Odd request

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
61

Hi Hobotrader,

I’m still amazed that you find 40 ILD latex too soft :slight_smile:

The choice between memory foam and latex would be strictly a matter of personal preference based on whether you prefer a slow response or fast response material on top. Latex will also be a bit more breathable and motion friendly … and a bit more durable as well … but for those who prefer memory foam then nothing else will do. Both memory foam in the 5 lb range and latex would be durable materials and this wouldn’t be an issue IMO. Memory foam will likely go through more initial softening than latex.

I probably wouldn’t go 2 sided in your case for several reasons. First because both of the options you are considering would be durable enough for your circumstances, second because having a 3" comfort layer on the bottom may affect how a mattress feels and performs compared to a mattress that you have tested that is one sided (unless of course you have specifically tested the two sided construction and prefer it), and third because I don’t think the extra cost would be justified in your case … although that would be a personal decision and each person may think differently about what is most important to them. All of the options you are considering use good quality materials and have very good value. I share his thoughts that having a very dense and high ILD polyfoam in the middle of two layers of latex will certainly change the feel and performance of a mattress compared to having all latex.

Thanks again for sharing your ongoing experiences and feedback :slight_smile:

Phoenix

62

Thanks for the tips. I feel more comfortable now with the two choices. Joe received the latex and he knew immediately that I wouldn’t like it. Though I think he was surprised how firm it was when you actually lie down on it. I’m excited to get a bed finally, I’ll know by end Saturday or Monday. Either way it’ll get delivered on Feb 9th. I’m just so shocked at how quickly they can turn a bed around (2 days) and how cheaply they provide stuff.

The memory foam is so tough that I never really thought about the concept of slow response or fast response. Yeah even if I had unlimited amounts of money, a double sided mattress of this nature wouldn’t warrant the extra cost. Maybe if I was able to sleep on a 6" latex. The latex was ‘almost there’. I think I need a composite 50 ILD at least to stop neurological symptoms. I would not be shocked if that cement foam was 100. It pressure pointed me.

Oh yeah, the quilting will be that generic bamboo (50%) that you seem to find everywhere - polyester inside. Doesn’t matter to me though, it’d be better than stearns and foster or a simmons beauty rest in any case. I’ll just compare the memory foam or latex. I’m surprised they’re nice enough to build display or test models before I buy. I think he made it sound like he was doing it out of curiosity. Hopefully he can get the latex just as firm as that memory foam. I don’t care either way, as long as it lasts long and provides the firmness I want. It looks like the cement foam will be doing most of that work.

One thing I appreciate is that they can target their shipping in a 2 hour window, with sears its 6 hours. So its hard to book my condo elevator for that long a time period. Anyway it was a good shopping experience, though he said I spent the second longest time in the store (2 hours, longest being 4)…it’s not a big showroom, but there’s a massive factory at the back.

I guess since I’m using a crazy heavy polyfoam it doesn’t matter what kind of base I have.

He was going to make a 3" latex on top but my deltoid (shoulder muscle) is probably going to be thicker than that, especially on a bulk cycle. That memory foam slept awesome on the side but that’s because it’s 4". I guess I can specify a 4" top at purchase point. Heh if paying by cash they don’t make you pay until its delivered (delivery typically free).

63

Hi Hobotrader,

Memory foam can be quite tricky … especially if you haven’t tested it for long enough for it to really soften with your weight and body temperature. It is firmer on the way down with compression and when it is cooler but will soften considerably with time on the mattress, humidity, and temperature so what happens is that it really softens more slowly than the latex but it would end up being softer. It can also be deceiving because it can be soft under pressure from the body (once it is compressed) but quite firm beside the shape it forms under the body when you change positions or move more quickly which for some people is the reason they don’t like memory foam because it can feel like you are sleeping in “quicksand” and it is not as movement friendly as latex. It can take some getting used to.

The polyester/bamboo quilting is a reasonable quality tick and is not as warm as a polyester ticking.

It would still need to be rigid and non flexing but the gaps between any slats or spaces could be larger than they would need to be for latex.

