I wondered if it had to do with the bankruptcy, but who knows.
I am a bit on the fence about the toppers. I think the two inch will work for this particular instance, better than three - the three inch was so soft and was a bit hard to gauge regarding whether it would it be too much too soft for the daybed - overkill. Then I discovered the cover has spandex in it and I prefer to leave that out of the equation. The 19ILD Talalay is indeed soft! Now I’m wondering if I would be better off with a slightly more dense, such as 21 from PB or 23-28 from AZ.
Which of their toppers is considered to be the “natural botanical latex”, or does that include all of the really soft toppers of theirs?
I’m looking for somewhere online who has a 3" PLB topper in stock, but have been confused over whether the ones with the fast Active Fusion would feel markedly different from the 100% natural one that I was actually able to try a few months ago.
There’s a 3rd party vendor at Amazon who says they have a few of the queen Active Fusion toppers in stock still - or at least, they did yesterday. They were priced at $499, which sounds like a lot more than KTT, until you add in the cost of a cover and shipping, and then the difference isn’t nearly as much as I would have thought. Cover included and free shipping makes a big difference.
Hi Clawdia,
From what I gathered yesterday, as the All Natural are my focus, they are covered in all creme/natural color cotton and are the very soft - the Active Fusion seem a smidge more firm to me. I don’t know if it was the slow or fast response, had the blue panel in the center. I knew I didn’t want it, but gave it a quick test - I preffered the all natural, but I would not say the difference is ‘marked’, however as you are as sensitive as I am, it’s possible to tell the difference.
Hi Sally - thanks for the information. I’d guess I’m as sensitive as you are, however sensitive that might be - serious case of “princess and the pea” syndrome is what I have, I’m afraid. It was an all natural 2" PLB topper I tried months ago, and that’s the one I want in a 3", I’m pretty sure, especially if the Active Fusion one felt a bit firmer to you.
I’m looking for a queen size - and something in the mid-teens ILD, which I think rules out both Plushbeds and mattresses.net, unless I’m missing something. I didn’t see anything that soft when I checked those vendors, though it’s been a little while since I did.
Latex ILD’s are never exact but the difference between 21 and 23 wouldn’t be noticeable but most people would notice a difference between 21 (which would generally be considered to be soft) and 28 (which would be more in a medium range).
Natural or “botanical” latex (same meaning) is latex where the raw materials are the latex “milk” that comes from the rubber tree that is then made into a foam using either the Dunlop or the Talalay method. Synthetic latex is made from a copolymer of Styrene and Butadiene. A blend would use a combination of both in some proportion. Latex International makes blended Talalay and 100% natural Talalay so their 100% natural would also be “botanical” meaning that other than the chemicals and compounds that are used to turn it into a foam … that it only includes the raw latex used to make it that comes from the rubber tree. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.
The active fusion would be very similar to a blended Talalay latex in the same ILD but some people have commented that it feels a little “stiffer”. The 100% natural from LI would be a little less pressure relieving, a little more “supportive” and a little less durable (at least in softer ILD’s) than their blend. Both 100% natural and blended Talalay come in a wide range of firmness levels. They were making toppers with three materials (active fusion fast and slow response, and 100% natural Talalay) but of course they aren’t making the active fusion slow response any longer.
“Stiffer” isn’t what I’m looking for, but then again something that is “less pressure relieving” seems the opposite of what I’m looking for, in that I’m still looking for more pressure relief for these bony hips of mine. Maybe I’d have been better off if I’d gotten a bit more chubby in my old age, and added some built-in padding. :lol:
I figured I would be pretty safe with either of the slightly higher ILD, but agree 28 is going to be noticeable.
Clawdia - I am a Princess & the Pea gal as well. My bony old hips like a body pillow to lean against, a lot of the time - but bottoming out is not acceptable.
The 3" Natural topper is what I would use if I were going to put it on my sleeping surface, but at this time I am trying to hit middle ground on thickness and softness.
I did buy a PLB pillow, the all natural low profile - it was a good find.
It does seem counter-intuitive that something softer would be less pressure relieving - - but that’s why I am considering that 21-26 range with a thinner layer.
(yes, Phoenix, it is referred to as a medium on PB site) It’s going to be softer than the soft Dunlop and less springy.
More info to ‘sleep on’
Something softer is usually more pressure relieving … not less … but there are several factors that contribute to the softness of a material besides just ILD (see post #4 here) which is why ILD comparisons alone can often be misleading.
