what they like re: latex. When I went to Cantoni, they had 2 Savvy Rest beds set up, with different configurations on each side (so 4 options to try), ranging from softest to firmest. The first bed was all Talalay, and had 2 very soft configurations. I weigh over 200 pounds, so they were clearly too soft for me. Way too soft, without a doubt.

I didn’t like either configuration because they were both so soft that I immediately sunk way too far into the mattress… but I don’t have a good way to separate out “talalay” from “soft”, if that makes sense.

The next bed was all dunlop, and had 2 firmer configurations. I liked the firmest configuration (F-F-M) best of the 4… but I don’t know if I like dunlop better than talalay. It would have been helpful to have been able to test two beds with similar firmnesses, but different types of latex.

In very general terms there are many different reasons why some people like (or don’t like) latex compared to other types of materials. In very general terms some of the reasons include its resilience or “springiness”, it’s durability, its breathability (compared to other types of foam materials), the ease of movement on a latex mattress, or just the more subjective overall “comfort” or “feel” of latex.

Dunlop and Talalay also have different properties so the choice between them is really a preference choice vs a “better/worse” choice. There is more about the more general differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here but the best way to know which type of latex you tend to prefer in more general terms would be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

I wouldn’t generally relate firmness to the type of latex because both Talalay and Dunlop come in a very wide range of firmness levels that range from very soft to very firm so firmer versions of Talalay can be firmer than softer versions of Dunlop or the other way around. If two latex layers are the same thickness and ILD and both have been tested for firmness using the same testing criteria (which often isn’t the case) then Dunlop will normally feel a little bit firmer than Talalay because it has a higher compression modulus (the rate that a foam materials becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). The softest versions of Talalay (in the ILD range of the low teens) will generally be softer than the softest versions of Dunlop.

Not all the Savvy Rest stores carry all three firmness options for both types of latex although most of them provide the option to choose Dunlop or Talalay top layers.

As far as choosing a specific layering combination if you are at a local store then the only reliable way to decide would be based on your own careful testing for “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) on different combinations … hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial.

While nothing has a 100% success rate … with a local purchase for the majority of people careful testing using the guidelines in the tutorial rather than just testing for the more subjective “comfort” of a mattress (which often won’t predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will “feel” when you sleep on it at home) and some good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be “close enough” so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here).

Of course with a component mattress such as Savvy Rest you can also exchange a layer for a firmer or softer version as well if in spite of “best efforts” when you are testing in the store your actual sleeping experience indicates that you need to.

It’s a little bit crazy feeling. But I had been ready to order a Sleep Ez mattress before the visit, and afterwards, I wasn’t sure that I loved latex as much as I thought I would. I thought the mattresses felt a little like something was missing, and I think it might have been the bounce. I figured that I should try some hybrid mattresses before making a decision.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article). The best way to know which type of materials or which type of mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your own testing and personal experience because different people can have very different preferences.

Many people find that the type of mattresses they were leaning towards based on their “theoretical” reading is different from the type of mattresses they tend to prefer based on their actual testing and I would try to avoid having any predispositions towards certain types of mattresses when you are doing your testing or “trying to like” certain materials when you really don’t prefer them.

I would also keep in mind that there are hundreds of different configurations for every category of mattresses so only testing several examples may not necessarily mean that you don’t like other mattresses that have a different design that use the same materials and components but have a different “feel” or firmness level.

I’m sure that the old Marriott bed had been amazing, I think that’s what first made me aware of latex.).

The Marriott foam beds are made by Jamison and use high density polyfoam … not latex (although it’s possible that the one you slept on could have been different).

I’ve seen you say multiple times that the foundation can change the feel of the mattress, but hadn’t really thought much about that. After all, we rarely get to try a mattress on different foundations, so the effect of the foundation is a basically invisible.

When I was at NMM… the first mattress I tried was on adjustable Euro-slats. I didn’t know it at the time… but I really liked the mattress. Then I tried a few more. As it turns out, the slats made a huge difference for me. I tried a zoned latex mattress and thought that the zoning was what was improving the feeling (over the Savvy Rest mattresses, which felt a little dead, non-bouncy, and like I felt a “thud” when I sat on them) - but it wasn’t the zoning at all, it was the flexible slats. Admir was even kind enough to move the latex mattress from it’s slat platform to a regular foundation (with the solid, non-adjustable, non-flexing slats - the standard type that we see advertised for latex mattresses)… and the thud and non-bounciness was back. We moved the first mattress to a normal foundation, and suddenly, I didn’t like it nearly as much.

