40 ILD? WOW
Have you tried a Stearns Ultra Firm? Not suggesting that you purchase one, but the Adele ultra that we tried felt like I could feel the outline of my body where it pressed ever so slightly into whatever foam it used.
Nope…wouldn’t have access…I have the Boulevard - it was the only S&F the stores I visited carried at the time. Never again, only going factory direct only. It’s insane, you get 1/3 the price and you can customize it. So there was a ton of pushback is what you’re saying?
OK I gots to know: What is cement foam?
Also I’d suggest sticking to your guns on the Stearns warranty and maybe try again in 6 months. If the sagging is slow recovery there are some things that you can do to help this along.
Cement foam is probably just polyurethane foam that’s just crazy ILD.
I’ll let you know when I check it out, should be at that place by Saturday at the very latest.
I was curious so I did some quick google searching and there actually is a foam that is either foamed cement or polyurethane mixed with Portland cement but most of it is used in construction and road work.
I would also think that in this case it means polyfoam with "crazy’ ILD’s but I’d be interested in what they say about it.
Phoenix
Just an update:
Sears needs a 2" depression for warranty, different from the 1.5" the salesman told me at the point of sale. Exchanges are up to manager discretion, though fortunately I think they will allow an exchange. I’d still rather get something of quality…
Cement foam is just densely packed polyurethane - it is 2.8 lbs / ft^3
Springmade ordered a queen that should be ready as a sample on Saturday though I need a double, I feel bad for mis-communication but he said he never usually encounters hard latex (mostly due to price sensitivity of consumers) and people have been asking for hard beds - so I can try out both the latex bed and cement foam on Saturday. I’m impressed with Springmade so far. They say they’re a mom and pop shop, not huge profit margins. They’ve pretty cool people there. Think Mauricio and Joe are 2 brothers that run it. I’ll keep you posted. I may visit tomorrow if I can get the time off work. I think Mauricio does deliveries with a helper so I’m wondering if he helps set up, him and Joe alternate as delivery people.
Just a thought, if Sears will give you an exchange, ask them to leave it in the plastic and put it up on kijiji or something and sell it. Put the proceeds towards something else.
Yeah it’s a smart idea. I considered doing that but I’m giving the bed to a family member, taking a 1.2k hit.
Looks like Greensleep didn’t have the 40 ILD in stock but I should get the new replacement bed from Sears, so I won’t bash them too much…at least the Yorkdale location. Looks like I’ll be getting a 1 grand Simmons as replacement/gift to someone else but I’ll use it first prior to ordering mine. Guess I have to call again Monday to determine their supply status. Soma won’t get their Sienna until Jan 29…so many problems. Oh yeah, Halstead has not responded to my e-mails from Jan 11 2013 nor has Brooklyn Bedding over the weekend. I called Brooklyn, seemed to be a dude with a voicemail (probably the owner?).
Hi Hobotrader,
I called them when I read this just now and talked with Martin and they do have 40 ILD latex and can ship it anywhere. He is also getting his wife to check their emails to see if there is anything they missed. He also said that you could call him or email him directly at [email protected].
The person who almost always answers the phone at Brooklyn Bedding is Chuck who is not the owner but the one who deals with all of their customer enquiries. He’s usually pretty good at replying but over the weekend you may not receive a reply.
Phoenix
Yeah my e-mail went to [email protected] - I spoke to him over the phone. The e-mail didn’t bounce so I assume it was a legit account, maybe I misheard Ryan for Martin?
Brooklyn I called on a weekday but people do get busy - yeah I think it was a young sounding dude. I didn’t do a repeat call because Springmade had what I wanted and were very responsive. It’s easier to deal local. But if it collapses I’ll go looking for other places. They said their supplier did not have a 40 in stock so they couldn’t get a display queen. We thought they’d have it in by Saturday (today), I was halfway there. I’ll try calling again Monday to get further details. They have the price point that I want and location. Shipping shouldn’t be brutal.
Thanks for checking out communications. Could be a mistake on my end.
Hi Hobo7trader,
Ryan is one of the long term employees there and I have talked with him often so your email would have gone to a valid address. I would maybe mention it to Martin (the owner) if you call or email him.
Phoenix
Oh it’s ok for now. I’ll deal with springmade because of the shipping issues. It’s pretty complicated, I’m giving this Simmons that I’ll be getting to my brother while he pays for the shipping so that his bed is thrown out, the Simmons goes to him, while I taket he latex. Springmade can produce it cheaper and faster (within days) and since they’re just a 20-30 minute drive, delivery should be a piece of cake. I think Halstead’s charge is higher, and I’m worried about production and delivery times, shipping would also be killer and I don’t know if they can pull a complex shipping operation. But this is pending on whether Mauricio can get his latex, he said his supplier was out of stock I should have inquired more but I was in pain while in the car. I’ll find out Monday in any case. The fact that Sears warrantied the bed should give me some extra time to figure things out rather than jumping the gun. I’ll also look into Brooklyn Bedding since they can get it done so cheaply, I’m sure the multi-hundred dollar shipping will be cheaper than my CAD options.
