Now that I think I know what I want, evaluating the options ...

Warning: This is a long one!

Why I’m looking for a mattress:

For ages I’ve been waking up in the morning feeling stiff and achy and attributed it to getting older. It finally dawned on me that maybe the problem is my mattress! My current mattress is a nine year old Simmons Beautyrest Entrada Plush, which felt both cushiony and firm for the first several years, but the “plush” stopped being plush a few years ago, at which point I put a 3 inch memory foam topper on the bed. That made it feel softer, but I still woke up stiff and achy. (Basically because it’s so soft I just sink right through it.)

What I’ve looked at:

I started out my mattress search a few months ago thinking that what I wanted was a firm memory foam mattress. I started out looking at the “mainstream” manufacturers, and rather liked the iComfort mattresses, but wasn’t completely sold. After reading this site, I realized that I could probably get a much better quality bed if I kept looking.

For comparison, I then went out and tried out all of the Tempurpedics I could find, and concluded that I liked the Rhapsody Contour the best (or maybe something slightly less firm, but that was the closest). At that time, I thought that gel foam was too “squishy” in comparison to regular memory foam.

However, after trying lots and lots and lots of memory foam beds, I am amazed at how much they vary in how they feel, even between beds that reportedly use the same density of memory foam. I’ve even found that trying the same bed in different stores feels different — because memory foam is so temperature sensitive, what felt good in a warmer room feels too firm in a cooler show room. For instance, my son got a great deal on an Easy Rest Supreme mattress (less than $450) that is 4" of 5# memory foam over 6" of 2# polyfoam, and I would have thought that would be perfect, but when I tried it out at his apartment, it was so firm that I barely sank into it at all. However, his room was also pretty chilly.

After trying a lot of mattresses, I was leaning toward the Original Mattress Factory Serenity firm memory foam. Initially it seemed a good match. I went back several times to lay on it for awhile, and while it initially felt good, I determined that once I fully sank into the comfort layer (after about 20 minutes), my alignment wasn’t bad, but I felt pressure at the hip. (I’m generally a side sleeper.) The comfort layer is 1.5" of 8# memory foam over 2.5" of 5# memory foam (around 12-13 ILD for each layer). Under those layers is 2.4# poly foam that is about 30 ILD.

The OMF Serenity Plush appears to have the same specs, but with some soft foam in the quilting to make it more plush. The extra foam seemed to eliminate the pressure issue, but affected my alignment when I sank in too much. (My hips sank more than my shoulders.) So that definitely wasn’t going to work.

The OMF Serenity Latex mattress was somewhat better in terms of both pressure and alignment, but I missed the “in the bed” feel of the memory foam, and it still didn’t feel “right”.

Then I tried several Dutch Craft mattresses. I found that the beds that I liked best had a 3" layer of soft Talalay latex UNDER either a 2" gel foam layer or 2" of soft poly foam. They had 30-31 ILD polyfoam cores ranging from 1.8# to 2.3#. My favorite is the Dr. J’s Spinal Health Series Serene mattress (made by Dutch Craft), which is a 12" mattress that has has 2" of 4# swirl gel foam (I think it’s a green swirl) over 3" of 19 ILD Talalay latex and a 7" 2.3# soy/polyfoam core that is 30 ILD. My only concern about this mattress is whether it would feel softer over time — right now it’s as soft as I would consider going. Another Dutch Craft mattress, the Paradise Glenwood Springs, had 2" of gel foam over 2" of 5# memory foam (instead of the 3" of Talalay) and a 7" soy/polyfoam core (not sure of the density) and was MUCH too soft.

What I’m Looking For (conclusions from my testing):

As a result of my testing, I’ve now got a pretty good sense of what I need. As a side sleeper who is rather curvy (wide hips), I need a bit thicker comfort layer — I find that I seem to like a comfort layer that is between 4 and 5 inches. But because my hips are also much heavier than my upper body, it needs to be progressive in firmness so that my hips don’t sink sink too much. If all of it is 12-14 ILD (regardless of density), it feels comfortable initially, but becomes less so as I sink in. Four inches has me “bottoming out” on the firmer layer below, while five inches has me sinking in too far.

The layering in the Dutch Craft Dr. J. Serene has a luxuriously soft feel, but with enough padding to keep me from “bottoming out” and enough “spring” to keep me from sinking in too far. I was told by the manufacturer that another mattress that I was considering (the Paradise Eden), which has 2" of soft poly foam in the quilting over 2" 19 ILD Talalay latex, 2" 30 ILD Talalay latex and 5" of 1.8# polyfoam, would get much too soft for me over time and that the gel memory foam/2.3# core would be much better. (I was a little surprised, as I thought the added latex over the core of the “cheaper” bed would give it more durability). Is that because the core is denser, and gel foam holds up better than super soft poly foam?

So basically what I want is gel foam on top, latex in the middle (combined thickness of comfort layers more than 4" with enough “spring” to keep alignment), and a high quality polyfoam core (medium-firm?).

Having determined what I really like, I then explored other alternatives. I’ve done some searching online, and I also paid a visit to Rainbow Bedding down in Sugarcreek, Ohio — an Amish bedding manufacturer that built a custom latex mattress for another member here. I met with the owner Paul Miller, who listened to what I wanted and indicated that they could make a mattress like that — it’s not something they’ve done before, but he thought it sounded intriguing. I would have to make another trip down there on a day when their production folks were there to try out differing layering combination to determine what worked best and to test each combination. It was a very interesting visit! He demonstrated to me how the firmness of the layers underneath the memory foam change how firm the memory foam feels — I was really amazed at how much difference those supporting layers make! I then tried out some of their existing beds. The difference between their “plush” gel memory foam bed (which felt a bit too soft to me) and their firm gel memory foam bed (which felt a bit too firm) was not in the gel foam, but in the density of the core (2.3# polyfoam on the softer bed, and 2.7# on the firmer bed). If I were going with gel memory foam without the latex, I’d go for their “medium” (which would have a 2.4# core). I also got to try one of their latex hybrid beds (which used a 75kg latex — which would be medium) and — while I still like the memory foam — I did like that firmness of latex. (I think the Dunlop also has a bit less “bounce” than the Talalay, which makes me think I might actually prefer the Dunlop.)

By the way, Paul was very curious about The Mattress Underground, as he keeps getting customers who come by saying that they heard about Rainbow Bedding from here. He’s curious as to how he got on the “list” of places to check out, and is incredibly appreciative of the business (but perplexed at how he got so fortunate as to get the free advertising). I don’t know that he’s been on the internet, so he’s never seen the site, and was fascinated when I described how it worked. He definitely appreciates that his work is recognized here and seemed rather humbled by it.

Options I’m Considering:

So at the moment, I think I have four options that I’m considering:

Option 1 - in store semi-locally: Buy the Dutch Craft Dr. J Serene mattress set (mattress and foundation) for $1599 plus tax. Advantages: It’s a “known” entity — I’ve already tried it a couple of times and can go back and try it again before I make a final decision (though I have to drive an hour to do it). The materials are good quality. I really like the folks that run the store (I purchased some other things from them) and like to support their business. They will deliver (for a fee). Has a 20 year warranty. Disadvantages: I really like the feel of this mattress, but I’m concerned about whether it might feel too soft over time. And it’s not returnable. It’s also the most expensive of the options. (The “original sticker” price for this mattress is $2499 — it’s was “marked down” to $2299 — but the owner said I could get it for $1599.) Unknown: I might be able to get them to go a bit lower on the price, since I’ve purchased other furniture from them.

Option 2 - online: Order a 12" Cool Bliss mattress from Plush Beds, which appears to be somewhat similar to the Dr. J Serene but somewhat different proportions and brands of foam. (The Cool Bliss has 3" 4# gel memory foam instead of 2", and the gel appears to have beads rather than a swirl. Under that is 2" of medium firm Dunlop instead of 3" of soft Talalay. There is a 2" airflow layer of convoluted 2.5# poly foam, and then another 5" of 2.5 lb foam.) Advantages: Could charge or finance the purchase, and they do have a 100 Night Free Return policy after 30 days. Shipping and returns are free. Company has an A rating with the BBB. Has a 25 year warranty. Disadvantages: Can’t “try before I buy” though I have a relatively good sense of what I want. Some have complained about the customer service on the sales end. Cost is $1349 for the mattress only. Not sure if the warranty is worth much (since body impressions have to be 1.5".) Unknown: Based on the description of the layers, this would potentially be a bit firmer than the Dr. J mattress, which could make it perfect — or it could be too firm.

