Narrowing Them Down: SleepNation vs Denver Mattress Company vs FoamSource

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

I have choices narrowed down after doing some research and visiting a few retail stores:

Denver Mattress Aspen:

SleepNation Larimer or Blake:

mysleepnation.com/Mattresses/Silver-Pocket-Coil-/Larimer-St-Pillow-Top.aspx

mysleepnation.com/Mattresses/Silver-Pocket-Coil-/Blake-St-Super-Pillow-Top.aspx
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I’ve been using a Denver Matress top end king double sided pillowtop for over 10 years, it’s been great but ready to be retired. I think it’s the Monarch deluxe, anyways it’s an old model. It’s medium-soft, I’m a side/stomach sleeper. 6’ 190-200 lbs. I’m not a big fan of slow rebounding foams like Tempurpedic uses. The Aspen might end up being too soft and they don’t have a firmer version where SleepNation has firmer versions.

I like all Latex but the price seems too high, questionable value over a good innerspring as well, imo…

Any comments on quality/value?

EDIT: I visited FoamSource in Boulder too, they are well worth checking out. I’ll make some comments below.

2

Hi DaveC,

There is more information about the 3 most important parts of “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

Outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) … the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the type and quality of all the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label so I would always make sure that you are able to find out the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components in a mattress to the quality/durability guidelines here so you can confirm that there are no lower quality materials or obvious weak links in a mattress that would compromise the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

[quote]Denver Mattress Aspen:

You can see some comments about the Denver Mattress Aspen in post #2 here and in post #9 here. While I can’t speak to whether any mattress would be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP, if you are in more average weight ranges then there would be no lower quality materials or weak links in this mattress that would be a cause for concern but if you are in higher weight ranges then I would be cautious with this mattress because of the 1" of “unknown density” polyfoam in combination with the 1.5" of convoluted 1.8 lb polyfoam which will be less durable than a solid layer of the same material and because of the overall softness of the mattress.

[quote]SleepNation Larimer or Blake:

mysleepnation.com/Mattresses/Silver-...r-St-Pillow-Top.aspx

mysleepnation.com/Mattresses/Silver-...uper-Pillow-Top.aspx[/quote]
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Unfortunately their website descriptions don’t include the specifics of all the layers and components in either of these mattresses that I would need to make any meaningful comments about them in terms of the quality/durability of the materials and the mattresses “as a whole” or identify whether there would be any potential weak links in these mattresses. If you can provide the information listed in this article (including the type, thickness, and density of any the polyfoam layers and the thickness of the latex layer) then I’d be happy to let you know whether I can see any obvious weak links in either of them.

[quote]I like all Latex but the price seems too high, questionable value over a good innerspring as well, imo…

Any comments on quality/value? [/quote]

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines I linked earlier in this reply … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article).

Some of the most knowledgeable people I know in the industry that could sleep on anything they wish to sleep on innerspring/latex hybrids (often a pocket coil) but of course others sleep on all latex or memory foam mattresses and when you are looking at high quality materials it really is a preference choice. There is also more about innerspring support cores vs latex support cores in post #28 here and in post #2 here and some innerspring/latex hybrid sources that may be worth considering in post #2 here.

In theory a latex support core would tend to be more durable than an innerspring but in practice the difference is probably much less meaningful because the the deeper support layers or components in a mattress aren’t generally the weakest link in a mattress and assuming that either one would be a suitable choice in terms of PPP … once you are past about 10 years or so then the person on the mattress and the changes in their body and preferences can be the limiting factor in the useful life of a mattress as much or in some cases more than the mattress itself (although of course both types can last longer than 10 years for many people).

Phoenix

3

Cool, thanks!

I think the Aspen might be too soft, I’ll have to stop by the store and check it out again… If it isn’t too soft it looks like it might be a good choice.

I’ll be going to SleepNation on Friday, they are a 45 min drive but it looks like it’s worth it.

There’s also Verlo and FoamSource in the immediate area but not sure if they are brands worth considering… I don’t think I want all-foam unless it’s all latex, and that’s $3k+ which is more than I’d like to spend. DMC and SN seem like they have better reviews overall as well, though to be fair DMC seems like a love/hate thing, not many reviews in the middle. My current DMC bed is really nice, just worn out…

Verlo is tempting to visit just because they still sell double sided beds, I think my current bed has lasted a lot longer because I flip it once a year or so… not sure the move to single sided was so good of an idea…

4

Hi DaveC,

Foam Source has a range of all latex mattresses that are all significantly less than $3000 (and some are also less than the mattresses you are already considering) so they would certainly be worth a visit IMO if you are interested in testing a wide range of latex mattresses to see how they compare to the mattresses you are already looking at.

