Need some help with my DIY latex mattress

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Following careful deliberation, I’ve decided to begin my project with a 6" Dunlop core. The one I’ve got my eye on is here: BRAND NEW NATURAL ORGANIC LATEX MATTRESS TOPPER 6" DUNLOP PROCESS. The seller tells me that the core is certified organic by GOLS and the USDA, and while I have no logical reason to question the veracity of their claim, I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around the ridiculously low price. Is it a stroke of luck that I came across this listing, or should I be cynical? Does anyone have experience with this particular seller?

Onto ILDs! This is where I’m stumped. I want a dense, supportive core that won’t give too much beneath me + comfort layers (me: approx. 170 lbs., 5’6"), but isn’t rock hard. I haven’t had the opportunity to test high ILD Dunlop, so I need some input. My choices are: MEDIUM FIRM 28-33 (4.98pcf ), FIRM 34-38 (5.30pcf), EXTRA FIRM 39-44 (5.61pcf), X-EXTRA FIRM 45-49 (5.92pcf).

I’ll be placing a 3" wool topper over the core, and there’s always the possibility of adding softer latex layers between the wool topper and core if needed. I have a 1.5" convoluted talalay latex topper (ILD of approximately 24) at my disposal, as well.

More questions!

I’m thinking of going with this mattress cover: Full Bamboo - Wool Zippered Mattress Cover. Should I get a cover that has extra room for additional layers? Or should I get the 6" height and plan on purchasing separate covers for any toppers I might decide to add later on? I don’t know if layering raw latex will decrease its longevity…which is the only reason I question getting a cover with extra space.

Now, about a foundation. I don’t have a heck of a lot of moola to spend up-front on this project, plus, I’m staying with family temporarily, have very limited space, and the most convenient thing for me at this time is to toss the mattress on the floor. I don’t want to inhibit the mattress’s breathability, however, so I’m thinking of placing a bed rug beneath it: Bed Rug. If I end up staying here for a year, will the mattress get sufficient airflow on top of the bed rug? I’ll use the rug on my platform bed after I’ve moved and have access to all the stuff that’s currently in storage.

Many thanks to anyone able to offer assistance! :slight_smile:

2

I normally post the standard note to make sure you’ve read Phoenix’s post on how to select a mattress that’s right for you.

https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first

If you’re going to make a DIY mattress, it’s least risky to start with a mattress you already like and matches your PPP, and try to duplicate it. Phoenix has tended to warn people about doing a DIY mattress, as it will require some experimentation, and may end up being more costly than getting a pre built mattress. If you’re doing a DIY because you enjoy it, or want to experiment, then go for it.

From my personal perspective, I have both a Dunlop mattress and a 3" wool topper, and I can say that a 6" core of 4.98 pcf (about 80 kg per m3) (the softest you identified that is available) with a 3" wool topper on it would be incredibly too firm for me. I’m male, 5’9"’ about 185 lbs.

My top layer is 3" of wool, below which is 6" of 65 kg per m3 (about 4.05 pcf) soft Dunlop, below which is a firm 3" Dunlop base, and even that I find potentially slightly too firm for ‘perfect’ pressure relief, although my posture/alignment seems fairly good.

3

Hi nej,

I would question whether this was the organic version of the Latex Green cores because the densities and ILD ranges they are posting don’t agree with the range of latex specs in their organic line (they are the specs and densities for the Latex Green 100% natural line).

Outside of dn’s great comments … if you are planning to build a DIY mattress (as opposed to a kit where you are buying a complete mattress with exchangeable layers) I would first read post #15 here and post #2 here so that you have realistic expectations of success and as dn mentioned what you learn along the way (with your testing and experimentation with different layering combinations) is just as important as any potential cost savings (which may not happen).

As dn also mentioned and I would echo … I would use a mattress design that you have tested in person or a successful design that is suggested by an online manufacturer based on “averages” and then duplicate it to the best of your ability using the same type and blend and ILD of latex in each layer and the same or a very similar cover.

The more familiar you are with different latex combinations in terms of PPP … the higher your odds of success.

Outside of a bed rug which would be a big improvement compared to the floor … there are several DIY foundations (two foundations and a platform bed) with detailed instructions and a materials list that are linked in the foundation post here that were quite inexpensive to build.

