More frustrated and confused.

For the past six months I have been shopping for latex mattresses. Because I wanted to try one in a store, and not risk buying online without trying it first, I went to my local dealer who carried both SavvyRest and Natura.

I immediately LOVED the Natura, but after not being able to find many online reviews–or much other information about the company for that matter–I went with the Savvy Rest. Thought not as comfortable as the Natura, I just felt it was a “safer” decision. My old innerspring is causing horrible sciatica, and I toss and turn constantly when on it. I’ve been sleeping (very well) on my nice foam and leather couch for the past two weeks, as I cannot stand the innerspring any longer.)

Today I purhcase (what I thought was) a mattress and platform queen set. The total bill came to about $3400–$500 cheaper than the Natura, so I thought I had made a good decision. On my receipt it says “Queen Mattress SET” and listed the layers I had chosen. Well, after I got home, I had a voice mail from the dealer saying he “forgot” to charge me for the platform, so the receipt really wasn’t for a “set” and that would be an addition $500. (His misktake, which he admitted.)

So…that brings the Savvy Rest to the same price as the Natura. I distinctly remember in discussions with the store owner on a previous visit that he said any queen Savvy Rest would be about $500 cheaper than the Natura. Apparently, he was mistaken in that, too.

After months of research, reading this forum (thanks, BTW, this is a great forum! :)), and comparing many retailers, I was finally satisfied in my decision. Now I am so disgusted that I am thinking of completely abandoning the whole latex thing and going with a Jamison foam mattress, which is about 50% less than the SR or Natura. (I slept on one at a Marriott awhile back and loved it.)

HOWEVER, Before I make (another) “final” decision, I have some questions:

(1) What is your impression of the quality of Natura mattresses? I haven’t found hardly any reviews online. Do they sag? Are they worth the price? What, exactly, are they made of? (I also had a hard time finding any info about that, too.)

(2) What is the track record for SavvyRest? So many of the comments in online sites I read sound as if they are paid endorsements. On the other hand, I have read that SRs sag badly after six months or so. (But, who knows who did those reviews. It’s so hard to trust the integrity and validity of online reviews.) My Savvy Rest combo, by the way, was Medium Dunlop/Medium Talalay/Soft Talalay. I’m 50 years old, 5’6, weigh 120, have back trouble, and like a soft yet supportive mattress. No firm/hard-as-a-rock stuff for me. I even thought the combo I bought was too firm in the store, so I went out and purchased a nice wool topper on the way home from the SR store. I realize, though, that it is not good to get a mattress that is too soft, so that’s why I sort of “gave in” on the harder-than-I-wanted SR instead of the Natura and bought the topper. Still, if the price were what was originally quoted, I would be happy. But, as I said, if I am going to spend THAT much anyway, I may as well go with the Natura which was more comfy. Still nearly $4000 for a mattress is getting a bit up there. No longer sure if it is worth it. I’m just really confused at this point.)

(3) Do you have any info on the off-gassing for Jamison mattresses? The whole reason I went with latex (which, to me, is not as comfy as a polyfoam mattress) is because of the fear of chemical retardants and off-gassing. I have read some online reviews where people also say the Jamison mattresses offgas slightly, and are also not consistent; one guy said he bought one for his bedroom and one for the guest bedroom–both of the same firmness–and the one was too hard and the other sagged within a year. Other reviewers said the mattress they ordered was NOTHING like the mattress they tried in the hotel – despite the one customer giving the exact serial number of the hotel bed he slept on when making his order with Jamison. (Again: I have no idea if those reviews are valid or not.)

As you can imagine, now I am so confused, deflated, and frustrated I don’t know what to do. I am starting to think this is all just a big con game and, if that’s the case, I may as well go with the Jamison–which is half the price of the latex. Still, if offgassing and chemicals are an issue with Jamison, I don’t want to put my health in danger, either. Then, of course, there is the issue of not being able to try a Jamison matress. (I live in an area where there are no retailers/distributors. I have been told even by the folks at Jamison that testing a mattress at a Marriott property is not a good test, because most hotel mattress are quite worn and at least a year old.)

