Need help with Canadian Retailers

Can anyone tell me if I am being ripped off or is this a good deal for a Mattress I am considering purchasing from a company called Dreamstar in Ontario. Anyone recommend a retailer in Ontario, I am being sold a king size mattress from this company called " Prestige" I have included the specs , I just do not know if $1200 is good or bad and is the mattress going to last, please help.

Support System
Coil Style 884 3 Zone double tempered pocket coils; 13 gauge
Edge Support 360Âş Degree Foam Encasement A firm Seating Edge and
Support Base Reduces Motion Transfer Across Sleep Surface

Comfort System
Insulation Two full lumbar support pads with 1" insulator pad
Primary Upholstery 3/4" ultra comfort layer
PT Upholstery 2" Ultra high density bio foam; 1 - 1/2" Premium Ultra Plush Foam

Quilt Package
Ticking & Quilt Pattern Tack and jump cotton fabric
Quilt Pattern 1 - 1/2" foam + super soft 40 0z hollowfill fiber to keep the
mattress warm in the winter and cool in the summer

Label Nameplate with model hand tag

Border Package
Quilt Specification 3/8" quilted border
Handles Matching Flag Stitched Cloth Handles
Ventilation Vents that allow air to circulate throughout a mattress in order to
keep it fresh and odour-free
Foundation
Model 9" high profile semi flex foundation
Border Style 3/8" quilted border with co ordinated waterfall border
Corner Guards Dreamstar Logo Corner Guards

Packaging
Bag Style & Boot Extra Thick Plastic Bag and Protective Plastic Boot

Profile (+/- 1/2") 15" Mattress + 9" Base = 24" Set

Warranty 10 year Non - Prorated

SIZE	Twin	Twin XL	Full	Full XL	Queen	King	
Coil Count	544	578	738	782	884	 1,122

Hi Mattress,

Just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place I would start your research is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Unfortunately … the specs you listed aren’t complete so it really isn’t possible to make any meaningful comments about the mattress.

The innerspring itself is a low gauge thicker wire which would be a firm and durable choice but the weak link of a mattress is usually in the comfort layers above the innerspring not the support components and the specs you posted only include the type of foam but no information about the quality or durability of the foam materials that are above the innerspring. The information you would need to make an informed choice about any mattress is in this article and if you can find out and list them on the forum I’d be happy to make some comments about the materials or help you identify any possible weak links in the mattress. Without this there is no way to identify any weak links or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

Dreamstar or their retailers should be able to provide the information you need and they are a regional wholesale manufacturer that can be among the better choices in your area but if for any reason you aren’t able to find out I would pass the mattress by because buying a mattress where there is no way to assess the quality or durability of what you are buying can be very risky … particularly if there are almost 6" of unknown quality materials in the upper layers of the mattress. A mattress will tend to soften and break down from the top down so the quality and durability of the upper layers are the most important part of the useful life of a mattress.

Ontario is very large so if you can let me know your city or postal code I’d be happy to link you to the forum list of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your general area.

Phoenix

Phoenix, thanks very much, I am new I did not think I would get a reply so quickly. I have read and read, the reality is that its overwhelming and retailers, many of them do not have answers to the comfort layers or their thickness ect, I am lucky when they tell me if the spring is tempered or not, and I am serious when I say 99% of the retailers that I ask don’t have answers.Please make my life easier and recommend a store that I will not get ripped off at and or a mattress (prefer pocket coil mattress) that is pillow top and that is good quality., I would love locations in my area that are honest and sell quality. I can buy mattresses in Toronto , Scarborough (M1G 1E6), and Durham area like Oshawa. Any place recommended would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Hi Mattress,

Unfortunately this is the “norm” in most of the mainstream industry and most of the members here that spend a couple of hours on the site will know more meaningful information about mattresses and materials than most of the salespeople in the mainstream industry. This is one of the reasons that I started the site so that people would know how to ask more meaningful questions and be better able to find more knowledgeable and experienced retailers and manufacturers.

I don’t keep any records of the mattresses that any of the manufacturers or retailers in the many lists for different areas in the forum (that would be an impossible job in a constantly changing market) but if you follow the steps in the tutorial post one at a time you will be able to identify both the stores and the mattresses that are the best options for you.