Phoenix

4

Hi nej,

I am also in the middle of my DIY latex mattress building experiment. I would be really surprised if the seller you mentioned provides you with certified organic dunlop. I purchased from one of their competitors and can’t find any “proof” that what I received is organic. (I went into this purchase skeptical about the “organic” part, and it wasn’t a deal-breaker for me.) I was enticed by the low price! We walked out of a showroom without purchasing a VERY COMFORTABLE bed, because I thought I could save $500 by approximating the specs and buying online. Not the case…

Here’s what happened: we bought the 6" organic (didn’t turn out to be organic, as far as I can tell) MED-FIRM core (split into 2 XL twins) and a 3" soft topper. The bed is very uncomfortable for me and I have moved to our old guest bed :S Upon further examining the specs, it appears that our core is FIRM and our topper is closer to MED.

About me: 5’6", 140#, side sleeper. I wake up with mid-back discomfort and soreness down my IT band (outer thigh).

So now we are attempting to add a truly soft topper (making our bed taller and more expensive), without a “template” to guide our purchase. I will be visiting showrooms on Thursday, but it will be a guess, at best.

At just below $2K for a 9" Eastern King with a quilted cover (SleepEZ), I think I would have come out ahead financially. And I would have been spared the time sorting all this out. But, on the bright side, I enjoy doing research and I’m convinced that I will end up loving my DIY bed in the end. (My husband already loves it. He’s 6’4", 170#, and a back sleeper. He is having a bit of fun teasing me, though :pinch: )

5

I so wish I could try a dunlop core mattress, but no one in my area sells them. The closest I’ve lain on is all talalay (19 ILD topper over a 32 ILD core), which felt like floating in the ocean with a thin membrane separating me from a watery grave. I felt like any hint of movement would break the membrane, sending me straight to the bottom of the bed. Not a pleasurable experience!

The way I look at it, if I were considering an innerspring mattress I would choose a firm one (for good support) and then go to work on constructing a comfort layer. I agree with you, the wool topper alone will be inadequate. I’m now thinking of putting a layer of talalay between the wool and the core. What kind of talalay is up for debate. I was thinking of something in the 24-27 range, until I discovered that Flobeds has a shredded talalay topper: Natural Talalay Twice Fluffed Mattress Topper. I wonder if this topper over the wool topper (or under it) would provide the comfort and cushioning I need. I would kill for a plushy, pillowy mattress that doesn’t give out under my lower back. Shredded talalay/wool/firm dunlop core…might be the answer to my prayers?

6

Good call on the incongruent specs! I confronted them about that and they confessed to not realizing there were different ILD ranges for the organic line. They did eventually provide me with the correct specs, so now I’m feeling more inclined to believe that it’s the genuine article.

Thanks for all the informative links! I’m almost ready to give up and buy a mattress from Sleepez…I just want to be certain that I’m getting the best configuration for my specific needs and not surrendering prematurely out of frustration.

Oh dear. Construction projects usually end in tears and bodily injury, but I’ll definitely look into the DIY foundations. Never say never!

Feel free to comment on my newest idea for a shredded talalay/wool/dunlop core mattress mentioned above :slight_smile: And thanks for all the feedback!

7

If it’s any consolation, it’s been my experience that the showroom mattress is always softer and comfier than what you actually get. Maybe you would’ve been dissatisfied with that mattress after all.

This isn’t foambymail, by any chance? I’ve read a lot of similar complaints about their huge variation in ILDs.

I hope it all works out in the end! I bet it will. All that research has to pay off at some point.

I’m currently considering Sleepez’s November special (the 8" mattress) as an alternative to my DIY mattress. I was hoping to build my dream bed and save $$ at the same time, but at some point I may break down and spend the extra cash for the opportunity to swap out layers.

Yes! Research is fun! :cheer: I feel like I’m learning more than I ever wanted to know about latex…and after finally putting this mattress project to bed (couldn’t resist!), I’ll probably never want to discuss latex beds again :stuck_out_tongue:

8

If you post your city/area or zip code, sometimes Phoenix knows some options in the area- there’s a chance he knows somewhere you could try Dunlop latex.

9

@dn:

I forgot that your 6" soft latex was on top of a 3" firm core. That’s very interesting. No wonder mine is too firm! (3" med dunlop over 6" firm dunlop).

@nej:

We purchased from sleeponlatex.com (aka hahtauctions on ebay). Karl was very nice and sold us what appears to be 100% natural dunlop. I don’t see it listed anywhere (on foam or packaging) as ORGANIC. The issue for me is that we purchased what was described as 3" of SOFT + 6" of MED-FIRM. Karl said that this configuration should work well for me, based on my weight and sleeping preference (140#, side sleeper). In reality, our foam is closer to MED (topper) over FIRM. I trusted his expertise. He’s been selling these for over 5 years and said no one had complained about this density/firmness. In our case, these layers are NOT returnable or exchangeable. We knew that going into the purchase, but I was confident that we were making a good choice (low-risk, high-value). In chatting on this forum, I have learned that the specs we ordered were very likely to be TOO FIRM for me.

