Middle ground needed

We sleep on a configuration of latex mattress, with dunlop topper, which is topped by a wool topper and a fleece topper - no problems with it whatsoever. Extremely comfortable for me and worth every penny. Soft, but I’m not very big and I have multiple issues with all moving parts. I like my cloud.

The confusion is with our daybed - it was my answer to a new sofa. I can peel the layers apart and wash - with pets and grandkids this is cool - and all layers are natural. Thus far it is Dunlop mattress, not bad, but needs a comfort layer to avoid the ‘push back’ on my tender body. For occasional naps and those long movie nights. It does not have to be ‘sleepable’ all the time, no problem with keeping things aside to add for certain times when I need to make a bed. I just want to diminish the ‘push back’ and am uncertain whether the La Noodle will work, or if I should consider a Talalay topper or thicker wool.

They each have pros and cons, as I see it - La Noodle can be shifted around as needed and will disperse pressure better than a slab, but would it be lumpy/bunchy and need rearranging often? I assume it could be done through the mattress cover, to a degree. Talalay topper most likely heavy, but would provide a smoother line - spendy. Wool topper will take impression, but perhaps the thickest version, vs the lighter one that I have would not be quite as prone to indentation - but easy to flip often. I have considered a featherbed which has the distinction of being washable, but it’s not top criteria. The configuration that I sleep on is going to be too high for the setup, not to mention budget control - it’s overkill all the way around.

I am thinking of heading to Seattle Mattress for a testing of a couple of items, but another store carries Bliss while another has wool or Dunlop (those I can play with here at home) = wish there was a place that had everything for comparison.

What are your thoughts on this? as you can see my head is spinning.

Hi SallyS,

All of your choices will really be about personal preferences but I can make a few comments.

With thinner toppers … you will feel more of the properties of the latex underneath and less of the properties of the topper and with thicker toppers you will feel more of the properties of the topper and less of the latex underneath.

The Lanoodles is about 1.5" thick but the thickness isn’t even like a solid latex layer because the lanoodles are spread out. As you know it has “pieces” of latex in it so it would be less resilient than a solid latex layer but it’s quite thin so you will feel more of the latex underneath it. You can see some of my comments about it here and here and it’s somewhat “in between” the feel of a featherbed and a solid latex layer. It’s more about adding some “cush” and a little additional pressure relief. The lanoodles don’t really move around that much when you sleep on them and they can be smoothed out using your hands (not fluffing it up like a featherbed which would shift the lanoodles). If you pick it up and carry it instead of rolling it up when you move it then the lanoodles will shift and bunch up and then they are difficult to even back out again. It would be more difficult to even them out if they were inside a mattress cover than if it was being used as a topper outside the cover. It doesn’t feel at all lumpy or bunchy to me … just soft.

I think it may be well worthwhile trying the PLB toppers because they are the softest latex toppers you will find (mid teens ILD) and would make a good reference point for really soft latex.

If you do go to Seattle Mattress I would also make a point of visiting Bedrooms and More as well because they are close to each other and they have a range of toppers you could try. Seattle Mattress has 19 ILD Talalay toppers in 2" and 3"

A thicker wool topper will most likely be more prone to impressions than a thinner one because there is more wool to compress although it will also tend to even out over time if you spend some time sleeping on the parts that you would normally sleep less on and they “catch up” to the parts you spend more time on.

You are very light and quite sensitive which means that softer toppers would likely be important so my “best advice” would be to spend the time actually testing the options you can before deciding.


It is < It’s more about adding some “cush” and a little additional pressure relief. > since it’s an all purpose daybed/sofa.

SMC has variances within their line, but your reminder to visit Bedrooms and more at the same time is a good one. Yes, I do intend to try the PLB topper as well - tried it initially, but wanted to let the mattress & I get acquainted.

Thank you for the clarifications - as always, extremely helpful.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to try some PLB items, as well as others, at a store that left me so un-enthused.

Apparently PLB is out of all the Natural botanical latex and will not be making anything with it for the next six months, or more. No explanation.

