I finally had a chance to test out a few Latex mattress’s locally in Vancouver; mainly at http://majesticfuton.com/
I realized that I like a very soft mattress so I believe Dunlop might be out of the of the question.
I might end up with a Allegro by Nature’s Embrace from MajesticFuton since it’s local even though it’s more money @ $1250. If you have some info on this model please let me know.
I know that all of the mattress’s listed above are talalay blends; I realized after reading more that all natural talalay might not be worth the extra money + less durability.
Mattresses247 on the other hand describes their products correctly and has a good source so as long as you don’t mind making a purchase using components that are either seconds or comfort returns that the original manufacturer doesn’t choose to use in their own mattresses … then they can be good value. This thread has more information about them including an excellent review with pictures and a search on mattresses247 will bring up more information about them as well. (NOTE: They no longer sell seconds and all their layers are now new)
While Dunlop will feel firmer than Talalay in an equivalent ILD because it has a higher compression modulus and it is also less common to find it in softer versions that are “rated” accurately … there are some versions of Dunlop that are legitimately “soft” so I wouldn’t necessarily exclude them from consideration.
The Allegro is described on the Nature’s Embrace site (made by Renelle in Vancouver) as having 8" of talalay latex which if the size you are quoting is queen (or above) then it would be very good value. I also place a high value on the accuracy of local testing (if it’s done more objectively) and I would place a premium on this over the additional risk of an online purchase in my own “value equation”. Of course if an “apples to apples” comparison shows the premium is too large … then an online purchase would make more sense.
While 100% natural Talalay is a high quality material, as you mentioned, 100% natural Talalay may not be as durable as a blend (at least in lower ILD’s because I believe in higher ILD’s this difference wouldn’t exist) so in the case of Talalay … blended can represent good value for those where a completely natural material is not as significant part of their “value equation”.
A few phone calls to some of the other outlets in the Vancouver area asking if they sell anything similar to what you have tested will likely confirm the value of the Allegro (if it is in queen size) and quite frankly I’m somewhat “pleasantly” surprised that the price is as low as it is for a mattress that includes 8" of Talalay latex (if it is a queen or larger size).
Sorry I should have mentioned the price is for queen size; they have a 25% off sale right now. The exact price after the 25% off is $1109.25; after 12% tax it is $1242.36.
The blend is 30% natural 70% synthetic; does that seem fine for a blend or would it be better to have something closer to 50 50?
I asked for the ILD’s of the layers but they said they don’t give out the information
This is great value for 8" of blended Talalay latex … and as you probably know I also think highly of Renelle who is the manufacturer of these mattresses. At these prices … and assuming that the mattress “fits” you for PPP … I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase it. It’s likely to be the best value in the Greater Vancouver area and is comparable to some of the best value in North America for blended Talalay latex as well.
You can read more about the different types of latex in this article. there are only two manufacturers of blended Talalay latex that are generally available in North America and one (Latex International) generally uses a 30/70 blend of synthetic/natural and the other (Radium) also uses a 30/70 blend (both are approximate). Both are good quality/value materials and roughly comparable. You won’t have any other blended Talalay choices other than this.
In a very “rough” cost comparison (not a value comparison) … Organic 100% natural Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay are roughly equivalent and are the two most costly types of latex. 100% natural Dunlop and blended Talalay are roughly comparable in the middle (and probably the best overall value for most people depending on what is most important to each person) … and then there is a wide range of blended Dunlop that is the lowest cost type of latex and I wouldn’t consider going below a 50/50 blend and would usually only consider this as a cost saving measure not a “quality/value” choice although it is still a higher quality material than other types of foam.
This is not at all unusual because ILD is not an indicator of quality and the combination of softness for pressure relief and firmness for support and alignment can be personally tested for with a local purchase so knowing the ILD is not important and can sometimes encourage people to focus on 'specs" instead of the performance of a mattress. This is also for competitive reasons so that others can’t “duplicate” a mattress that may involve a proprietary layering in terms of ILD. With online purchases … these types of “comfort” specs are more generally available.
At these prices you can’t have everything and I would still consider it to be great value. I personally would sleep on it (if I ended up buying it) before making any changes because a wool protector and your sheets and bedding will also make a difference in ventilation, climate control, and sleeping temperature and you may not need to spend the extra (unless of course it was something you wanted to do anyway). I would stick with the known and test it in real life before making any changes.
Thanks for the info Phoenix; happy to hear that’s there’s actually some value here in Canada! Most things are more expensive here compared to USA.
I’ll wait till I’ve slept on it for a few weeks before deciding on changing the cover or not. I’ll be buying a wool duvet and wool pillow from MajesticFuton when I pick up the mattress. If the mattress sleeps too hot I will go back and purchase a wool mattress pad from them as well.
In the meantime I’ve asked mattresses247 if their cover is 100% cotton or if there’s other materials present; I’ll report back when they respond.
