My 9" Mattresses247 bed and Journey into Latex

Oohhh … so you are saying the body impressions would be forming in the Quilted top of the mattress zipper cover (about 1/2 of an inch thick) and ALSO in the mattress protector which is a quilted imitation down cover (about an inch thick). That would make sense and I had read that from you before.

But the firm middle and the soften main sleeping zones … that would not be the natural fibers but rather the Latex Breaking In? Correct? So the 2 things - the Firm Middle and the Body Impressions - which seem to be related - are actually from 2 different causes? One being Latex break-in AND the other from natural/synthetic fiber compression.

Hi MrM1,

I didn’t know about your mattress protector (which sounds more like a mattress pad than a mattress protector) but the impressions would be coming from both of these yes.

Your mattress will change how it feels over the course of the first few weeks yes as any foam inside loses any of its “false firmness”, the cover loses some of its initial stiffness, and any fibers compress and settle and become a little firmer. In some cases the “feel” of the mattress will change just because your body is adjusting and learning to relax on a new sleeping surface and still has a muscle memory of old sleeping positions and more relaxed muscles, ligaments, and tendons can sink into foam more than tight muscles that are keeping the body more rigid which can also make a mattress “feel” softer.

Phoenix

Hi MrM1, I like what you did with the addition of the beefier ‘slats’. The original ones use a design similar to many others and if I recall correctly are usually some sort of beech wood, bowed with the intention of flexing (adding some additional ‘cush’). Unless you had someone looking beneath the bed at the foundation while you’re laying on it, it may be hard to tell how the frame is flexing. In addition to the arched slats themselves (since they were in 3 segments with metal lengthwise supports under ‘his’ and ‘hers’), that metal may have also been flexing some. Those thicker slats you added should reduce almost any of that going on and make for a more stable platform.

Also as you mentioned, it’s a good idea when connecting multiple fasteners to ‘start’ them all first, then go back and tighten them. That approach works well with almost any assembly. You’d be surprised how many times lining up fasteners and holes will cause poor alignment for the last fastener even if it appears square.

I’m not sure which legs it is exactly you need to brace, the centers? If they were bending from ‘scooting’ or pulling the bed sideways, such as from his to her sides to say move the bed closer to an end table - then I would brace side to side across the bed underneath. I notice there’s multiple legs in the centers. A way to do it might be to use pieces of 2x4 on edge cut to length to fit between the legs. Since there are 4 feet in the middle you’d need 3 pieces of 2x4.

Using something like a pipe grip tie to attach the 2x4 to the metal legs. One end is curved to fit the pipe with a clamping action and leaves 2 flanges with screw holes to attach to the wood. Similar to a connector used to affix pipe up against a wall. Those flanges can be bent over 90 degrees to ‘face’ each other and would lay over the 2x4 allowing you to screw into the 2x4’s face instead of the end grain (stronger connection). They make different sizes, you’d just need to find ones that were a close fit to your bed legs.

Usually home depot and lowes have them, they’re around a couple dollars each. Since the middle of the bed would require 3, you may have to offset the 2x4 bracing something like ||—|| (looking at it from the foot of the bed underneath). Maybe lift the bed up enough to slip the collar of the grip ties over the feet of the legs, or take out the clamp bolt and spread it open wide enough to slip around the bed leg.

I don’t know what sort of tools you have on hand, if you didn’t have a saw you can take the measurements with you and have h.d. or lowes cut the 2x4 to the lengths you need for maybe $.50 a cut or so. Cheaper than buying a saw if you don’t have one. It may not be the prettiest approach, but I think it’d be sturdy, inexpensive and would still allow freedom to store things under the bed. The only space you’d lose is directly between the 4 center feet. This could be done between the feet at the head and foot of the bed too if you wanted. It would depend on how much bracing you need. I’m going to try and attach a pic of the grip tie I’m referring to, hopefully I succeed. Hope this helps.

Great Idea … Thanks.

The legs seem to be bending only from lifting the bed, not sliding it. I also “installed” some Self Adhesive Carpet Sliders Under each leg. So now it is easy to move and / or slide the bed around to make the bed, etc.

The frame actually has 8 legs. 1 on each corner and 4 across the middle. So the 2 middle metal support bars actually have their own leg in the center. So they probably will not bend or flex. I am thinking I need a brace between the 4 middle legs and that part you listed may work well. I will look into it.