Local store also was heavy into presssing the use of a ‘piece of particle board’ under the mattress on most of their beds, to ‘avoid the slatted feeling’. Latex needs to breathe! This misinformation deflated me, along with the once again promise of ‘we can order’. Not that they didn’t have items to try, but there again was misinformation regarding the ILD and thickness, as well as a couple of other not so good statements. At least I got to try the toppers and looked at other items.

Hi SallyS,

It may be connected to their Chapter 11 proceedings but I don’t now for certain.

Thanks for the rest of your feedback as well. What did you think of the toppers?


I wondered if it had to do with the bankruptcy, but who knows.

I am a bit on the fence about the toppers. I think the two inch will work for this particular instance, better than three - the three inch was so soft and was a bit hard to gauge regarding whether it would it be too much too soft for the daybed - overkill. Then I discovered the cover has spandex in it and I prefer to leave that out of the equation. The 19ILD Talalay is indeed soft! Now I’m wondering if I would be better off with a slightly more dense, such as 21 from PB or 23-28 from AZ.

I wrote that backwards - from AZmattress the ILD is 21 and from Plush Beds it’s 23-28 - - not a big difference, but some.

Which of their toppers is considered to be the “natural botanical latex”, or does that include all of the really soft toppers of theirs?

I’m looking for somewhere online who has a 3" PLB topper in stock, but have been confused over whether the ones with the fast Active Fusion would feel markedly different from the 100% natural one that I was actually able to try a few months ago.

There’s a 3rd party vendor at Amazon who says they have a few of the queen Active Fusion toppers in stock still - or at least, they did yesterday. They were priced at $499, which sounds like a lot more than KTT, until you add in the cost of a cover and shipping, and then the difference isn’t nearly as much as I would have thought. Cover included and free shipping makes a big difference.

Hi Clawdia,
From what I gathered yesterday, as the All Natural are my focus, they are covered in all creme/natural color cotton and are the very soft - the Active Fusion seem a smidge more firm to me. I don’t know if it was the slow or fast response, had the blue panel in the center. I knew I didn’t want it, but gave it a quick test - I preffered the all natural, but I would not say the difference is ‘marked’, however as you are as sensitive as I am, it’s possible to tell the difference.

I don’t know what size you are looking for,

http://themattressexpert.com/pure-latexbliss-toppers/ at the moment all sizes are listed
http://www.plushbeds.com/Natural-Latex-Mattress-Topper.html not the ‘real deal’ but oh so close

Latex Mattresses On Sale - Latex Mattress Toppers - Phoenix, AZ the best I have seen on a three inch topper

Hi Sally - thanks for the information. I’d guess I’m as sensitive as you are, however sensitive that might be - serious case of “princess and the pea” syndrome is what I have, I’m afraid. It was an all natural 2" PLB topper I tried months ago, and that’s the one I want in a 3", I’m pretty sure, especially if the Active Fusion one felt a bit firmer to you.

I’m looking for a queen size - and something in the mid-teens ILD, which I think rules out both Plushbeds and mattresses.net, unless I’m missing something. I didn’t see anything that soft when I checked those vendors, though it’s been a little while since I did.

Hi Clawdia,

Latex ILD’s are never exact but the difference between 21 and 23 wouldn’t be noticeable but most people would notice a difference between 21 (which would generally be considered to be soft) and 28 (which would be more in a medium range).

Natural or “botanical” latex (same meaning) is latex where the raw materials are the latex “milk” that comes from the rubber tree that is then made into a foam using either the Dunlop or the Talalay method. Synthetic latex is made from a copolymer of Styrene and Butadiene. A blend would use a combination of both in some proportion. Latex International makes blended Talalay and 100% natural Talalay so their 100% natural would also be “botanical” meaning that other than the chemicals and compounds that are used to turn it into a foam … that it only includes the raw latex used to make it that comes from the rubber tree. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.

The active fusion would be very similar to a blended Talalay latex in the same ILD but some people have commented that it feels a little “stiffer”. The 100% natural from LI would be a little less pressure relieving, a little more “supportive” and a little less durable (at least in softer ILD’s) than their blend. Both 100% natural and blended Talalay come in a wide range of firmness levels. They were making toppers with three materials (active fusion fast and slow response, and 100% natural Talalay) but of course they aren’t making the active fusion slow response any longer.