Mattresses247 responded; the only thing he said was that if it was 100% cotton it wouldn’t stretch. My original question asked what the cover was made of. I asked again what other materials are present.
Rayon … like all viscose materials (like bamboo) is neither natural or synthetic but what is called a semi-synthetic or “artificial” fiber. It uses natural raw materials (various types of plant cellulose materials from wood, bamboo, eucalpytus or other cellulosic sources) but they are processed in various ways to turn them into a pulp and then into a fibre that can be made into a fabric.
Do you believe that this mattress topper is 19 ILD and softer than the 22-24 ILD that mattresses247 offers? Ultimate Dreams 3" Talalay Latex Mattress Topper: Amazon.com
Yes … Dreamfoam are members of this site which means that I know them and trust what they say. Of course that doesn’t mean they can’t make mistakes but in this case their listing would be accurate and 19 ILD is softer than 22-24 yes.
This seems like a reasonable option but I would bear in mind that it may feel nothing like the allegro which is also very good value.
2 x 3" = 6" blended talalay = $604
3" topper = $329
Cover = $155
Subtotal = $1088
Cost across the border = Brokerage charges and HST and shipping (if they ship to Canada)
Local purchase of the 8" Allegro = $1242.36 everything included
My normal rule of thumb is that if there is a 20% premium or less for a local purchase of a similar mattress that you have tested and know works for your needs and preferences (and of course this premium is just what I would consider to be worth it and each person may have their own number) then I would go local.
In this case … the premium is probably much less than 20% (they may even end up about the same) and while there is also an inch difference in the amount of latex in each … I would personally be hesitant going in a “cross border” direction … depending on whether they can ship your layers by mail (which usually has a minimal brokerage fee) or need to use UPS (which involves higher customs brokerage charges). There would also be HST as well.
The other thing to consider is that the two 3" layers are seconds and while they seem to be good quality based on feedback … there may be a reason that they are not being used by the original manufacturer in their own mattresses.
I tested the Allegro for the 2nd time and I decided it wasn’t soft enough for me.
New plan:
3" Top Layer: 19ILD soft from Dreamfoam Bedding on Amazon.
3" Middle Layer: 22-24ILD soft or 30-32ILD medium from Mattresses247 on Ebay.
3" Bottom Layer: 30-32 ILD medium or 38-40ILD firm from Mattresses 247 on Ebay.
Based on being a 5’9 145lbs exclusive side sleeper; which above ILD combo do you suggest for someone who wants the softest possible mattress without being so soft that it compromises spinal alignment?
I know this is a tough question but please give it your best shot
Edit: I sent Kopavi a private message asking if he can provide some suggestions since he has purchased a mattress from Mattresses247.
I would tend towards the firmer options in the middle and lower layers because 6" of “soft” or lower in the top 2 layers (24 ILD is considered soft and ILD’s below that are either plush or super plush) would seem to me to be fairly risky in terms of alignment… even with your lower weight. Part of the reason for this is that if you err on the side of firmness … you still have options but it’s much more difficult to “fix” a mattress where the comfort layers are too thick and/or soft. If you want to add a little more softness … then medium in the middle and bottom would be “next least risky”.
If you can find a Pure Latex Bliss dealer near you (they may not have any outlets near where you are and their retail outlet finder on site doesn’t include any Canadian outlets so you may need to email them) … The Beautiful has 6" of soft or lower talalay over a firmer 36 ILD support core so this may give you some idea … although with the different thickness of the mattress it won’t be exactly the same.
Other than that … the “averages” say that you would likely be better off with at least medium in the middle and lower layers.
I think that’s a good idea. It might even turn out that it’s all you need for your weight. Bear in mind too that a thinner mattress will feel firmer because your bottom layer is the floor or foundation (instead of a 3" layer of latex) so that if it ends up being on the firm side then even an extra 3" of “firm” will add some softness. It would certainly be a good starting point and help you decide what would work best for a “final” version.
I literally just purchased the soft from Dreamfoam Bedding and the medium from Mattresses247. My guess is it’ll be about 2 weeks before I have it as I have to go across the border to pick it up from a shipping/receiving company (I live in Canada).
I’ll provide some feedback after I’ve tested it out for a while.
We went with the Soft (we received a 21 ILD manufactured by Radium) Medium and Firm. I am 6’ 2" 175 and my spouse is 5’6" 135. The setup is working well so far through six nights of sleep. However, if you prefer soft you would likely benefit from 3" of 19 ILD or an inch or two of 14 ILD. It has taken some time for my body to adapt to the new mattress. We were camping and sleeping on the ground for many days prior to sleeping on the new setup. My spouse mentioned she might prefer a little softer top and Mattresses 24/7 only goes as low as 21. The topper you found on Amazon is 3" and may work in your quest for softness. It is good to know that you can slice $30 off the price with no cover. You can always add another soft layer from Mattresses 24/7 if necessary.
I will be interested in reading your evaluation and seeing pictures of your new mattress. Congratulations on your purchase. Hope you like it as much as we do!
