Thanks Phoenix!
The reason I like email is I have clear notes to refer back to …this is all so confusing !
Phoenix!
I have another question lol
I think I have seen you say before that 1.8lb base foam is not great for the higher weight ranges? But in the post talking about the purecraft you seem ok with it. Can you elaborate? I’m confused
Almost all of these mem foam beds use 1.8 lb base foam
Hi Ari,
[quote]I think I have seen you say before that 1.8lb base foam is not great for the higher weight ranges? But in the post talking about the purecraft you seem ok with it. Can you elaborate? I’m confused
Almost all of these mem foam beds use 1.8 lb base foam[/quote]
I think that you’re confusing base polyfoam versus the comfort layers. I will provide a caution for higher BMIs and certain densities of foams, depending upon where those foams are located. This doesn’t mean that the foams would be inappropriate necessarily, but that there might be a tradeoff in durability.
With the upper comfort layers, I would recommend 2 lb for polyfoam versus 1.8 lb, but if 1.8 lb was used in the quilt I’d rather see it in the “inch or so” range.
I advise something similar for the polyfoam support core of a mattress for people of a higher BMI. 2.0 lb would be more durable than 1.8 lb, and 2.2 lb more durable yet (beyond this the density of HD polyfoam may not make much difference depending on how the density was achieved) and firmer would be more durable than softer (but probably require more foam above it), but none of these would likely be a weak link of the mattress depending on how much compression forces they were subject to and the thickness of the comfort layers. I explain this in a bit more detail in post #8 here, which was part of one of the links in the higher BMI link I provided earlier.
In the mattress you were considering from Pure Crafted Beds, this mattress uses a support polyform core of 2.4 or 2.5 lbs, which would be a high quality polyfoam, Beneath this is a base layer. Base layers are commonly 1" - 2", but this one is 3". Again, this is not the support core of the mattress, but a thinner base layer. The thinner base layer on the bottom of a mattress is evenly compressed rather than compressed more under the heavier areas of the body and less under the lighter parts of the body that have a larger surface area. The bottom layers will also compress less than the upper layers would if the same layers were on top of the mattress because the materials above them will absorb most of the compression forces and these forces also spread over a larger surface area as they travel through the mattress to the bottom layers. In this respect, I wouldn’t be as concerned with a bit of a lower density polyfoam base layer in the mattress you described.
Again, the recommendations I provide are meant as cautions to where you may experience slight shortcomings in durability over time for certain applications, but they aren’t necessarily meant to disqualify any particular item. I don’t recommend buying a mattress based purely on theoretical specs or what I call “theory at a distance” alone without doing some local testing first so you have a reference point for how all the different specs and combinations feel and perform for you. Different people (even of similar body types and sleeping styles) can perceive and interact with the same specs very differently. There are just too many variables in both body type (even at the same weight) and sleeping positions (there are many more combinations than just the three basic types) and personal preferences involved to be able to use specs alone to predict with certainty what any specific person will do best with.
Having said that … if you do choose to make a purchase based on “theory at a distance” … then I would go with the suggestions of the manufacturer or retailer you are working with. Each may have a different suggestion for you based on their knowledge of their specific designs and on their experience and feedback from their customers so you won’t find a “standard” set of suggestions between manufacturers based on specs alone. In general, they will use their knowledge of their mattresses along with the more detailed information that you provide on a phone call (about your specs, mattresses you have tested or are used to, and your preferences) to make a suggestion based on their best estimate about which of the mattresses they make or sell will likely suit you best. They will usually be fairly accurate for most people (most people do well with a range of specs or designs rather than an exact set of specs) but there is always the possibility that you are outside the “averages” they use so if for any reason their best suggestion doesn’t match what you need or prefer … then the ability to change the layering and/or their return or exchange policies can play an important role in your decision as well.
I hope that helps clarify things for you a bit.
Phoenix
Thank you that was very helpful!