He also had two identical mattresses from Berkeley (the mattress with one set of coils and 2" of latex) - one on a regular (non-flexing) foundation and one on the Euro-slats. And, even before he told me the difference, I had a very clear preference for the Euro-slats (I didn’t realize at first that it was the same bed).

Foundations are normally a firm flat support system that have little to no flex so they wouldn’t affect the feel and firmness of a mattress and would normally be similar to putting your mattress on the floor in terms of supporting the mattress.

On the other hand … if a support system is designed to flex under the mattress (such as a flexible slat system or a box spring that has springs) then it can certainly have a significant effect on the feel and performance of a mattress … depending to some degree on the type and design of the mattress.

So, my questions were around how durable the slats actually are? These were the ones from Berkeley Ergonomics. The only other ones that I’m seeing online are from Flobeds which, with shipping, cost about the same (about $800, yikes).

I had assumed that with the regular foundation, I’d be able to use it forever (given it’s just some flat wood slats in a wooden box). Do the adjustable slats hold up well over time? They look a bit more fragile… is there a risk of sitting down too enthusiastically and cracking one of the flexible slats?

Questions:

1. Already asked above, but how is the durability on Euro-slats? What’s the risk of them breaking, falling out, or wearing out? Ideally, I’d like the keep my next foundation forever! Is that a possibility with these slats?

A good quality flexible slat system (such as the ones from Berkeley Ergonomics or Flobeds) would be very durable and will last for many years so durability isn’t something that I would be concerned about. While I wouldn’t expect anything to last forever and there can always be some risk of breaking a slat … good quality slats are very strong and the risk would be low.

It also seems (from reading some old entries here) that it can be difficult for people to get the slats right? I hate the fussiness of them… but I can’t deny that they felt much better to me.

This can be true in some cases for those that are more sensitive but for the most part and for “most people” it wouldn’t be an issue because the setting doesn’t have to be “exact” down to the finest increment of adjustability.

2. With the Euro slats, can you still use a box spring encasement or a fitted sheet to cover the foundation? Or would the fabric over the top interfere with the flexible wooden slats?

If you are one of the few that needs a mattress encasement because of severe allergies (for most people a mattress protector is enough) then you would only need to use it around the mattress and the flexible slats wouldn’t normally need an encasement. Fitted sheets also only need to fit the mattress itself and not the flexible slat system underneath it.

3. I’ve seen people say that if you’re on the heavier side, you need a thicker mattress. I’m wondering if the Euro-slats actually help with that (i.e. could you get away with a thinner mattress, even if you’re a bit heavier, b/c the slats act like another layer)?

Yes a flexible slat system would act as an additional “active” layer in a mattress so it would certainly be possible that you may only need a thinner mattress. In the case of an all latex mattress the effects of a flexible slat system would be more noticeable on a thinner mattress than on a thicker mattress but with a pocket coil mattress the effects will more noticeable than they will with an all latex mattress.

The thickness of a mattress or the number of layers or the thickness of any individual layers inside it is really just a side effect of the design and the design goals of a mattress and is also only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress relative to any particular person and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful (see post #2 here). In some cases higher weight ranges (or a higher BMI) will sometimes do better with a mattress that is thicker than lower weight ranges or a lower BMI (see post #14 here for more about the effect of thickness) but even this depends more on the specific design and combination of materials in the mattress and on how well your testing or personal experience indicates the mattress “as a whole” (including any flexible slat system underneath it) matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP than it does on just the thickness itself.

There is also more about flexible slat systems in post #2 here and the posts it links to. Since a flexible slat system is an “active” part of a sleeping system (just like any other layer or component either in, under, or over a mattress that flexes or compresses when you sleep on it) the only reliable way to know whether a flexible slat system would be an improvement for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP compared to a non flexing support system under the same mattress would be based on your own actual experience when you test it or sleep on it in person and compare both types of support systems under the same mattress. Depending on the design of the mattress, for some people it could be neutral, for some people it could be an improvement, and for some it could be detrimental (although it certainly appears that for you it appears to be beneficial under the mattresses you tried).

Thanks for the kind comments as well … I appreciate them

Phoenix