I’m happy to help with “how” to choose but there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to recommend “what” to choose (or even a specific store in most cases) based on theory at a distance or on personal criteria that may be different from yours.

If you are in the Greater Toronto area then the better options and possibilities I’m aware of are listed in post #1 here.

The tutorial post also has a list of some of the better online options that ship anywhere across Canada (it’s in post #21 here) for those who are comfortable with an online purchase.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

I am interested in sleeping on a bed that feels like the ones at the fancy hotels, primarily a pillow top feel. I also want a bed to last for ten years or so. So I went to one of the retail locations that was mentioned on this site. I was offered a customized king size latex mattress set, a headboard , metal frame, delivery (close to 200 km of travel) and set up for $2000.00. The latex bed is made of talalay , 6 inches of 45 density of latex at core and 2 inches of 30 density on top, covered by quilt comprised of organic cotton fabric that contains !/2 inch of bio foam. Initially he wanted to put polyester in the quilt and I explained I have allergies , so he went to bio foam, I am not sure if that matters or not. My questions to you, knowing that I want a pillow top feel with mattress longevity are these layers and density combinations going to give me that, if not what do you think would be a better fit, keeping in mind that I have no pain anywhere, just want that pillow top sensation and longevity. Also, am I paying too much, as $2000 was a bit over my budget.Please share your thoughts.

Thank you/

Hi Mattress,

There is more about hotel mattresses in post #3 here but there is no standard type of hotel mattress or “hotel mattress feel” or even “pillowtop feel” because it all depends on the specifics of what is inside the mattress. They are also made by many different manufacturers but they are usually higher priced and/or lower quality versions of similar consumer mattresses made by the same manufacturer with a few minor changes so they can claim that they are “proprietary” and charge extra for the name on the label. They are a common source of buyers remorse. There are more people who prefer their own mattress than prefer even high end hotel mattresses (see this survey) and the reason that some people seem to do well with hotel mattresses in general is most likely because almost any mattress that is in relatively good condition may feel better than what they are sleeping on if it’s past the end of its useful lifetime or isn’t suitable for you any longer.

They also don’t provide any specific information about the materials inside them so you can’t match them based on specs (and you wouldn’t want to anyway because the major brands tend to use lower quality materials) so the only way to make any kind of subjective comparisons in terms of “feel” is to test mattresses until you find one that “feels” similar to the way you remember the hotel mattress feeling (and your subjective memory of how something “feels” is not usually reliable). In very general terms (which can vary widely) they are typically a firmer innerspring with a medium or medium soft comfort layer and then a bedding package on top of this (which may include a topper, sheets, mattress pad, featherbed, and pillows) that adds some extra surface softness and the “aura” of luxury. They are certainly nothing special in terms of quality or value.

[quote]I was offered a customized king size latex mattress set, a headboard , metal frame, delivery (close to 200 km of travel) and set up for $2000.00. The latex bed is made of talalay , 6 inches of 45 density of latex at core and 2 inches of 30 density on top, covered by quilt comprised of organic cotton fabric that contains !/2 inch of bio foam. Initially he wanted to put polyester in the quilt and I explained I have allergies , so he went to bio foam, I am not sure if that matters or not.

My questions to you, knowing that I want a pillow top feel with mattress longevity are these layers and density combinations going to give me that, if not what do you think would be a better fit, keeping in mind that I have no pain anywhere, just want that pillow top sensation and longevity. Also, am I paying too much, as $2000 was a bit over my budget.Please share your thoughts.[/quote]

This mattress certainly uses good quality materials and there are no weak links in the construction or materials and depending on your personal value equation and what you are comparing it to seems to be fair value as well. The most important part of the value of a mattress purchase though is how well it matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and there is no way for someone else to know this based on theory or specs (yours or the specs of the mattress) that can be more accurate than your own personal testing or experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). Only you can feel what you feel on a mattress or know how it compares to another mattress based on your own perceptions (and these types of comparisons are very subjective and different people can have very different opinions)

If you have done some careful and objective testing on the mattress using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and it’s a good match for you then it would certainly be well worth considering as one of your finalists IMO.

