There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.
The Obasan uses 12" of 100% natural Dunlop latex with an organic cotton cover quilted with organic wool (they don’t mention the amount of wool on the Obasan site) so it uses all high quality and durable materials and there would be no weak links in the mattress. The middle 4" layer can also be customized in terms of firmness and zoning so this would also be a factor in the value of the mattress. They don’t say on the site but it seems that the latex is 100% natural but not certified organic. EDIT: Looking at the Soma site they do say that they use 900 grams of wool and assuming that this would be 900g/meter then this would be the equivalent of 26.5 oz/yd.
The Dormio Stratus has 11" of 100% natural Dunlop latex and also has a cotton cover quilted with wool (29 oz/yd) so in terms of the “commodity value” of the mattress it would be very similar. Their 100% natural Dunlop is also certified organic. It can also be customized for firmness on each side but not for zoning.
In terms of the quality of the latex they would both be equivalent to each other in terms of quality, durability, and performance although the organic certification would add to the cost of the Dormio layers (even though it is less costly overall). There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about organic Dunlop latex in post #6 here.
The name of the manufacturer would make no difference in the “value” of a mattress because outside of PPP … a mattress is only as good as it’s construction and the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label.
You can see my comments about individually wrapped layers in post #2 here. Dormio is correct and while it’s not likely that the layers would shift in either mattress … latex is very “sticky” and if anything a fabric wrapping would make them more likely to shift not less.
I believe that SleepTex uses Latex Green as their latex supplier and they are used by many other manufacturers as well but 100% natural latex made by different reputable latex manufacturers would be very closely equivalent regardless of the manufacturer. Outside of the organic certification with the Dormio latex which for some people would add to the value of their latex vs the same type and blend of latex that isn’t certified (although it would make no difference in terms of the quality, durability, or performance of the latex) … they both use high quality materials that would be closely comparable to each other and one wouldn’t be “better” than the other.
So the bottom line is that in terms of the “commodity value” of each mattress the only real differences would be the additional inch of latex in the Obasan, any differences in the cover, the organic certification for the latex in the Stratus, and any small additional cost for the individual wrapping in the Obasan. These differences by themselves certainly wouldn’t be enough to justify the significantly higher cost of the Obasan.
Having said that … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and only you can decide whether any difference in terms of PPP, the additional customization options of the Obasan and any differences between the return or exchange policies at each store and the options you have after a purchase to further customize each mattress, or any other differences between them that are part of your personal value equation that are important to you would be “enough” to justify the significant difference in price since the type, amount, and quality of the materials in both of them would be very similar.
Just an FYI, Sleeptek (Obasan) now uses organic certified latex by GOLS.
Personally I think the quality of the covers as well as having the individual pieces wrapped makes building/taking a part a mattress a lot easier not to mention much less dusting off because the layers are actually protected.
If you like the Obasan better, go back to Soma and tell them what they are up against. Pricing may generally be fixed but sometimes context changes everything. But really the Obasan is a superior product to the ones Dormio recommends which are made by SnugSleep in Vancouver.
Thanks for clarifying that they are now using certified organic latex.
I would agree with this and I think that this along with consumer perception would really be the only reason to cover them. The other benefits that are often claimed are questionable at best IMO.
Outside of the greater options to customize the zoning of the mattress and the other differences that have been mentioned … are there other reasons that you believe they are a superior product?
I decided to go with the Dormio mattress…in the end after my partner did a rest test on them we actually found his alignment was better on the Dormio Regal. It was not on sale but John adjusted the price to equal the savings from the Stratus that I had been trying earlier. I also just really preferred the feel of the Dormio mattress and you can’t ignore that. John at Dormio was so patient. I came 4 times to try mattress and once only because I just happen to drive by. Never any pressure just information and time to let me try each bed. He was great at answering all my questions, many of which they must hear everyday. He also focused on my needs which were longevity and comfort while still providing information about the organic status and latex sourcing.
Obasan has some very sleek marketing and SOMA is very knowledgeable but I have to say that the quality of the mattresses at Dormio are very comparable and I just could not come up with how to justify the nearly $1600 price difference. Soma also threw in a little bit of fear mongering about latex sourcing of its competitors that not only confused me but also was in the end a little bit of a turn off.