I really, REALLY want to get this right. If the Jamison off-gasses, then I will have to bite the bullet and go with one of the high-priced latex mattresses. Which leaves me with the dilemma of which one of the two I have chosen.

I guess my final question that I need answered is this: Is the off-gassing issue real for non-“S” mattresses. I know just from going into a store and smelling the fumes from the Sertas, Simmons and Sealys that they offgas. But does that dissipate and become a non-health issue after a few weeks in something less “commericalized” like the Jamison? How does one find out just HOW much a particular mattress may offgas.

Sorry for all the questions (and whining. LOL!)


Dazed and confused in the Midwest.

I don’t know your status with this currently, but

If you have paid money, and have a receipt, you may have a sufficiently binding contract to hold them to their price. You’d need to see if there is any fine print allowing the retailer to cancel the order and how/when they are permitted to do so. If there are no such terms, the seller cannot unilaterally change the terms of the contract, including because they made a mistake (unless as I said they have some fine print that permits them to back out of a deal by issuing a complete refund).

A full refund and having the contract terminated may be in your best interest if you’ve now changed your mind and don’t feel comfortable doing business with that company (although you may or may not have the right to cancel, especially if they agree to provide the mattress set at the price paid).

If you purchased through visa or MasterCard, a complaint to them may also stimulate the retailer to remember this basic fact. Having ones merchant account pulled for attempting to sell 1 thing and deliver a different may impact their business. “Hi visa, I have paid with my credit card, but this store did not deliver what they wrote on my receipt that I paid for… Can you help” (note visa might just force a refund anyhow, so there’s no guarantee it actually solved your bed problem).

If you hold them to it contractually, mind you, you might be in for a world of horrible crappy service if needed. Stated another way, while it may be possible you could hold them to it, depending on their company, it could mean you will not be welcome as a customer there again.

Personally, I’d make them split the difference with me or find some middle-ground compromise, especially if warranty or service from them after the sale were important to me.

Hi ShopperGirl,

Outside of dn’s great advice … I’ll make some comments based on the assumption that you both want to cancel your purchase (which I would consider carefully before you do so) and are able to do so and start all over again.

A mattress is only as good as its construction and materials and the brand name of a mattress means very little to me. It would depend on the quality of the materials that were inside the specific Natura mattress you were considering. In most cases … Natura uses good quality materials (often latex in many of their mattresses). Mattress reviews aren’t nearly as useful in evaluating the durability of a mattress as knowing the specifics of what is inside it (see post #13 here)

SavvyRest is certainly a reputable company, uses good quality materials, is transparent about their materials, and provides good service to their customers … but the quality and value of any mattress depends on the specifics of the design and materials that are inside it and how they compare to other mattresses you are considering. This is the most important part of evaluating a mattress … not the manufacturer.

S/M/F would be a fairly “standard” layering for most people of your height and weight but each person is unique and only your own experience can really know what type of layering is best for you. A wool topper may have some of the “feel” of softness that you like but it may also firm up the softer latex in your mattress a little in terms of pressure relief (see the comments in post #2 here which would apply to wool toppers as well). I would agree that $4000 for a mattress is “getting up there” and there would be no “need” to spend this much when there are mattresses that use the same or similar materials available for less unless your personal circumstances or preferences or the specifics of the purchase gave you a compelling reason to do so. Of course “value” is very subjective and individual and I would make some careful value comparisons based on all the parts of your personal value equation that were most important to you to make sure that you were comfortable that the purchase was the “best value” for you (and that you believed it would still be “worth it” 10 years down the road as well).

The latex in Jamison mattresses would be OekoTex certified just like most of the latex that was sold in North America and any polyfoam or memory foam in their mattress would be made in North America (and likely CertiPur certified) so by most people’s standards offgassing wouldn’t be an issue unless there were particular health or sensitivity issues that your answer to the question of “how safe is safe enough for me?” is different and more restrictive than the norm.

Again … comfort is so subjective and most consumers know so little about what is in their mattress that I tend to pay little attention to reviews about the “comfort” of a mattress or reviews that don’t mention the specific materials in the mattress they purchased. Most people for example have had the experience of testing a mattress in the morning and then going back and testing it later in the day after testing different mattresses and being surprised at how different it felt because their reference points have changed.