4" of memory foam would sink in a lot more than 40 ILD latex but it would just take more time to get there. I’ll leave any speculation about 3" or 4" of latex to your own testing because you are so far out of the 'norm" that I think it’s probably safer that way :slight_smile:

Phoenix

64

Thanks again for the tips. Yeah memory foam carries more unknown unknown risk from my perspective. I know that latex won’t indent or de-stabilize and isn’t varied according to heat. The most minor destabilization, I will feel it.

That memory foam is tough, I expected the tempurpedic quick sand but it’s solid as a rock. He says its because it’s 5 pounds and because the cement foam is changing its behaviour. Still, the peaks and valley scare the crap out of me from that Stearns and Fosters and I know latex has the lowest probability of having that. Actually now that I think about it, it was bloody cold in the factory and the memory foam mattress was right by the window. That’s why it felt so hard and not memory-foam’ish like I experienced at the Sears tempurpedic.

I think the slats are about 1 feet apart by default with a central bar. He can mod the ribs for an extra 50 dollars. I’ll ask, it’s definitely a solid base though.

I was about to say go ahead to the memory foam but felt it pointless since I’d have to wait anyway. I’ll see if 3" of latex is enough, I can always ask for 4. They seemed to get a 7" thick piece from their wholesaler. He doesn’t believe it’s natural but I think they’re either using Valle or Latex Green? For a 100 bucks extra, it seems like latex is the better deal as far as longevity goes. I think what made the memory foam feel so good was the cold…my room is extremely cold in winters and extremely hot in summers…

The latex 40 was perfect for my slide and stomach sleeping btw. I felt my butt sink in more than I’d like while sleeping on my back.

One last thing, the quilting, the bamboo is quite thick and Joe said that can compress over time. Is it better to get a no frills thin fabric tight top? Or is it not a concern? I think he orders the bamboo quilting as one piece…It’s nice to sleep on in the showroom (the bamboo) but if its almost an inch thick, I don’t want that to be a limiting factor of the mattress? But then again he’s always open to modding the bed post-market if it fails.

EDIT: Hmm Joe made mention that it may not be all natural latex. I haven’t spoken to Mauricio in awhile. Would it be a concern if it wasn’t? I read a post from another thread about the SBR compound…

65

Looks like the foam supplier is Valle? Think I’ll pull the trigger tomorrow. Joe mentioned that the foam is not likely all natural, but I’m wondering how bad SBR would be (if it is SBR), or if it would be better to go with memory foam if those are my choices.

66

Hi Hobotrader,

As I mentioned in post #56 … Valle foam is one of the major suppliers in the area. They produce polyfoam and memory foam and supply latex from other manufacturers. If the Dunlop latex is from Latex Green then it’s likely to be all natural Dunlop. If it’s made by another latex manufacturer then their information would be more accurate than my speculation :slight_smile:

This would be based on personal preference. You can read more about some of the differences in NR vs SBR in post #6 here but even blended Dunlop is a very durable material and would be more durable than memory foam. In terms of feel and performance … that would be up to your body to decide :slight_smile:

Phoenix

67

So I went back to Springmade with 2 choices:

  1. memory foam - felt comfortable, could side sleep, but I felt it sleeping hot within 15 minutes which was fine since the store was cold. After 15 minutes I could feel light sciatica. So bringing it home to room temperature or even summer and sleeping on it, it might sink enough to cause issues.

  2. latex on poly - felt pretty hard but had no neuro symptoms. Felt like it pressure point me (shoulders), 40 on its own was too soft, putting 4" of latex on polyfoam made it feel pretty hard. It could be due to a recent shoulder injury or cold in the store/outside (it was -9 today). It’s hard to know if it’ll work unless I slept on it for a night. I think support is good but it is a bit too firm for me. The latex is 100% natural confirmed by Mauricio.

I ended up going for the latex with the logic that it won’t sink and it caused no neurological problems. Things got a bit better on the shoulders with a pillow. At the end I put 1" thick layer of latex over and it was pretty comfortable. I figure its better to get firm so that you can always fix/dampen the bed with a topper than memory foam which is more unpredictable with its sink. I don’t think I’ll be able to get something dead on unless latex came in a 44-50 in Canada. They can always mod the bed for little cost. Any ideas? Reduce the ILD of the latex? Put a 1 inch memory foam layer on top? The bed had already been built but its on display. Looks like other clients with back problems loved it but it was outside their price range (850 for double, and goes for 1.1k at Queen/King size)

With my back problems Mauricio said shopping for a bed could be a lot like a roulette wheel just since pain is very unpredictable based on position etc.