Hi MrM1, thanks - that pic you posted is what I was trying to describe, that made it a lot clearer. Not sure you need the braces in terms of the bed frame not being strong enough. It would ultimately depend on where you notice the weak spots or directions where it seems like it needs to be more stable for your own peace of mind. Usually 2x4x8 studs run under $3 and would be plenty to span that distance cut to fit between the 4 center legs like your diagram shows. Those fasteners I posted a pic of are around $2/ea or under, so that would be maybe $12 total. Even if the store had to do the cuts for you and charged a nominal fee, I think you’d still be at under $20. Those carpet sliders will also help a lot.

[quote]

Yes … a break in and adjustment period is typical for any mattress (see post #2 here). You would also probably notice some small impressions with any natural fiber material and you would also likely also notice some unevenness across the surface if your foundation doesn’t have a flat and rigid surface because the latex will adapt to the contours of the surface.

Phoenix[/quote]
Not trying to be contrary, but the more I looked at the bed with the comforter on, and seeing the larger body impression where I lay, the smaller where the wife lays … I decided to check the idea that the natural fibers had started to compress. With nothing on the bed but the mattress protector/pad there was definitely an impression, especially where I lay. I took off the protector and rotated it 180*. This should have caused the impression to switch sides. It did not.

Next I took off the protector and inspected the mattress cover. The impression was more pronounced on my side. Is it the cover? Well i unzipped the cover and looked across the surface of the Soft Latex 3" comfort layer. I could still see Impression - Ridge - Impression. With the deeper impression on my side.

I then pulled off the comfort layer, flipped my half of the core to firm side up / Medium side down. Wife’s side was still firm side down / Medium side up. I then rotated the comfort layer (not flipped) 180*. Surely this would cause the larger impression to now be situated on my side. But it did not. ??? :blink:

What is going on? I know the foundation is now very firm and level. It was re-designed 2 days ago with 1x4 slats spaced 2"s part. I am wondering if this “low spot” on my side is due to the Core? This is the only thing I have not switched. I have rotated and flipped the cores, but never switched them - Hers on his side and His or her side.

Will see how it sleeps tonight for me with the firm side of the core now facing up and the Medium layer being on the bottom. Still woke up with Center back spine pain. This have been going on for the past 6 nites.

I think the best way to check would be by pulling a string across the top of the layers. I would probably take the mattress off the the frame and lay it on the flattest surface possible (preferably a hard wood floor) and pull the string across one layer of foam at a time and utilize a process of elimination. Normally they check impressions from side to side but i don’t think it matters as long as the string is over the area with the impression. The string will need to be pulled taught this should give you a good idea if and what is failing.

I read the thread and realize you got jammed up with that frame… but IMO it still looks like your weakest link. I’m sure Phoenix can get into a bit more detail. I pretty sure when i created my thread he corrected when i thought most of the weight would be in the middle of the bed by saying that most of the weight would be carried by the edges. I did have a foundation on top of my frame, but still the way you only have legs on the corners leaves me to believe that the side tubes could be possibly sagging or flexing. Just my 2 cents … i am by no means an expert. But you have a very well written post and i wish you luck with your mattress and frame and i hope you work this out … but at least others are benefiting.

Actually there are 8 legs. 1 on each corner = 4. And 4 across the middle = 1 on each side (2) + 1 on each of the 2 center cross member supports.

Thus I feel that while the Foundation HAD a week link in it’s 3 equally spaced flexing slat zones, it is now a firm foundation and actually quite sturdy and level.

But I think the next time I take it apart I will follow your lead and check each layer / section independently on a flat level floor with a string. If it turns out that that there is an impression, would this qualify as a manufacture defect? (I doubt it :unsure: )

Hi MrM1,

While it’s unlikely … it’s always possible to have a defective latex layer … I would add a “ditto” to TandL’s comments about testing whether your layers are defective or have impressed. They would each need to be placed on a flat surface like the floor and then checked for impressions with a straight edge or a string across the surface.

If one of your layers is defective then you would be able to replace it within 30 days under their exchange policy.

Phoenix

So I am guessing I need to test this pretty quickly and then find out what constitutes defective.

Hi MrM1,

Defective is normally defined by the manufacturer’s warranty and for most “regular” mattresses would be about 1.5" of sag and for most non quilted latex mattresses would be about .75" (latex mattresses with quilting would be more because the quilting will compress and this wouldn’t be a defect).

Some manufacturers that sell component layers will often use 1/4" - 1/2" per layer as their definition of “defective”.

In your case though there isn’t an actual manufacturer or warranty because you purchased individual layers not a mattress so you would only be covered by the 30 day return policy.

