Warning: This is a long one!
Why I’m looking for a mattress:
For ages I’ve been waking up in the morning feeling stiff and achy and attributed it to getting older. It finally dawned on me that maybe the problem is my mattress! My current mattress is a nine year old Simmons Beautyrest Entrada Plush, which felt both cushiony and firm for the first several years, but the “plush” stopped being plush a few years ago, at which point I put a 3 inch memory foam topper on the bed. That made it feel softer, but I still woke up stiff and achy. (Basically because it’s so soft I just sink right through it.)
What I’ve looked at:
I started out my mattress search a few months ago thinking that what I wanted was a firm memory foam mattress. I started out looking at the “mainstream” manufacturers, and rather liked the iComfort mattresses, but wasn’t completely sold. After reading this site, I realized that I could probably get a much better quality bed if I kept looking.
For comparison, I then went out and tried out all of the Tempurpedics I could find, and concluded that I liked the Rhapsody Contour the best (or maybe something slightly less firm, but that was the closest). At that time, I thought that gel foam was too “squishy” in comparison to regular memory foam.
However, after trying lots and lots and lots of memory foam beds, I am amazed at how much they vary in how they feel, even between beds that reportedly use the same density of memory foam. I’ve even found that trying the same bed in different stores feels different — because memory foam is so temperature sensitive, what felt good in a warmer room feels too firm in a cooler show room. For instance, my son got a great deal on an Easy Rest Supreme mattress (less than $450) that is 4" of 5# memory foam over 6" of 2# polyfoam, and I would have thought that would be perfect, but when I tried it out at his apartment, it was so firm that I barely sank into it at all. However, his room was also pretty chilly.
After trying a lot of mattresses, I was leaning toward the Original Mattress Factory Serenity firm memory foam. Initially it seemed a good match. I went back several times to lay on it for awhile, and while it initially felt good, I determined that once I fully sank into the comfort layer (after about 20 minutes), my alignment wasn’t bad, but I felt pressure at the hip. (I’m generally a side sleeper.) The comfort layer is 1.5" of 8# memory foam over 2.5" of 5# memory foam (around 12-13 ILD for each layer). Under those layers is 2.4# poly foam that is about 30 ILD.
The OMF Serenity Plush appears to have the same specs, but with some soft foam in the quilting to make it more plush. The extra foam seemed to eliminate the pressure issue, but affected my alignment when I sank in too much. (My hips sank more than my shoulders.) So that definitely wasn’t going to work.
The OMF Serenity Latex mattress was somewhat better in terms of both pressure and alignment, but I missed the “in the bed” feel of the memory foam, and it still didn’t feel “right”.
Then I tried several Dutch Craft mattresses. I found that the beds that I liked best had a 3" layer of soft Talalay latex UNDER either a 2" gel foam layer or 2" of soft poly foam. They had 30-31 ILD polyfoam cores ranging from 1.8# to 2.3#. My favorite is the Dr. J’s Spinal Health Series Serene mattress (made by Dutch Craft), which is a 12" mattress that has has 2" of 4# swirl gel foam (I think it’s a green swirl) over 3" of 19 ILD Talalay latex and a 7" 2.3# soy/polyfoam core that is 30 ILD. My only concern about this mattress is whether it would feel softer over time — right now it’s as soft as I would consider going. Another Dutch Craft mattress, the Paradise Glenwood Springs, had 2" of gel foam over 2" of 5# memory foam (instead of the 3" of Talalay) and a 7" soy/polyfoam core (not sure of the density) and was MUCH too soft.
What I’m Looking For (conclusions from my testing):
As a result of my testing, I’ve now got a pretty good sense of what I need. As a side sleeper who is rather curvy (wide hips), I need a bit thicker comfort layer — I find that I seem to like a comfort layer that is between 4 and 5 inches. But because my hips are also much heavier than my upper body, it needs to be progressive in firmness so that my hips don’t sink sink too much. If all of it is 12-14 ILD (regardless of density), it feels comfortable initially, but becomes less so as I sink in. Four inches has me “bottoming out” on the firmer layer below, while five inches has me sinking in too far.
The layering in the Dutch Craft Dr. J. Serene has a luxuriously soft feel, but with enough padding to keep me from “bottoming out” and enough “spring” to keep me from sinking in too far. I was told by the manufacturer that another mattress that I was considering (the Paradise Eden), which has 2" of soft poly foam in the quilting over 2" 19 ILD Talalay latex, 2" 30 ILD Talalay latex and 5" of 1.8# polyfoam, would get much too soft for me over time and that the gel memory foam/2.3# core would be much better. (I was a little surprised, as I thought the added latex over the core of the “cheaper” bed would give it more durability). Is that because the core is denser, and gel foam holds up better than super soft poly foam?