Thanks for the clarification, Phoenix.

“Stiffer” isn’t what I’m looking for, but then again something that is “less pressure relieving” seems the opposite of what I’m looking for, in that I’m still looking for more pressure relief for these bony hips of mine. Maybe I’d have been better off if I’d gotten a bit more chubby in my old age, and added some built-in padding. :lol:

Hi Clawdia,

I’m not so sure that it would be worth the “tradeoffs” involved. I think you’re probably better off padding the mattress than your body :slight_smile:


I figured I would be pretty safe with either of the slightly higher ILD, but agree 28 is going to be noticeable.

Clawdia - I am a Princess & the Pea gal as well. My bony old hips like a body pillow to lean against, a lot of the time - but bottoming out is not acceptable.

The 3" Natural topper is what I would use if I were going to put it on my sleeping surface, but at this time I am trying to hit middle ground on thickness and softness.
I did buy a PLB pillow, the all natural low profile - it was a good find.

It does seem counter-intuitive that something softer would be less pressure relieving - - but that’s why I am considering that 21-26 range with a thinner layer.
(yes, Phoenix, it is referred to as a medium on PB site) It’s going to be softer than the soft Dunlop and less springy.
More info to ‘sleep on’:slight_smile:

Hi SallyS,

Something softer is usually more pressure relieving … not less … but there are several factors that contribute to the softness of a material besides just ILD (see post #4 here) which is why ILD comparisons alone can often be misleading.

Which materials did you mean or were you trying to compare?


I went back and re-read that post, my gosh that was thorough! Also read a couple of others. Some of the adjectives used in describing the variances are quite interesting, but once it has been touched and tested I think it makes more sense - until then it does tend to make my head tilt.

The PLB topper that I tried, I was told a 19ILD in Natural Talalay - very soft and I can easily compare it to my 24ILD Dunlop topper, which is a great topper - but more rebound happens and it is firmer, indeed. I know that a 24 Talalay will be a far different experience if simply comparing numbers, but there is always that range to consider.
Two inches will respond differently than three, and I compared those - - yet seem to only have that as reference. A topper with a wool wrap inside the cover is going to respond differently than one that has only a cotton cover, or no cover.
I was just wondering how the Talalay in low twenties would fit int there and if indeed it would be a middle ground. Somewhere along the path I read a reference to the range as being closest to a feeling of the old traditional foam - but I’ve read a lot of ‘stuff’.

I can wrap my head around the intricacies, after some head shaking, but cannot find to test. I’ve managed to do a lot of ‘gulp - jump - open eyes’ along the way, but each go around has individual glitches.
It’s all a big puzzle, we win when we score the final zzzz, but we also expand our brains learning new things.
Thank you for helping the fog brained find rest!

Hi SallyS,

One of the members yesterday made a great analogy about describing smells when they said …

I would take the analogy even a little further and say that the context of a musical note and whether it is part of a chord and what comes before and after it has a lot to do with how it sounds because it doesn’t exist in isolation.

I think the same thing could be said about describing the “feel” of something when you are looking at complex specs or many interacting influences.

Some things can really only be “known” when they are smelled, heard, or felt in person and all the descriptions in the world don’t do them justice or replace the actual sensory experience.


Now this makes sense to me - absolutely - I’m a musician… and a writer, so it all falls into the tune with me.

Well, it seems I have hit a snag - - the Talalay pillow that I purchased the other day is making my eyes puff up - waking with huge bags and puffiness
. This bugs me in several ways. I was ocd enough in the beginning to get samples and test my tolerance to the Dunlop and wool prior to buying, this was two years ago. Now I’ve gotten sloppy - spent a hundred on a PLB pillow, natural Talalay - and even though it’s deliciously comfortable - it is apparently destined for elsewhere.

This leaves me back at square one for the topper, and it’s either Dunlop or wool. I found a ILD 18 in natural, or a 20 in organic - - my current Dunlop topper is apparently a 23, but I’m going to call Soaring Heart again and verify. I can only hope that a softer Dunlop would be less likely to push back.