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would also be very cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range) and reviews in general certainly won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

Two sided mattresses can certainly be more durable than a similar one sided mattress but there are also advantages to some one sided designs as well and they can also be a very durable choice if they use very high quality and durable materials such as latex. There is more about the pros and cons of one sided and two sided mattresses in post #3 here.

Phoenix

5

Ok, I’ll check out FoamSource too, although the only one that seems appealing is the 10" all natural model as I like it a bit on the soft side. But it might be worth it as the ILD of the layers can be customized…

https://www.foamsource.com/shop/Latex-Mattress/natural-latex-mattress/natural-talalay-latex-mattress-10

6

Another interesting option might be the 8", which has the core and a single top layer instead of the 10" version two top layers, than I can add either another 2"-3" of latex or wool via a topper… This might be a good option as it would be easy to adjust the topper. Still an expensive option though. I’ll have to try it out and see if I think it’s worth the extra vs an innerspring.

7

Hi DaveC,

[quote]the only one that seems appealing is the 10" all natural model as I like it a bit on the soft side. But it might be worth it as the ILD of the layers can be customized…

Another interesting option might be the 8", which has the core and a single top layer instead of the 10" version two top layers, than I can add either another 2"-3" of latex or wool via a topper… This might be a good option as it would be easy to adjust the topper.[/quote]

The only reliable way to know which of their mattresses or layering combinations would be the best “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience but they do have several firmness options for each of the layers and they also have a 60 day comfort exchange so you can also change the firmness of your mattress after a purchase if your sleeping experience indicates that you would either need or prefer it.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding. You certainly have some good options available to you.

Phoenix

8

I also visited FoamSource in Boulder and while I didn’t purchase a bed there they are well worth visiting and I probably would have bought there if I had more cash. They have a large assortment of foam beds from synthetic dunlop to all natural talalay. The talalay beds come in 6, 8 or 10" and you can customize the layering. Unfortunately, the only one I really liked was the 10" organic which is around $3k for just the mattress. This is actually a good price for what you get, 10" of all natural talalay latex foam and an organic cover.

In doing research I was also considering a wool topper for various reasons, I tried one out at FoamSource and greatly prefer it to being directly on top of the latex, it also puts a layer of material between you and the mattress protector which seems like a good idea too. This brings me to…

SleepNation… these guys make mattresses in their Denver factory and offer innerspring as well as foam. Their pure latex beds are $4k but are about 12", so more foam vs FoamSource and about the same value. They can also customize the layering but stick to a few preset combinations so people don’t get overloaded with too many choices.

I asked about wool toppers at SleepNation and they had one that is handmade in Boulder out of the nicest wool and organic cotton cover I’d seen thus far. The wool is less packed and acts more like a comfort layer than the other wool toppers I have seen, it’s really in a whole new league. The manager, Steve, said he was hesitant because the price is much higher than others but after using it for a while he thought it’s the best investment in bedding he’s made. The owners and most people working at SleepNation use them, and he said customer satisfaction is excellent. He also said there are no issues with the wool packing down or clumping up at all. After trying several mattresses I was interested in with and without the topper I was sold, this topper is simply amazing.

On the mattresses, I tried various foam and innersping beds and ended up with a Larimer St firm, which is an innerspring “hybrid” with a good bit of talalay latex in the comfort layers and individually pocked springs. It feels a bit more lively than similar beds made entirely of foam, but the difference was fairly subtle and both worked well, to me it’s just a personal preference thing, but the big difference is price, the innerspring ended up being $1600 while comparable foam beds were more expensive, some much more expensive.

I actually liked the plush Larimer a bit more than the firm but I’m 6’ 200 lbs and it’s questionable if a plush would work out, especially longer term… since I’m a side sleeper (mostly) what I really need was the comfort layer of the plush with the support of the firm, the wool topper provided for this and made for an amazing bed, so that’s what I went with… Larimer Firm + Boulder Wool Topper.

The big surprise was the wool topper was $1k in king size! Steve didn’t tell me the price until I tried it out and by that time I had already decided I loved it. With holiday specials I got $200 off the topper, $100 off the mattress and got a free Sleep Tite mattress protector made with Tencel fibers bonded to a waterproof/breathable membrane, this was a $200 retail protector. I also got a pair of Z sleep pillows which I thought were amazing… they go for $159 each but I got them for $99 each as part of the deal. Delivery was included for free as well. I also spent $200 on new platforms that match the mattress, I got low profile ones and plan on buying or building a wood frame same day… Finally, I got a 24 month zero interest financing promotion as well.