Karl also told me that the above density options were all that Latex Green offered in 100% natural dunlop. This increased my confidence that we were getting a VERY CLOSE approximation to the bed we tried in the Seattle showroom. Wrong! I have since found out that this isn’t accurate. Latex Green does sell other ILDs. But, according to Karl, these are HIS only options. He has offered us an additional topper (blended) at a reduced price, but we are wanting to stick with 100% natural based on chemical sensitivities. Side note: I wish I could try Talalay, but samples have caused an (almost) immediate allergic reaction. Anyone else experience this?

I just posted our 6" firm core on craigslist (Seattle), to my husband’s dismay :huh: As I mentioned, he loves our bed! (170#, back sleeper) So we’re dealing with two different styles and sleeping preferences. More evidence that going with a split king would have been wise!

Re: the SleepEZ “special”. Initially, I never considered it because I assumed that the cover was flimsy and synthetic. But I just found out that someone I know has bought TWO of these and loves the cover. I considered buying the ORGANIC 10,000 with the quilted wool. But now, knowing that my sweetheart prefers to sleep closer to latex, that cover seems pretty nice. (It retails in king size for $160. So the "
“special” price is pretty good, compared to buying components separately. Plus, I think I have to pay $45 shipping when buying the cover ala cart.)

Anyone near Seattle want a 6" FIRM core? Split E King (2 XL twins). I’ll make you a deal :wink:

P.S. How do I create those grey shaded boxes in my replies???

10

[quote=“buttercupbetty” post=27091]
I just posted our 6" firm core on craigslist (Seattle), to my husband’s dismay :huh: As I mentioned, he loves our bed! (170#, back sleeper) So we’re dealing with two different styles and sleeping preferences. More evidence that going with a split king would have been wise![/quote]
For what it’s worth, knowing what he likes is pretty valuable. It’ll be easy to duplicate, if nothing else. Provide the Dunlop density and thicknesses to the new company.

Also, if you are continuing down DIY, you might only need to buy latex for your side. I.e. Keep 1 firm 6" core. Cut the medium latex in half. Leave half on top of firm for your husband. Drop the other half to be the base for your side, and get 6" (2x 3" twinxl plates) of softer for your side and layer on top of the medium- either Dunlop or talalay as you prefer. 1 split king. You’d want to cut the latex the best you could since you’d be using both halfs still. I’d ask Phoenix how to do that (I seem to remember him saying using a electric knife). You’re only out 1 6" twinxl core then (and husband stays happy).

Bonus points if you cover the entire king sleeping surface with a 1/2" soft foam, or goto shepards dream and a couple yards of raw wool batting and put over latex in mattress case, or have a mattress case that does this already with wool or cotton, or otherwise add a small layer of material / mattress pad on top to hide the firmness seam between his side and yours (not critical, but found on some beds).

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mike7, I’m anxiously awaiting your feedback on mattress protectors! Let me know which one you pick, ok?

12

@buttercupbetty,

Just making sure you saw my reply to you in post 10 above. You may have been posting at the same time I was and missed it

13

dn, you’re a genius :cheer:

Your plan makes perfect sense! So husband would keep exactly what he has now. I would have (from bottom to top) 3" med + 3" soft + 3" soft. My question is how soft? I asked Shawn at SleepEZ about “extra soft” and he said that it is a special order. They used to carry it, but had longevity issues. I believe that their SOFT is 20-22 ILD. You said that your two soft layers are 65D. Would that translate to EXTRA SOFT?

Finishing our “bed makeover”: we could then wrap entire 9" of latex in a quilted wool cover. OR add a thin layer of latex topper to hid the seam and wrap in a non-quilted cover…GREAT IDEA!

@phoenix:

Can you post a link on how to best cut latex?

14

@dn

LOL! I got shut out by some “flooding filter”. I guess I was posting too fast :silly:

15

Hey dn,

Any chance that your plan might be too soft for me?

What about cutting the MED topper in half and using it as my middle layer? Creating a 3" firm + 3" med + 3" soft? According to SleepEZ, this is the combo that works for 85% of people…

Sigh. I’m a bit nervous to order online!

Hey, I guess to “play it safe” I could order one layer at a time. Start with 3" of SOFT on top of existing mattress (bringing it to 12"). This would approximate a S-M-F construction, right? Then, if that still feels too firm, I would know that my third layer should be SOFT (instead of FIRM).

How does this sound? Then to figure out where to purchase…any suggestions from other DIYers?