I am eagerly awaiting my Dormio mattress and I am also looking forward to the long life I can expect out of a latex mattress.
Phoenix thanks for all the help…your services and time are appreciated. This is a huge investment for me, one I wanted to make but without sites like this I would have been lost.
I think you did some good research and made some meaningful and relevant comparisons to reach a final choice that was the best for you … and congratulations on your new mattress
Organic latex is a high quality material and the different versions made by different manufacturers (such as CoCo latex, Latex Green, Arpico, and Eco-Latex) are all very closely comparable in terms of their quality so I would tend to agree with your comments here.
I’m looking forward to your feedback once you receive your mattress and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Similar to the poster, i narrowed it down to Dormio Classic 6 or 8 inch vs Sleeptek 6 or 8 inch. The couple of differences were that Dormio does not add wool for the classic mattresses whereas sleeptek does. Second, Dormio does not wrap the individual latex layers (the way Sleeptek does). I went to Soma then Dormio and Dormio gave me a good deal (i think) of $6000 for 2 kings and 2 queens of the 8 inch. When i asked about the warranty, john the owner said it was all on the website and they DO NOT PROVIDE A WARRANTY CARD!!! Does that sound okay? Makes me very nervous. Further, in the invoice he does not break down by king or queen. He has it as 2 kings for 3000x2 and 2 queens for 0x2.
I am thinking about calling and cancelling the order i placed yesterday evening. What do you think??
I called to cancel. John refused to cancel the order and says all sales are final in his store despite the fact that I placed the order last evening- they only offer store credit!!!
Dormio is one of the members of this site which means that I think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, transparency, and knowledge.
They send a hard copy of the warranty with their mattresses but as John mentioned … their warranty is listed on their website here and all you would need to do is print it out if for some reason it’s not with the mattress (or if you need an extra copy) and this certainly wouldn’t be a concern to me,
I would also keep in mind that the warranty of a mattress has very little to do with the useful life of a mattress and how long it may be before you need to replace it. Warranties only cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or often rapid in the case of lower quality materials) loss of comfort and support that is the main reason people will need to replace their mattress. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here.
I talked with John this morning and my understanding is that the specific mattresses you purchased are listed on the invoice and they listed it the way they did because you received a package deal with a discount so there wasn’t a specific individual price for each mattress and it was just listed in a way that the invoice added up to the total for the package deal you received. I’m not sure why this would be a concern either but if you aren’t happy with the way the invoice is listed I would call them and I imagine they could itemize it differently.
There is also some good information about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
It sounds to me like you made a good quality/value purchase for a package deal with a discount and I personally wouldn’t have any concerns with either of the issues you mentioned but if you do have any concerns for any reason then of course I would talk to John at Dormio about them.
I placed an order yesterday evening. Before paying we asked about the cancellation policy and were told we cannot get a refund once the delivery was made for sanitary reasons. Then after paying, John produces an invoice that says “all sales are final”. That is misrepresentation in my books. Do you condone this practice?
Re the warranty, a warranty card has to be a part of the purchase and cannot just be downloaded and printed. Warranties change over time and the one applicable at the time needs to be stamped and provided.John said a warranty card will NOT come with the mattress.
Re the itemization, my husband spoke to him and he has offered to refund 2 king mattresses only but that we have to take the queens. Now does the reason things should be itemized make sense? Of course he can now break up price as needed.
I wasn’t part of the transaction so I don’t have personal knowledge of what was said by each person so it’s not possible for me to make any meaningful comments about a transaction or conversation that I wasn’t part of and that I know nothing about until I have heard both sides of “the story”.
What I can tell you is that I consider Dormio to be an ethical and knowledgeable business and I would also suggest that making sure you are comfortable with any exchange or return policy before a making and paying for a purchase is always a good idea.
In my experience misunderstandings can sometimes happen very easily where sometimes people “translate” what was said in ways that are different from what was meant and in cases like this I would strongly suggest that you talk with them directly to resolve any issues that you may have.