68

Hi Hobotrader,

I would take this on a step by step basis. I think given your circumstances and experiences you’re probably wise to avoid the memory foam. It would almost certainly be a lot softer and you would sink in more over the course of the night than what you experienced.

I also think it’s wise to go firmer than softer because you can always fine tune a mattress that is firmer than you need or prefer with a topper but you can’t really “fix” a mattress that is too soft.

I would tend to start where you are and sleep on it for a while and then decide on any adjustments based on your actual experience rather than theory. You are already so far outside of the averages sleeping directly on 40 ILD Dunlop (that is typically used as a firm support layer rather than a comfort layer) over ultra firm poly that I would trust your local testing over anything I would suggest.

I would keep in mind that the top 3-4" are more about your pressure relief and the lower layers are more about your support (although they interact together and are interconnected). Having softer comfort layers may allow you to sink in to the comfort layers a little more (which would affect pressure relief) and would have little to no effect on alignment (or could even improve it if your shoulders don’t sink in far enough to the firm latex) but it seems that any kind of sinking in, even for the sake of potentially better pressure relief, is not your preference so I would think of what you are getting now as a starting point to test the “theory” that a mattress this firm really will sleep the way you want it to over the longer term. It would also leave you with good options if you need to add some extra softness to the mattress.

Phoenix

69

Gotcha, I’ll hold it for a week and test it out. I’ll use toppers after and I’ll see whatever works. If it works then I can integrate it into the quilting after a modification request later (hope they won’t kill me for this). It’d be 50 delivery/labour + material. Mauricio said he could add another inch of softer latex in the comfort layer (50-75)…At the end of the shopping experience we did throw on an inch of foam on top and that seemed to resolve a bit of the pressure issues. As the bed is not made yet it’s easier to make a mod now than after it’s delivered.

What do you think of memory foam on top of latex? Chris had a bed for 1.2k and it worked pretty well…but at the time I didn’t know much about Toronto’s inventory. I figure it’s disposable and it takes out the weak link in the mattress and puts it as a disposable exterior.

Yeah the 40 was ‘almost there’ but the cement foam support core might have over-killed it. Would making 5-6 inches as a comfort layer be kind of redundant since its too far from support? I’m wondering if I should use reduced ILD. The thing is, they made it for me to test so it goes on the piss off factor. They said they can sell the inventory if its laying around in the shop but I think they’re going to ship what I tested since all their display models are queen (this was a double - as per my request). I was wondering if he threw the 6" pure onto the cement foam sample, but I guess that’s the same as having a mattress on a box/floor. We don’t have the ILD value of the cement foam (it’s a yellow sponge btw).

Also, when I tested the mattresses, the poly-memory foam was sitting on a box, whereas the poly-latex was sitting on a slatted platform bed. I remember you saying a box can make a huge difference in how it feels. I think I will be getting a box so hopefully that’ll reduce the pressure pointing. I remember at Foamite how the agent wanted to 51 the center, and 40 ILD the top/bottom in a 3 zone construction to accommodate heavy needs of the back and lighter needs of the shoulder. But I side sleep now because back sleeping causes problems. If I get shoulder relief it could be the perfect bed, it’s just how much I piss them off in modification requests and modification nature - sadly this would be cheaper than anywhere else even with additional charges.

*Review

Springmade was a great store overall. Mauricio is very knowledgeable, he runs delivery from what I’ve seen. Joe stays back and runs the store and overseas the manufacture of beds (having made many himself). From what I saw, people don’t want to pay more than 600-800 for a bed - a woman came in with back problems, said the bed I had them construct was perfect but walked away when she heard the price of 1.1k for a King (which is outstanding value for 4" latex and a 6" polycore). Good service overall (always responsive on phone and voicemail), great value, and friendly service…and the ability to custom make and modify. It really reduces the financial risk of everything (a big plus since I thought I’d be dumping thousands on purchasing and dumping beds). I’ll keep you posted on delivery. It’s to come next Saturday, they can aim the delivery in a 2 hour window vs. 6 hours of Sears (causes problems with condo elevator bookings).