Hotel mattress will usually have bedding packages that are a significant part of how they feel and perform. You can read more about hotel mattresses in post #3 here and the other posts it links to. All new mattresses will also feel different from a mattress that has already been broken in.

If you follow the steps in the basic guidelines post here one by one you will generally be fine and be able to make the best possible choices. Once you have the basic knowledge of the different materials … who you deal with can be one of the most important parts of a successful purchase. Finding the “experts” can help you avoid the need to become one yourself because they already know what you would otherwise need to learn (which is usually the reason people get overwhelmed).

All materials offgas … even fruits and vegetables … but the real issue is the safety of the VOC’s not the smell or the fact that there is some offgassing with all materials. For the most part the amount of offgassing with North American produced foams or materials that are CertiPur certified or OekoTex certified are well within the safety margins that most people would be comfortable with unless they had specific sensitivities, tolerance, or health issues or specific beliefs, priorities, or preferences that lead to different choices than the majority of people would make. You can read more about the very complex issues that are connected to offgassing, fire retardants, safety, and natural vs synthetic materials and other related issues that can help you answer the question of “how safe is safe enough for me?” in post #2 here and the many posts and sources of information it links to. For most people though … this would be the beginning of a rabbit hole that can lead to more and more complex and often conflicting information the more they research and in the end there may still be no clear answers that are specific enough for them. For most people… basic foam certifications and information about the fire retardants used in their mattress if this is an issue for them would be fine and they don’t need to devote many days and weeks (or longer) of research into ever more finely detailed and complex information only to find that the clear and specific answers they are looking for don’t exist to the level of certainty they were hoping for anyway.

In most cases any offgassing is diminished to a level that is below most people’s threshold within a few days to a few weeks if the mattress they buy is using North American or certified materials but of course there are always exceptions (which can sometimes seem larger than life in an online environment).

Hope this helps … and outside of the “read first” information if you let me know the city or zip code where you live I’d be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area. All of this of course is assuming that you both want to cancel your purchase and that it’s possible as well since the mattress you purchased is certainly high quality and with its component construction also has some good options for fine tuning after your purchase as well.


Thank you, dn, for your helpful and speedy reply. :slight_smile: I am not sure I want to cancel; I was just a little shell-shocked at the price jump. Plus, a few weeks earlier he gave me a business card when I was in his store, and last night I dug that out and looked at it, and the price of a “Queen set” that he quoted me then was about $100 less than what I paid yesterday for what I thought was a queen set.

I did check the contract, and the only stipulation is that they don’t accept returns or cancellations on items that have been removed from their original packaging, which isn’t a problem becaue he hasn’t ordered the products yet. I called this morning before work and left a voice mail for him,letting him know I will call him later today after his store is open.

I don’t really know if I want to cancel or not; I’ve put so much time and energy into this that I am just thinking of biting the bullet if he insists and paying the extra. I’ll know more after I talk with him this afternoon.

Thanks so much again for your help!

Hello, Phoenix.

Thanks for your detailed and quick response!

"… but the real issue is the safety of the VOC’s not the smell or the fact that there is some offgassing with all materials. "

Yes, I agree. The issue of cancer-causing flame retardants in mattresses is what led me to look at latex in the first place. Latex is definitely not as comy for me as foam, but I also don’t want to be exposed to the chemicals, and I don’t trust the government’s “safe” delcarations for any level of chemicals.

I live in the Chicago area, and have tried many other mattresses --Verlo, Steinhafels, etc.–and none had mattresses that did not contain any chemical fire retardants. SavvyRest claims they have none becaue of the cover. But, after reading some info on this site , I am beginning to wonder if they all don’t contain at least some chemcials. Although it seems to me that the Strobel site also has a bit of an agenda to incite a some fear to make a sale. But, that could just be my journalistic sketicism coming in to play.

I hope you didn’t misread my earlier post; I have not made any decisions yet about cancelling the contract or not. I was just a bit shell-shocked at the new price, and the prices that seem to change often. (See my reply to dn.) At this point, because I have put so much time and effort into this, I am halfway tempted to just buy the thing. I still think it’s ridiculous to pay $4000 for a matress and box, though.