Note: myluxurymattress.com seemed like it might be another online option, as they do make a hybrid memory foam/latex bed, but they’re transitioning over to lakemattress.biz now. Their old website no longer works, and the new one isn’t fully functional. While I’ve had some email exchanges with them, I’m a bit nervous about how long this business transition seems to be taking — they seem a bit scattered right now, and it doesn’t give me a lot of confidence.

Option 3 - custom build semi-locally: Have Rainbow Bedding make a custom mattress for me for approximately $1125 (9") to $1275 (12") (mattress only). Advantages: They can build it exactly how I want it, and I would be able to try out the layers before they make it. The owner spent a lot of time with me and is really interested in seeing how it would work out (as it’s not a combination he’s tried before). I really enjoyed working with him. The quality of materials is excellent (they use a 4# blue swirl gel foam, Dunlop latex, and the minimum polyfoam core density would be 2.3), so it should hold up pretty well. The price is good. Paul said when I asked that they could even get a zippered cover and use a minimal amount of adhesive between the layers if I wanted to be able to change them later (something I’m considering, but not necessarily essential — I rather like the covering they use on their existing memory foam mattresses.) They offer a 15 year warranty on their regular memory foam mattresses — and because they stand by the quality of their materials, a 1/2" impression is their standard (as opposed to the 1 1/2" of many other manufacturers.) Disadvantages: No returns. It does involve making another trip or two (about 1.5 hours) to select the layers. Unknowns: If we work with what they have in stock, I would need to go with 3" layers of gel foam and Dunlop latex — I’m not yet sure if we’ll be able to find the right combination with those thicknesses. (While they could special order 2" memory foam or Talalay latex, that might increase the cost. Though I think I may actually prefer the Dunlop.) I suspect that I would need to pay by cash or check (though I don’t know for sure), and I don’t know if they would deliver. (I have a call into Paul about those questions and hope to hear back soon.)

Option 4 - DIY: I could pick up a 2" 4 pound swirl memory gel topper for around $220. I already have three 1 inch 19 ILD Talalay latex toppers that I purchased from Arizona Mattress (I spent around $318 total for those after shipping costs were added in) — I could use those to replicate the 3" 19 ILD talalay in the Dutch Craft mattress. (They feel a bit soft to me, but they might feel different over a firm enough core.) I could get a really good quality HD or HR foam core or a Dunlop latex core online for $300 to $600, depending on which I get and whether I wanted 3" or 6". I could get a bamboo/wool cover for around $200. Advantages: If I got the layers right and am able to use the Talalay toppers that I already have, the cost could be a bit lower than even Rainbow Bedding. I can buy components one at a time to spread out the cost. Disadvantages: If I get it wrong (and that’s a possibility, as I suspect the Talalay I have will be too soft), most places won’t take returns on toppers or components, and it could end up costing me more money, along with the time and stress of figuring out the right combination. I tend to be a bit obsessive when I start a project, so it can either be an incredibly rewarding challenge, or a never-ending quest that eats up far more of my time than is appropriate.

Questions that I have:

•	Does my search for progressive layers with latex supporting the memory foam make sense based on my body type and sleep patterns?
•	Is there anything I’m missing in my thinking about these options?
•	Is my concern that the Dutchcraft mattress might get softer over time a valid concern?  (When I talked with Paul Miller at Rainbow Bedding, he said the main comfort issue he’s seen is that people tend to order mattresses on the firm side, expecting them to soften up, and they don’t — but he uses some pretty dense foam in his cores — 2.3# to 2.7# — so perhaps there isn’t that much softening with the denser materials?)
•	Would the fact that Plushbeds uses gel foam with "beads" make it feel different or be less durable than the "swirl" gel in the other mattresses?  I think I’ve seen in other discussions here that they use good materials, but may not be the best value compared to others, but that may have been more in reference to all latex.
•	Would there be a major difference in feel between a 9" mattress and a 12" mattress (if the core were the same density — the only difference being that one has 3" core and the other is 6")?
•	Do any of these options look better than the others?
•	I have the Smartbase Metal Platform Frame/Foundation from Zinus (marketed as Night Therapy here:  http://www.sears.com/night-therapy-deluxe-platform-metal-bed-frame-foundation-queen/p-00835628000P) — will that work with the mattress options that I’m considering?  I saw a post on the forum that suggested it should be okay, but it wasn’t for sure.

And for other members — I’ve seen a number of threads that mention the companies I’m considering, but haven’t found many who have actually purchased from them.

•	Has anyone tried the PlushBeds 12" Cool Bliss?  If so, what is your experience?
•	I know there was another member (and possibly more) that had Rainbow Bedding make a custom mattress, but I haven’t seen a report on how that worked out once they got the mattress— anyone have any experience with them to share?
•	Has anyone tried the Dr. J beds made by Dutch Craft?  (Or had any experience with their beds?)

Thanks in advance for any help!

PS - The regular mattresses that Rainbow Bedding makes are sold by some Amish furniture stores under the name of Monarch Rest. They primarily make innerspring mattresses, and offer one with a replaceable pillow top (which can be made in latex, memory foam, or various densities of poly foam and is attached by velcro to the innerspring base). They offer a couple different two-sided memory foam mattresses that use 5# memory foam and have a 2.7# polyfoam core. And they offer a gel memory foam mattress (the one I’m trying to customize by inserting latex in the middle) that can be made with a soft, medium or firm core. I have a brochure with specs for each mattress if anyone is interested.

Hi a2dox,

Thanks for taking the time to share all your feedback … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

You’re right that it was a long one but I have a few basic suggestions that should help you make a final choice although I don’t think the reply will be nearly as long :).

There is more about the many different properties of different types of memory foam in post #9 here and post #8 here and as you discovered the density of memory foam is not directly connected with the specific properties or “feel” of the memory foam.

All the layers and components of a mattress will have an effect on the feel and performance of all the other layers and the mattress as a whole so using specs isn’t an effective way to predict how a mattress will feel to you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because even minor differences in the type, thickness or firmness of individual layers, the specific type of foam used (regardless of its density), or even the type of cover or quilting along with many other specifications that are part of individual layers or the complete mattress can make a surprising difference in the feel and performance of the mattress.

There are always too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to use specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” to make a mattress choice and your own careful testing for PPP (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) will be the most reliable way to decide whether a mattress is a good “match” for you. If you can’t test a mattress in person then a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer or retailer that is more familiar with “matching” their own mattresses to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences based on the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you and that can help “talk you through” the options they offer would be a much more reliable source of guidance about making the most suitable choice (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). If you aren’t confident about whether a specific choice would be suitable for you in terms of PPP then the return or exchange options that are available would also become a more important part of the “value” of your purchase.

Your experience here is another indicator why you can’t use the specs of specific layers to predict how a mattress will feel. The density of polyfoam is also not the biggest reason for the difference you felt because any density of polyfoam can be made in a wide range of firmness levels and it’s the firmness of the foam that you would feel most although higher density polyfoam can also have a higher compression modulus (the rate that a material gets firmer as you compress it more deeply) which can also have some effect on how firm a material feels. There is more about the different specs that can affect the perception of firmness in post #4 here.

There are also many people that prefer Dunlop over Talalay (and vice versa) and there is more about the differences between them in post #7 here.

There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” another one in post #9 here but I would once again keep in mind that you while this mattress may be in the same general “category” as another mattress you have tried … every mattress category has a wide range of designs and firmness and softness options with different “feels” so you won’t be able to use specs to predict whether a mattress would be a good match for you. With any online purchase you would be more reliant on a more detailed conversation on the phone along with the return/exchange policy so you can use your actual sleeping experience to decide whether the mattress is a good match for you and “feels” the way you hope it does.

If you are considering designing and building a DIY mattress I would make sure that you’ve read option 3 in post #15 here to make sure you have realistic expectations of success and the trial and error that may be involved. The “best” approach with a DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” where the process itself, your experiences, and what you learn along the way are more important than any cost savings which may or may not happen depending on whether you purchase any layers or components that end up needing to be replaced.

The mattress shopping tutorial also includes several links to some of the better online options and possibilities I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that may also be well worth talking to if you are including online manufacturers and retailers in your research.

There is more about the most important parts of the value of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses but none of the options you are considering use any lower quality materials or have any obvious weak links in their design.

When you have reached the point you have reached and you are down to finalists that are between “good and good” and there are no weak links in any of them and there are no clear winners between them then your final choice (see post #2 here) will come down to “best judgement” based on your local testing, your conversations with online manufacturers/retailers, and all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

The choice of materials is always a personal preference but if you prefer this type of combination (and there are certainly many people that prefer relatively thinner layers of memory foam over a more resilient type of foam underneath it) then it would be the specifics of the design that was most important in terms of whether it was a good match for you in terms of PPP and the only way to know this with any certainty would be based on your local testing or your actual sleeping experience. Even the most knowledgeable mattress designers with years of experience with many different types and variations of all the different types of foam and other components will often be surprised at how a mattress actually “feels” in real life compared to how it was “supposed to feel” based on specs.

Other than the comments I’ve made and your over reliance on specs to try and predict how a mattress may feel … not that I can see no.

All mattresses will break in and soften slightly to some degree over the first few weeks (see post #3 here) but if a mattress uses good quality materials then this will be much less and I would always choose a mattress that was a good match for you in terms of PPP when you buy it and I wouldn’t try and factor foam softening in to your choice other than making sure that a mattress wasn’t “on the edge” of being too soft for you.

If the memory foam is different then it can feel different yes. There is also more about the different types of gel materials (including gel memory foams) in post #2 here.

It would depend entirely on the design of the mattress and the specifics of the all the materials and components in each mattress and on how they interact together with a specific person because the thickness of an individual layer or a mattress is only one of many factors that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress. If two mattresses use the exact same layers and materials (not just the same general type or density) in the same firmness level and have the same type of cover and the only difference between them is in the thickness of the support core then whether someone would feel a “significant” difference or “some” difference or no difference at all would depend on their body type, their sleeping positions, and on where they were inside the range between “princess and the pea” or “I can sleep on anything” in terms of their sensitivity to any differences between two mattresses. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here.

This is something that only you can decide based on all the criteria that are most important to you. None of them have any obvious weak links in their design.

It “should” be OK for a mattress that has a polyfoam support core but it also has wider spaces between the wires than other similar platform bedframes which may affect how much your mattress sinks into the gaps over time (see post #10 here). In other words … the risk of this would be higher than other foundations that have closer spacing between the wires.

Hopefully some of the members here that own any of the mattresses you are considering will see your post and share their feedback but I would be very cautious about using anyone else’s experience as a reliable indication of what you may feel on the same mattress because a mattress that feels too firm to one person can feel too soft to someone else (and vice versa) and a mattress that is a good match for one person or even a group of people in terms of PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on … even if they have a similar body type or sleeping style (see post #13 here about mattress reviews). In the end the only reliable way to know with any certainty whether a mattress is a good match for you would be based on your own personal testing or actual sleeping experience and the only reliable way to assess the quality and durability of a mattress is by knowing the specifics of its construction and design and the materials inside it.

It would be great if you can attach the brochure to one of your posts (or email it to me and I can attach it for you).

This turned out to be a little longer reply than I anticipated when I first began it and hopefully it will be helpful :slight_smile:

Phoenix

I scanned the booklet I got from Rainbow Bedding – it provides the specs for all of their standard mattresses. Pages 32 and 33 of the booklet are “Mattress Facts,” which is pretty interesting reading. I’m attempting to attach the file (it didn’t work with Safari, so I’m trying Firefox) – hopefully it will work. (It’s a pretty large file though …)

Hi a2dox,

The maximum attachment size was 12.3 MB which was smaller than your document so I changed it to 16 MB and added it to your post.

