Thanks again!
As a point of clarification regarding SelectFoam, according to Peter (who has been great by the way) while SelectFoam is not CertiPUR certified (in order to save on certification costs), the foam from their US manufacturer is (as you expected).
After final diligence, decided to go with Select Foam’s Cirrus Luxe. Will keep you posted on experience once received. What I can say right away, it seems that they have recovered from the holiday crush resulting in delayed shipping noted in other threads. I placed my order on 2/17. The foundation and frame are to arrive 2/23 and the mattress is en route with a arrival date of 3/1. Communication and status updates have been awesome and prompt.
Hi hwuya,
I’m glad to see that they are up to date … and congratulations on your new mattress 
I’m looking forward to your feedback when you’ve received it and had the chance to sleep on it.
Phoenix
My granddaughter has a Night therapy gel memory foam mattress and when I visited her recently I slept on it for a week. I was simply amazed at how wonderful I felt after sleeping on it the first night! I suffer from back problems and have never slept a full night since my back issues began over 23 years ago. I want to get one, but want a king size, hers was a full size. When I went to Sams Club website discovered they don’t have the Night Therapy in a 10", which is what my granddaughter had, for a king size bed. Does anyone know anything about the Vivon gel memory foam mattresses? Thank you for any assistance you can provide.
earleybird, I can’t say for sure that there are ‘no’ differences but most of it I believe is branding and possibly different covers. Night Therapy, Vivon, Best Price Mattress (amazon), Spa Sensations (Walmart exclusive) are all part of the Sleep Revolution company which belongs to Zinus. Vivon seem to be their more pricey line. If I had to guess, they all use the same or very similar materials. One of their drawbacks, they use 3lb density memory foam which is on the lower end for durability (unless specific models use 4lb possibly) but I don’t believe any of them use 5lb density memory foam. They’re chinese foams but they’re CertiPur certified.
You mentioned specifically the Night Therapy gel memory foam in 10" king size, so I’m assuming it’s the 10" “MyGel” model. It is avail at amazon. Not sure if posting the link is allowed or not, I don’t benefit from it. But if you search amazon for “night therapy gel memory foam mattress” a few links down it lists the queen - if you click it, the product page lists all sizes. It’s $473.38 with free shipping at the moment for a king size. I’m not sure how that compares with Sams Club pricing you were looking at or if you had a reason for preferring Sams Club (ease of return/warranty etc, membership perks). I believe Night Therapy are also available through Kmart/Sears.
Hope this helps.
Hi earlybird,
I think that most of my comments would “echo” brass’ comments. As he mentioned I would always make sure that you know the quality of all the materials in any mattress you purchased because most of the Zinus brands tend to use some lower quality/density materials in their mattresses which would be a “weak link” in the mattress in terms of durability.
A forum search on Vivon (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments about them.
A forum search on Night Therapy (you can just click the link here as well) will also bring up more comments about them as well.
They both use memory foam that is CertiPur certified* (and see here* for each brand as well) but of course are also shipped compressed from China (see post #6 here) which outside of the use of lower density foams can also have some effect on the durability of the mattress.
ADMIN NOTE: *Removed 404 page link|Archived Footprint 1:certipur.us/pages/find-a-foam-supplier/zinus-2/|Archived Footprint 2: certipur.us/pages/for-consumers/find-products/ & replaced with latest CertiPUR link
The best place to start your mattress research is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
I have no problems with anyone posting any links on the forum as long as they don’t link to a company that someone would benefit from or has a direct or indirect interest in (with the exceptions that are mentioned in the forum rules).
A google search on 10" night therapy memory foam will bring up several 10" Night Therapy mattresses and several sources for them but I’m guessing that the MyGel on Amazon you meant is here and there is also a non gel 10" Night Therapy here on Amazon as well although I personally wouldn’t consider either of them or any mattress that included lower quality or unknown materials.
Phoenix
Hi Weettertur,
I’m not clear why you are posting the name of a mattress with no additional comments, context, or questions to go with it?
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Your guidance has been extremely helpful. I am considering two beds from Selectabed, the Soft-Pedic and the Copia from their higher end line. I think I have decided what I want my Top Layers to be (either 2 inches of 4lb Memory Foam on top of 2 inches of 5lb Memory foam or 4 inches of 5lb Memory Foam in either 1 or 2 layers. My question for you is regarding the 6 or 7 inches of support foam underneath. I have read in several posts your mention of liking “Latex” better than PolyFoam or HD-HR Polyurethane. Can you elaborate on the differences between these two support layers and, in your view the advantages and disadvantages of both?