I just noticed your comment about the concern you have about flame retardants used in mattresses. I share that concern, and for that reason was thrilled when I ran across a Phoenix-approved ( :wink: ) seller in my area who sells mattresses with absolutely no flame retardants. Buying one did require a doctor’s prescription, but that qualified the mattress as both tax exempt and tax deductible, since it put it in the category of durable medical equipment (savings on tax were nearly $100).

The mattress I bought was a 9" (6" core of soft Dunlop and a 3" comfort layer of softer Dunlop) - for $1800, I feel as though I’ve gone to heaven without having to die to get there every time I crawl into that bed. I’ve had it a couple of weeks now and am just as pleased as I was the first night, if not more so.

I have auto-immune issues, which contributed to me wanting to get away from the fire retardant chemicals, but after doing some research it’s hard for me to believe they are good for anyone, regardless of their medical condition.

Hope you can get your problems resolved. Considering I was able to find what for me is a “perfect” mattress for so much less than you’re paying, I’m tempted to say you’re being over-charged - but each mattress is different and every person is different, and it may be that you’d not be happy with a sub-$2000 mattress.

Hello, Clawdia! Thanks so much for your response!

I agree that many of the flame retardant chemicals have the potential to have some negative health side effects down the road. I am so happy you found a mattress that is comfortable for you and that has no chemicals!

The issue I have is that the options in the Midwest (Chicago area) are extremely limited for latex retail outlets. Because most online companies only deliver to the curb, and because I live alone, there is NO WAY I could lug the box (platform) up two stories to my bedroom. (I could definitely do the mattress components, but not the box.) Also, I really want to go into a store and try one out so I know exactly what I am getting before I order one. If I want natural latex and want it delivered AND SET UP in Chicago, then I am limited to litearlly one store!

Right now, I’m not sure which would make me sicker: the chemicals in a polyfoam mattress or paying nearly $4000 for a mattress. LOL!

I’d use it as a negotiating tactic with them…you want a compromise you’re both comfortable with. They know they made a mistake, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to split the cost so it’s only $250 to you. I don’t know how much you enjoy negotiating (I enjoy it, I find it entertaining…others hate it), but if you’ve spent months and months on this, I’d guess that you’ve selected everything just the way you like it. Or maybe you ask for free in home setup or something (if it’d normally be extra).

As for the flame retardants, Phoenix will know better, but several of the mattresses meet the requirement, usually using wool quilted into the mattress cover. I don’t know if the one you ordered does or not. Or, as Clawdia wrote, with a doctors prescription apparently you can completely bypass/excuse the requirement where you find a mattress builder who can/will honour it.

To add-on to the Flame retardant conversation… The Mattress I choose (Aloe Alexis from Brooklyn Bedding) has a 1.5 inch wool layer for breath-ability and Flame retardant too. If I’m not mistaken, this is the only product added for that so it’s completely natural and chemical free. Besides, My Queen size AA was only $1399 less the “Mattress Underground” discount ($69) and two free shredded Latex Pillows. I don’t think the product I bought was the only high Quality bargain but to sum it up: I’m happy, sleeping well and stayed far away from a $4000 mattress without consequences.

Hi ShopperGirl - I hear you, loud and clear! Any chance you could buy the platform from someone local who would deliver and set up, and then buy the mattress from a separate source? I’m like you - not real sure which of those two alternatives you listed would make me feel sicker!

I hope you can figure out a solution that works for you - that period of time in between deciding you need a new bed, and actually getting one you want, can seem to stretch on forever.

Hi, dn!

Actually, I DO enjoy negotiating! It’s like a game to me!

I will definitely see what we can work out on our call later this afternoon. Yes, I have spent months and months to finally arrive at a mattress, but I always did feel in my gut that there must be an equally viable option that wouldn’t break the bank.

The mattress I purchased does indeed have the wool barrier, and they say there are no chemicals either in the product or used in the manufacturing of the product. So, I should be good to go on that front anyway.