This is an example of the type of misunderstanding that I meant. When I talked with him he told me that a copy of the warranty usually comes with the mattress and if for some reason it wasn’t included that they would provide you with a copy (or you could print it from their website). My comments about this are in my last reply. He would have no reason to tell me one thing and you another so I’m assuming that there is some type of miscommunication involved here,
I get the sense that there is more to this story than meets the eye because it’s very unusual that someone does some good research and decides to buy 4 mattresses as a package deal and then changes their mind the next morning for reasons that appear to be relatively unimportant but regardless of what may be happening here I would suggest that you talk with them directly to clear up any misunderstandings between you,
You were not there yes but I am reporting as a consumer that the cancellation policy was explained like in my last post and that the actual invoice with the wording of “ALL SALES FINAL” was printed after payment.
I am also reporting that the merchant said there would be no warranty card and that the warranty should be printed from the website.
I am also reporting that the merchant failed to itemize the purchase which can be used to your disadvantage.now or down the line. (Invoice was provided after payment- see above)
I am also reporting that the merchant has a ALL SALES ARE FINAL policy. Even 30 seconds after purchase.
There is nothing more to the story than meets the eye. Is it difficult to imagine that a customer feels uncomfortable with a merchant and asks for a cancellation? Of course the company can retract the above but to me these are RED FLAGS
It’s very common in the industry that stores have an “all sales final” policy which generally means that there are no refunds after a purchase although some businesses will make exceptions if the order hasn’t yet been finalized with their suppliers. Beyond this I have no way of knowing what was said on either side and it would be pointless for me to engage in a “he said she said” type of reply.
[quote]I am also reporting that the merchant said there would be no warranty card and that the warranty should be printed from the website.
I am also reporting that the merchant failed to itemize the purchase which can be used to your disadvantage.now or down the line. (Invoice was provided after payment- see above)[/quote]
I’ve already shared my thoughts about both of these so I don’t know what else I can add.
I understand that you appear to have changed your mind about your purchase and while I still believe that there is more to the story than meets the eye (or at least there is another side to the story) … if you truly believe that you have been wronged or that you have a legitimate issue that you are unable to resolve directly with Dormio then you can always dispute the charges on your credit card or call the Ontario Consumer Protection Agency and ask them for some advice or guidance. ADMIN NOTE: Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/Documents/275071.pdf
I was not looking for a further response…just that I would like to share my experience so others are warned. If this is settled amicably, i will update my post.
Yes, i am pursuing both a conversation with the company and other channels.
I reply to every post in the forum (or at least almost every post) with an eye to helping other members learn from other people’s experiences and my perspective includes the basic premise that manufacturers, retailers, and consumers are all “equal partners” in any transaction. One of my main goals is to help people replace hindsight with foresight by making sure that they are comfortable with all aspects of a purchase and all the parts of their personal value equation that are important to them (including any return or exchange policies) before actually pulling the trigger so that they can avoid these types of issues after a purchase when they can become much more difficult to resolve.
In any case … I hope that you are able to come to a reasonable resolution that both of you are satisfied with.
I’m the owner of Dormio Organic Beds and I wanted to reply on the forum and clear up some of the background behind what has been posted in this topic, because i don’t beleive that what has been posted is a completely fair representation of what actually happened.
V**** & R**** came to our Toronto store on monday evening and ended up purchasing 2 queen and 2 king mattresses as a package deal at a signficant discount. The prices were for the package deal as a whole and the price for each separate mattress wasn’t individually listed because it was never calculated on a per mattress basis. The way it was itemized was just a convinience so that the total came out to the total for the complete purchase in our bookkeeing system.
I kept the store open until 7:00 PM (we normally close at 6:00 PM) and I also cancelled an appointment to look after them because of the urgency of the situation. They had told me that they were sleeping on the floor and they were expecting an aunt to visit on the weekend so I wanted to do everything that I could to make special arrangements for them that I beleive would help them with their situation. I made a call to our warehouse manager, who was already home for the day, to check stock on the 2 queen mattresses they ordered. They were in stock but needed some customization in their layering which i told them to go ahead with. V**** and R**** were not going to be home to take delivery on our next scheduled deliver date, so i aloso made special arrangements with our driver to deliver one evening this week. Our driver was also called at home to see if this was possible. All of this was arranged after hours.