16

And another option is to ADD 3" SOFT to my side and 3" MED to his side (split king). This would increase our mattress height from 9"-12". Plus 1.5 topper. Plus 1" cover (if we go with quilted).

Might not be the best aesthetics for our platform bed…I’ll try to visualize.

17

I just wanted to respond quickly to this post. I have corresponded with you (buttercupbetty) and we are both on the same page. I just feel like my words are being a bit mangled here and wanted to clear a few things up.

It is impossible for us to accurately predict from thousands of miles away whether someone will like a particular mattress configuration. Everyone has different needs and preferences. We do make suggestions if asked, but it is impossible for us to accurately predict what will work for everyone. We are always very clear about this. We talk to tons of customers every day who have widely varying needs and preferences. We are also very clear that anyone building their own mattress should build from the bottom layer up so that they can adjust as needed.

I was very clear that I had no way of knowing what foam was being used in the mattress you tried out. While I told you that your description of the foam, sounded like the foam we sell, I told you I had no way of really knowing. I do not think it is fair to hold us responsible for any difference there.

As far as firmness. Firmness classification is always subjective. There is not one uniform scale. It is impossible to classify firmness in a way that everyone will agree with.

As far as what latex green sells… We are not Latex Green. I can not make any representation about what they do, nor would I ever attempt to. I can only tell our customers about the products we sell.

Overall, you have a great mattress which your husband loves (which was one of the objectives when I was giving my opinion). It just needs a little extra work to get it to work for you.

18

Also, just to respond to the original topic here. I think you should notice that the pictures on this listing are of different items. One of the pictures was stolen fromour website.

Almost all of the pictures on this sellers listings have simply been stolen from other websites. They could be selling what they claim they are, but I would be a bit cautious in buying from a seller who who can only provide conflicting pictures of the product which are stolen from other websites.

19

[quote=“buttercupbetty” post=27110]Hey dn,

Any chance that your plan might be too soft for me?

What about cutting the MED topper in half and using it as my middle layer? Creating a 3" firm + 3" med + 3" soft? According to SleepEZ, this is the combo that works for 85% of people…

Sigh. I’m a bit nervous to order online!

Hey, I guess to “play it safe” I could order one layer at a time. Start with 3" of SOFT on top of existing mattress (bringing it to 12"). This would approximate a S-M-F construction, right? Then, if that still feels too firm, I would know that my third layer should be SOFT (instead of FIRM).

How does this sound? Then to figure out where to purchase…any suggestions from other DIYers?[/quote]

Yes there is risk it’s too soft. Unfortunately, you’re doing trial and error without a pre-built template you’re working from. And the words various vendors use to describe latex are subjective, which is why I’ve provided density. So green sleep calls 65 kg / m3 soft, but someone else might call it ultra soft, and someone else might call it medium soft.

That said, since you already own the 3" 75D, there’s no financial risk in using it. It’s yours. If you use it as your base layer, what you layer on top of course it the tough question. If it were me, I’d probably do 2x layers of 65D, to simply play the averages. You could also do another 75D middle and 65D top (firmer). Or a 65D middle and try for 55D top (softer, may be hard to find 55D). It’s all risk prone and total guesswork. I’d work on getting your 6" so that your PPP are really close, and then fine tuning the last little bit. I don’t think you need 12" to accomplish a wonderful mattress and quite honestly if you can’t decide on 2 layers to order, I don’t think adding another layer makes it easier.

I wouldn’t think you need to add more height to the 9". Your husband is fine and likes his side. Adding yet more layers really just increases your cost and so far you effectively have nothing to start from.

20

Just thought I’d add a little info from my and my wife’s current latex experience.

We 1st tried 10" 28-30 ILD Dunlop with two-sided cover = too firm for both.

2nd we tried 6" 28-30 ILD Dunlop core with 2" 24 ILD Talalay layer on both sides with 3/4" quiltable latex (very soft) in cover, 2 sided = felt good for both of us.

Most recently, we tried 6" 28-30 ILD Dunlop core with 2" 24 ILD Talalay layer on both sides with 3/8" quiltable latex (very soft) in cover, 2 sided = too firm for wife, borderline for me.

I am 5’ 9 1/2" 168 lbs with a v-shaped torse but skinny legs and small butt. Waist is about 13" wide at narrowest point and hips about 15" wide at widest point. I sleep side and back about 50/50.
My wife is 5’ 4 1/2" 124 lbs with small waist, narrow shoulders, but ample hips and butt. Her waist is 9" wide at narrowest point and hips are 15" wide at widest point. She sleeps side and back about 70/30.

Based on our experience, I would say 6" 28-30 ILD Dunlop core with 3" 24 ILD Talalay layer above is a good starting point for many people.