Phoenix,
Thanks as always for such in-depth responses!
So, with the 36 ILD Norwalk mattress, I certainly went on the bottom-up theory. Does it sound like I overshot the mark on the 4.75 pound density w/ 16-18 IFD 3 inch Dunlop topper? I realize my perception of my hips not ‘floating’ is just my awareness of my shoulder position in relation to my hips. But it does feel like my rear end dips just a little bit below the ideal on this configuration, though clearly it’s also firm for my shoulders. I’m not sure what issue this would be most indicative of, and therefor I’m unsure what’s the best next step to make.
There are several things to look at when you are deciding on a “next step” with a configuration for a sleeping system.
The first of these is to know the difference between what you “need” and what you “prefer” or what something “feels like”…
Needs are the most important part of a sleeping system while “preferences” or what something “feels like” are usually less important.
The basic “needs” are pressure relief and alignment and both of these have “symptoms” attached to them rather than something that only “feels like” something is not quite right (such as your pelvis or hips sinking in too deeply or not deeply enough). When you have no symptoms on a mattress or sleeping system then it’s often the case that you will adjust to a different “feel” that is different from what you had before and from what you “remember” as being familiar.
The “symptoms” of being out of alignment are typically back pain or discomfort.
The symptoms of pressure issues are typically numbness and limbs tingling or falling asleep.
These are often interconnected so it involves some intuition, guesswork, or experimentation to decide for example whether the shoulders need to be “allowed” to sink in more or whether the pelvis/hips need to be “stopped” a little more quickly. In other words both lifting your lower body up or allowing your upper body to sink in a little more can both lead to improved alignment if you are not sinking in to the mattress evenly. In some cases with more difficult body shapes you may need more finely tuned zoned support directly under a “problem area”.
Because most people are not able to discern exactly how deeply each part of the body is sinking in or if it’s deep enough or too much … when it “feels like” your pelvis is sinking in too far this may not be the case at all and may be more connected to your shoulders not sinking in enough or it may even be you are in good alignment and good alignment just feels “different” than you are used to. If your pelvis was sinking down too far you would experience “symptoms” that are typically related to back aches or discomfort.
The shoulders are much lighter than the pelvis but they also have less surface area so they will tend to sink in more easily for side sleepers until they sink in enough for the torso to take up the weight. The pelvis has a larger surface area and will keep sinking down because the surface area doesn’t change as much when you sink in deeper. If the upper layers are too firm to “allow” the shoulders to sink in enough so that the torso begins to take up the weight then you will not only be out of alignment (the upper body isn’t sinking in enough) you may also feel pressure on your shoulders or discomfort in your mid or upper back. Pillows can also play a role in upper body issues or shoulder pressure (the head can sag too far and increase the pressure on the shoulders if they can’t sink in enough).
Of course I can’t see you on the mattress or feel what you are feeling so I am dependent on the actual “symptoms” you report to make suggestions and what it “feels like” is less useful because this is not related to actual symptoms and is more subjective. To use a food analogy … what something “feels like” is more like the taste of a food and the symptoms (or lack of them) are more about the nutritional content of the food. The taste is great but less important than the nutritional content of the food and tastes can change as we get used to new foods that we didn’t like before.
You are also in a position where you are “outside the averages” because based on your experiences with 7 mattresses it appears that you may have a much narrower range of what works well for you than most people (you are closer to the “princess and the pea” end of the range than the “I can sleep on anything” end of the range) so the more “standard” suggestions that would work well for 90% of people may not be as effective for you because your “range” of what works is much smaller and trial and error and educated guesswork may play a more important role because your actual experience is the only real measure of success.
In this case it’s usually a good idea to take small incremental steps rather than making larger changes.
When I looked through the thread (i normally don’t remember all the details of each person’s experience on the forum so I have to go back and try and remember where you’ve been) it seemed that the split 28 / 19 ILD toper from CSD was working fairly well.
You mentioned earlier …
This indicates to me that this is probably a fairly good “fit” because the only thing you mentioned is that it “feels” a little too stiff and is tilting up your pelvis towards your head which isn’t an issue at all unless there are specific symptoms connected to this. Being “uncomfortable” could well be a matter of getting used to a new “feel” that is different from what you are used to (like the taste of a food that is “good for you” but you don’t like as much).
Your Dunlop topper also appears to be fairly close so it may be a good idea to work with fine tuning it (or the CSD topper) with a “little extra” rather than taking larger steps or replacing either with something new once again only to discover that it doesn’t work well either because it seems that both the CSD topper and the Dunlop topper are fairly close and may just need a little extra to work well.
The CSD topper may just take some getting used to over a longer period of time and the Dunlop topper may need a little more softness/thickness under your shoulders so that they can sink in a little more deeply relative to the pelvis.
Phoenix
PS: Assuming you still have both … it may be worth trying the CSD topper over the Dunlop topper since the CSD was a little to firm under the pelvis while the Dunlop is probably a little to firm under the shoulders and it would be worth trying both of them together just to see what happens.
Well, based on all the above, it sounds like the best bet is to add some quality softness to the top one inch at a time. I’m inclined to work with the Dunlop as I believe my body takes to it better than Talalay. Having tried many versions, at home and in stores, I think I’m just not a Talalay fan. (With one exception: Long’s in NYC sells a very nice one where the top layer has been tufted - the feel of that I love, but I think the more typical flat versions aren’t for me.) However, nothing is being thrown out, not 'til I know I’m happy! (And yes, I have tried the Talalay on the Dunlop.)
So, since the folks over at Foamsouce make toppers in 1 Inch, I guess the question for the morning is which density? I know the cheaper 3lb stuff is too flimsy for my needs, so how best can I decide between:
5.3 lb/ft3 Medium/Soft
4.0 lb/ft3 Medium
The general internet advice suggests going for the higher density, but I figured it’s worth checking.
If their higher density (more durable) memory foam is also softer (and I would talk with them to confirm this and “how” it is softer because there are different types of softness with memory foam) then I’d probably go with the higher density unless any of the other characteristics of either memory foam were more attractive to you (see post #9 here).
Hi again,
I don’t mean to draw this thread out, but as I’ve been doing research on my choices on memory foam toppers, I’ve also been searching for anyone who sells Dunlop layers in its extra-soft range (EXTRA SOFT 16-18 … 4.05pcf (64.9 kg/m3) as described in Post #2) and have come across no leads. I believe I’ve tried completed mattresses that use it as a top layer, just wondering if anyone online sells it as a topper. Curious if anyone has come across it…