Looking at a Natura latex mattress from a small independent store in Cambridge, Ontario called Natur Sleep (owner was previously founder of Natura Mattresses). The mattress I like consists of the following: about 1" wool/ cotton/ foam quilting layer, 4" talalay natural latex comfort layer (2" 19 ILD on top of 2" 28 ILD, from Latex International), and 4" polyfoam support layer (need to get more info on quality/ weight). Can also purchase with a less substantial cotton quilting layer, which provides for a softer mattress feel. My wife and I are both about 5’ 5" and weigh around 150 lbs.
Is 4" of latex in this configuration substantial enough? Any impact to longer term durability?
Mattress can also be had as an imperfect (cosmetic) at reduced cost… thoughts?
Natura was founded by a father and son team Harry and Ralph Rossdeutscher and Ralph was the president until they went bankrupt and were purchased by Spring Air / Sommex. He was originally a vice president of Spring Air / Sommex after the purchase but has since left the company.
By “substantial enough” I’m assuming you mean “thick enough” and that would depend on how good a match the mattress was for you in terms of PPP.
That would depend to some degree on the quality of the support layers but in most cases the “weak link” of a mattress would be in the comfort layers not the deeper layers so at your weight it probably wouldn’t make a significant difference in terms of durability but could make a difference in the feel and performance of the mattress (see post #2 here about the difference between a latex/polyfoam hybrid and an all latex mattress). It doesn’t appear to have any obvious weak links in terms of durability though especially with your lighter weight. There is also more information about the factors that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here and the posts it links to.
That would depend on whether it was legitimately a “cosmetic defect” (sometimes this is language used to describe defective or used mattresses that are a warranty or comfort return and are sold at deep discounts by liquidators), the nature of the defect, whether it still has a factory warranty. The “value” of a mattress depends on your personal value equation and on how the mattress compares to other similar mattresses that are available to you either in the area or online. If it really is a minor cosmetic flaw and the mattress still has a factory warranty and it compares well to other similar mattresses that are available to you then I wouldn’t have an issue with it.
In case you haven’t seen it … some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Cambridge, ON area are listed in post #2 here.
Google doesn’t show a “natur sleep” store listed in Cambridge … do you have a link?
Thanks so much for your quick and informative reply, Phoenix! Also for the link regarding Ralph … I met him by chance at Natur Sleep just before Christmas, and had the opportunity to chat about his product. He was most helpful and freely discussed composition specifics. Very little on the internet about the store, don’t think it’s been there long. Check out the following address: http://www.southworks.ca/shops-natur-sleep.htm
Some background on me… two bad inner spring experiences in a row … current S&F is 3.5 yrs old (comfort layer is shot), previous was about 4 yrs old (also S&F, replaced under warranty). Don’t want a third, nor can my back handle it … spending much needed time to research first, and your website is a wealth of information (the best I have found). Looking like latex all the way, will post back after investigating local options further.
This would be fairly typical for a Stearns & Foster mattress … and you were fortunate that a warranty exchange was authorized (in many cases the depth of the impressions aren’t deep enough to be considered a defect even though foam softening or “virtual impressions” have led to the loss of comfort or support and the need to replace the mattress).
Thanks for the link for Natur Sleep (although it doesn’t provide too much information) and I’m looking forward to your feedback about your experiences or any of the better options or “candidates” you encounter there or of course any questions you have along the way.
You are absolutely right about body impressions, which is what we started out looking to address with the first S&F but did not reach the required 1.5" depth. What did qualify for warranty - creaky springs and having one side of the mattress lose its shape (collapsing).
To complete details about the Natura mattress … I went back today… the polyfoam support layer is HD, which they can replace with 4" 32 ILD talalay latex if desired (extra cost approx. $800 for a King). The quilting layer consists of 5 lbs wool, 5 lbs cotton, and 1" of 1.8 lb polyfoam. Bamboo cover. PPP is excellent currently, which if anything should improve further by using latex in the support layer (and takes imperfects out of the equation, which I confirmed are cosmetic only eg. stitching, and not previous returns).
Should I have any further concerns here? Still need to explore the list you provided and compare.
All of these are good quality materials except I would want to know the density of the HD polyfoam (HD can include a wide range of densities from about 1.35 lbs up to much higher densities depending on what a manufacturer calls HD). Normally the quilting foam wouldn’t be the weak link of a mattress even in lower density ranges as long as it’s in the range of an inch or so or less but in this case 1.8 lb polyfoam is also a good quality material.