If you haven’t tested the mattress in person then your confidence in the suitability of the mattress based on your conversations with the manufacturer or retailer along with the options you have after a purchase to “fine tune” the mattress or return or exchange the mattress (or individual layers in some cases) if it doesn’t turn out the way you and the manufacturer/retailer hoped it would turn out would likely become a much more important part of the “value” of your purchase.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix , I am getting a 9 inch latex bed weighing close to 90 lbs. Can you tell me if the Prepac- Fremont Series Espresso King 6-Drawer Platform Storage Bed is suitable for a latex bed, I am pretty certain they said the slats are 2 inches apart, but I am not sure about the material that comprises the frame.The manufacture is Prepac and I obtained the details from a Home Depot website. But, I spoke to a HD rep and they calculated slats to be less than 3 inches ,closer to 2’:

PRODUCT OVERVIEW

Enjoy floor space and storage with the King Mate’s Platform Storage Bed with 6-Drawers. At 18 in. deep, its six drawers can store any clothing, linens and blankets that go in a traditional chest, without taking up more room in your bedroom. With three drawers on each side, there’s room for everyone’s stuff. Don’t worry about a box spring: the slat support system needs only a mattress. Sleekly designed and practical, this mate’s bed lets you get the most out of your king sized mattress.

Suitable for standard king-sized mattresses
Sturdy drawers with solid wood sides glide on metal runners with built-in safety stops
Finger pulls at the bottom of each drawer front for easy opening
Wood slats positioned length-wise distribute body weight evenly to ensure a good night’s sleep
Finished in durable rich espresso laminate
Constructed from CARB-compliant, laminated composite woods
Ships ready to assemble, includes an instruction booklet for easy assembly and has a 5-year manufacturer’s limited warranty on parts
Assembled dimensions: 78.5 in. W x 18.75 in. H x 81.5 in. D
Internal drawer dimensions: 23.25 in. W x 5 in. H x 18 in. D

Thanks very much,

Hi Mattress,

I’m not familiar with the bed you are considering and I can’t see the details of its construction so I don’t know how strong it is, the type of center support, or the amount of flex in the slats. Normally if the slats are width wise then if they are 2" apart then the distance between them would be fine but it says that they are length wise so that’s a very long span and I would want to know how they were supported.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix, any issues of buying a latex mattress with a Polyfoam base, I have allergies to dust and mold. Also, if there is no problem am I still looking for HR 2.5 lbs/cubic feet or higher? And what is the max amount of inches to consider for the polyfoam base, should I only be looking for 2 inches and no more for the base? By the way when did it become so confusing when using the terms organic or natural, I have to drill retailers and even when they say 100 percent natural , I find there is a blend of some sort. Am I right in assuming Soy and Bio foam are not organic, I mean pure?

Thanks.

Hi Mattress,

You can see my comments about an all latex mattress vs a latex/polyfoam hybrid in post #2 here. They can be a good choice for someone in a lower budget range where an all latex mattress isn’t possible.

There is more about dust mite allergies and a link to more information about mattress encasements in post #2 here.

There is no lower or upper “limit” as long as the materials are good quality and suitable for your weight, budget, and your needs and preferences in terms of PPP. If the mattress is suitable for you in terms of PPP and the materials are good quality and the mattress is the best match for the parts of your personal value equation that are important to you compared to your other finalists then the thickness of the layers and components would be “right” for you.

Soy foam and Bio foam are just versions of polyfoam that have replaced a small portion of one of the two main chemicals used to make it (the polyols) with a soy or plant oil based derivative (see post #2 here). While it may be a small step in the direction of using more renewable and sustainable materials … there isn’t any polyfoam (regardless of whether some of the polyols are plant oil based) which is either natural or organic since most of the chemicals used to make polyfoam are petrochemicals.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix, so I called and visited several stores from the Factory Direct list. I find idealmattress too expensive for me, $3500-$3700 for a Talalay 10 inch mattress, I also found out their warranty is pro-rated. I called some others and I found two from your list that have great values, but they both said that they use glue on the different layers of latex, is that something that is common, does the glue now make it not such a great value, is the glue going to be harmful for me regardless of my allergies. Secondly, a second factory direct location gave great value , again from your list, but when I asked how they keep the layers of latex together, he said they use a light stapler, again should I avoid this mattress because the latex layers are stapled. Also, why do other places like Dormio not glue their latex mattresses, are the glued mattress poor quality even though the retailer said its 100 percent natural. Lastly, one of the factory guys on your list advised me that no latex mattress is ever 100 percent chemical free , he advised the best that could be offered is 70 percent pure and 30 percent chemical, is that true, can places like Dormio provided 100 percent chemical free latex mattresses or am I being fed a line, this factory direct manager is offering great value for the latex mattress I am interested in, 10 inches of talalay. The list that you provided is so helpful, I have to say if you think the glue and staple are not such a health hazard their quoted value is amazing, and if I purchase from them, I will certainly include their name and prices, for others to benefit from. Waiting for your thoughts, truly their quotes are of great , I know because I have talked to and visited several locations from the Factory Direct list.