Thanks for taking the time to get this and scan it … I appreciate it :).

There is some great information in the document about their mattresses and it’s great to see they are using some high quality materials. I’ve also attached a link to your post to the Rainbow bedding listings in the forum lists.

Thanks again!

Phoenix

After months of testing and searching, I’ve finally ordered my new mattress!

I made an appointment to visit Paul Miller at Rainbow Bedding again, and spent an afternoon trying out different layer combinations, with the plan being to find the right combination of gel memory foam on top, latex in the middle and polyfoam on the bottom, looking for something similar to the Dutch Craft Dr. J Serene mattress that I liked the best so far, but which wasn’t quite perfect. What we were trying was also similar to Rainbow’s Ultra Gel memory foam mattress, but inserting a layer of latex into the middle to give it a bit of extra “spring” that would keep my hips better aligned without pressure points.

For each combination that I tried, we used 3" of 4 lb. swirl gel memory foam (12 ILD) on top, with the fabric they use for their Ultra Gel memory foam mattress laid over it. We tried different 3" Dunlop latex layers in the middle. For testing purposes we used 1.8 lb. 35 ILD polyurethane foam on the bottom since that was handy (though the actual finished mattress will have 2.4 lb 35 ILD polyurethane foam), trying both a 3 inch base and a 6 inch base.

Of the three latex layers that we tried, the Latex 95 (approximately 40-45 ILD) was definitely much too firm. The Latex 75 (28 ILD) felt pretty good — quite cushiony, though I felt just a tiny bit of hip pressure. The Latex 55 (18 ILD) felt very cushy as well, and I was leaning toward that, but it seemed like it may be just a teeny bit too soft. I switched back and forth between the 75 and the 55, trying them with both a 3 inch core and a 6 inch core (which Paul didn’t think would make much of a difference, but I found that I preferred the 6 inch each time). Even with the 6 inch core, I was struggling to decide on which latex layer would work best.

I was feeling a bit torn and also a bit embarrassed at constantly having them switch out layers for me to try again (and after a couple hours, Paul had another appointment to go to soon). Then I thought more about their Ultra Gel memory foam mattress (which I’d tried before in the firm version, which had either a 44 or 50 ILD core and was too firm, and in the plush version, which had a 27 ILD core and was too soft). I remembered that it has 1.5 inches of 1.8 lb. 20 ILD polyurethane foam in between the memory foam and the core. That was something we hadn’t tried, so I asked if we could add that in between the gel foam and the latex. What a difference it made — I could tell almost instantly that THIS was the right combination! With the medium Latex 75 (28 ILD), it added just enough softness to eliminate that little bit of pressure on my hips, without being too soft. (Essentially it was their “medium” version of their Ultra Gel memory foam mattress, with 3 inches of medium latex inserted above the core.) I tried it with both the 3 inch core and the 6 inch, and still felt that the 6 inches felt better.

So I finally “pulled the trigger” and placed an order. What I’m getting is four layers that get progressively firmer from top to bottom:

3" 4 lb. swirl gel memory foam (12 ILD), over
1.5" 1.8 lb. polyurethane foam (20 ILD), over
3" Dunlop Latex 75 (28 ILD), over
6" 2.4 lb. polyurethane foam (35 ILD).

I love that it has that wonderful cushiony “in the mattress” feel of the gel memory foam, that bit of added cushion from the medium/soft polyfoam, the bit of springy resilient support of the latex (without being bouncy at all), and a high quality foam core. The comfort layer is thick enough to accommodate my curves and sleeping on my side, while the latex keeps me from sinking too far and either bottoming out or losing my alignment. And the materials should be of pretty good quality. I just really, really hope it feels the same at home. (The factory was much cooler than my house will be, but oddly enough, it didn’t seem to impact the feel of the gel foam, which surprised me, since other memory foam mattresses I’ve tried definitely felt different when they were cold.)

So now I wait. If they have all the materials in stock (they had to check on the 2.4 lb. core foam), I should have it in two weeks. If not, it could be four to six weeks. We will end up having to borrow a truck to go pick it up (while they can deliver, their delivery service charges $1 a mile and it’s 72 miles one way). Adding the extra foam and the thicker core brought the price up to $1350 plus tax, which is almost twice as much as I paid for my last mattress (9 years ago), but I should be getting higher quality and more comfort, the price is comparable to (if not actually a bit better than) others I’ve tried, and I know they really stand behind their products. I still have that bit of fear that I will have gone through all of this and it won’t help with the aches and pains that I have in the morning (especially when I see how many people here get their mattresses and AREN’T happy with them), but after all of the months of shopping and researching and testing, I’m confident that this was the best choice out of everything I’ve tried over the past several months.

Thanks so much to this forum for letting me know what options were out there. I never would have explored beyond the major brands or experimented with different types of beds or different layer combinations had I not come here, and I never would have found Rainbow Bedding without the listings here. I never would have realized that a firm mattress was NOT what I needed for better alignment – rather, I needed a progressive mattress that would have a comfort layer thick enough accommodate my curves but provided enough support that I didn’t sink too far.

Hi a2dox,

Thanks for taking the time to share such detailed comments and feedback about your research and for letting us know about the mattress you decided on.

You certainly did some great testing and it wonderful to see that Paul and Rainbow Bedding was willing to work so closely with you to find the best combination of materials for your mattress.

Most of all … congratulations on your new mattress. I think you made a great quality/value choice :).

I hope you have the chance to share your feedback once you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit as well.

Phoenix

It took three weeks to make, but on Thursday I got the call that my mattress was ready. We were fortunate to have a sunny day in between snow storms to go down to Sugarcreek and pick it up today. Paul Miller at Rainbow Bedding has been delightful to deal with, and I’m hoping that after all of these months of searching and testing and analyzing, that what I designed and had them build is everything that I was hoping for. (I was very glad we had help getting it upstairs – this is one hefty mattress!)

Since we had it sitting in the back of a pickup truck in 29 degree weather for two hours getting it home, I’ve got my electric blanket on it and turned on for bit before I try it out tonight. :slight_smile:

Hi a2dox,

Thanks for the update.

Now comes the best part which is actually sleeping on your new mattress :).

I’m looking forward to any additional updates you have the chance to share once you’ve slept on it for a bit.

Phoenix

Well. I’m totally befuddled. And a bit sad. And rather embarassed (as my family made fun of me for spending so much time and effort to find the “perfect” mattress).

After I tried out the different layers in the factory and made my decision, I had posted:

“I love that it has that wonderful cushiony “in the mattress” feel of the gel memory foam, that bit of added cushion from the medium/soft polyfoam, the bit of springy resilient support of the latex (without being bouncy at all), and a high quality foam core. The comfort layer is thick enough to accommodate my curves and sleeping on my side, while the latex keeps me from sinking too far and either bottoming out or losing my alignment. And the materials should be of pretty good quality. I just really, really hope it feels the same at home. (The factory was much cooler than my house will be, but oddly enough, it didn’t seem to impact the feel of the gel foam, which surprised me, since other memory foam mattresses I’ve tried definitely felt different when they were cold.)”

My only concern was that it might actually be too soft when I got it home.

It’s actually totally the opposite. The mattress feels SIGNIFICANTLY firmer than what I tried there. While the top is cushiony, I am not getting the “in the mattress” feel that I experienced, and it feels like there’s a lot of pushback from the layers below. It’s still better than the bed I had, but it’s definitely not the luxurious bliss that I had felt when I was doing my testing. So what’s different?

What we tried in the factory for the core layer was 1.8# 35 ILD poly foam (because that’s what was handy at the time). When I ordered the mattress, I ordered it with 2.4# 35 ILD poly foam. According to what’s written on the tag, they used the 2.4# 35 ILD poly foam. Could just that change in density make it feel THAT much firmer than the 1.8# foam with the same ILD? Keep in mind that I have 3" of latex (28 ILD), 1 1/2" of 1.8# polyfoam (20 ILD), and 3" of 4# gel memory foam (12 ILD) on top of it, so it’s not like there isn’t plenty of cushion above the core, but I know from talking to the manufacturer that the core has a big impact on how the upper layers feel.