You’re right so far it’s a good ‘foundation’ but I’m sure I’ll have to make little modifications here and there or even just using simple toppers could fix the issue. At least I know the content inside the mattress is premium stuff.

Thanks for all your help. I’ll keep reviewing the service and the bed feel. I’m glad we can get a cheaper location like this in Toronto that knows what they’re doing. Though I’m wondering how much tolerance they can have with my neurosis and perfectionism.

BTW cost for a double (full) mattress + box set = $850 - 4" latex and 6" poly core. $750 for 5 pound memory foam 4" and 6" poly + box. I think that cement foam support core is a little insane though, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever slept on. They have cheaper spring inventory. It’s a medium sized showroom with a massive factory at the back - almost same setup as Chris at Dreamtime but he has a much bigger showroom.

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Hi Hobotrader,

I would be tempted to do this … but only because I keep thinking about how firm a layer of 40 ILD dunlop would be to sleep on directly. In the end it would be a decision that you would need to make based on your own testing experiences.

Memory foam in higher density can be a very durable material and in thinner layers in higher density I don’t think of it as a weak link. My personal preference is thinner layers of memory foam sandwiched inbetween layers of latex 9thinner on top and perhaps thicker underneath) becasue I prefer a more resilient surface tbut this also goes against more traditional thinking which benerally puts the memory foam over the latex. Either way it is a hybrid "feel’ between the two very different materials and assuming both are good quality versions this would also be a preference choice.

If any topper is separate from the mattress itself and replaceable (either as a layer inside a single zip cover or as a separate topper regardless of material) … it certainly has advantages because it can be easily exchanged with changing comfort needs or if it wears out faster.

Some of the other modifications you are suggesting or thinking about are just too different from what you are testing and the differences between them much too complex and “theoretical” for me to make any meaningful comments that would be relevant. I would stay with smaller variations of what you have tested rather than going into a completely different design. Enough to say that thicker layers over the same support core would indeed dramatically reduce the effect of the deeper polyfoam but would add its own qualities to the mattress. It may provide better or worse alignment depending on how evenly you sank into it but it would be more like a solid latex layer rather than latex modified by the firmness of the polyfoam below it.

If both of these (the box and the slatted platform) were both non flexing and rigid they would be very similar if not identical in terms of what they contributed to the feel and performance of a mattress. The “difference” I was referring to was between a flexing “box spring” that flexed under pressure and a figid non flexing surface. If the “box” you are referring to was rigid and didn’t flex … they would be very close if not the same.

Thanks once again for all the other comments and feedback … it will be very helpful for others in the Toronto area and you’ve been a great “test case” :slight_smile:

Phoenix

71

I think I will request another inch. I’ll go back tomorrow and test since I have an errand day. I think an extra inch won’t hurt, should cost under 100, probably 50-75 bucks. If it doesn’t work on delivery then I can order a topper.

Well the 40 ILD latex on its own was much too soft. It was comfortable but I didn’t feel like I was getting good support from it. Mauricio also commented that my spinal alignment was off with the pure 40 ILD while side sleeping. So I think the poly overshot it towards the firm side, I feel that extra inch can bring it back to the latex side - comfortable. So it’s going to ‘almost there, just a bit too soft’ to ‘almost there, just a bit too firm’. Though putting 5-6" in the mattress of latex, isn’t that kind of like throwing latex onto a box/floor?

Worst case scenario are is either the latex or memory foam toppers…

I’ll see how they react, good customer service can really be seen with neurotic or finicky clients that can test patience. In any case, it doesn’t hurt to check out the merchandise once again if in the area.

No prob, I’m probably getting more out of this site than I’m putting in. I was talking to a friend about businesses (he’s a business guy) and he said I should supplement my wage with an additional business but I’d have to find something I was interested in. This is probably an area I’d be interested in (as far as tangible materials go) though with a bad back doesn’t seem likely. Seems like there’s a huge knowledge/quality gap in the markets. I think if there was an ad campaign about emphasizing material quality and transparency that might help out a lot - too many people have bad mattress experiences. Margins on mattresses are also high as well. I could extrapolate it based on modification cost vs. price I paid.

72

So I went in to test it again. It felt a lot better. It might have to do with the shoulder injury I had earlier and testing softer beds before moving to that one. In any case…toppers if necessary. Mauricio was right in the sense that he can predict consumer needs.