I was all set on the Copia and then read a post from you that discussed the soft-Pedic and the benefit of the 3 inch Latex Layer, and I wanted to consider that one. I don’t mind paying the higher price of the Copia, and I am leaning that way, but I’m wondering if this could be a case where the lesser expensive model may be a better fit for me.
I am a side and back sleeper and want a Medium to Firm mattress that supports my aching lower back, but also gives good pressure relief for my shoulders and hips.
Thank you in advance.
EPmattresshunter
Hi EPmattresshunter,
Unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and specs and different layering combinations and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you … I would tend to avoid using individual specs such as layer thicknesses or ILD numbers or other complex specs to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you and focus more on your own actual testing and/or personal experience. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that you may not fully understand then the most common outcome is information overload and “paralysis by analysis”.
There is more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP in post #2 here that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for once you actually sleep on your mattress but when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, any special considerations you may have, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs or firmness options to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.
Assuming that two materials you are comparing are good quality and durable versions of that material and neither one would be a weak link in the mattress … the choice between different types of materials or components in a mattress is just a preference or a budget choice rather than a better/worse choice and one person’s preferences (including mine) may be very different from someone else. For example I personally prefer the “feel” of sleeping on latex vs memory foam but there are many people who don’t like latex at all and prefer the feel of memory foam vs latex. I also “like” the “feel” of comfort layers that use relatively thin layers of latex on top of relatively thin layers of memory foam because they provide some surface resilience from the latex with some of the slower “sinking in” feeling of memory foam underneath it. Other people prefer the “feel” of a slower responding and more motion isolating memory foam top layer with some latex underneath it so the “surface feel” is provided more by the memory foam which is modified by the resilience of the latex underneath it. There are almost infinite combinations of “feel” that are possible by combining different types of materials and components in different thicknesses and positions in a mattress but they are all just preferences … not better/worse choices.
The upper layers of a mattress are generally the weakest link of the mattress in terms of durability and are the layers where the quality/durability of the materials is particularly important. The regular deflection/compression of a foam material is what softens or breaks down foam over time and the softer upper layers of a mattress will deflect and compress more deeply and more often than the firmer deeper layers so the deeper support core of a mattress underneath the comfort layers is rarely the weakest link in the mattress so having a latex support core vs a high quality polyfoam support core would make little difference for most people in terms of durability.
You will also “feel” the properties of upper layers more than deeper layers as well so in most cases you would really be comparing the “feel” of memory foam with the “feel” of latex rather than the “:feel” of polyfoam with latex. There is more about the pros and cons of memory foam vs latex in post #2 here but the most reliable way to know which type of material you tend to prefer would be based on your own local testing on a range of mattresses that have either memory foam or latex comfort layers.
While it would depend on the specifics of the polyfoam or latex you are comparing … in very general terms latex is a more resilient (springy), point elastic (contouring), breathable, and more durable material than most types of polyfoam but you would feel much less of these differences if you are comparing deeper layers in a mattress than you would if you are comparing layers that are closer to the surface so there would be much less benefit to using a latex support core under relatively thick comfort layers vs using a good quality/density polyfoam support core.
If a mattress uses latex In middle transition layers rather than in the comfort layers (where you would feel the latex more) or the bottom support layers (where you would feel the latex less) then how much it would affect the “feel” of the mattress would depend on the type and thickness of the layers above it and on the body type, sleeping positions, and sensitivity of the person sleeping on the mattress. If the latex transition layer is in the same depth or position in the mattress as another mattress that uses polyfoam in the same depth and position and they both had the same type and thickness of layers on top of them then depending on the person and the thickness of the layers above them the latex could add some extra contouring and resilience to the mattress which some people may prefer and which some people would probably notice more than others.
Again though … I would keep in mind that I don’t have any personal experience with sleeping on any of their mattresses so they will know more about the specific differences in “feel” between their different models and would be the best source of guidance to help you choose between the different options they have available.
Phoenix
Thanks so much. I didn’t realize you preferred latex as your top layer. Your comments make sense now. I actually do currently sleep on a old latex mattress, but am switching to Memory Foam after Trialing one for a week (on vacation) and visiting and trying several retail outlets.
I was just trying to determine if Latex below the comfort layer offered any real or perceived benefits over Poly Foam in terms of support/Firmness and mattress longevity.
Thanks again.
Hi EPmattresshunter,
Both polyfoam and latex come in a very wide range of firmness levels so any differences in firmness would depend on the specific firmness of the layers you were comparing. Outside of any firmness differences between one or the other … the main differences would be in how the different “properties” of each material feel to you which in turn would depend on the position of the layer in the mattress, the thickness of the layers above it (and the thickness of the layer itself), na on the body type, sleeping style, and sensitivity of the person on the mattress (heavier body types or side sleepers will compress the top layers more so they may “feel” some of the deeper layers more than those that are lighter or sleep in other positions).