In the factory, the layers were not encased in fabric, though the fabric was laid on top of it. And obviously they weren’t glued together. Would either of those things make a difference?

At the factory, the layers were laid on a solid surface; at home, I have the Smartbase Metal Platform Frame/Foundation from Zinus (marketed as Night Therapy here: www.sears.com/night-therapy-deluxe-platf...queen/p-00835628000P) — it looks a lot like what Brooklyn Bedding is selling. I was a little concerned that the wires were a bit too far apart (4") – Paul recommended 2 1/2" gaps – so to be safe, I laid a sheet of cardboard over the wires to ensure that there would be good support. I’m pretty sure that would not make it feel firmer than on the solid surface we tried in the factory.

I had thought about asking them to make it with a zippered cover (something they don’t normally do and would have to special order), just in case I wanted to make changes later, but I had felt so confident in my selection (and so desirous of finally getting a new mattress) that I didn’t request that, so I can’t just open it up and look at what’s inside. (And I’m not sure if it would tell me much if I did so, unless the types of foam are written on the layers.)

I’m just wondering if somehow I ended up with a firmer core than requested, or perhaps the Latex 95 instead of the Latex 75 in the middle. (I tried the Latex 95 when I was there, and it was definitely too firm. And I had also tried their firm Ultra Gel mattress, which doesn’t have the latex layer in the middle, on a previous visit, which has a 2.7# foam core that’s in the 45-50 ILD range — that was definitely too firm also. What I have now feels similar in firmness in firmness to those.) From feeling the sides of the mattress I have, I’m more inclined to think that if a mistake was made, it would have been with the core foam material rather than the latex. Everything above the core seems to “squish” pretty well.

I’m trying to be patient, as I’ve only slept on it a few nights, and give myself time to adjust and to see if it will soften up a little before I either try a topper or call the manufacturer, but I keep thinking that there has to be some mistake, unless the 2.4# foam really does feel that much different. The difference is obvious the minute I get into bed, and I just don’t understand it at all. How could I have gotten it wrong???

Hi a2dox,

There’s no way for me to know this of course but designing your own mattress can be somewhat tricky because there are many seemingly small things that can affect how it feels and performs that can sometimes be surprising.

The difference in the support core would probably have “some effect” but with 7.5" of foam on top of it the chances of it being a major difference are much smaller.

Glued layers vs unglued layers can also make some difference and any difference in the cover can also affect the feel and performance of a mattress as well (especially with memory foam which is temperature sensitive and can be affected by how much of your body heat reaches it).

Your platform/bedframe would have very little give so it’s also less likely that it would be affecting how your mattress feels compared to the solid surface you tested it on.

Some other possibilities are that your mattress is very new and there will also be a break in and adjustment period with any new mattress and it’s also possible that any mattress protector or mattress pad you are using may be having an effect on your mattress as well (see post #2 here).

It’s also possible that it’s connected to how you tested the layering in the store and the more subjective differences between what you felt when you tested the mattress and what you feel when you sleep on it could be contributing to the differences you feel as well. Our memory of firmness and softness is not always accurate and is also fairly subjective and relative. If there is some time between when you test a mattress and then test or sleep on it later then the time and your experiences in between can alter your perceptions of how soft or firm it is as well. It’s not uncommon for example to test mattresses early in the day and then go back and test the same mattresses later in the day or the next day after you have tested other mattresses and discover that the mattresses that you tested feel different than you remember they did because your frame of reference has changed with time and as you tested other mattresses.

Finally it’s also possible that your layers are somehow different from what you tested but of course there would be no way for me to know this.

The “best” suggestion for now though outside of the suggestions regarding your sheets and bedding and talking to Paul at Rainbow Bedding to see if they have any suggestions as well would probably be to “do nothing” to see how the normal break in and adjustment period for any new mattress affects your experience.

Phoenix