Natura Twilight Euro Top translated to Aloe Alexis

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Looking for opinions about my theory below and how that translates to an Aloe Alexis.

Tried a Natura Twilight Euro Top tonight which my partner and I both liked. Construction:

1 inch 19 ILD Talalay
2 inches 28 ILD Talalay
6 inches 36 ILD Talalay

We are both on the heavy side, nearing 300 lbs. My theory is that we basically didn’t get any support from the layer of 19 ILD and were almost completely resting on the 28 and 36 ILD layers.

If so, then I think we’d be in the ballpark to get an Aloe Alexis with the following construction:

3 inches 28 ILD Talalay
3 inches 32 ILD Talalay
7 inches 2.17 lb. HD foam core

My thinking is the extra inch of 28 ILD would add a bit of support and then we’d be into a nice, thick layer of 32 ILD to get us near the feel of the Natura mattress. The HD foam core might make it feel a little less soft, perhaps enough to help the second layer feel more like the 36 ILD of the Natura.

My real dilemma is that my partner starts every night on her stomach. Because of that, my plan was to split the bed and have her side be 3 inches of 32 ILD over 3 inches of 36 ILD. However, now I’m really afraid she’ll think that is too firm.

Part of that is based on trying a Vinyasa Firm mattress. She thought it was way too firm, while I thought it was a bit too firm. (Felt like I was lying on it instead of in it.) No construction specs that I could fined either at the store or online.

(I also tried a 2-inch of 28 ILD layer over 6 inches of 1.5 lb. HD foam core, but the support was terrible. When I sat on the bed, I could feel I sunk all the way through to the foam core.)

Anyway, I’d love some feedback about my thoughts on the 1-inch layer of 19 ILD and how the overall bed translates to the Aloe Alexis.

Thanks in advance!!

2

Hi jdg0928,

You can read a little more about trying to match one mattress to another in post #9 here. There is also more about primary support, secondary support, and pressure relief in post #4 here.

I would keep in mind that the top layers are primarily for comfort/pressure relief layers and the deeper layers are for primary support and the layers in the middle help with both to different degrees.

The Natura Twilight Eurotop is very different from your proposed Alexa design and it would be very difficult to translate because there are so many differences between them. They are completely different mattresses.

If I had to take a wild guess I would say that the Natura would feel a fair bit firmer because there is only 3" of latex in the top layers and then it more quickly transitions into the firmer (more supportive) 36 ILD latex underneath it. The Alexa would have the qulting foam on top which may be roughly equivalent to the 1" of 19 ILD in the Natura and the 3" of 28 ILD would make the comfort layers softer overall than the 2" of 28 ILD in the Natura (layer thickness and layer softness work together). The next layer down in your proposed Alexa design is also lower ILD (less supportive) than the support core in the Natura.

I would also keep in mind that how a mattress feels or how “supportive” it is when you sit on it with all your weight concentrated in one area has little relationship to how well it supports you when you are lying down and your weight is spread out over the length of your body. With such a thin layer of latex over the polyfoam how it felt it would also depend a great deal on the firmness of the polyfoam underneath it.

When you are trying to compare two mattresses that are so different then how it compares will also depend a lot on your body type and sleeping positions and how deeply each psrt of your body sinks in and it’s as much guesswork and imagination as anything else. I would keep your expectations fairl low of “matching” the Natura if that is your goal.

I don’t know anything about your partner’s body type but stomach sleepers generally do best with firmer or thinner comfort layers although this will also depend on their other sleeping positions and how long they spend on their stomach and in other positions.

It seems to me though that you may be mixing up the main functions of support layers (which provide the primary support) and the comfort layers (which provide the pressure relief and the secondary support that fills in the gaps in the sleeping profile).

I would also have a more extended conversation with Brooklyn Bedding because they will know more about their mattresses and how they might “match” another mattress than anyone but I would also think that they would be hesitant to guess when the Natura is so different. If anything I would tend towards one step firmer for you. Your sleeping position(s) will also make a difference.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix,

Excellent assistance! Thank you! This is part of the reason I’ve been scouring the forums and trying to educate myself.

I think I did get a little mixed up with the function of the two layers, but I also expressed myself poorly in some cases. I think I should have stated my goal as configuring the Aloe Alexis in a manner which would give us “medium” to “medium-firm” comfort layer (sinking in) with “medium-firm” support layer (sinking down), not necessarily exactly matching the Natura since those two descriptions seem closer to the terms you use to describe the two layers and are also applicable to other beds we tried and liked.

Anyway, after giving this more thought and speaking with Mario from BB, I agree with your wild guess that the Natura would feel firmer than the Alexis since we hit the 36 ILD support layer sooner than we would hit the HD foam in the Alexis. (Btw, Mario said they estimate their BB HD foam provides roughly the same support as a 34 or 36 ILD Talalay latex support layer.)