The 2 King mattreses were also ordered that same night as i was driving home from the store after their visit because the factory is in Vancouver and the time difference allowed me to call and have them start to build them right away so they could be included on a shipment that was leaving the next day. These mattresses also needed some addtinal customization. All this was done to try to get V**** and R**** and family and their visiting aunt off the floor and sleeping on proper beds by the time she arrived. R**** called to hold the order the next day and didn’t reach me and then sent an email sayig" we have decided we do not want to proceed" but at this point everything was already in motion from the night before and the customized orders had already been placed because of the urgency of their situation and to ensure that their mattresses would be delivered on time.
This was not a straight forward cancel the order and " we decided we do not want to proceed" type of situation because the orders had already been placed with the warehouse and the factory in order to meet the tight schedule and to help with an urgent situation. If it had only involved cancelling an order that hadn’t been processed yet of course we would have provided a refund without question.
In spite of the fact that this was actually a refund of a custom order that was already on process and not a cancellation, in the interest of wanting to resolve an unfortunate situation and issue a full refund anyway. We also incurred $100.00 in credit card charges in order to process the full refund which we also didn’t deduct from their refund.
These types of situation can be difficult to resolve because they involve exceptions to a policy that they were aware of and a custom order that already been placed with the warehouse and the factory. I still don’t completely understand the reasons behind the refund request when they seemed very happy with the service they received and the mattresses they purchased at a significant discount but hopefully this will help explain some of the background behind the events that are described in the topic.
We have spent many years deleloping a great reputation for service and integrity and earning the trust that our customers have given us over the years and it’s always unfourtunate when an unusual situation such as this leads to an unhappy customer and negative feed back. I hope by providing a full refund and incurring all the costs involved that V**** and R**** will be able to truthfully tell others that we provided them with the kind of service that we are known for and that at the end of the day we treated them more fairly.
I also hope that they are able to purchase replacement mattresses that they are happy with and have them delivered before their aunt arrives
Thanks for taking the time to post your comments on the forum and fill in some of the “rest of the story” from a different perspective.
It’s also good to hear that you ended up going well “above and beyond” your normal policies in order to solve a difficult situation (both when they first came to visit you and after their purchase as well). I also hope that aarvee also returns to post in this topic as well to acknowledge that you really did go out of your way to provide some great service and then were willing to solve a difficult and somewhat confusing issue in a way that was completely to their benefit as well.
My boyfriend and I have been to a handful of stores (recommended by you) around the city, and here is what happened:
Ideal Mattress - We went to Ideal twice. It seems to be a small family business, which I like, but the lady did not seem to want to directly answer our questions in regards to materials. In fact, she said there is no such thing as completely natural latex. (?) However, she was quite nice and helpful, and switched up layers for us until we were very comfortable. The price she quoted us was $2800 King size. We got a print out of all the details and the price written on it.
We ended up checking out some other stores, where none of the mattresses felt as good as the first one, and were way more expensive, and went back to Ideal a month later, only to learn that it was not all latex. Rather, a foam core with a latex topper. We were then quoted $3500 minimum for it. We were kind of disappointed about this switch up, but I guess it’s a good thing we didn’t rush and buy it a month ago.
Soma - I don’t remember if Soma is on your list, but we went there to check it out, and kind of, sort of liked one mattress, which was a mix of pocket coil and organic latex. Quoted $4299, boxspring included. They were nice, but the mattress didn’t blow us away.
Dormio - We went to Dormio a couple of times. I know they are a member of this site and recommended. We received good service there from Lance, who was knowledgeable and extremely patient. We’re actually feeling pretty good about the price we were quoted for the Landon mattress, but they charge what seems to me to be a pretty high price for the box spring ($650 down from $800). Custom here takes 3-5 weeks. ;/
So, finally we went to Dreamtime Bedding Inc. They make their own mattresses - mostly coil. We tried a pocket coil mattress that felt quite nice - firm on my side and a little softer for my boyfriend. When I asked about the other materials in the mattress, things got a little shifty. When I asked about the foam, he said it’s just foam. They also have some kind of a gel layer, the material of which he couldn’t really explain to me either. Here’s the thing. Price here, including boxspring was just over $1000, and they could have it ready by the end of the week, and we didn’t even try to negotiate.