The chance that your layers are defective would be low but if it turns out that one of them is then I would talk to Val about replacing it.

Phoenix

That is what I am thinking too - not going to find a problem … but I probably wanna check and make sure.

On a bright note, I know I made changes to the layers too early (only after 7 days), but nite 8 of sleep was perfect. On my side I moved the firm layer up into the center layer - creating a stack from Bottom to Top of Medium / Firm / Soft - and this worked well for me.

I thought maybe when I purchased the mattress that I would probably buy a topper too … that is why I only bought a 9" unit, so I could add 2 inches or so on top and still not be too tall. So time will tell if I want the topper or not, but as of now, things are feeling and looking pretty great :smiley:

Hi MrM1,

That’s great to hear!

Phoenix

MrM1 I appreciate your timely and informative thread as I have been considering purchasing the same bed from the same company. How did this turn out for you? Were you able to resolve your concerns within the time frame allowed?

In general I agree with what the owner said about warranties not being worth the paper they’re printed on, but having only 30 days to get everything right seems awfully tight if it turns out that an exchange is necessary. Just wondered if you would do it again based on your experience.

Hi CosmicHam,

Just for the sake of clarification … as far as I’m aware Mattresses 24/7 doesn’t have an exchange policy … they just allow returns within 30 days (with the buyer paying return shipping).

Phoenix

Thanks I understood that to be the case. Returning something within 30 days and buying something else from the same company is the same as an “exchange” in my mind.

My main concern is whether he felt 30 days was enough time to work out any contingencies. He mentioned a problem with impressions in the mattress. Seems to me like it could easily take more than 30 days to figure out if something like that was really a defect or not.

I’ve noticed that some companies actually require you to keep your mattress at least 30 days before returning it. I guess they figure it takes that long to get used to it and develop a realistic view of whether it works for you. If that’s true, then in this case your return privilege runs out right about the time that you finally have a good understanding of what you bought. If you guessed wrong, it’s too late.

I think his opinion of that would be valuable information to those of us who are considering this company.

Hi CosmicHam,

That’s certainly true but the difference with a “standard” exchange policy (outside of shipping costs) would be that the new layer is shipped first so that you have the additional layer to “play with” in different combinations before deciding which one to send back. Of course you could accomplish the same thing by just buying a new layer and then returning one of them after you had tried various combinations.

I just wanted to clarify things so that there was no misunderstanding with other members that may read this thinking there was an actual exchange policy.

While defects in a latex layer are relatively rare … they will generally show up in the first year or so but they may not show up in the first 30 days.

Hopefully MrM1 will share his thoughts as well.

Phoenix

My apologies to both of you … For some reason I either was not getting instant email notifications … Or thought at a glance the ones I did get were for another thread.

Both of u are correct in regards to Mattresses247. They do only have a 30 day return policy, you do NOT. Have to sleep on the bed for 30 days (or any number of days) before it is honored. BUT you do have to return your problem and pay shipping first, then they will send out a replacement and you are charged shipping back to u of he new piece. But even with that they will work with you … Read on.

30 days … BUT … And this is a generous BUT … I contacted them about what i was perceiving as a problem with the comfort layer on the 28th day. AND they have been working with me ever since. Nothing has been shipped either way … But i was in correspondence with Valerie just today, and after much discussion of what i am experiencing, if i’ll send it back, they will send a replacement of my choosing for the cost of shipping both ways. But i would be out a comfort layer in the process … BUT …

The only part that kinda rubs me was on the 28th day i got the response “Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The soft layer will be replaced. I’ll notify you when the new layer has been shipped.” Which actually blew me away, had no idea it would be that easy.

A few days later it was “I’ll have my warehouse manager call you to discuss just what is the exact problem”. This actually sounded more along the lines to what i would have thought would be best case senereo.

Now today, after much discussion and offering to pay the full price for the replacement THEN return the old piece the answer and the solution is “I’m going to invoice you thru paypal for the layer and shipping separately…since the shipping won’t be refundable once the original layer comes back.
We Will refund the price of the new layer before the evening is over.”

So i would say the people at Mattresses247 are amazing, very generous and and willing to do whatever it takes to see that you are pleased with your purchase.

Any Idea what the shipping cost would be for a 3" cal king layer?

Hi MrM1,

Thanks for sharing your comments and feedback … I appreciate it.

I don’t know what the actual shipping costs would be but there are some suggestions here that can help you vacuum pack the layer so that the shipping costs would be less.

