New latex mattress build, hybrid vs natural, coils vs no components?

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
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After 7 years and past few weeks of intense back pain from a plush-top innerspring Sealy (and a hole/divot where current bedsprings at our hip are), we are starting our search for a new king size mattress. We have been trialling the SleepOnLatex 6" low profile medium mattress twin size in the guest room that we love, but it feels thin for long-term support/sleep. Maybe we are just used to our super thick, plush, broken mattress?

My wife is 170lbs/5’-6", I am 155lbs/5’-6". We are both mostly side sleepers and sometimes back sleepers. We also sleep hot and I dislike how we have to keep shifting to find a cool spot in bed in summer. We also want to consider pregnancy and how that may change or affect the type of mattress we choose. We prefer mattresses on the firm side (medium with SOL seems fine but it’s not “broken in” yet, and we are unsure if we’d prefer firm with a softer topper) but want to avoid shoulder/squishing pains. Our budget for a king size mattress is $1000, hoping not to exceed it for a natural one.

We both have mid-lower back pain frequently and would also like our mattress to have adequate hip support (from our current innerspring hole experience). I am surprised to see that the medium firm 7" hasn’t quite given me that pain the way breaking in other new firm mattresses have.

From our research so far, I have:

  1. A minimum 3" medium latex top (Roma from SleepEZ appears to have flippable medium and firm top but seems thin overall) - Should we go for something thicker to be more durable or meet our/pregnancy needs, or maybe just a down-feather topper for the “plush” feel?

  2. Dunlop appears to be cheaper than Talalay - is a medium dunlop = firm Talalay in general?

  3. Is there a noticeable sleep difference between a 3"+3" or 3"+3"+3" all latex vs hybrid (with coils) mattress in terms of durability and our needs? Does having inner-coils help with anything we mentioned or work against it? The cost difference seems huge too.

Thank you!

2

Hey kivien,

Good to see you back on
the TMU forum :slight_smile: ! Thanks for your question.

Sorry to hear of the durability issues you have had with your plush-top Sealy innerspring mattress; sounds like the pillow top/ comfort layer’s longevity was a little off if you experienced “a hole/ divot” where current bedsprings at your hip are. It’s not unrealistic to want 7 -10 years use out of a mattress, I always think in terms of 8- 10 years as a reasonable expectation for a good mattress to last with any additional time afterwards as a bonus. Mattress durability, in terms of materials, components and construction is a topic of much discussion here on the TMU forum, you can learn more from Phoenix’s article, “Mattress Durability Guidelines”.

[quote]We have been trialling the SleepOnLatex 6" low profile medium mattress twin size in the guest room that we love, but it feels thin for long-term support/sleep. Maybe we are just used to our super thick, plush, broken mattress? My wife is 170lbs/5’-6", I am 155lbs/5’-6". We are both mostly side sleepers and sometimes back sleepers. We also sleep hot and I dislike how we have to keep shifting to find a cool spot in bed in summer. We also want to consider pregnancy and how that may change or affect the type of mattress we choose. We prefer mattresses on the firm side (medium with SOL seems fine but it’s not “broken in” yet, and we are unsure if we’d prefer firm with a softer topper) but want to avoid shoulder/squishing pains. Our budget for a king size mattress is $1000, hoping not to exceed it for a natural one[/quote].
Congrats on your new mattress shopping journey :slight_smile: ! Thanks for your support of trusted member Sleep On Latex, happy to hear you’re enjoying your twin 6" low profile medium mattress. The “feels thin” you describe is likely as you pointed out, due to being “used to your super thick, plush, broken” Sealy mattress, one of which is a much higher profile. In terms of long-term support and durability, despite it’s 6" height, natural latex foam is a far superior product with a longer life expectancy. The “feel” of a mattress is also one part of a complex equation involving both yours and your wifes’ personal preferences. For a deeper dive into these subjects, you may enjoy Phoenix’s articles, “Your Sleeping Style- Personal Preferences and Statistics”, “Mattress Comfort Layers- Latex”, and “Mattress Support Layers- Latex”/

If this is your first experience sleeping on a latex mattress, you undoubtably are noticing one of latex’s most valuable comfort traits in its natural, point elastic, pressure-relieving quality.

[quote]From our research so far, I have:

  1. A minimum 3" medium latex top (Roma from SleepEZ appears to have flippable medium and firm top but seems thin overall) - Should we go for something thicker to be more durable or meet our/pregnancy needs, or maybe just a down-feather topper for the “plush” feel?[/quote]
    The 2-in-1 dual sided mattress topper of the Roma may “seem thin” after coming from your higher profile Sealy mattress; however, you should find 3" or even 2" of latex to be much more comforting/ more plush than you would expect upon first sight. You can experiment with either side of the dual firmness topper to determine which best suites your comfort preferences; durability for either thickness is not a problem here. Expert trusted member Sleep EZ would be happy to consult you on what firmness would best serve your needs now as well as what would transition for your pregnancy needs.

The difference in pricing of Dunlop vs. Talalay lies in the manufacturing process involved. Dunlop latex is produced in either a continuous pour or in a mold involving a five step process, generally having in a “firmer” feel as it results in a more dense latex. Talalay latex is produced only within molds and has a seven step process, producing a more of an open cell structure and resulting in a more “uplifting” feel. In terms of firmness, there is no easily derived equivalent comparison between Dunlop and Talalay as Talalay can be produced in eight different ILDs/ “feels” with Dunlop generally produced in three- four different densities/ “feels”.

Could you please clarify what you mean by “Is there a noticeable sleep difference between a 3”+3" or 3"+3"+3" all latex vs hybrid (with coils) mattress": are you asking whether 2/ 3" comfort layers would provide more durability to a mattress versus 3/ 3" comfort layers? If so, the choice between using 2 layers and 3 layers serves more to change the comfort of the mattress. The main advantage that separate comfort layers offer is the ability to replace them as either your preferences change or to extend the life of the mattress support system.