Thanks.

Hi Mattress,

I don’t know what size you are looking at or what is included in the purchase but this would be in a fairly high budget range for a 10" Talalay latex mattress.

[quote]I called some others and I found two from your list that have great values, but they both said that they use glue on the different layers of latex, is that something that is common, does the glue now make it not such a great value, is the glue going to be harmful for me regardless of my allergies.

Also, why do other places like Dormio not glue their latex mattresses, are the glued mattress poor quality even though the retailer said its 100 percent natural.[/quote]

You can see my thoughts about glued vs loose layers (in a zip cover) in post #2 here and post #15 here. If the glue is water based and not solvent based then it would be fine for most people and glue is certainly not an indication of a poor quality mattress.

This would depend on what they mean by “stapling” and what layers are stapled to which other layers or components. Some innerspring mattresses for example use a type of stapling called “hog rings” to attach the upper layers to the innerspring and other mattresses use a type of staple that spreads out or splays into the foam on the sides to attach different materials or components such as a pillow top to the rest of the mattress so the layers and components don’t shift in use so these would both be preferable than not attaching some materials or components to the rest of the mattress.

It’s partly true and partly misinformation. It’s true that latex foam doesn’t only contain latex (see post #7 here) so even a latex core that was “100% natural latex” would have other substances that were necessary to make the foam but all the latex would be natural rather than synthetic. On the other hand … there are many versions of latex where the natural rubber content of the final core is 95% or higher.

No latex … even organic latex … is 100% chemical free (you can read about the organic certifications for latex here) but all the latex you are likely to encounter would have been certified by either Oeko-Tex or Eco-Institute so it would be “safe” by any reasonable standards. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here. It would be more accurate to say that it was free of any harmful chemicals or substances but there are some chemicals in every foam material although there is a great deal less of them in 100% natural latex than other foam materials (unless you consider the “chemicals” that are in the latex itself that the tree produces or that are in any natural material).

“Chemicals” are not the issue since almost everything is a chemical (even water). The real issue is whether any chemicals are harmful.

Hope this helps

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix, thanks for your responses and the additional posts that I just read. The $3500 was for a king size mattress with box and metal frame.So if I buy a finished latex mattress (glued layers) vs a zip cover, and for what ever reason I don’t like the feel of the layers, am I then out of luck? Thanks, the posts were very helpful. One of my friends just asked me, how much does this guy Phoenix charge you for his responses, so I told him, and he responded with “Wow, that’s rare these days>” Indeed it is, thanks again.

Hi Phoenix, thanks for your responses and the additional posts that I just read. The $3500 was for a king size mattress with box and metal frame.So if I buy a finished latex mattress (glued layers) vs a zip cover, and for what ever reason I don’t like the feel of the layers, am I then out of luck? Thanks, the posts were very helpful. One of my friends just asked me, how much does this guy Phoenix charge you for his responses, so I told him, and he responded with “Wow, that’s rare these days” Indeed it is, thanks again.

Hi Mattress,

That depends on the return or exchange policies of the store or merchant you are buying from and the costs involved.

If they have a return or exchange policy then you would still be able to choose another mattress out of the remaining choices they have available. In some cases a local manufacturer may also be able to open up the mattress and replace individual layers and then close it up again at a low or minimal cost as part of the service they provide to their customers.

If the mattress is too firm then you would still have the option of adding a mattress pad or topper to fine tune the mattress and add additional comfort/pressure relief…

If the mattress is too soft and doesn’t provide you with good support/alignment and you don’t have any options to exchange or return the mattress then you would be in a much more difficult position because there aren’t any great options to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer without removing and/or replacing the layers that are too soft (rather than adding layers on top of them).