Sleeping perpendicular to the bed I’m on and now that’s cratering. The Simmons is coming in next Saturday (Sears exchange at manager discretion). If 40 isn’t firm enough for latex, would it diminish the quality of the bed to put a cement foam core and put 3" latex above and below? Latex is least likely to sink in right? I think I must really have a heavy lumbar to crater beds in that easily.
Hi Hobotrader,
If you are defining “quality” in terms of durability and the likelihood it will soften or develop permanent impressions and if the cement foam was high enough density (density is independent of firmness) then probably not … or at least very little. Latex is the most durable foam but high quality polyfoam is also a very good and durable material … especially in deeper layers.
It would or course change the feel and performance of the mattress (which is the idea) and the “cement foam” wouldn’t be as adaptable or resilient as latex. The amount of sinking in (vs initial or ongoing softening or permanent cratering) is dependent on the ILD and the compression modulus (how quickly it becomes firer with deeper compression) of the foam regardless of whether it’s latex or polyfoam.
I think I’ve mentioned this but I can’t remember for certain so just in case … Ikea also has two Dunlop latex mattresses. One of them the Sultan Edsele has 7" of mostly natural (85%) Dunlop and the other the Sultan Elsfjord has 5 1/2" of synthetic Dunlop (which I normally wouldn’t suggest because it wouldn’t have the feel or performance of natural but may have the stiffness you want). Both of these are “rated” as firm although they don’t give an ILD or density but I think that the Elsfjord is the firmest of the two. Just in case you want to test them 
You certainly do like firmer mattresses than the vast majority of people
Phoenix
Yeah I’ve got pretty bad back problems, I was hoping Springmade would have the Queen in by now but I guess I’ll have to wait until next week.
The cement foam is 2.8 lbs/ft^3 lol…I think that’s the densest I’ve come across. I’ll see if the 40 is sufficient. You have mentioned Ikea, I haven’t gotten around to going yet. Sitting in cars is painful at the moment so I’m carefully rationing it. I’ll call Ikea first to make sure they have it in stock where I am. I think the reason I haven’t tried is because I don’t know the ILD whereas I did with Soma. I guess worse comes to worse, Soma should have their 40 ILD Sienna coming in. But I was none too impressed with the 40 top/32 bottom I slept on last time in Soma. If 40 doesn’t work I’ll think about sandwiching the 2.8 pound per square foot cement foam…cement sandwich. I guess it’s good to see if latex can ‘get there’. A 41 poly did pressure point me at foamite, but having a contour pockets on the 51 took away the pressure points and gave the support I needed. So I figure a 3" 40 ILD latex would be a comfort layer on top of a cement foam. I gotta get the ILD of that, hopefully its 62’ish.This is going to be one heavy bed. But it’s hard to screw up latex right? It doesn’t even seem like the warranty is relevant as you said hahah.
Greensleep /valley is Springmade’s supplier.
I guess the simple thing to do is to drop my weight to keep a bed in good condition. Hard to do without gym capability. I didn’t even think my 210 lbs weight was that murderous on mattresses considering the obesity epidemic in North America. Heh, will the feel of a mattress change if I drop to 160 lbs?
Hi Hobotrader,
That would certainly be durable.
That would be one mighty firm mattress
In terms of quality yes it would be hard to screw up but it’s as easy to make mistakes in terms of firmness or layering as any other material.
Greensleep is a mattress manufacture. The Dunlop latex manufacturer is Latex Green. Valle foam/Dom foam supplies lots of the manufacturers in the area. They were the ones that ran into some legal troubles for price fixing.
210 isn’t particularly heavy and there are lots of people that are much heavier than you are (well over 300 lbs) that are going considerably softer in both the support and comfort layers … but that’s what different needs and preferences (and different backs) are all about. At 160 the amount you sink in will change so the 'feel" would change as well but it would be so gradual that you may adjust along the way and may not notice it (like the difference between seeing someone every day and not noticing how they are changing vs seeing them once every few years where the changes seem much bigger).
Phoenix
So I got a Simmons Beauty Rest as a replacement. The sides are kinda of greasy and feel moist and it’s letting off a weird smell - probably some carcinogenic flame retardant (smells like turpentine?). Springmade has the latex and they’ll quilt it over the weekend, I’ll check it out this week. Should be about a grand.