So basically what I want is gel foam on top, latex in the middle (combined thickness of comfort layers more than 4" with enough “spring” to keep alignment), and a high quality polyfoam core (medium-firm?).
Having determined what I really like, I then explored other alternatives. I’ve done some searching online, and I also paid a visit to Rainbow Bedding down in Sugarcreek, Ohio — an Amish bedding manufacturer that built a custom latex mattress for another member here. I met with the owner Paul Miller, who listened to what I wanted and indicated that they could make a mattress like that — it’s not something they’ve done before, but he thought it sounded intriguing. I would have to make another trip down there on a day when their production folks were there to try out differing layering combination to determine what worked best and to test each combination. It was a very interesting visit! He demonstrated to me how the firmness of the layers underneath the memory foam change how firm the memory foam feels — I was really amazed at how much difference those supporting layers make! I then tried out some of their existing beds. The difference between their “plush” gel memory foam bed (which felt a bit too soft to me) and their firm gel memory foam bed (which felt a bit too firm) was not in the gel foam, but in the density of the core (2.3# polyfoam on the softer bed, and 2.7# on the firmer bed). If I were going with gel memory foam without the latex, I’d go for their “medium” (which would have a 2.4# core). I also got to try one of their latex hybrid beds (which used a 75kg latex — which would be medium) and — while I still like the memory foam — I did like that firmness of latex. (I think the Dunlop also has a bit less “bounce” than the Talalay, which makes me think I might actually prefer the Dunlop.)
By the way, Paul was very curious about The Mattress Underground, as he keeps getting customers who come by saying that they heard about Rainbow Bedding from here. He’s curious as to how he got on the “list” of places to check out, and is incredibly appreciative of the business (but perplexed at how he got so fortunate as to get the free advertising). I don’t know that he’s been on the internet, so he’s never seen the site, and was fascinated when I described how it worked. He definitely appreciates that his work is recognized here and seemed rather humbled by it.
Options I’m Considering:
So at the moment, I think I have four options that I’m considering:
Option 1 - in store semi-locally: Buy the Dutch Craft Dr. J Serene mattress set (mattress and foundation) for $1599 plus tax. Advantages: It’s a “known” entity — I’ve already tried it a couple of times and can go back and try it again before I make a final decision (though I have to drive an hour to do it). The materials are good quality. I really like the folks that run the store (I purchased some other things from them) and like to support their business. They will deliver (for a fee). Has a 20 year warranty. Disadvantages: I really like the feel of this mattress, but I’m concerned about whether it might feel too soft over time. And it’s not returnable. It’s also the most expensive of the options. (The “original sticker” price for this mattress is $2499 — it’s was “marked down” to $2299 — but the owner said I could get it for $1599.) Unknown: I might be able to get them to go a bit lower on the price, since I’ve purchased other furniture from them.
Option 2 - online: Order a 12" Cool Bliss mattress from Plush Beds, which appears to be somewhat similar to the Dr. J Serene but somewhat different proportions and brands of foam. (The Cool Bliss has 3" 4# gel memory foam instead of 2", and the gel appears to have beads rather than a swirl. Under that is 2" of medium firm Dunlop instead of 3" of soft Talalay. There is a 2" airflow layer of convoluted 2.5# poly foam, and then another 5" of 2.5 lb foam.) Advantages: Could charge or finance the purchase, and they do have a 100 Night Free Return policy after 30 days. Shipping and returns are free. Company has an A rating with the BBB. Has a 25 year warranty. Disadvantages: Can’t “try before I buy” though I have a relatively good sense of what I want. Some have complained about the customer service on the sales end. Cost is $1349 for the mattress only. Not sure if the warranty is worth much (since body impressions have to be 1.5".) Unknown: Based on the description of the layers, this would potentially be a bit firmer than the Dr. J mattress, which could make it perfect — or it could be too firm.
Note: myluxurymattress.com seemed like it might be another online option, as they do make a hybrid memory foam/latex bed, but they’re transitioning over to lakemattress.biz now. Their old website no longer works, and the new one isn’t fully functional. While I’ve had some email exchanges with them, I’m a bit nervous about how long this business transition seems to be taking — they seem a bit scattered right now, and it doesn’t give me a lot of confidence.