Looks like they lost their domain name from before so this is their new website: http://www.springmademattress.ca/

The area around them is pretty poor, notorious Jane and Finch of Toronto (basically like Central Park in 80s). It was nice of them to take inventory risk and construct the bed for me (Joe said they can sell it, Mauricio said the bed I had constructed would have taken months to sell based on the price point). The only retail people (I think they’re primarily a wholesaler) that frequent there are locals (75%) and a the minority of people that know what they’re doing or material hunting. The turnaround time for a bed is 2 days. I’m shocked at how fast they got that latex prototype ready - I requested it Wednesday, it was done Friday. I think 4 days was the fastest turnaround time I had in Toronto (Chris), Foamite said a few weeks, at least 2. Great shopping experience though for me, any flaw would probably come from my unpredictable back issues. They’re the best value/price I found in the area with the best turnaround time and best customization capability based on what I saw. I think the most professional and knowledgeable people I’ve spoken to in my search was Mauricio and the agents at Foamite - though at Foamite the value is shoddy as is turnaround time as you had stated. I was shocked to realized how much polyfoam costs…it certainly isn’t 1400 for a bed, and 1700 for a set…Couldn’t get Latex either but at least we found out why. Toronto is a funny place as far as mattresses go.

73

Hi Hobotrader,

Thanks for their new website. I’ve updated the Toronto list.

That’s for sure. I lived there for about 5 years and Jane and Finch wasn’t my favorite area of town … or the safest or friendliest either :slight_smile:

Phoenix

74

So I received the new bed. The delivery went smoothly despite the snowstorm - pretty friendly delivery guys (I think they’re permanent staff). The mattress is sitting atop a solid plywood base.

A few things - I noticed that on one side (along the length), the Eurotop is kinda creased, something is poking out through the side and feels like cardboard. It isn’t uniform so one half of the length has a different height and intensity of protrusion than the other half of the length. Once my parents come back I can have them re-flip the mattress and I can take a picture, any idea what that is? From my first impression it seemed like pieces of foam that aren’t squarely placed on each other? I’m thinking its a cardboard stabilizer because it feels too hard to be latex. The other side of the Eurotop it looks smoother, though the top half isn’t as firm as the bottom half. [This is a 4" 40 ILD latex layer [default eurotop] on cement foam]

As for sleeping I can feel pressure points on my ribs sleeping on the side - though if I move it could disappear. On the back I just get a lot of resistance/kickback. It feels like some parts of the mattress have harder parts than others but that may be the un-evenness in my muscular structure given the injury and muscle guarding. To have an objective test, both parents will test out the bed tonight. Today it feels too firm =/. I haven’t slept on it beyond 20 minutes I was fine at the store for 30 min…I don’t know if its the mattress or me so I’m having other family members test. This is the exact same bed tested in the showroom…

I have a very sensitive body to uneven/unequal pressure, which was why I liked the simplicity of a 6" latex core/comfort layer. While 40 ILD was comfortable, I did not believe it offered adequate support. I’m hesitant to go back and tell them this in case I frustrate them. I think a 45-50 ILD latex would have been perfect, no room for error.

If it’s just me (no one can find a problem) then I’ll just get a memory foam topper. So long as the bed is uniform it should work out. Though given all the trouble, I’m tempted to just use 4" memory foam with the floor as my support core. I like the floor, it just pokes my lumbar and shoulders after awhile.

One thing I noticed though, if I lie on my floor or office floor I’m fine. In a friend’s apartment where he has denser higher quality floors, I experience more pain walking or lying on the floor. This bed seems to transfer my own gravitational force back into me - springs sorta absorb that weight.

75

I received the bed delivery was pretty clean despite all the snow, friendly delivery staff. I wrote a prior message but I think I had a silk mattress protector on it that drastically increased its firmness. It’s sitting atop a flat board by the way, one solid piece of plywood I would guess, but my bottom is a crazy polyfoam anyway. Heh Sears box springs are basically metal dowels arranged in a grid.

I’ll test the bed out over the week. The previous post (I deleted) was talking about how there were creases along the length of the eurotop and was wondering if it was a concern. My parents just said it’s probably just unevenly cut latex so some protrude out some sides. They did say my bed was difficult to make due to the sizing (half a day vs. 10-20 min for standard production bed). Do the sides have cardboard to hold the content in though? I guess to protect the latex? So here’s a physics question for you, does it matter if its 1 solid piece of latex or pieces of latex slabbed together?