Hi Ari,
You’re welcome.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
This is what nectar sent me regarding their specs- they ignored me request for the ILDs
NECTAR’s foam layers include “Lush” 1-inch four lb semi-open fast-recovery gel memory foam, a 3-inch 3.5lb memory foam with a medical grade cooling and recovery levels and finally a 2.2lb high density base foam.
Do you think nectar specs would be better for higher BMIs then Wrights you got off the site
1.5" of 4 lb, 10 ILD memory foam on top of 2" of 3 lb 18 ILD high performance polyfoam on top of 1.5" of 5 lb 20 ILD high performance polyfoam (the high performance polyfoam layers have similar properties to memory foam without the slow response) on top of a 6" 1.8 lb 30 ILD polyfoam base layer
My problem mainly with a lot of these beds is my lower back isn’t getting the support it needs and I wonder if it’s not the 1.8lb base foam? An example would be the nest alexander medium which hurt my lower back also 1.8lb base
Which , by numbers , do you think would support a higher bmi better- and to be clear we are not even talking 250 lbs or over so this shouldn’t be that hard!
purecraft TruEssence 11 or the Wright with the new specs you posted? The new wright specs are not supporting any part of my back at all.
Still speculation that Nectaris not 100% transparent about where there bed comes from so I’d be hesitant to order theirs.
I am getting a little desperate for a good nights sleep
The 2.25" of 4 lb. of convoluted gel memory foam is less than in inches or lbs?
wouldn’t a higher BMI crush through the 3 inches of memory foam on top into the support foam? is the3" of 5.3lb Memory Foam dense enough to stop that from happening?
wouldn’t a higher BMI crush through the 3 inches of memory foam on top into the support foam? is the3" of 5.3lb Memory Foam dense enough to stop that from happening?
Sleep warehouse is recommending 2.25 30 ILD HD HR poly base (I am not sure how many inches yet) I was hoping for a higher ild (website says they have it)- is this supportive enough for a higher Bmi?
They also say The 3" 5 lb Aerus plus will be the best comfort layer - I think this would be nice and supportive?
Not sure what goes in between lol. What would be a good transition layer? I am hoping for an 11" thick bed
Hard to get them on the phone. I always get voicemail then wait to hear back
Hi Ari,
Some of the common IFD/ILD ranges for polyfoam are listed inthis chart from the Polyurethane Foam Association. While you of course want to know all of the layers of whatever mattress you’re considering, as all of the layers of a mattress work together, a 30 ILD would be on the generally accepted “lower” end of the spectrum for IFD/ILD of a polyfoam core for those of a higher BMI. The density of the foam at 2.25 lb would be good quality.
The Aerus memory foam at 5 lb would be a good quality memory foam, but memory foam itself is not a “supportive” material, but instead relies upon the firmer and more resilient foam layers and components placed beneath it to provide deep support and assist with maintaining a more neutral alignment.
A transition layer could be latex, microcoil, natural fibers, or buckling column gel (I wouldn’t recommend more memory foam at a higher BMI), but most common designs would probably be a layer of polyfoam. I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and “match” every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or alternatively use a “bottom up” approach (see post #2 here).
When designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components, the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process.
Have you contacted Rocky Mountain Mattress? They are a site member here and have configurable memory foam options using Aerus memory foam plus high density polyfoam cores of higher ILDs. They are quite experienced with different memory foam designs and may be a good reference for you as well.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
I lik the sound of latex as a transition layer 
how many inches would depend on if it was medium or firm?
I had no plans on doing a DIY all I did was tell sleep warehouse that I was interested in a better base foam then the one for the bed they show online and it turned into this
I gave Rocky Mountain all the details about me and my bed woes etc , I requested specific info on one of their 12" mattresses and they recommended one of their 8" (sunrise) and one of their 10"(Sundance)
While I appreciate their recommendations I have no interest in an 8" mattress. Even the 10 at my bmi seems a little thin.
I think the highest basefoam they have is 29 ifd with a 2.5 rating - But that would be the low end of what’s recommended for higher bmi’s , correct?
Thanks Phoenix!