So that was yesterday… they usually build to order but they keep a small stock of the most popular mattresses ready to go and they had a king size Larimer in stock and they delivered it this morning. The topper and pillows will be drop shipped to me from the manufacturer.

I did think Denver Mattress was pretty good but they didn’t have a firm version of the Aspen, and the Dr’s Choice Elite at $1600 did not equal the SleepNation Larimer which was the same price for a mattress that uses better materials.

Interestingly enough, Steve at Sleepnation said he’s been selling beds for 16 years and his opinion of the major manufacturers and choices available today was almost exactly the same as Phoenix’s info on this site.,

9

Hi DaveC,

It’s great to see that you did some good research and ended up making some great choices.

Most importantly … congratulations on your new mattress and wool topper :slight_smile:

I’m guessing that your topper is probably made by Suite Sleep in Boulder and if that’s the case they certainly do make some great quality products. I also think highly of Angela the owner as well.

I have had several conversations with Sean (the owner of Sleep Nation) and they are certainly knowledgeable about mattresses and mattress materials and as you mentioned their thoughts about the industry are very much in line with the information here.

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received everything and have had a chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

10

Umm, wow… that topper is $699 on the Suite Sleep site and SleepNation is selling it for $999 with a $200 “discount”. I think I need to call and ask for a further “discount”.

11

Hi DAveC,

I’m not sure which topper you purchased (I was just guessing since Suite Sleep is based in Boulder, CO) but the price you quoted is for their 1 1/2" topper and their listed price for their 3" topper is $879.

Phoenix

12

I called and they said it was a Suite Sleep topper and the manager will talk with Sean, the owner, about pricing… When I called I didn’t accuse them of anything, just said I’d rather not pay more than the manufacturer is charging on their site. I’ll let you know how this goes…

Lol, in this day of instant internet information it’s pretty hard to conceal stuff like this…

13

Hi DaveC,

I’m looking forward to finding out what they say.

Phoenix

14

Ok, it’s settled. They gave me the same price as Suite Sleep’s website.

I can understand not wanting to promote Suite Sleep since some of the mattresses are close to the same as Sleep Nation, but imo they should be on the same page as the manufacturer as far as pricing.

Also, the $199 mattress protector I got is actually $139 retail but can be purchased on Amazon for $37 or so. The $199 model uses a Tencel blend, which I did not get. Since I’m using a topper it doesn’t matter in terms of feel, but I was told the cover used Tencel when in fact the model they give you does not.

On the Z pillows they were honest about retail price ($159), but my price was $99 and the lowest I found online was $69. Like the major mattress companies, it seems retail price is imaginary and actual price is ALWAYS much less than retail.

I’m happy with what I got but unsure about Sleep Nation’s honesty on pricing. To be fair I did get 24 month zero interest financing which is probably a pretty hefty fee for the retailer and often local brick and mortar stores do have to charge more than online retailers. And also, any retailer selling the major brands is going to be the same or worse as far as claiming unrealistic retail pricing, it seems it’s part of the business but maybe this should be reconsidered? IMO, it does nothing to make you look honest when your retail prices are ALWAYS discounted 50% +.

15

Hi DaveC,

If a manufacturer or retailer lists or tells you their actual selling prices for specific products then they are being honest with their prices and then it’s up to a consumer to do the research and decide whether their price is fair or represents “good value” based on how they compare with other similar mattress (not based only on how they compare with the same mattress at a different and possibly “fictional” regular price). For example if the so called “regular” price (or the MSRP) of a mattress is listed as $5000 and it’s on sale for $2500 (and they are advertising a “huge sale” for a 50% discount) and there are other mattresses that are very similar that sell for $2000 that are also available to you then the $2500 sale price may not be particularly good value even though it is being sold at 50% off unless there are other factors that make the higher price “worth it” to you.

If regular prices (or MSRP prices) are inflated (which they often are in the industry) so that “so called” sale prices look better (are calculated as a discount on a “regular price” that nobody ever pays) then the percentage of the discount is very misleading and certainly wouldn’t be an indication of the “value” of a mattress. In other words … it would only be about marketing … not “value”.

While the price of a mattress is certainly one of the more important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase … there are many other parts to the “value” of a mattress purchase as well and unfortunately there isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” value because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that may be more or less important to different people. In other words … the “value” of a mattress purchase is always relative to the other finalists you are considering or to the other mattresses that are available to you in your area or online (if you are also looking at online options). There are many reasons that a mattress that may be “good value” for one person may not be worth considering for someone else.