Clawdia, I was actually just thinking of that option this morning! If I do that, I would have to take a leap of faith if I decide to opt-out of the contract and purchase online. THat whole process (buying a mattress online without testing it first) is scary to me.

Hi, Jefmoody.

LOL! Yes, I, too, would likely sleep much better if I don’t have to dole out that much dough. But, I was prepared to pay the original quoted price for mattress + foundation, but the added $500 is really pushing me over the edge. :wink:

Hi ShopperGirl,

Some of the information on the Strobel site is very misleading and inaccurate. Burning a single loose strand of knitting wool has absolutely nothing to do with its successful use as a fire retardant material and I have no idea why they put such obviously misleading information on the site. You can see a few more comments about them and some other fire retardant “urban myths” in post #2 here.

If you live in the Chicago Area it may also be worth asking Quality Sleep / My Green Mattress (who are members here and make some great quality/value mattresses) if they can make you a mattress without any fire retardants with a prescription if that is important to you although using either wool or inherent viscose/silica to pass the fire regulations would have no toxicity or chemical issues that I’m aware of.

Chemicals used to pass the fire regulations are also a separate issue from any VOC’s that come from the materials used in the mattress itself. For those that aren’t comfortable with the CertiPur certification used for polyfoam and memory foam then innersprings, natural fibers, and latex may all make good choices.


Hello again, Phoenix!

Thanks for the info.

I have no issues with using wool as a flame retardant; I don’t need a prescription non-chemical mattress.

Many months ago when I first began my mattress shopping I did visit the store you suggested, and did find a mattress I like. The issue I had is that the store was filled with bugs/spiders and I have a severe mold allergy which also was triggered badly when I was in that store. (Nothing against the owners; it is a very old building and there is really nothing that can be done.) Still, because of my mold allergy, I did not want to buy the mattress there, for fear that some mold spores may end up on it, as they make their mattresses on site. I did bring my concern to the attention of the sales lady, who agreed with me, but we both realized there wasn’t much that could be done. Maybe the situation has changed, as I have not been in the store for several months.

First, let me say this community is AWESOME! I so very much appreciate all the responses, suggestions, offers of assistance and ideas! you guys rock!

Second, I wanted to provide an update: I spoke with the owner of the mattress store, and not only did he agree to honor the contract at the price he quoted, but the contract also includes free shipping. So, this is definitely a store that honors its committments and helps the customer. It makes me so glad that I purchased from a locally-owned business, too. I am not saying that online-only businesses don’t provide great customer service; I know most do. But when you can deal with someone in your own community, I think both parties have more of a vested interest in working things out.

Again: thanks to all for your comments and suggestions!

I’m glad to hear you arrived at a good solution for you.

I also wanted to deal with someone who was local; fortunately, that was possible, and not only was my purchase tax free/tax deductible, but they also provided free delivery, set up, and subsequent exchange of a comfort layer that was a bit defective - all within about a week of the original purchase. They’re located 60 miles away, and I was impressed with that service!

I was much more comfortable with all that than I would have been with an online purchase of something I hadn’t been able to try, and it didn’t escape my attention that Phoenix seems more than happy to spread the word about good mattress people regardless of whether they are formal members of the site. It’s not that I don’t buy far too much online, but I was happy to buy locally this time.

Thanks, Clawdia.

I am just glad I don’t have to start this whole bed-shopping ordeal all over again! :woohoo:

I tend to buy a lot online, too, but it’s mostly stuff I can’t get locally. And, as you said, with something like a bed, I really want to try before I buy to (hopefully) get the right one the first time. I loathe the hassle of exchanges and returns.

Now for the fun bedding shopping: Getting a new quilt! I saw a cute white-with-turquoise-seashells one that I’ve had my eye on for some time. Now that I know for sure which bed I am getting, I’m ready to replace my old tattered, shredding, “holey” old one. :slight_smile:

LOL - the bedding really is part of the fun! I’m shopping for a mattress protector and sheets. :slight_smile:

Hi ShopperGirl,

I’m glad that you were able to resolve the issue … and congratulations on your new mattress. You certainly made a good quality choice :slight_smile: