Need Help! Good deal on pure latex bliss - Nature - or maybe not?

Good morning Phoenix,

I have slept 2 nights with the PLB Nature mattress on the floor. It, surprisingly, feels very differently than it did on the foundation, and not in a good way. It feels very, very firm! My shoulders donā€™t sink in so they roll up and cause discomfort, and overall I donā€™t find it comfortable at all. My neck and back hurt. Maybe there is a new break-in period with the bed on the floor? I believe that the foundation that came with the bed allows for sinking in the shoulder and hip areas but it otherwise doesnā€™t support the bed properly. Not to mention that it caused upper middle back pain. What are your thoughts?

I still feel this is a very high quality mattress and I would like to solve it rather than return it. I viewed the page with all the toppers that have a good return or exchange policy. Iā€™m inclined to go with a PLB topper because itā€™s somewhat cooler and helpful for my hot flashes. Would you recommend a 2" or 3"? I am 5ā€™4", weigh 130-135# and am built curvy. The PLB topper is much more money than I want to dish out but I can justify it if it lasts many years to come. I also need to research their fast vs slow topper.

Obviously, my goal is to be 100% comfortable and pain free and sleep well.

Thanking you in advance.

Hi rceisland,

At least you have confirmed that the foundation wasnā€™t supporting the mattress properly because there should be little to no difference between a suitable foundation and the floor.

Post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to have some suggestions about choosing the thickness and firmness that have the best chance of success and links to some of the better topper sources Iā€™m aware of as well but the only way to know for certain whether a topper will be a good match for you and your mattress will be based on your actual sleeping experience so the return or exchange policy can be an important part of choosing a topper in case your ā€œbest guessā€ doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hope for.

The PLB topper would only be slightly cooler when you first go to sleep at night but wonā€™t make a great deal of difference over the course of the night compared to a regular Talalay topper (see post #2 here).

Most of the PLB retailers Iā€™m aware of donā€™t allow returns or exchanges on a topper so when you are in a trial and error mode it may be a good idea to purchase an equivalent topper from a source that allows for exchanges or returns and they will likely have a lower price than the PLB topper as well.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

After reading your suggestion, I decided to try a 2" queen size memory foam topper, which I own and is at least 2 years old, (Bergad 5 lb memory foam) on my new king bed. I have an Outlast cover on it. I have slept on it 3 nights and it feels very comfortable and soft and doesnā€™t make anything hurtā€¦until I get up. I am having slight low back pain after slleping on my back. I still have upper mid back pain as well and some neck/shoulder pain. I donā€™t know if this is residual or new pain.

I looked at the sites for latex toppers with strong return/exchange policies and they are expensive. First, I went to a mattress store in Ft. Lauderdale which carries both the Nature and the PLB 3 inch topper, which may be too thick/squishy. Later, I went to the store where I bought my PLB Nature mattress and tried a 2" topper there which felt comfortable, but the base where the PLB Nature sits atop is a L & P base so I donā€™t know if it would feel the same at home. Pure Latex Bliss has discontinued the 2" active fusion topper. The owner reportedly would agree to sell me the 2" topper for $299, which is a fair price.

I would like to try to mimic the ā€œBeautifulā€ model by PLB, if possible. Can you help me figure out if this, or another latex topper, could feel somewhat like the Beautiful model? What ILD should I be looking for to achieve this? Iā€™ve also looked on Amazon and eBay and the prices seem to be more in my range; I just have to see each individual return policy.

One more thing, The adjustable split king base by Sleep Science seems to be a great deal at Costco for $1599. I wanted to get your thoughts on this.

Iā€™m beginning to have second thoughts whether the Nature is the right bed for me to be totally pain freeā€¦

Hi rcseisland,

The lower back pain would generally indicate that there was too much thickness/softness in the upper layers of your sleeping system (the topper in combination with the softer comfort layers in your mattress). The other issues could be a residual from your previous experience or could also be from comfort layers that are too thick/soft or possibly a pillow issue as well.

Any base that has very little to no flex would feel the same as another base under your mattress (or the floor) which also has very little to no flex.

The design of the Nature is too different from the Beautiful to be able to match one to the other with a topper but the closest ā€œapproximationā€ would probably be to add a 2" - 3" Talalay latex topper in either 14 ILD (for blended Talalay) or 15 ILD (for Talalay GL fast response). A link to a list of the better sources for latex toppers that Iā€™m aware of are in the topper guidelines I linked in my last reply but I would make sure you talk with KTT since they can supply any of the latex made by Latex International and have some very good prices.

Post #3 here and the adjustable bed thread it links to has more information about choosing an adjustable bed but if the Sleep Science has the features that you want and is less than other adjustable beds with the same or very similar features in the same size then it would certainly be worth considering and the price seems to be very reasonable to me.

Phoenix

Thank you!! Iā€™m waiting for a call back from Maureen at KTT Enterprises. Have a great weekend and Iā€™ll try not to bother you. :slight_smile:

Hey Phoenix,

Just wanted to let you know that I went to Slumber Ease Factory (Marysville, WA) today. Nick wasnā€™t there, but I worked with Rex and thought he was great. Very knowledgeable. Although Iā€™m leaning towards latex, he also had me try some other mattresses. He even suggested I wait a few days and come back again and try out the two that I felt best met my needs. No pressure. The mattresses Iā€™m considering are a little pricier than I thought buying factory-direct would be but within the range that you would expect of good quality latex mattresses. On another note, I also went to 6-Day Mattress (Redmond, WA). Again, no pressure, but I didnā€™t feel the salesperson (not Bald Bob) was as informative as Rex. I was able to ā€˜test driveā€™ several Pure Latex Bliss mattresses and am going back to try them again now that Iā€™ve tried some other latex mattresses. Interestingly, it seems I do the best with 36 ILDā€“at least that was consistent at both 6-Day and SEF. When I go up to 40, it initially feels good (Iā€™m a back sleeper and like firm-ish), but I think that would be too firm over time.

Another noteā€“which might be interesting to other members who want to purchase PLBā€“I contacted one of the MU members to get a quote. Jeff Scheuer, Owner, Mattress to Go, got back to me very quickly, and his quote for PLB Nature came in about $300 less than what I would pay at 6DM. When you factor in our high sales tax in WA, it will be more like a $500 difference. With Mattress to Go, there is no sales tax, and the quote included white glove delivery. As much as everyone loves Bald Bob, and as much as I would like to purchase locally, $500 is nothing to sneeze atā€“especially tacked on to a $2K mattress.

Soā€¦ I am so grateful for all the information you provide. I never would have thought about going factory direct, and your recommendations of knowledgeable and reputable mattress sellers is invaluable.

Looking forward to a better nightā€™s sleep soon! :stuck_out_tongue:

Carol

Hi cado212,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback ā€¦ I appreciate it :slight_smile:

I think that this was a good suggestion because sometimes if you test too many different mattresses on the same day itā€™s easy to get ā€œtesting fatigueā€ where everything starts to blur together and you get desensitized and can lose track of all the differences between mattresses you have tested.

Iā€™m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

Hi rcseisland,

Iā€™m ā€œon dutyā€ 7 days a week and your questions are always welcome no matter which day of the week :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

So the plot thickensā€¦ :dry: I went back to 6-Day Mattress to try the PLB again then asked Josh if there was anything else I should try, and he put me on the Electropedic HP Extra Firm (1" 24 ILD + 6" 36 ILD Core + 1" 24 ILD), and I am totally over the PLB. What is so interesting, tho, is I called the factory, and the factory-direct price was more than Bobā€™s price! But thatā€™s neither here nor there. Iā€™m going to ask you the same question I asked the person I spoke to at Electropedic and didnā€™t really get a definitive answer. While I was on their web site I saw their Ultimate mattress which is 11" vs 9". From a purely esthetic perspective, I prefer the deeper mattress as it fits sheets better and would look better on my sleigh bed, and I like the deeper look. BUT while that is an issue, my comfort is my primary concern, and Iā€™m wondering about the difference in feel. If the Electropedic HP felt great, could I lose that by going with the thicker top and bottom layers or might it be even more blissful (yes, I know you canā€™t feel what I feel :wink: ) Since I would be selecting their ā€œextra firmā€ (although it didnā€™t feel super firm) might the extra inch on each side provide even more support to the pressure points without that sinking in feeling of the plush latex mattresses? The other mattress Iā€™m still considering is the Slumber Ease mattress. The one I tested that I really loved had a 6" core of 36 ILD with top and bottom layers of 2" 19 ILD. Since both companies get their latex from Latex Intā€™l am I testing apples to apples? And at what point is a different ILD noticeable, i.e. 24 vs 19? I swear, itā€™s easier for me to buy a car or house than it is to buy a mattress! After the last mattress mistake I feel like I have post traumatic stress when it comes to purchasing a mattress, but I need to make a decision soon as I am currently on an air mattress, and thatā€™s not doing me any good. Just as a reminder (so you donā€™t have to go back through the feed), I am a back sleeper (nearly 100%), 5ā€™ 5" and 123 lbs.

Thanks again,
Carol

Hi cado212,

Youā€™re right that I canā€™t feel what you feel or know what you will feel on any particular mattress (especially since I have no personal experience with either of them so I donā€™t even know how they would feel for me much less someone else) but if both mattresses had the same support core and cover and the only difference between them was that the 11" mattress had an additional inch of latex in the same firmness level on each side then the 11" mattress would be softer and for most people more pressure relieving (pressure relief and support are opposites) but would also ā€œallowā€ the heavier parts of the body to sink in a little more deeply and for some people could be a little more risky in terms of primary support and alignment (although with only a 2" comfort layer in 24 ILD over a 36 ILD core this would be less likely for most people). Many side sleepers would prefer the version with thicker layers.

There is more about primary support, secondary support, and their relationship to pressure relief in post #4 here and in post #2 here.

They would be apples to apples in terms of the quality and durability of the materials but not in terms of design or PPP. There is more about the different ways that one mattress can ā€œmatchā€ another mattress in post #9 here but every layer and component in a mattress will have some effect on all the other layers and components in a mattress and on the mattress ā€œas a wholeā€ so every difference in any of the layers and components between two mattresses will have some effect on how they compare in terms of PPP (for better or for worse). While how big the difference would be can also depend on where someone is in the range between ā€œI can sleep on anythingā€ and ā€œprincess and the peaā€ ā€¦ in many cases the effect of even seemingly smaller changes (such as changing the thickness of a layer by only an inch) can be very surprising. Depending on the overall design of a mattress and all the other specs that can affect the softness of a material besides just ILD (see post #4 here) and the sensitivity of the person ā€¦ most people would be able to feel a noticeable difference between layers that were 5 ILD apart yes.

Phoenix

Thanks for the indepth reply. Iā€™ll review and see if I have more questions after. Funny that you mention "the range between ā€˜I can sleep on anythingā€™ and ā€˜princess and the peaā€™ " since Iā€™ve been referring to myself as ā€œthe princess in the peaā€ during my recent mattress trials. I am very sensitive to mattresses, so in view of your reply, I think I should stick with what Iā€™ve tested and feels good rather than take a chance on one that I havenā€™t physically tested, although the Electropedic return policy very good. The two mattresses Iā€™m considering now made my back feel like it was humming when I was on them.

Carol

Hi cado212,

Most people will sleep well on a range of mattresses so there isnā€™t only one that would be a good choice but if you are more sensitive than most because of physiology, sensitivity, or even health conditions, and your 'range" of suitable mattresses is narrower then careful testing along with the options you have after a purchase to fine tune a mattress or exchange it (or individual layers in the case of a component mattress) or even to return it for a refund and start over again can become a much more important part of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase and lowering the risk of making a choice that in spite of ā€œbest effortsā€ on your part and on the part of a retailer or manufacturer you are working with doesnā€™t turn out as well as both of you hoped for.

Phoenix

Hi again,

So far, I havenā€™t yet heard back from Maureen of KTT. Iā€™m sure sheā€™s very busy. In the meantimeā€¦and because the clock is ticking for either keeping the Pure Latex Bliss Nature or returning it, I need to make a decision.

  1. I donā€™t love the feel of the Nature with the 2" Bergad 5 lb memory foam topper, which is a couple of years old. I want to try and create a comfortable sleep situation with a latex topper, if possible. Do you think this is possible or should I just exchange the bed for another, probably an inner springs, mattress?

  2. Iā€™m very tempted to buy the discontinued PLB 2" topper for $299, if I donā€™t hear from KTT Enterprises. How do you think it will effect my lower back and spine on the Nature. (I hope Iā€™m not asking too much of you.) Sleeping on the Nature with no topper is unbearable and the memory foam is better but not great. Also, do you know what the ILD is on the PLB 2" topper?

  3. Forget my thoughts about duplicating the Beautiful mattress. Although it feels comfortable in the store, it might not be the right bed either. It seems like such a challenge to get the right amount of thickness/softness without causing pain. I want my shoulders and hips to feel softness and support AND my back to feel wonderful/pain-free.

  4. When I get home from the gym, Iā€™m going to re-read some of the posts with topper guidelines/info.

  5. Thank you. I donā€™t know what Iā€™d do if I didnā€™t have you to bounce things off of. As it is, a few of my friends think Iā€™ve gone batty with my bed preoccupation.

Hi rceisland,

If you tried to contact them and havenā€™t heard back in a business day or so then I would call them again. If you emailed them then either your original email or their reply may have gone astray and you may end up waiting for a reply that will never come.

Itā€™s very likely that you could create a better match in terms of PPP if you choose the most suitable latex topper in terms of thickness and firmness but only your own experience can tell you whether a topper you choose in combination with the Nature would be a good match for you in terms of PPP. Whether to exchange your mattress for a different one would depend on the results of your testing on another mattress you were considering exchanging for compared to your testing on the Nature or the Nature/topper combination and which one your testing indicated would likely be a better match for you in terms of PPP (again only your own experience can tell this). The choice of different types of mattresses or materials is a personal preference and would depend on whether you tend to prefer the ā€œfeelā€ of innerspring support cores or latex support cores. There is more about the difference between them in post #28 here but again your own testing and experience is the only reliable way to know which types of mattresses or materials and components you tend to prefer.

The PLB topper would about 15 ILD but I donā€™t know how it will affect you in terms of PPP. Outside of the topper guidelines I linked in my earlier reply and your own personal testing with this topper on the same mattress in the store, the only reliable way to know whether a specific mattress/topper combination will be a suitable match for you would be based on your personal experience.

Phoenix

Merry Christmas!
So, since Iā€™ve last writtenā€¦I got an adjustable base for my Pure Latex Bliss Nature 3 weeks ago. Itā€™s better, but not what I was hoping for. Surprisingly, I think itā€™s too soft. Or, too firm and soft. I get slight lower back pain when I sleep on my back and mid upper back pain from sleeping on my side. Not excruciating pain, but pain nonetheless. As a positive, I am getting more deep sleep. I went on this site last night and read about some people who were having problems with their new PLB beds. Scary. I donā€™t want my bed to sag or become softer and cause me increasing pain, which seems to be the case with some. The bed store where I bought the bed gave me an extra 30 days and itā€™s up in a day or two. Also, I did speak with Maureen of KTT a month ago (before my adjustable base arrived) about a topper and I told her Iā€™d call her after I slept on the bed with the new base for a few weeks. So I have to do that. But, Iā€™m not sure this bed can be fixed with a 19-24 ILD topperā€¦your thoughts?? My worst fears are that the Nature model wouldnā€™t work for me and Iā€™d be stuck getting a Simmons, Sealy or Sertaā€¦or even a hot tempurpedic. Maybe a dunlop topper? Urgh! So frustrating.