There is more information about the 3 most important parts of “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

Better manufacturers and retailers don’t generally “negotiate” or have “fake sales” with large discounts based on the time of year or holidays. While they may have some sales with smaller discounts … I would treat retailers or manufacturers that negotiate their prices or have “major holiday sales” (that are often just rotating sales that only change their name at different times of the year) as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don’t need to negotiate or have “fake sales” with misleading discounts to create a false sense of urgency and they sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable. There is more about “so called” sale prices in post #5 here and there is more about negotiating in post #6 here that may also be helpful. There is a big difference between perceived value that is based on a price that isn’t real or that nobody ever pays and real value based on how a mattress compares to other similar mattresses that are available to you at the “final prices” you would be paying.

Phoenix

16

Well, we will all have to decide what seems reasonable to us. But to me, the mattress business seems a lot like the used car business. Buyer beware!

To be honest, I don’t appreciate the fact Sleep Nation didn’t disclose the manufacturer of the wool topper and attempted to charge more than the manufacturer. I don’t appreciate the fact I was given a $139 non-tencel mattress protector and told it’s the $199 tencel model, although neither are anywhere close to actual “real world” prices.

OTOH, I am very happy with what I ended up with. The quality of sleep and how my body feels is certainly better than what it was with my old mattress. The wool topper is amazing, although expensive it’s way better than soft latex or memory foam comfort layers, imo. If the mattress lasts a long time I’ll consider this a successful purchase and I would like to thank you, Phoenix and your mattress forum for helping educate me and sort through it all.

17

Hi DaveC,

While I don’t think that your comments apply to the entire industry … I would certainly agree that it applies to much of the mainstream industry (which is one of the main reasons that I started this site).

This is the reason that I added the link since the price you were paying for your wool topper seemed to be high. You can see some other sources for wool toppers for reference in post #3 here.

I also agree with you that if you are told that you will be receiving a Tencel mattress protector that’s what you should receive and I would call them to find out whether this was an honest mistake (in which case they should send you the correct protector).

Other than that … it’s good to see that you are sleeping well on your new mattress and thanks for the kind comments as well :slight_smile:

Phoenix

18

I had tried out several wool toppers in the $300 range and the Suite Sleep wool topper was so much better, seems like a totally different product… After checking out the links in your post I think Suite Sleep is charging a fair price… a few of the others look very similar and are in the same price range… and I wouldn’t be surprised if they are the same or similar. In any case I’m glad I was made aware of this kind of topper, even if it did mean having to ask Sleep Nation to give me a fair price. If I didn’t try the Suite Sleep topper there is a good chance I would have went with a mattress that is overall too soft in order to get the soft comfort layer the wool topper provides. I slept on the mattress I bought without the topper for a few days and while it was nice, I really wanted a soft comfort layer on top. And after sleeping on the firm mattress and seeing how I feel in the morning I have no doubt firm was the way to go. So in the end everything seems to have worked out really well.

I know it’s personal preference, but I prefer the wool topper to a softer layer of foam, even latex talalay. Although, I bet the Suite Sleep latex/wool hybrid topper is awesome… it just costs almost as much as my mattress!

On the mattress protector, if I didn’t have the topper I would have upgraded. The one I was given is very noticeable directly under an sheet and not in a good way. The Tencel model actually has worse reviews on Amazon vs the one I have and the difference in actual price is not large. It’s just disappointing I was shown a sample of the tencel model and given the cheaper polyester model instead. Because of the topper I’m sure I won’t notice the difference so I’m not going to deal with it. But there’s no doubt it’ll affect my recommendations to others as far as my experience at Sleep Nation.

19

hey Dave
I’m guessing that you’re in the Denver metro area - I printed out the list of local retailers from Phoenix it was more than what I had expected, didn’t realize that there’s a lot of independent mattress sellers. I’ve narrowed my list of prospects down to Innomax (any reason why you didn’t look at them?) Sleepnation (I’ll remember your experience + I’ve already have a mattress protector- I’;; check out the wool topper that sounds really interesting) and Verlo. (I think they’ll be to expensive Boulder an all LOL) So far, I’ve checked out their websites & called them to get a general price range of a firm/cushion firm King innerspring hybrid before going in to check out the mattresses. I hope to keep my all in cost at/below $2K so I hope to fine the perfect mattress that meets the PPP :slight_smile: I’m glad I read your thread & found this forum loaded with great information. I agree that shopping for a mattress is much like buying a car!
Thanks!
Georgia

20

Yeah, didn’t know Innomax existed! There are a lot of choices, I just missed that one…

Sorry for the slow reply, nothing more to report… the new mattress/topper are working out really well!

Check Phoenix’s list of wool toppers, the Suite Sleep one is pretty similar to the other higher priced ones if not the exact same thing, I wouldn’t be without one after having one!