My partner reads and falls asleep on her stomach, but sleeps mostly on her back. I’d say 25-35 percent of her time is on her stomach. I’m on my back about 80 percent and side about 19.9 percent of the night. In terms of feel, we like about the same softness, but a slightly softer feel doesn’t bother me. Taking everything into consideration, I think I’m going to talk to Mario about the following:

Her Side
3 inches 28 ILD Talalay
3 inches 36 ILD Talalay

My Side
3 inches 28 ILD Talalay
3 inches 32 ILD Talalay

That should give us both some softness, but she’ll hit 36 ILD latex quickly and hopefully not think the bed is too soft. And if she does, I can swap my 32 ILD layer with her 28 ILD layer to see if 32-over-36 feels better. She’s not excited about trying different combinations, but the Aloe Alexis’ flexibility and exchange policy is a big part of why I’m OK buying online.

Speaking of which, as difficult as it has been to decide which layers to purchase it’s been significantly harder to get her to buy into my argument for purchasing a bed online. No matter how much I explain the consistently positive (and detailed) reviews, significant increase in material quality and substantial savings, she just can’t understand why anyone would purchase a mattress they haven’t tested. But she’s tired of shopping for a bed, so I have the green light to make the purchase.

Well, I’d better sleep on this (no pun intended) and make a decision soon. I’ve already spent more time researching a bed than I did my last car, but I guess I’d rather sleep well than drive well!

4

Hi jdg0928,

I would keep in mind that terms like “medium firm” and “medium” and all the similar terms used to describe a mattress are very subjective and are only relative to each other. Someone that is much heavier or sleeps in different positions may perceive a certain material as being very soft while someone who is much lighter may feel the same material as being very firm and even different combinations can have a very different “feel” for different people. The terms are useful to compare two mattresses in terms of an overall impression because it can indicate that one would “feel” firmer than another for most people overall but the terms say little about what the mattress will feel like for any specific person. You can read a little more about the different types of softness and firmness in post #15 here.

I don’t know your partners weight so I can’t really comment on how they would feel on the suggested layering (and BB would likely be closer than I would anyway because they are more familiar with their own mattresses than anyone and a voice conversation can cover more ground than writing on a forum) but your side would seem to be “in the range” although the comfort layers may be a little on the thick/soft side compared to the Natura.

I would also keep in mind that it helps to imagine the layers compressing sequentially when you are trying to predict or imagine how a mattress may feel or interact with a certain body type but in reality all the layers of a mattress compress simultaneously and the more any individual layer compresses the firmer it gets until it becomes firmer than the layer below it at which time the layer below also compresses (again all of this happens simultaneously).

Yes … different types of foam are measured in different ways (see post #6 here) and IFD in polyfoam is not equivalent to ILD in latex and even different types of latex aren’t equivalent in terms of ILD. Polyfoam can be up to about 20% or so firmer at the same ILD as latex but latex has a higher compression modulus so it gets firmer faster than polyfoam when you compress it.

You certainly are going in a good direction and as you mentioned have good options after a purchase where you can use your actual experience in sleeping on the mattress to make any adjustments if necessary. If you are having any trouble choosing between two layering combinations that are fairly similar I would tend towards the one that was slightly firmer … especially with latex because it is so adaptable and “point elastic” (meaning it can shape itself to the contours of a body very well) that even firmer layers can be very pressure relieving compared to “stiffer” foams.

Phoenix

5

Definitely. I’ve been trying to take into consideration our size (both around 275 lbs.) and included that info in my conversation with Mario about feel. This is certainly more of an art than a science, but understanding my goal and evaluating the variables is part of the (enjoyable, for me at least) challenge.

Wow, I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I’ll keep it in mind as I move forward.

Yes, that’s why I bumped my side from 24-over-28 to 28-over-32. For her side, I still think I’ll go with 28-over-36 because Mario and I agreed that she might find a top layer of 32 just a bit too “hard” since a transition layer of 36 would have a higher support-to-comfort ratio and, as you noted, a 32 ILD layer is going to equal the 36 ILD layer much earlier than a 28 ILD top layer. And, if I’m wrong, I’ll just put my 32 on top of her 36 and see how that feels!

That’s the key to all this. With two pieces of 28 and one each of 32 and 36 ILD, I can put together seven unique combinations ranging from 36-over-32 to 28-over-28. I feel like there has to be something in that range which would work for us. And if I need to do an exchange, I’m still saving hundreds of dollars over the lower quality mattresses we saw in the stores. (Heck, I’d still be saving money with two exchanges, but Mario said – and I’ve yet to find contrary evidence in reviews or the forum – they rarely need to do a second exchange.)

Thank you again for all the help. This is a pretty overwhelming experience, but at some point I just need to trust what I’ve learned, make the purchase and adjust if necessary. It just seems daunting since it’s a good amount of money and returning a mattress that is completely wrong is so difficulty it’s almost not worth the hassle and expense. But after doing my homework, I have to trust that we’re on the right path and only minor adjustments will be necessary.

6

Hi jdg0928,

I’d say you’re on the right path and “in the range” as well.

Phoenix