Heh, had I known the mattress protector would be that significant maybe I could have bought the 40 ILD 6 incher after all. The last paragraph of my deleted post talked about having a 45-50 ILD pure latex would have easily solved the problem since it’s so simple. Mauricio said he had this compound that started with an “S”? Stetzel? That he could put under the mattress to firm it up…The 40 ILD latex was very comofrtable but unfortunately not supportive enough, I wonder if the ‘stetzel?’ and the silk mattress protector would have hedged that out. The cement foam turns the firmness into a mystery number hahah. If I have a problem of it referring too much force back into me, what’s the best way of fixing that? More latex at lower ILD? I think I’ve slept on springs my whole life that I’m unadjusted to foam - it seems to send more force into you rather than springs that seem to absorb some of your weight (mass x gravity). Seems like this will be an ongoing experiment for me just because back injuries make your back so sensitive (took 3 days for my parents to realize there was something wrong with the Stearns and Fosters).

76

Hi Hobotrader,

I’m glad to see that you’re sleeping on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’d probably need to see a picture to know for sure but they would be able to tell you much more whether it’s “normal” or something “unusual” and t could just be that they left the Eurotop looser so that it would have less effect on the softer surface. Creasing or wrinkles in smooth top mattresses vs quilted mattresses is not that unusual.

I didn’t realize your mattress was an odd size. What size did you get?

I’ve never seen cardboard in the side panels but I guess anything is possible. You would need to ask them though. The side panels of a mattress will often use a thicker woven fabric.

If you mean individual layers one on top of each other … then loose multiple layers will generally be a little softer than the same thickness in a single layer in the same ILD. This difference would disappear if the layers were glued.

If you mean pieces that are glued together to form a single layer … then generally you won’t feel the glue seam with the type of flexible water based latex glue that is usually used but you may feel some inconsistency between the pieces if they have a different density or ILD depending on the degree of difference.

I don’t kow what this is.

Once you’ve slept on it then it would be easier to make suggestions based on actual symptoms if its necessary. Pressure has no “direction” when you are sleeping on the mattress without movement (it provides increasingly resistant compression until all forces are balanced in all areas of the contact surfaces of the body and mattress) and then its just a matter of pressure in specific areas of the body. If a mattress doesn’t provide enough pressure relief … then either softer or thicker comfort layers of some type to either equalize the pressure or to provide pressure point specific relief is the most common solution. A more flexible base or a tension adjustable base can also provide some extra “give” under certain areas if the mattress isn’t too thick.

As to the rest … you are far away from any kind of “averages” so any “theoretical” comments probably wouldn’t be very helpful unless you had specific “symptoms” from sleeping on the mattress that I may be able to help with :slight_smile:

Phoenix

77

Hmm I think I may have found a solution. So the problem is that the cement foam basically exerts a stronger normal force (force that pushes back against your gravitational weight) than my other mattresses - I feel a strong kickback from it and my spine muscles tense causing my arms to go numb. My groin also feels numb’ish but I have something called pudendal neuralgia. With that you want to keep pressure off the butt, but if a mattress is too soft it might upset that L5S1-sciatic site causing the left leg to go numb…It’s a hard trade off. Looking at the pudendal neuralgia forums - it seems like people are buying Tempurpedic toppers (at least 3") to be able to sleep on their back without urologic nerve issues (though they probably don’t have complicating L5S1 sciatic issues). I think for the past while I have been side sleeping - but it’s not possible on this new mattress. I think I’m just learning more about my condition (I had no idea what pudendal neuralgia was awhile ago) - I thought my problems were just about spinal flexion causing the disc to touch the transversing S1 nerve root.

So all in all, I should have taken the memory foam lol…it’s bad for my left leg but the pudendal nerve symptoms scare me more than the sciatic (it’s more up close and personal). And I have the option of side sleeping.

My family laid down on the bed and found no defects, they’ll try tonight. I’m not going to sleep on my mattress after all because I’m getting symptoms I had in December which basically makes me want to run for the ER. Learn something new everyday.