Oh yeah, so get this. While I’m getting my warranty, 2 dudes come to deliver the bed swearing like crazy lol. They dump the bed in my living room, they see that my mattress has no bag over it (we weren’t warned by Sears store agent) and the lifters left us high and dry even though there were bags on the new mattress. Sears…The manager agreed to send someone after giving us bags. This has been an awful shopping experience with Sears though I should be grateful they let us do an exchange. I am still out 1.2 grand but I’ll write it off as a bad trade lol [which sadly it had become]. I’ll probably never shop at Sears again. I can’t believe agent gave us a figure of 1.5 inches for warranty as opposed to 2 inches which I got by Sears corporate customer service…
Hi Hobotrader,
I’d agree that you were more fortunate than many where a warranty replacement was refused.
As frustrating as it has been … and even though it cost you some money … you are still among the more fortunate few.
I agree with your sentiments about mattress shopping at Sears for the most part. It’s next to impossible to find someone there who really knows much about mattresses.
Now all that’s left is delivery of your new mattress
Phoenix
Oh they’re just quilting a display model. I felt bad that they bought a Queen when I wanted a double but at the same time they said they’ll use it to showcase since more people have been asking for hard beds. I’ll go Tuesday/Wednesday to test it out and punch in the order. It’ll be a complex order but I can always pay more for complex shipping or if I need to slice the latex in two and make a cement foam sandwich. I’ll see if the ILD 40 will do it. I really hope so, it’ll make my life simple. I’ll probably quilt it with wool in bamboo or something. I’ll read your section on that again. I hope I don’t get cancer in the next week breathing in the Simmons fumes.
Edit: I’ll let you know what goes on at Springmade. Guess my review of Sears is not too surprising. I know I’ve been very lucky to get a manager to switch the beds. I told everyone to not buy from Dept stores and just engineer your own bed, costs 1/3 as much and its suited to you. When I was doing quick research of beds I found that not many beds got above 2-3 stars, some even got 1 star like my Stears and Fosters, only because they couldn’t show decimals. I thought it was just people’s preferences not that they’re cheapening the beds out. Heh I wonder if factories marketed better, they could destroy the S corps. But I’m one of the few where advertising and branding doesn’t really work lol, central vs. peripheral processing.
Edit: Might not have to breathe fumes after all, I’ll stick to the bed I’m using now. I think its using a plush top and that’s causing neuro symptoms. I think the floor/carpet is one of the only places where I feel nothing - though I will get a lumbar pressure point. Bed I’m using now is a tight top pocket coil, firm, pretty old but I’m sleeping sideways on a Queen…don’t ask lol. I might actually go for cement foam if 40 ILD latex won’t do it. Only 460, beats the hell out of Foamite.
Edit: Parents like the Simmons Beauty rest, they say they wake up with no back pain (fresh new bed right), I can’t believe the Stearns and Fosters was that bad. It’s probably the reason why my condition deteriorated so badly. Heh, the box spring is just horizontal and vertically running metal rods. Wow…
I visited Springmade, the 40 ILD latex is much too soft but it’s ‘almost there’. The cement foam was just a yellow foam (spongelike). It was incredibly hard. They say, if people want to order it, try sleeping on the floor. If you can wake up relaxed and well rested then you should get it. I think they use that as their cores. So going there I had 2 options:
-
Sandwich cement foam between two 3" thick ILD 40 latex layers and them creating a special modified box (3" gaps in slats and 2 double central bars) for 150 dollars, the mattress being 900 + 180 for cement foam core - 1 230
-
4" of 5 pound memory foam on top of 7" heavy polyurethane (cement foam 2.8 pound) core - 750 for entire set (includes box)
-
I’m going back Saturday to test this - 7" cement foam bottom, with 3" latex layer on top - 850 for entire set (includes box)
I think I’m going to go with options 2 or 3 but I’m perfectly satisfied with #2. That memory foam is pretty though, I like the firmness but I worry about indentation and long term sag. Joe, one of the owners, personally owns this bed, had it for 2 years still going strong.
I’ll just wait for option 3 to open up to test before purchase. I think by Saturday I’ll have something.
These beds are made in Eurotops - 1 sided btw, is it worth 50% price increase to double side it? It would be a dual sided pillowtop. Oh yeah, he defined Eurotop as 1 top, pillowtop is just the formation on the bed. I think they build it out of consumer preference. I won’t get any extra money back if I forego a pillow/eurotop so might as well. I can create a dual sided bed but it’ll cost a little extra - that’d be option #1. That cement foam must be 60+ ILD, it’s the hardest foam I’ve slept on.
Pretty good customer service. Free delivery.
I don’t intend to live in Toronto for too long so I doubt I’ll destroy a good quality 1 sided within 5 years?
What do you think? Should I stay away from memory foam? Or should I spring more for double sided? The material quality seems pretty decent as is. I’m not sure how big a core would be for option #1, probably 2-4 inches in the center? He said a heavy core like cement foam will change the nature of latex on the top and bottom, it won’t have as much give (I don’t like give).