Need some serious mattress help

[phoenix]

Hi scoittebene,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

I have been reading posts on this website for around a month trying to decide the best mattress for me, and decided it was finally time to make an account and ask some questions.

I’m glad that you took the time here to post. While I can’t pick out a mattress for you (the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendations), I certainly can help with the “how” of picking out a mattress.

Just in case you haven’t read it yet, the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

To start, I am currently looking into Nectar mattress (foam), Brooklyn Bedding (Latex + poly foam core), and Dreamfoam (either one of the latex or the arctic dream), which I know is a sister company to Brooklyn Bedding. I also know these are also vastly different mattresses.

The Nectar uses a 1" of 4 lb gel memory foam, a 3-inch 3.5 lb memory foam with a medical grade cooling and finally a 2.2 lb polyfoam core. They don’t list the thickness of the polyfoam core, or the thickness of the quilted gel memory foam panel or the density of that material. The polyfoam core uses a good density foam, but I would use some caution with the 3" of 3.5 lb. memory foam on top of the core, as that is a bit lower than I would normally recommend. They are a product assembled in the USA of components sourced from China and the US. They do not specific what is from where. I would caution against purchasing this item before knowing the complete specifications and component origins.

The Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever uses a 6" 2 ln polyfoam core, on top of which is a 2" layer of Dunlop latex and then a 2" layer of Talalay latex. The cotton cover is quilted with a thin piece of polyfoam. This mattress is available in three different levels of plushness (soft, medium, firm), where the ILDs of the Dunlop and Talalay are varied (32/32/34 for the Dunlop and 19/28/32 for the Talalay).

You didn’t specify which Arctic Dreams model you’re comparing, but they use 3 lb. Energex high-performance polyfoam in 2"-3" over a conservatively classified 1.55 lb. polyfoam core (specs out to 1.75 lb.). Overall, the Arctic Dreams is a great quality/value choice and you’d be hard pressed to find better quality/density materials in a mattress in this lower budget range.

Both Brooklyn Bedding and Dreamfoam are site members here, which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

First, I am a very hot sleeper. I understand how foam traps heat and locks it in, which would contribute to sleeping hot. However, Nectar’s top layer claims to have a cooling layer, which I can either believe or not

Regarding cooling memory foam claims, you can read more about phase change materials in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here ) and you can read more about the various different types of gel foams in post #2 here . In general terms gel foams will tend to have a temporary effect on temperature while you are first going to sleep until temperatures equalize but have less effect on temperature regulation throughout the course of the night.

Gel and/or other thermal conductive or phase change materials can have “some effect” on the sleeping temperature of a particular material but how much of an effect they will have and how long the effect will last will depend on the specific formulation of the material and on the “combined effect” of all the other materials and components of the sleeping system including your sheets, mattress protector, and bedding.

It’s not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

In very general terms, and regardless of the mattress you choose, the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more “insulating” and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material.

I also know that Nectar is a relatively new brand, without many people having it over a year, so it’s tough to know it’s long term durability.

While Nectar is a “newer” brand, I would focus first and foremost on the materials contained within their mattress, as that will be the most accurate way to determine quality and durability.

I get that theres a lifetime warranty and 365 night sleep trial, so relatively low risk, however, why go through the hassle if it’s not the right mattress.

Warranties in general are not nearly as important to me as knowing the materials within a mattress because the reason most people need to replace a mattress is not a manufacturing defect but the loss of comfort and/or support which is not covered by a warranty. Knowing the materials in a mattress will tell you how long the original qualities of a mattress will last relative to other types of materials, and I think this is something that you already “have a handle on” and understand.

I personally would be happy with a 5 year warranty (against manufacturing defects) if I knew the materials could last me 15 - 20 years … but of course the vast majority of consumers would believe that a mattress with a 5 year warranty was an inferior mattress, and fall into the marketing fallacy of equating a longer warranty with a better product. There is also a good Beducation video about mattress warranties here .