If the polyfoam is a higher density version and is deeper in the mattress then it would make much less difference in terms of durability (see the quality/durability guidelines here).
None of their mattresses have any lower quality materials or “weak links” in their design.
Phoenix
I emailed christeli about their memory foam only beds asking for specifics. The response was not customer service friendly and certainly not transparent
“Memory foam is 5.3 and support foam is 2.0 density. The thickness depends on mattress, You can see that on our
site . We do not give out Ild information .”
I emailed purecraft beds about their tru essence 11 inch Mattress.
they are super friendly and happy to answer questions. They say the 1.8lb base foam is fine for heavier weights because their core is 2.4 or 2.5lbs- thoughts?
Hi Ari,
[quote]I emailed christeli about their memory foam only beds asking for specifics. The response was not customer service friendly and certainly not transparent
“Memory foam is 5.3 and support foam is 2.0 density. The thickness depends on mattress, You can see that on our
site . We do not give out Ild information .”[/quote]
I’m not sure exactly what information you asked for or how you asked for it in your email, but I wouldn’t necessarily agree with your characterization. While their reply (at least what you posted of it) doesn’t “come across” as overly gregarious, they did provide foam density information (some of which is already provided on their web site).
The memory foam mattress line they show on their web site has 6 models, and they list the density of their memory foam for each model and the thickness of those memory foam layers. The density of the polyfoam core isn’t listed, but they confirmed for you it is 2 lb, which would be a good quality material. I’m not sure if you were asking them to run down the complete specifications of their entire line up, but sometimes customer service representatives via email don’t have the time to do that (although it would be nice), especially when most of the information is already listed on their web site. They’re usually able to be more complete if you have a question on one specific item.
Regarding ILD, all the information you need to know is in this article. While the specs that affect the quality and durability of the layers and components are important to know … “comfort specs” such as ILD/IFD aren’t really necessary or even an important part of transparency in a mattress like this. ILD/IFD itself is also only one of several factors or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm a layer or a mattress will feel to different people and can sometimes be more misleading and confusing than helpful (see post #4 here). In this situation, all memory foam tends to be softer (in the low to mid-teen range, and there is variation on how this is measured via time/temperature so ILDs can be difficult to compare), so Christeli has opted to compare their feels to common Tempurpedic models, which for most people would be a more reliable/relatable indicator of comfort.
Many memory foam brands are also well aware that many of their customers may just be “phone showrooming” their mattresses and may be intending to purchase a similar mattress or combinations of layers and components elsewhere so they would have no reason to disclose ILD/IFD information to a potential customer. I would consider ILD/IFD information to be a legitimate part of what many manufacturers consider to be “proprietary” information and it wouldn’t be very meaningful and only add to the confusion for most consumers anyway.
If you desire more complete information, or are curious about a specific model or desire more complete information about how a model might compare to something you’ve tested locally, I’ll always recommend a phone call as opposed to an email or chat session, as you’ll get more complete and direct information in real-time from any company/manufacturer.
[quote]I emailed purecraft beds about their tru essence 11 inch Mattress.
they are super friendly and happy to answer questions. They say the 1.8lb base foam is fine for heavier weights because their core is 2.4 or 2.5lbs- thoughts?[/quote]
I’m happy you received some good answer to your questions from Pure Crafted Beds. As you’re probably aware, Pure Crafted Beds is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.
The TruEssence 11" uses a 3" 1.8 lb polyfoam base (slightly thicker than most base foam), with a polyfoam core above that which is 2.4 lb or 2.5 lb (the mattress is available as a Firm or Cushion Firm), and on top of that is 2.25" of 4 lb gel memory foam. This mattress uses good quality and durable materials. The 1.8 lb in the polyfoam base is a little thicker than what is normally used, but the core is a very good density at 2.4 or 2.5 lb, and this would be a durable material for any weight range. The 2.25" of 4 lb. of convoluted gel memory foam is less than I would normally like to see for someone in a higher BMI range, so I would advise a slight caution there. I wouldn’t hesitate to contact Pure Crafted Beds via phone with any specific questions you might have, as they are quite knowledgeable and have experience producing many other styles of mattresses that aren’t listed on their web site.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix!
The reason I like email is I have clear notes to refer back to …this is all so confusing !
Phoenix!
