Natura Eco Haven 6 inch latex core - worth building on?

[LauraB]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for this amazing opportunity to learn more about how good support and comfort and a great night’s sleep really work. My understanding of what my difficulties are improved dramatically in just a few days.

I currently sleep on a 6 inch Dunlop latex core that used to be part of a Natura Eco Haven bed, it used to have a topper of Talalay encased in wool. I threw out the Talalay from the topper (kept the wool cover though) because I hated both its softness and its bouncy feel and it was doing nothing for me, just sinking me deeply without any feeling of resilience and support.

While I never knew its ILD, some research on the internet indicates that the Talalay topper might have been between 28-32 ILD while the Dunlop core is somewhere around 32 ILD, but feeling more like 36 ILD for some people.

The remaining core looks of high quality, it is nicely encased in organic cotton and a bit of wool, I have a hard time deciding to throw it away! Here is the problem: it is not firm enough for back sleeping, not soft enough for side sleeping, and it does not do a good job of aligning my spine in either position. My pelvic area tends to sink in a bit too much, whether on my back or on my side.

I am 5.8 tall and weigh around 185 lbs, I carry a lot of weight in the pelvic area, I am told by mattress experts that what works for me is “medium firm” and I assume that what I am sleeping on now is just “medium” or even medium soft. Can I firm it up with a layer of firm Dunlop on top of the medium core and then soften it again with another layer of ultrasoft Dunlop? If yes, how thick should those layers be? I sleep mostly on my back, but I like to switch to side sleeping every now and then.

The bed I liked the most in a showroom was a Sleeptek, their Euro 4 with a 4 inch firm layer at the bottom, a 2 inch ultrasoft layer at the top and 4 inch layer of either firm or soft in between. All Dunlop. What confuses me is that I liked both configurations (soft in the middle or firm in the middle) although the firm one felt better for my back. Even though this was 8 inches of “firm”, that was the softest bed in the showroom! I loved the firmer beds by Savvy Rest and Green Sleep too, but they did nothing for my shoulders. What is the best strategy for me? Should I even consider building on what I have, or just go brand new?

Thanks, and sorry for the long winded spiel!

Laura

[phoenix]

Hi LauraB,

The remaining core looks of high quality, it is nicely encased in organic cotton and a bit of wool, I have a hard time deciding to throw it away! Here is the problem: it is not firm enough for back sleeping, not soft enough for side sleeping, and it does not do a good job of aligning my spine in either position. My pelvic area tends to sink in a bit too much, whether on my back or on my side.

I personally would tend to keep it if there is a way to make it work. Your experience is a little unusual and outside of what “averages” or “theory” says would likely work for you because for most people in your weight range the 32 ILD Dunlop core would usually be OK for back sleeping although it may need some extra softness for side sleeping. Of course each person is different and your own experience is always more accurate than any theory. Do you experience any actual symptoms when you sleep on it or is it just a “feeling” that you are sinking in too far (which may be connected to the feel of latex itself rather than an indication of whether you are actually in alignment).

I am 5.8 tall and weigh around 185 lbs, I carry a lot of weight in the pelvic area, I am told by mattress experts that what works for me is “medium firm” and I assume that what I am sleeping on now is just “medium” or even medium soft. Can I firm it up with a layer of firm Dunlop on top of the medium core and then soften it again with another layer of ultrasoft Dunlop? If yes, how thick should those layers be? I sleep mostly on my back, but I like to switch to side sleeping every now and then.

“Medium firm” is not really a meaningful term because it is relative to the person and can have many definitions. It can refer to subjective perceptions which are relative (as in this mattress feels like a medium firm to me), the softness/firmness of the surface layer (an ILD in between medium and firm regardless of the layers underneath it), the average firmness of the mattress as a whole (all the layers interact together to create the feel and response of the mattress so a thinner layer of soft latex over a firm latex may be “medium firm” by some people’s definition), a description of two individual separate layers (a medium layer over a firm layer), or just a very general description of the overall feel or response of the mattress. If you add a firmer layer on top of the core it will firm up the core and the support to some degree yes but the layer below it will still have some effect on how firm it will be (it won’t be as firm as the same layer over a firmer layer of latex). In terms of thickness there is no formula that can know how any person or how certain body weights or sleeping styles will respond to any particular layering outside of “averages” (which don’t apply to everyone) but I would use a minimum of 2" of firm so that it’s thick enough to absorb some of the compression and reduce the amount the layer below it compresses. 3" would be better but firmness and thickness work together so it would depend on the firmness of the Dunlop as well (thinner layers allow more of the properties of the foam below it to “come through”) so trial and error and personal experience is really the most accurate way to know with any certainty.

The bed I liked the most in a showroom was a Sleeptek, their Euro 4 with a 4 inch firm layer at the bottom, a 2 inch ultrasoft layer at the top and 4 inch layer of either firm or soft in between. All Dunlop. What confuses me is that I liked both configurations (soft in the middle or firm in the middle) although the firm one felt better for my back. Even though this was 8 inches of “firm”, that was the softest bed in the showroom! I loved the firmer beds by Savvy Rest and Green Sleep too, but they did nothing for my shoulders. What is the best strategy for me? Should I even consider building on what I have, or just go brand new?

Again this is counter to conventional theory which says that softer and thicker layers on top of your mattress would increase the risk of sleeping out of alignment. The soft version may be comfortable with some initial testing and would certainly fill in the gaps in your sleeping profile but alignment issues usually show up in the morning when you wake up not so much when you first go to sleep. To test for alignment it’s a good idea to test it both visually making sure that as much as you can that you verify that the spine is close to the same alignment as it is when you are standing up straight with good posture and also by “feel” based on your muscles’ ability to “let go” when you are completely relaxed without any sense of strain or discomfort in your lower back. Slight symptoms, strain, or discomfort or a tendency to keep your muscles tight when you are testing a mattress for 15 minutes or so when you are completely relaxed can become bigger symptoms over the course of the night so it’s important to make sure you have loose clothing, are completely relaxed in a “pre-sleep” state when you are testing, and to “listen” to the subtle cues of your body and back when you are testing a mattress for alignment so that as much as possible it can be a good indication of how you will sleep on the mattress over the course of the night. I would personally avoid designs that used 6" of soft latex on top because conventional wisdom says that for most people this would be risky and if there is a choice between two designs that seem roughly equal I would choose the firmer one because it is less risky and has more options to fine tune it and make it softer. It may also make a difference on what they are calling soft or firm because this may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer … especially with Dunlop latex which can have a wider variance of firmness than Talalay. Your experience of feeling like the 8" of firm was the softest bed in the showroom was either because your subjective perceptions are different from the norm or it could also be an indication that their layers weren’t labeled correctly because having 6" of soft latex on top of a 4" firm core would be softer in actual fact than having a firmer layer in the middle.

If it’s possible or practical … you could always test a Savvy Rest with 6" of medium on the bottom and then a 3" firm layer and a 3" soft layer on top to see how it feels for you and if this appears to work well and your medium core is roughly equivalent to the ILD’s of the Savvy Rest Dunlop then it would be a reference point that would indicate that a 3" firm Dunlop layer and a 3" soft Dunlop layer may work well for you over your 6" core.

The accuracy of your own testing experience and your ability to approximate what you have tested in the layers you purchase is really the only reliable way to know whether a particular combination will work for you. “Averages” say that 3" of firm and 3" of soft Dunlop over your core would have good odds of working but there are also some people where averages or theory doesn’t translate into actual experience and beyond that your ability to exchange a layer you purchase if it turns out not to work as well as you hoped would be an important part of being able to experiment with less risk.

Phoenix