[quote]Does having inner-coils help with anything we mentioned or work against it? The cost difference seems huge too.
[/quote]
An all-latex bed will be more expensive than a latex hybrid mattress from a material/ component standpoint and perhaps the longest-lasting from a durability standpoint. That said, there are some really good values out there in latex hybrid mattresses offering the same comfort qualities of latex, along with a lower price point. In the end, the choice of latex over pocketed coils vs. all-latex support core is again one of personal preference that your manufacturer can guide you through.

Looking forward to hearing more about next steps and good luck :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

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Thank you Sensei! It’s been very informative reading further into the mattress comfort layers and support layers!

In researching mattresses within our budget, it was surprising how different the prices are for the same components across companies - generally a 6" latex base + 2"/3" latex topper and sometimes another 2"/3" topper. Do all latex mattresses generally come with a removable zipper cover so components such as the topper can be replaced over time or is this a special request typically? If the bed has 3 different layers (e.g a 6" firm base, a 3" medium support layer, and a 3" medium/soft comfort layer) - how important is the middle layer firmness in relation to the base firmness (i.e is there a chart somewhere that “adds” up all the layers to give an estimate of firmness overall)?

While looking at customizable beds - I noticed some companies offer 100% Natural Talalay at the same price as 100% Natural Dunlop (e.g flexus), while others have Talalay as more expensive (e.g latex mattress factory). Is the Natural Talalay inherently more durable and would provide a more “plush” feeling at a Medium (28 ILD) compared to a Medium (28 ILD) Natural Dunlop? I also noticed most of the companies use a 6" Natural Dunlop as the base as a default option - is there a reason why Talalay is not used as the base more often?

I asked a manufacturer from this site if their default natural latex mattress was flippable and they said no. What I don’t understand is - if it is a 6" dunlop core base with 2" topper - why would you not be able to sleep on the 6" dunlop base side? Is a core base made differently from a topper aside from the thickness of it? During my previous search of a low-profile twin mattress - I had asked them about building my own mattress using their DIY option by just using a 6" dunlop core base with a wool zipper cover as it was cheaper than their default twin bed 6" dunlop latex option, but was told “it’s for the core and it’s different” with no further explanation. So I am very curious…

Thank you!

4

Hey kivien,

Thanks for your reply :slight_smile: .

When shopping for a mattress, it is easy to think of them in terms of a “commodity”; however, many variables go into the pricing structure of a mattress’s components, i.e. costs of sourcing materials, costs of craftsmanship involved, costs of brand marketing and so on. So as much as they may all seem to be similar “plain vanilla”, there remains the nuances of “whole vanilla bean” vs. “vanilla flavoring”, if you will.

“Not necessarily” is the response to either of these questions. Removable zippered covers have become more of the norm with the advent of compressed bed/ BiB mattresses, making their use more popular. A zippered cover allows the consumer to rearrange layers and “adjust” comfort to individual preference, as well as replace layers as needed over time, increasing the overall life of the mattress. Not all latex mattresses offer zippered covers as an option, however; it would depend on the type construction of the mattress as a whole as some are not designed with rearrangeable components in the construction.

In your equation of 6" + 3" + 3", the middle 3" medium “transition” support layer over the 6" firm base would be more/ less significant in relation to the base firmness depending on the topmost comfort layer thickness. If it’s thickness is in the 1" inch range, you would more likely experience feeling the layers below more directly than you would at a 2" or 3" thickness. As you are considering a 3" comfort layer, that shouldn’t be a concern. It would be nice if there were a universal firmness comparison chart out there, but as Dunlop and Talalay latex each have different gauges of how firmness is measured (Dunlop by weight/ density, Talalay by compression/ ILD) and even within those guidelines, other variances make an absolute “universal” firmness measurement difficult to guarantee. You’ll find that reputable manufacturers offer “firmness” indicators of different kinds on their websites in the form of “firmness range” or a series of questions about consumer preferences in an attempt to help shoppers with the decision process.

While I cannot address differences in the pricing of manufacturers’ latex components, I can suggest you ask them directly if that is a concern of yours. Generally speaking, Talalay latex will be more expensive than Dunlop latex due to the more complex manufacturing process and the type product it yields. Talalay latex in any form will inherently feel more “plush” and “springy/ bouncy” than the more dense, heavier Dunlop latex would feel. You can learn more about the differences of these two foams in Phoenix’s article, “Latex: Pros and Cons”. Either one performs well as both comfort and support layers and has excellent durability over time.

As Talalay is the more expensive of the two foams and while all-Talalay mattresses are available, the costs of having a premium foam as a base layer adds a significant price increase to the cost of the mattress.

Technically speaking kivien, you could sleep on the 6" dunlop core side. Without knowing which manufacturer/ what mattress you speak of, my guess is that the key here isn’t the dunlop base itself but likely the cover construction. Many of the uni-directional designed, compressed foam mattresses use a cover whose construction features on the bottom a mesh fabrication with a surrounding zipper. The mesh allows for air circulation and helps the mattress breathe, and the zipper offers future replacement of the mattress cover if needed. While you could sleep on this side of the mattress, you would likely feel the difference in the cover’s fabrication; unless you chose to put the topper over it (assuming the topper is in a separate cover), in that case you wouldn’t feel the difference.

Without knowing which manufacturer/ what mattress/ components you speak of, your question here is more of a “riddle” at this point…we can chat more on DIY Q’s if you have details to share…

Looking forward to hearing more on your research process and thanks for your updates :wink: .

Sensei