Which materials did you mean or were you trying to compare?
I went back and re-read that post, my gosh that was thorough! Also read a couple of others. Some of the adjectives used in describing the variances are quite interesting, but once it has been touched and tested I think it makes more sense - until then it does tend to make my head tilt.
The PLB topper that I tried, I was told a 19ILD in Natural Talalay - very soft and I can easily compare it to my 24ILD Dunlop topper, which is a great topper - but more rebound happens and it is firmer, indeed. I know that a 24 Talalay will be a far different experience if simply comparing numbers, but there is always that range to consider.
Two inches will respond differently than three, and I compared those - - yet seem to only have that as reference. A topper with a wool wrap inside the cover is going to respond differently than one that has only a cotton cover, or no cover.
I was just wondering how the Talalay in low twenties would fit int there and if indeed it would be a middle ground. Somewhere along the path I read a reference to the range as being closest to a feeling of the old traditional foam - but I’ve read a lot of ‘stuff’.
I can wrap my head around the intricacies, after some head shaking, but cannot find to test. I’ve managed to do a lot of ‘gulp - jump - open eyes’ along the way, but each go around has individual glitches.
It’s all a big puzzle, we win when we score the final zzzz, but we also expand our brains learning new things.
Thank you for helping the fog brained find rest!
One of the members yesterday made a great analogy about describing smells when they said …
I would take the analogy even a little further and say that the context of a musical note and whether it is part of a chord and what comes before and after it has a lot to do with how it sounds because it doesn’t exist in isolation.
I think the same thing could be said about describing the “feel” of something when you are looking at complex specs or many interacting influences.
Some things can really only be “known” when they are smelled, heard, or felt in person and all the descriptions in the world don’t do them justice or replace the actual sensory experience.
Well, it seems I have hit a snag - - the Talalay pillow that I purchased the other day is making my eyes puff up - waking with huge bags and puffiness
. This bugs me in several ways. I was ocd enough in the beginning to get samples and test my tolerance to the Dunlop and wool prior to buying, this was two years ago. Now I’ve gotten sloppy - spent a hundred on a PLB pillow, natural Talalay - and even though it’s deliciously comfortable - it is apparently destined for elsewhere.
This leaves me back at square one for the topper, and it’s either Dunlop or wool. I found a ILD 18 in natural, or a 20 in organic - - my current Dunlop topper is apparently a 23, but I’m going to call Soaring Heart again and verify. I can only hope that a softer Dunlop would be less likely to push back.
That’s unfortunate. It may be worth airing out for a week or two to see if anything changes.
Just out of curiosity … was your pillow “natural Talalay” (which is blended with synthetic rubber) or “all natural” Talalay (which only uses natural rubber).
I did decide to let it air for a while, then try again - there is no discernible odor, but we know that is not the absolute reveal. With warmer weather it will breathe better, it was presented and stored in a plastic bag - so I should have known better in the first place - to air it out.
It is the All Natural, as pure as can get in Talalay - from PLB does feel good.
Meanwhile, yesterday I headed down to Holy Lamb Organics to luxuriate in the beauty of wool. I made a great haul home. For my daybed I chose the Deep Sleep topper and the Fleece topper, they will compress over time, but I have these items on my bed and no issue on performance. On top of these two is a wool puddle pad and a Cozy Pure mattelasse cover (excellent product that I researched on this site, thanks) and all encased in a heavy duty cover. This is used for sitting and snoozing, lounging and reading - I am happy with the comfort level as well as the purity of contents, quality of products. My achy old bones love the balance of wool over latex support. I think this will be agreeable to guests as well.
They have a line of mattresses that I had not heard of, I tried those out and was highly impressed.
They do still carry the WJ Southard mattresses, they are indeed excellent, and I thought that was all they carried.
However, they now carry another line that comes out of CA. This line has the layering system inside, either two or three layers for 7" or 10". Layers are Dunlop, the cover is channel quilted and the many layers are available to try on the showroom. I don’t know why it isn’t on the website, but they are changing the site. This maker has a nice product that seems very well made, and I will ask again, about the manufacturer - and let you know.
I was impressed, and I also learned a thing or two about those pesky ILD’s when I got my hands on them with numbers.
That would be great … thanksI thought you were referring to the WJ Southard lineup they have on their site and didn’t realize that they had added a new line. Thanks for the update.