Option 3 - custom build semi-locally: Have Rainbow Bedding make a custom mattress for me for approximately $1125 (9") to $1275 (12") (mattress only). Advantages: They can build it exactly how I want it, and I would be able to try out the layers before they make it. The owner spent a lot of time with me and is really interested in seeing how it would work out (as it’s not a combination he’s tried before). I really enjoyed working with him. The quality of materials is excellent (they use a 4# blue swirl gel foam, Dunlop latex, and the minimum polyfoam core density would be 2.3), so it should hold up pretty well. The price is good. Paul said when I asked that they could even get a zippered cover and use a minimal amount of adhesive between the layers if I wanted to be able to change them later (something I’m considering, but not necessarily essential — I rather like the covering they use on their existing memory foam mattresses.) They offer a 15 year warranty on their regular memory foam mattresses — and because they stand by the quality of their materials, a 1/2" impression is their standard (as opposed to the 1 1/2" of many other manufacturers.) Disadvantages: No returns. It does involve making another trip or two (about 1.5 hours) to select the layers. Unknowns: If we work with what they have in stock, I would need to go with 3" layers of gel foam and Dunlop latex — I’m not yet sure if we’ll be able to find the right combination with those thicknesses. (While they could special order 2" memory foam or Talalay latex, that might increase the cost. Though I think I may actually prefer the Dunlop.) I suspect that I would need to pay by cash or check (though I don’t know for sure), and I don’t know if they would deliver. (I have a call into Paul about those questions and hope to hear back soon.)
Option 4 - DIY: I could pick up a 2" 4 pound swirl memory gel topper for around $220. I already have three 1 inch 19 ILD Talalay latex toppers that I purchased from Arizona Mattress (I spent around $318 total for those after shipping costs were added in) — I could use those to replicate the 3" 19 ILD talalay in the Dutch Craft mattress. (They feel a bit soft to me, but they might feel different over a firm enough core.) I could get a really good quality HD or HR foam core or a Dunlop latex core online for $300 to $600, depending on which I get and whether I wanted 3" or 6". I could get a bamboo/wool cover for around $200. Advantages: If I got the layers right and am able to use the Talalay toppers that I already have, the cost could be a bit lower than even Rainbow Bedding. I can buy components one at a time to spread out the cost. Disadvantages: If I get it wrong (and that’s a possibility, as I suspect the Talalay I have will be too soft), most places won’t take returns on toppers or components, and it could end up costing me more money, along with the time and stress of figuring out the right combination. I tend to be a bit obsessive when I start a project, so it can either be an incredibly rewarding challenge, or a never-ending quest that eats up far more of my time than is appropriate.
Questions that I have:
• Does my search for progressive layers with latex supporting the memory foam make sense based on my body type and sleep patterns?
• Is there anything I’m missing in my thinking about these options?
• Is my concern that the Dutchcraft mattress might get softer over time a valid concern? (When I talked with Paul Miller at Rainbow Bedding, he said the main comfort issue he’s seen is that people tend to order mattresses on the firm side, expecting them to soften up, and they don’t — but he uses some pretty dense foam in his cores — 2.3# to 2.7# — so perhaps there isn’t that much softening with the denser materials?)
• Would the fact that Plushbeds uses gel foam with "beads" make it feel different or be less durable than the "swirl" gel in the other mattresses? I think I’ve seen in other discussions here that they use good materials, but may not be the best value compared to others, but that may have been more in reference to all latex.
• Would there be a major difference in feel between a 9" mattress and a 12" mattress (if the core were the same density — the only difference being that one has 3" core and the other is 6")?
• Do any of these options look better than the others?
• I have the Smartbase Metal Platform Frame/Foundation from Zinus (marketed as Night Therapy here: http://www.sears.com/night-therapy-deluxe-platform-metal-bed-frame-foundation-queen/p-00835628000P) — will that work with the mattress options that I’m considering? I saw a post on the forum that suggested it should be okay, but it wasn’t for sure.
And for other members — I’ve seen a number of threads that mention the companies I’m considering, but haven’t found many who have actually purchased from them.
• Has anyone tried the PlushBeds 12" Cool Bliss? If so, what is your experience?
• I know there was another member (and possibly more) that had Rainbow Bedding make a custom mattress, but I haven’t seen a report on how that worked out once they got the mattress— anyone have any experience with them to share?
• Has anyone tried the Dr. J beds made by Dutch Craft? (Or had any experience with their beds?)
Thanks in advance for any help!
PS - The regular mattresses that Rainbow Bedding makes are sold by some Amish furniture stores under the name of Monarch Rest. They primarily make innerspring mattresses, and offer one with a replaceable pillow top (which can be made in latex, memory foam, or various densities of poly foam and is attached by velcro to the innerspring base). They offer a couple different two-sided memory foam mattresses that use 5# memory foam and have a 2.7# polyfoam core. And they offer a gel memory foam mattress (the one I’m trying to customize by inserting latex in the middle) that can be made with a soft, medium or firm core. I have a brochure with specs for each mattress if anyone is interested.