In most cases … exchange or return policies are built into the cost of a mattress so that the people who don’t return or exchange a mattress pay for the ones who do so some people would rather pay less for a mattress if they are confident that it’s a good match in terms of PPP and is a good quality and durable choice than have a good return or exchange policy that they are confident they won’t need.

When you are making “value” comparisons I would compare “mattress only” to “mattress only” because the extras that are included in a purchase can lead to comparisons that can be distorted.

The most important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase is your confidence in how well a mattress matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP. No matter what the cost or value of a mattress in terms of the raw materials and components … if it isn’t suitable for you to sleep on then it would have little value to you.

The next most important part of a mattress purchase is the type and quality of the materials and whether there are any weak links in the design in terms of durability (see post #4 here). In this case … if all the materials are latex … then there would be no weak links in terms of quality and durability.

If there are lower quality materials in a mattress or an obvious weak link in the design then there would also be little value in a mattress purchase that was “perfect” at first but where lower quality and less durable materials softened, compressed, or began to break down prematurely which can result in the loss of its comfort or support and the need to replace the mattress long before you would have hoped for or where the price you paid would have made a shorter useful life “worth it” (the loss of comfort and support isn’t covered by a warranty).

After PPP and the type and quality/durability of the materials … then how a mattress compares to your other “finalists” based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you (including price) would also be important parts of the “value” of your purchase.

When you look back on a mattress purchase at the end of its useful life (hopefully in a decade or more down the road) … the thing you will remember most is how well you slept on the mattress and for how long you slept well before you crossed the “fuzzy line” into “tolerating” the mattress more than sleeping well on it (and eventually decided to replace the mattress). Relatively small differences in the cost per year of “sleeping well” will be much less significant.

Of course the price you pay and how a mattress compares to the other finalists that are available to you either locally or online (if you are comfortable considering an online purchase) in terms of cost or materials are always important parts of the “value” of a purchase as well and I wouldn’t knowingly pay more for a mattress than I needed to when another option that was “similar” in terms of the materials, PPP, and all the other ways that are important to you was also a good choice at a significantly lower price but price is only one part of the “value” of a purchase and in some cases (or for some people) may not be the most important part.

Once you are down to final choices that are comparisons between “good and good” and there are no “bad choices” or “weak links” in any of them then which one is “best or you” really depends on the criteria that are most important to you and the other finalists that you are comparing it to.

Phoenix

Thanks again, I will wait until next week when I visit the stores, and I definitely will find out more about their return/exchange policy for the complete mattresses.

Take care.

Hi Phoenix, I am going to see a retailer tomorrow for a great value latex mattress, can you please tell why do some retailers glue their layers together, is there some cost advantage to it, does it have something to do with poor quality quilt cover ? I read the post on glue vs zipper, but I do not believe the reason as to why they glue the latex layers in a mattress was provided.

Thanks.

Hi Mattress,

I’m not sure which post you read but post #2 here and the post it links to talks about the pros and cons of glued vs loose layers.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix , so I bit the bullet and bought a king size latex mattress ($1000) . I bought it from the Factory Direct location on your list that you had provided: New Dawn Mattress,500 Keele Street, Suite 304,Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M6N 3C9, (416) 595-0001. I dealt with a lady by the name of “Sheeba”. I arrive there as they had customized my mattress for me, it was 100 % Talalay latex, 2" latex soft, 2" latex soft to medium, and 5" medium to firm. I did buy a complete mattress, but when I was there I asked them to open it and they gladly did, so I was able to see the different layers of latex and touch them. I also bought a platform bed from them ($400), plus delivery, it came up to $1722.00. By now I knew the pros and cons of complete vs loose layered latex mattress, and I decided to save some money and risk it and go with glued layers. The quilt was made of 70% Aloe Vera and 30 % Cotton, I really did not pay attention to the quilt until after the sale, so I am not sure about Aloe Vera, the quilt felt like cotton and it was strechy to the touch. What are your thoughts on the quilt ? Thank you. I had visited and called several places prior to finding this location.

Sorry Phoenix, I forgot it is a two sided mattress , how does that work if I sleep on the firm side, will the softer latex on the base deteriorate over time ?