Phoenix

Here are My Thoughts … Now 56 Days Out From Delivery

First let me again give a shout out to Mattresses247. These folks have been great to work with (see post above)

I have waited to give this update until I got some kind of resolution on the perceived “issues” I was having with the bed. Mattreses247 is willing to do whatever will keep me happy … But i need some feed back before i proceed.

So lets talk seams … Regardless of what you read or are told by a salesman, especially if you are a “Princess and the Pea” type personality (and admittedly I am) … You WILL FEEL A GLUED SEAM in the comfort layer of a cal king bed.

If you purchase a cal king (and i would guess a king too) and it is not split into 2 parts at each layer … In other words the comfort layer is 1 continuous piece … If purchased from Mattressses247 There will be a glue seam off center of the bed. I was told talalay latex is not manufactured in a cal king width so it has to be glue seam constructed. If i recall my discussion with Mattresses247 correctly, they take 2 extra long/large twins and cut off enough from one of them to make the width a cal king. Then using the pieces cut off, they use those pieces to add the 4" of extra length to make a cal king … Gluing all the pieces together. So u will have 2 seams. One offset/ off center down the middle and One 4 inches off the bottom or top depending on your rotation.

I have no idea if this is true, but it has been my experience. The way Mattresses247 explained it to me, when they glue a seam, the glue used will seep in about 2 inches or so either side of the seam and that this is part of the bonding of seam for talalay latex. I did do tests of just the 3" soft glued comfort layer laid out in my living room floor. Taking an 8 pound dumb bell, a 4 foot level and measuring tape, when I placed the dumbbell where we each sleep … The dumbbell sunk in exactly 1/2 of an inch more where our bodies lay than it did on the seam. AND this was consistent from top to bottom along the seam so it does not appear to be just brake in. The seam IS MORE FIRM…!!! There will be a 4-5" patch down the off center of the bed that is (for me) noticeably more firm. It gives me the sensation of laying on a small hump in the off center middle of the bed.

I do not think this is a fault of mattresses247 … Just the nature of seamed latex … But i could be wrong.

Here is where I need help and suggestions. I am visibly seeing body impressions where we lay when the bed is assembled… These are not getting any worse over the past 20 days and noticed them in the first week we had the bed. But I CANNOT visibly see the body impressions when the comfort layer is laid out in the floor by itself. Yet the seam is verifiably more firm when laid on the floor. Oddly all the other pieces are level and consistent by themselves. I have tried various rotations with the comfort layer … And the “Rise” is the seam. It switches sides of the bed when i rotate (the seam is off center)

Here’s the problem … when i lay across the bed at a 45* angle, with part of me on one side and sinking in … and the lower part of my legs on the other side not sinking in as much, the seam intersects my legs just between my hips and my knees when laying on my side … And everything from the knees down kinda floats just above the layer not sinking in because of the firmness of the seam. When laying on my side … This causes knee pain.

I had no idea the seam would be that detectable.

So long story short, do u think a plush 2" 15 ILD topper layer would solve the seam sensation (i am assuming a cal king topper will also have an off-center seam) . But if i situate the seams of the comfort layer and new 2" topper so that they oppose each other (not in the same place) will the sensation of the seam effectively “Disappear” ???

Obviously if I opt to have Mattresses247 send me a replacement with no seam, but rather 2 replaced comfort layers unglued down the middle … This would solve the problem as there would be no glued seam.

BUT what does it cost to ship such a replacement to me as I would be paying shipping? I would guess my cost would be the same or similar back to Arizona from Florida. Shipping both ways may actually be close to the cost of a 2" plush topper … If that would solve the problem.

So what do you think?

Other wise … Love the bed. A little more firm than i would like if I rotate the core medium side down on the bottom, firm side in the middle and comfort layer on top. And too soft of a core if i set it up from bottom to top firm, medium, soft. That is why I am thinking 2" plush 15 ILD topper. Might cause the seam in the soft comfort layer to disappear and give me the upper softness with out the core being to soft in a bottom to top Medium, Firm, Soft mattress configuration.

Quick … Give me your thoughts. I need to make a decision soon on which way to proceed …

  1. Either Replace the seamed soft 19 ILD comfort layer with 2 unseamed pieces… And pay shipping both coming of the new and returning my old

Or

  1. Purchase a 2" 15 ILD seamed topper and keep my existing soft comfort layer saving shipping cost sending it back . I can get the topper for around $225.

What makes most sense.???