Hi Ari,
There isn’t an exact answer to your question, as overall comfort is not only determined by all of the layers contained within a mattress, but also the density, ILD, style of foam, compression modulus, layering and thickness of the layers used, among other things.
In general, the thickness of a mattress is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness etc) and on all the other layers in the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how thick it may be.
The main benefit of a thicker mattress is that it can be more adaptable for heavier weights and multiple sleeping positions. It will compress from softer to firmer more gradually which means that there is more “range” of compression without the mattress becoming too firm for heavier weights (or parts of the body).
Thickness and softness work together and because thicker layers (or mattresses) can have a greater range of compression and are more “adaptable” … it’s also possible to use firmer top layers in a thicker mattress and still have good pressure relief because of the greater range of compression of the thicker mattress which can create a mattress with a firmer “surface feel” but that still provides good pressure relief and adapts well to the body contours.
One other benefit of thicker component-style mattresses that have multiple layers that can be rearranged or exchanged is that there are more layering combinations possible for changing and fine tuning the performance and feel of the mattress but in many cases this wouldn’t be necessary and in some cases can lead to a level of complexity that can make predicting how the layers interact more difficult (see post #2 here. )
So the overall thickness of a mattress that is either “needed” or “preferred” would depend on the combinations of the layers and components that are needed to achieve the design goal of the mattress and provide the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) that can best match each person and their unique body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.
While knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is always important … unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and components and their specs and different layering combinations and mattress designs and how they combine together and can translate them into your own “real life” experience that can be unique to you (which would generally be a very small percentage of people) … I would agree and tend to avoid going the DIY route and avoid using complex specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs or only based on specs for single layers or components that may not be as relevant or meaningful as you believe it is then the most common outcome is “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”. Even the best mattress designers in the industry are often surprised at what a mattress they design “should have felt like” based on the specs when they design it and what it “actually feels like” when they test out their new design. I would instad tend to rely upon the recommendations from knowledgeable manufacturers or layering combinations that have been shown to work well together. Ultimately, the only way to know whether any specific mattress design or combination of layers and components is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP with any certainty will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience when you sleep on it
Did you have an actual phone conversation with them, or simply submit an email to them? I’d recommend a detailed phone conversation with any business or manufacturer you’re considering, as you’ll be best able to receive the largest amount of accurate and specific information in the shortest amount of time.
No, they have polyfoam for support cores up to at least 40 ILD.
Phoenix
I don’t have enough knowledge for DIY and it could wind up a costly mistake that I would be stuck with
The lady at Rocky Mountain was out last week but sent me that quick email late Friday. I’ll try to get her on the tomorrow.
Hi Ari,
I agree that a DIY can be quite complex and expensive for many individuals, and it can result in being a more expensive mistake, so your decision is one I would trust based upon what you know best as to your limitations and tolerance for the “risk” involved of such a project.
I’ll be interested if you learn of anything new with your phone conversation with them or come up with any new decisions.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
I have learned so much here if I stay much longer DIY might not be so far outside the realm of possibility ha ha kidding!
I will let you know how the conversation goes
Thanks so much for all your help!
Hi Ari,
I trust that you are already far more educated about mattresses than you think!
Looking forward to your updates.
Phoenix
3 calls and 2 voicemails and I still didn’t hear from a live human at Rocky Mountain
I got an email early this morn replying to me from The Weeknd asking what the return policy was
"We do not offer a comfort return policy. Our mattresses are made-to-order. We do offer a warranty on all of our products which is listed on our website. "
Also the bed the Brighton I was interested in she mentioned was a 5 on the firmness scale . Which is too soft for me but there is the info In case anyone ever does a search here on that
Hi Ari,
Hopefully someone gets back to you soon. Maybe they are playing catch up from being out last week.
Regarding their returns, their custom orders are non-refundable, but they do offer a 90 Night Satisfaction Guarantee on their standard manufactured models, so you may wish to have them clarify that with you once you’re able to speak with someone (I’ll see if I can find out why there is a delay in them getting back to you).
Phoenix