I have another question lol
I think I have seen you say before that 1.8lb base foam is not great for the higher weight ranges? But in the post talking about the purecraft you seem ok with it. Can you elaborate? I’m confused
Almost all of these mem foam beds use 1.8 lb base foam
Hi Ari,
[quote]I think I have seen you say before that 1.8lb base foam is not great for the higher weight ranges? But in the post talking about the purecraft you seem ok with it. Can you elaborate? I’m confused
Almost all of these mem foam beds use 1.8 lb base foam[/quote]
I think that you’re confusing base polyfoam versus the comfort layers. I will provide a caution for higher BMIs and certain densities of foams, depending upon where those foams are located. This doesn’t mean that the foams would be inappropriate necessarily, but that there might be a tradeoff in durability.
With the upper comfort layers, I would recommend 2 lb for polyfoam versus 1.8 lb, but if 1.8 lb was used in the quilt I’d rather see it in the “inch or so” range.
I advise something similar for the polyfoam support core of a mattress for people of a higher BMI. 2.0 lb would be more durable than 1.8 lb, and 2.2 lb more durable yet (beyond this the density of HD polyfoam may not make much difference depending on how the density was achieved) and firmer would be more durable than softer (but probably require more foam above it), but none of these would likely be a weak link of the mattress depending on how much compression forces they were subject to and the thickness of the comfort layers. I explain this in a bit more detail in post #8 here, which was part of one of the links in the higher BMI link I provided earlier.
In the mattress you were considering from Pure Crafted Beds, this mattress uses a support polyform core of 2.4 or 2.5 lbs, which would be a high quality polyfoam, Beneath this is a base layer. Base layers are commonly 1" - 2", but this one is 3". Again, this is not the support core of the mattress, but a thinner base layer. The thinner base layer on the bottom of a mattress is evenly compressed rather than compressed more under the heavier areas of the body and less under the lighter parts of the body that have a larger surface area. The bottom layers will also compress less than the upper layers would if the same layers were on top of the mattress because the materials above them will absorb most of the compression forces and these forces also spread over a larger surface area as they travel through the mattress to the bottom layers. In this respect, I wouldn’t be as concerned with a bit of a lower density polyfoam base layer in the mattress you described.
Again, the recommendations I provide are meant as cautions to where you may experience slight shortcomings in durability over time for certain applications, but they aren’t necessarily meant to disqualify any particular item. I don’t recommend buying a mattress based purely on theoretical specs or what I call “theory at a distance” alone without doing some local testing first so you have a reference point for how all the different specs and combinations feel and perform for you. Different people (even of similar body types and sleeping styles) can perceive and interact with the same specs very differently. There are just too many variables in both body type (even at the same weight) and sleeping positions (there are many more combinations than just the three basic types) and personal preferences involved to be able to use specs alone to predict with certainty what any specific person will do best with.
Having said that … if you do choose to make a purchase based on “theory at a distance” … then I would go with the suggestions of the manufacturer or retailer you are working with. Each may have a different suggestion for you based on their knowledge of their specific designs and on their experience and feedback from their customers so you won’t find a “standard” set of suggestions between manufacturers based on specs alone. In general, they will use their knowledge of their mattresses along with the more detailed information that you provide on a phone call (about your specs, mattresses you have tested or are used to, and your preferences) to make a suggestion based on their best estimate about which of the mattresses they make or sell will likely suit you best. They will usually be fairly accurate for most people (most people do well with a range of specs or designs rather than an exact set of specs) but there is always the possibility that you are outside the “averages” they use so if for any reason their best suggestion doesn’t match what you need or prefer … then the ability to change the layering and/or their return or exchange policies can play an important role in your decision as well.
I hope that helps clarify things for you a bit.
Phoenix
Thank you that was very helpful!
Hi Ari,
You’re welcome.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
This is what nectar sent me regarding their specs- they ignored me request for the ILDs
NECTAR’s foam layers include “Lush” 1-inch four lb semi-open fast-recovery gel memory foam, a 3-inch 3.5lb memory foam with a medical grade cooling and recovery levels and finally a 2.2lb high density base foam.
Do you think nectar specs would be better for higher BMIs then Wrights you got off the site
1.5" of 4 lb, 10 ILD memory foam on top of 2" of 3 lb 18 ILD high performance polyfoam on top of 1.5" of 5 lb 20 ILD high performance polyfoam (the high performance polyfoam layers have similar properties to memory foam without the slow response) on top of a 6" 1.8 lb 30 ILD polyfoam base layer
My problem mainly with a lot of these beds is my lower back isn’t getting the support it needs and I wonder if it’s not the 1.8lb base foam? An example would be the nest alexander medium which hurt my lower back also 1.8lb base