Hi rcseisland,

Unfortunately there is no way for me to know this outside of your own personal experience and feedback. Given your previous comments in this topic and your lighter body weight I would be tempted to try a topper in the 14 - 15 ILD range (probably 2" to reduce the risk of thicker softer toppers) but of course the exchange and return policies will be an important consideration in case it doesnā€™t work out as well as you hope for.

It also doesnā€™t sound like you have enough time to test a topper any longer without your trial period on the mattress running out because if you try it and it doesnā€™t work out for you then you wouldnā€™t have any other options to exchange the mattress for something else. Deciding on what to do next will really be a matter of ā€œbest judgementā€ based on whether you think some additional softness will improve your experience for the better and which of your options you believe would have the least risk.

I still think that a pillow that keeps your head and neck in good alignment may also be helpful with the upper body issues as well (or at least would be worth testing) although you may very well find that a softer topper that allows your shoulders to sink in more deeply will help with this as well.

One other suggestion that may be worth trying is to raise the foot of your bed a couple of inches to see if that helps with the lower back pain when you are on your back.

The only way to know whether any of these or any of the other suggestions in my earlier replies would be helpful for you though will be based on your personal experience and feedback and by comparing how each change you make changes your ā€œsymptomsā€ and experience compared to the one before it.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

I left a message for KTT Enterprises but itā€™s Christmastime so not sure when Iā€™ll hear back.

I was surprised to read that a 14 or 15 ILD topper could possibly help because the mattress already feels very soft. I had thought that going firmer would be better for my back?

When I tried the bed on the floor, it felt much firmer (painfully so). The Costco electric base is covered with foam and perhaps that is making it softer?

Iā€™m a pillow fan and when I bought the PLB Nature, I also bought a PLB pillow. I have an assortment of pillows from thin to thick as well as a shredded latex from Dreamfoam Bedding. I sleep with a pillow between my knees and sometimes cuddle one across my front to keep my shoulder from sinking.

I have a confession. I often use my MacBook while lying in bed which could be a contributing factor to some of the pain Iā€™m experiencing.

Hi rcseisland,

A mattress that is too soft and a mattress that is too firm for your body type and sleeping positions can both cause back pain. The goal is always to maintain good alignment in all your sleeping positions. There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief and firmness in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may help you visualize what good support/alignment and pressure relief ā€œlooks likeā€.

I would be surprised if there was foam on the top surface of the Sleep Science adjustable rather than just around the edges. It should provide similar support to the floor or any other rigid non flexing support surface.

It certainly could be yes ā€¦ especially the upper back pain.

You could be correct that your mattress is too soft already but the only reliable way to know with any certainty would be based on your own personal experience and feedback. Based on your body type and your comments though ā€¦ I would have guessed that you would be more likely to benefit from a little softer sleeping surface.

Phoenix

Dear Phoenix,

I would like to tell you that I have finally found my successful sleeping arrangement! I bought a Pure Latex Bliss topper: the 2 Inch Fast Response Natural Talalay Latex With Activefusion topper, to place upon my PLB Nature mattress, which sits atop a Costco adjustable base. Bedding Barn, where I bought my Nature mattress, sold it to me for $299.00. I think this particular topper is being discontinued. I have been sleeping on it for more than a week and I am thrilled to report that Iā€™m pain-free and comfortable, at least when I sleep on my side. Although when I started, I never planned to spend close to $4000 on a new bedā€¦a great nightā€™s sleep and waking feeling good is of utmost importance.

I just wanted to let you know the end of my bedtime story, and appreciate your listening ear and helpful suggestions. I will report again in a few months. Hopefully, I will feel the same at that time. Thank you for your help.

Sweet Dreams,

rcseisland

Hi rceisland,

Thanks for the update ā€¦ and thatā€™s great news :slight_smile:

Phoenix