I don’t think I would have any concerns outside of wanting to know the density of the base layer and assuming that the base layer is also 1.8 lb polyfoam or better then there would be no obvious weak links in the mattress.
If possible … I would test the mattress with both a latex and a polyfoam core so you can decide whether any difference in the feel and performance of the mattress justifies the higher cost for you (with your lighter weight the difference for you may be less than it would for someone that was heavier).
I had a Natura full latex mattress once, bought around 2006 from Soma in Toronto. Girlfriend and I both slept on it. I can’t find the model name now but I think it was a 6 or 8" full latex core with the wool on top, one of the less expensive models, so no pillow top or major comfort layer. Fairly firm. I was under the impression it was fully wool on top but perhaps it had some foam in there too.
Anyway, within a year it had some serious body impressions and sagging, and was much less comfortable. We’d both end up sucked into the middle of the bed, etc. I’m not sure what happened to it after that as we broke up and she kept the mattress. And of course since then Natura has been bought out, so the current product is no doubt different.
Why this happened, I don’t know… Natura does note that the wool will develop impressions but this seemed to be more than just that. It was on a platform base with <3" between slats, so that shouldn’t have been a problem. But all in all it was not the best experience. I also found similar reports here, FWIW: http://www.goodbed.com/mattresses/natura-world/
Hopefully this time around I can find a full latex core mattress that won’t have this issue although I must admit I am bit skeptical given this Natura experience that it isn’t going to be a problem regardless of the manufacturer.
There could be many reasons for this including thicker layers of wool which will compress (and this is a normal part of thicker wool layers), other materials used in the comfort layers (such as lower density polyfoam), choosing a mattress where the comfort layers were too thick and/or soft for your body type, sagging in the foundation under the mattress, or some combination of these. Of course it’s also possible that there was a manufacturing defect in the foam itself (which tend to show up early in the life of a mattress) and if the visible impressions (with nobody on the mattress) is more than the warranty exclusion then it would be replaced under warranty. It’s difficult to speculate about which of these may have been part of the cause without knowing the specifics of the mattress and circumstances.
You will find reports of almost any mattress sagging for different reasons but it can be difficult to know the specifics of each instance without knowing more about all the factors that may be involved or whether the sags are visible or are “virtual impressions”. You can read more about all the factors that can affect the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here and the posts it links to.
The best way to avoid this is to make sure that you know the specifics of all the materials and components in your mattress so you can identify any “weak links” in the mattress and to choose a mattress that is well inside your range in terms of PPP. If a mattress is “on the edge” of being too soft for you when you first buy it then even small amounts of foam softening or the compression or breakdown of materials in the mattress that would be “normal” for the materials can lead to the premature loss of comfort and support and the need to replace the mattress.
Hi Phoenix, it’s been a rather long journey … finally pulled the pin on an all-latex ‘lifetime’ mattress, purchased from Natur Sleep. Since my earlier posts below I’ve kept in touch with store staff, who told me about this new ‘lifetime’ customized model that was coming… was quite intrigued and decided to wait. I’ve read about customization with some US retailers though haven’t come across anything like this in Southern Ontario/ GTA.
layers can be customized - either polyfoam or talalay latex 6" base layer, topped by 2 further 2" layers of talalay latex … they have firm and soft versions in the showroom … one all latex, one using a polyfoam base layer
base layer is common for the whole mattress
2 x 2" layers can be customized for each side of the bed … love this part
quilting layer is wool, with a cotton cover (mine is a bamboo-cotton blend)
there is an all-organic version
The ‘lifetime’ aspect addresses post-purchase changes… get 3 chances in the first year to make the mattress feel right. After first year pay cost put into new components only.
We decided to start with the firm version (ILD 28/ 40 in the top two layers) … my wife absolutely loves her side, too early to tell for me (only been 2 wks). BUT what a great feeling to know I can adjust only my side if needed. VERY happy so far! Given all my prior difficulties, this mattress is like a breath of fresh air.
Your thoughts Phoenix?
Won’t find Natur Sleep on the web yet … site apparently being developed. Store number is 226-606-9252. They also won’t be at Southworks much longer, moving a few blocks to a larger location (8 Main St.) next month.