Your point about being able to replace a mattress is also well-taken. A long trial period is mostly unnecessary, in my opinion, as people are usually able to discern if the mattress is a fit for them within a 1-3 month timeframe.

Now, I also understand that latex is less likely to ‘sleep hot.’

All foams are an insulator, and latex, specifically Talalay, is one of the more breathable materials, but it is just one component within a completed mattress, which is then part of a sleeping system (mattress pads, sheets, blankets, pillows) and then part of an overall sleeping environment (ambient temperature and humidity in master bedroom), so there are many variables involved (per links provided above).

I begun searching the internet for latex beds, but my price range is not very high, so 100% latex is kind of not an option. Many have two 3" layers of latex, talalay or dunlop and then a foam base. Brooklyn bedding stuck out simply because of it’s price, replaceable cotton top, and USA made parts. However, some of BB’s reviews on yelp (seems to be the only place where they have negative reviews) preaches about their horrible customer service… Which when buying a bed online, you really need to rely on the ability to honor the 120 nights sleep return policy.

Comments like you mentioned (and review sites in general) are one of the reasons I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you, or as a blanket statement on the policy of a particular company. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful, and reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

In today’s online environment, which is weighted so heavily (and somewhat unfairly) towards negative consumer comments and feedback, even a single “negative” online comment can have a disproportionate effect on the sales or reputation of a business (especially smaller ones - deserved or not) and can negatively impact years of hard work and effort towards building a good reputation. With Brooklyn Bedding being so large, serving tens of thousands of customers, there are many sites where you’ll read many positive and also some negative reviews. And while my advice is in general to not give much attention to online reviews, my experience with Brooklyn Bedding has been such as to point that they go above and beyond with their comfort exchange policies, and I’ve personally been involved in assisting customers of theirs where they’ve been extended terms much longer than their advertised time frame.

I have gone to a lot of mattress stores in my area (Seattle) to try out these types of mattresses, however, since BB and Nectar and Dreamfoam are all online manufacturers, it’s hard to know if they will be similar. When I laid on memory foam mattresses, it was definitely different than the spring beds I’m use to. Felt hard, however it’s definitely something I didn’t mind and could get use to.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). Memory foam definitely has a different feel than traditional polyfoam or latex.

So a big question is whether the Nectar will be on the ‘softer’ side of the memory foam options I laid on, or the harder. Harder memory foam is probably not ideal for my girlfriend, so I’d want the softer side.

Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be able to tell you, based upon your own personal testing or objective mattress specifications, if you’d find a particular product either “firm” or “soft”.

There are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. In other words … the only reliable way to know whether a mattress will be “firm enough” or “soft enough” for you will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

When a memory foam mattress is generally described as “firm” or “soft”, much of that is due to the thickness (or lack of) of the memory foam layer combined with hardness of the polyfoam core. All memory foam is general quite plush (mid-teens ILD), so thinner layers can be “felt through” and more of the “harder” polyfoam core can be felt.

Now the latex bed I laid on I really liked. It had a very similar cotton quilt top as BB, talalay latex, and a poly foam core. However, it was $1800.

Just like with the memory foam comparisons, attempting to find models in-store that best approximate what you’re comparing online will give you the best chance at finding something that is “in the range” of any online mattress. Also, a phone call to any online company you’re attempting to compare to will be assistive, as they’ll best be able to know how their products might compare to items commonly found in brick and mortar stores.

So with ALL that being said… Please help! My price range is between $500-800 for a queen bed. My girlfriend and I are very much on the lighter side (hence why we wouldn’t do well with firmer latex or foam), I’m about 5’8 150 pounds and she is about 5’2 115 pounds.

Posts #1 and #2 in the Simplified Choice thread will list quite a bit of information about many of the mattresses of the type that you are considering. Post #4 here and the posts it links to also include many of the better lower budget online options I’m aware of as well.

I know that is a lot of information that I’ve provided, but I hope that it is assistive to you. I’ll look forward to any comments you have as you move forward in your process after you’ve had a chance to study the material presented…

Phoenix