I’m hoping to get some advice from you before we make a purchase. Here is what it comes down to:
Obviously, the one at Dreamtime doesn’t have all organic, top of the line materials. However, the feel was pretty comparable to the Landon at Dormio. The price is obviously very tempting. Do you think the low price means the mattress will suck after some time? Is it justifiable to spend $3000 more for a mattress b/c it’s organic latex?
Like I said, I liked many things about Dormio. But I’m thinking of looking elsewhere for a box spring. Lance justified the boxspring price with the fact that it’s also organic and stuff, which to be honest I don’t care about.
Curious to hear your thoughts on this.
[quote]Ideal Mattress - We went to Ideal twice. It seems to be a small family business, which I like, but the lady did not seem to want to directly answer our questions in regards to materials. In fact, she said there is no such thing as completely natural latex. (?) However, she was quite nice and helpful, and switched up layers for us until we were very comfortable. The price she quoted us was $2800 King size. We got a print out of all the details and the price written on it.
We ended up checking out some other stores, where none of the mattresses felt as good as the first one, and were way more expensive, and went back to Ideal a month later, only to learn that it was not all latex. Rather, a foam core with a latex topper. We were then quoted $3500 minimum for it. We were kind of disappointed about this switch up, but I guess it’s a good thing we didn’t rush and buy it a month ago.[/quote]
By convention 100% natural generally means that 100% of the rubber in the latex core is natural rubber (NR) vs synthetic rubber (SBR) but it doesn’t mean that 100% of the core itself is rubber because there are other substances that are needed to foam, cure, and manufacture the latex (see the first part of post #7 here) so they are “partly right” or at least “technically right” that there is no such thing as 100% natural latex although there is certainly latex that only uses 100% natural rubber and doesn’t have any synthetic rubber in the formulation.
Your experience with the polyfoam/latex hybrid and the all latex mattress certainly points to the importance of finding out all the information listed here for any mattress you are considering before making a purchase so you can make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress and make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses although a latex/polyfoam mattress can be a good quality/value purchase as well (if the polyfoam is a suitable quality/density).
While it won’t show the specifics of the layering or the other information that you need to make an informed choice or to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress … the law tag will also show the different types of materials in a mattress (listed by percentage weight) so you can quickly find out if a mattress you are looking at contains any polyfoam.
They are included as an option and you can see my comments about them in the Toronto list here.
You can also put a latex mattress on another lower cost foundation (as long as it meets the manufacturers warranty criteria) or on a slatted platform bed so it’s not necessary to purchase a foundation from the retailer you are buying your mattress from if you have a better or lower cost option available although their foundations here are certainly very strong and would make high quality choices.
[quote]So, finally we went to Dreamtime Bedding Inc. They make their own mattresses - mostly coil. We tried a pocket coil mattress that felt quite nice - firm on my side and a little softer for my boyfriend. When I asked about the other materials in the mattress, things got a little shifty. When I asked about the foam, he said it’s just foam. They also have some kind of a gel layer, the material of which he couldn’t really explain to me either. Here’s the thing. Price here, including boxspring was just over $1000, and they could have it ready by the end of the week, and we didn’t even try to negotiate.
I’m hoping to get some advice from you before we make a purchase. Here is what it comes down to:
Obviously, the one at Dreamtime doesn’t have all organic, top of the line materials. However, the feel was pretty comparable to the Landon at Dormio. The price is obviously very tempting. Do you think the low price means the mattress will suck after some time? Is it justifiable to spend $3000 more for a mattress b/c it’s organic latex?[/quote]
I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here (which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice) but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for when you sleep on it in “real life” and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
Outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) … the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability (which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress) and the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that a retailer or manufacturer you are considering is willing and able to provide you with the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would affect the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
If you can provide all the information listed in the article I linked and post it on the forum I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials inside any mattress you are considering but without this information it’s not possible to make any meaningful comments about any mattress and if a manufacturer or retailer isn’t willing and able to provide it I would pass the mattress by because it would be a very risky choice (see the guidelines here).
There is more about certified organic latex and other types and blends of latex in post #6 here. There is also more about the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and about organic and safety certifications in general in post #2 here for those where an organic certification is important for personal, environmental, or lifestyle reasons (although the organic certification won’t affect the safety, quality, or durability of the latex).
I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of whether anyone else has the same criteria or would make the same choice.
