This is a Great site and forum. I’ve learned a ton in my search for my first latex mattress.
Based on this research, Brooklyn Bedding’s Ultimate Dream mattress was my front runner in terms of owner satisfaction and low price. Since I bought my last mattress at Jordan’s furniture in MA, I went there to try their Simmons Natural Care mattresses since their lower end products have a similar construction to the Ultimate Dream. Unfortunately, my wife and I did not like the feel of these mattresses.
We found one amazingly comfortable and supportive mattress, the Natura Organic EcoSantuary Plush. It has a 2 part design. It comes with a separate topper with stretch-kit surface with 1" convoluted Talalay on 2" of soft Talalay. The main mattress has 2" of medium Talalay on 6" of Dunlop . There wasn’t any softness description about the convoluted layer but would it be correct to say that convolution would soften the feel and make it an extra soft layer? Could a 3 layer mattress come close to this this set up?
At seven times the price of the Ultimate Dream, this mattress isn’t in my price range and I don’t have the need to buy organic. But now I am looking at 3 layer mattress put together as soft on medium on firm. Sleep EZ Select 10,000 and FoamSweetFoam 9" mattresses can be constructed in this way with each layer being 3 inches. But is this a good set up since many other manufacters would have a 5 or 6 inch bottom layer?
While the Dreamfoam would be similar in a generic way … they would also be quite different from the Simmons. They have a polyfoam quilting over 3" of latex which would create a different feel from the Simmons (which uses quiltable latex in the quilting which is firmer) but most importantly the Dreamfoam can be customized to be as firm or as soft in the comfort layers as you wish which can make a significant difference in the feel. Of course you may not like any of the versions of the Dreamfoam either.
It would be correct that the convoluting would make the effective ILD somewhat softer but how soft it would be would depend on the depth of the convolute and on the ILD of the base latex layer. It’s probably fair though to assume that it’s on the softer side. What convoluting also does is give the layer a higher sag factor (the rate that a foam gets firmer with deeper compression) which means the upper convoluted half (or more) would be softer than the ILD of the basic layer but then as it compressed into the non convoluted part it would get firmer more quickly.
The Natura Ecosanctuary (some rough specs are here) has 11" of latex so it may be possible to come somewhat close to the latex portion of the mattress with a 12" layering (which is the closest DIY layering using 3" layers that are similar). Even then though the wool would play a significant role in how the Natura feels so adding a similar density wool topper would come closer yet.
Layer thickness and the progression of the ILD’s of the layers all play a role in the performance and feel of a mattress so you may be able to approximate it but not duplicate it which is a subjective perception anyway and what you build may well be superior to your perception of the Ecosanctuary. While it’s difficult/impossible to duplicate the subjective qualities of a mattress … it would certainly be possible to at least approximate the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and your Preferences) in theory (and PPP should always be the “target” rather than another mattress).
If I was choosing a 3x3" layering … I would likely go with S/M/F and then add a wool topper with a similar density to the Natura. The addition of a wool topper which will modify the feel of the latex in a way that you seem to like. It “shifts” the pressure distribution away from the recessed areas of the body (similar to soft quilting foam) and reduces the compression of the latex and provides some localized pressure relief in the areas of the pressure points so it has a fairly large effect on the overall feel of the mattress.
If I was using a 4x3" layering … I would likely go with S/M/F/XF and then the wool topper. The top 3" of soft would probably be fairly similar to the top 3" of the natura (although without knowing the ILD of the Natura you wouldn’t know how close you came until you lie on it but it’s reasonable to assume it would also be in the soft range). The next 3" medium “transition” layer would be similar to the 2" transition layer of the Natura and then the F/XF base would be similar to the firm 6" dunlop base. You could even use Dunlop for the bottom 6" which would make it closer yet. The extra inch in the transition layer would have a effect and may improve the feel of the DIY version by making it more adaptable to movement and different positions and providing a more “even” transition between layers. this may be better or worse depending on the firmness and the person.
While only the exact same combination of layers and components will duplicate a mattress exactly (including all the non form components) … it would be reasonable to think that either of these could provide similar PPP.
2 x 3" layers can actually be more flexible than a single 6" layer because you can either use two layers of the same ILD or you can use different firmness levels to customize the firmness and the speed of compression (sag factor) of the bottom 6" core. This is all part of customizing the feel of the mattress and provides more options. A single 6" core also works well but two 3" cores can be a little more flexible in terms of customization for support and feel. Whether this is an advantage or unimportant depends on the individual.
As you probably know from reading the site … SleepEz is one of the manufacturing members here which means that I believe they are among the best quality and value in the country. They also offer blended and natural talalay and natural or organic Dunlop as layer choices. With Talalay … the blended version is a better value because it is more pressure relieving, more durable in the softer ILD’s, and less expensive than all natural Talalay. The only real advantage of the natural is for those who want all natural for personal, ecological, or “green” reasons and are happy with the higher price and slightly lower durability although it is also a good quality choice and in the firmer versions it would have similar durability to the blended and perhaps be a little more supportive. Most people would have difficulty telling the two apart.
I also think very highly of Foam Sweet Foam and they have been very knowledgeable and helpful on the occasions I have talked with them. They are also “good people” and they also have good quality and value. They only offer the all natural talalay or organic Dunlop and not the blend but their current special pricing is very good for those who prefer the natural talalay over the blended version.
Yes … two 3" layers can be functionally the same as a 6" layer except it provides more options to customize the firmness level of the support core. for example a firm/Xfirm on the bottom would become firmer faster with compression (better support) than a single firm 6" layer. In the same way a multiple comfort layer such as the Natura has a different performance than a single 3" layer even though it would be similar. All of this is just different constructions and each has advantages and disadvantages. If you wanted the equivalent of a 6" bottom layer with the same ILD throughout … then you would simply choose two 3" layers with the same ILD but there would be no reason to do this for it’s own sake unless you believed this combination of layers on the bottom had advantages over a progressive layering.
Thanks Phoenix! Your thorough explanation was quite helpful.
I decided to go with the SleepEz 10,000 with Talalay Soft/ Talalay Medium / Dunlop Firm. The membership discount is an amazing perk of this forum and the large number of discussions on this mattress helps to make purchase without trying it out first.
I appreciate the advice on the wool topper. I believe SleepEz’s organic cotton + wool cover is thinner than the Natura’s. I planned on adding some form of mattress protector so I was thinking of using a type made with wool. Natura has a cotton fitted mattress pad that is filled with wool. They also have a pure wool “puddle” pad.
Would either pad shift pressure distribution as you were describing for the wool topper? Thanks again.
Yes it is. the SleepEz has enough wool for a fire barrier but it’s not as thick or really part of the “comfort layer” like the Natura.
The Natura puddlepad is felted wool and only meant as a protector not as a part of the comfort layer. Their mattress pads have 2.31 lbs of wool which are also less than the EcoSanctuary which has about twice this amount. To re-distribute pressure in a similar way to the ecosanctuary you would need a similar wool layer of the same density and slightly more may also be OK if you want a little more of the “wool effect” on the latex.
Natura sells some wool toppers with similar amounts of wool that are listed on their site here (look for wool toppers with 4.17 lbs of wool).
I’ve been doing some “wool research” and here are some of my notes about other manufacturers or outlets that have toppers with similar but slightly higher amounts of wool (in the 6-7 lb range) …