I’ll call Monday to ask for a topper, though 3" memory foam topper on 4" of latex on top of a crazy hard polyfoam core? I should have just went with the memory foam mattress - I could side sleep on it =). Sorry about the mess, I’m still learning more about my body since it’s recently injured and deteriorating - looks like I have to balance firmness for sciatica but enough give or comfort for the pudendal neuralgia. Joe said a 1" 5.3 lbs memory foam mattress topper should be $100-120?

As for the creases or bends of the Eurotop, I can take pictures once the bed is flipped. Parents are losing patience with me - and being injured I can’t move the mattress (I used to be able to lift in the 300 pound area lol - so quite a step down). I will call about the creases and whether it was 1 4" piece or multiple pieces - multiple pieces would explain the protrusions but it could very well be some hard material to prevent damage to frail latex. Better to call than to speculate I suppose.

Thanks for all your help, it is becoming an odd request but I have very odd conditions…probably better not to have worked out at all lol…

As a random note, this bed is awesome for stomach sleeping though.

78

Hi Hobotrader,

There are different types or what I call different “species” of softness and each has a different meaning and serves a different function in a mattress design. Both are necessary.

The comfort layers need to be soft enough to relieve pressure. This evens out the weight distribution along the body surface and is necessary to maintain good circulation and maintain blood flow and nerve function. The thickness and softness of the comfort layers also have a secondary function which is to fill in the “gaps” in the sleeping profile and maintain “lighter” support under the recessed curves of the spine to maintain their natural curvature. This softer layer provides one of the two main functions of a mattress. It provides the “softness” that is connected to pressure relief. It “allows” sinking in to the degree that is necessary.

The support layers need to be firm enough to “stop” the heavier parts of the body (primarily the pelvis) from sinking down too far and maintaining neutral alignment of the spine. If the pelvis is allowed to sink down too far or not enough then it will tilt anteriorly or posteriorly which changes the natural shape of the lumbar curve which can lead to discomfort and pain … and aggravate injuries.

I’m not a doctor of course but it seems to me that this could certainly be true of the L5S1 site which would be particularly prone to pelvic tilt and of course direct pressure if the disc was pressing directly on the nerve roots.

It also appears that this would be the more important issue of the two when you are sleeping because Pudendal Neuralgia doesn’t appear to be an issue when you are lying down.

Of course you’ve probably done more research than I have into the conditions you are facing and potential remedies or ways to alleviate them but it just seems to me that you are looking at the overall firmness of the mattress without differentiating the different functions of the comfort layer and the support layer. A memory foam layer could certainly provide the comfort layer that I believe you will likely need but so could other materials. This would be a matter of preference.

Supporting pillows in various areas (under the knees on the back and in between the knee on the side) may also be helpful to relieve pressure.

Just some food for thought that may or may not apply to your circumstances :slight_smile:

Phoenix

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Thanks for looking these things up to better help me.

So I think with my polyfoam core that’s way more than enough support hahah, that thing can probably used to bludgeon people to death. As for comfort layer…well the latex was great as 40 standalone but atop that cement polyfoam it’s pretty merciless - my parents like it though. I think it being too firm might have shut off blood or neuronal action potentials causing changes in muscle tension which can affect peripheral nerves? That’s why I find it weird that I can lie on the floor or anything else but when I lie on that bed my pudendal symptoms flare up - my Stearns and Fosters was also very firm. Got the idea from this thread: Sleeping positions and lying down - Health Organization for Pudendal Education
Memory Foam for sitting or lying? - Health Organization for Pudendal Education

You’re right though, i was looking at overall firmness rather than functional layering. I noticed that with the Simmons beauty rest, felt plush on top but solid support - but that upset the sciatica. I figure I can wholesale firm the entire thing and not have to worry but I think the uncomfort layers are doing more harm than good. This is a tough call, my alignment looked fine from the side while testing. Memory foam though, I don’t seem to mind. It worked ok other than light sciatica, but I’d take sciatica over groin issues anyday - I used to think it was all disc and all caused by mattress sag but nope…muscles can also have an effect on lower body neuropathy. I’ll have to think more along the lines that you’re suggesting, having a comfortable comfort layer. That might mean memory foam. I remember testing a Tempurpedic last year and that stopped the symptoms. This year it was light sciatica but at least on memory foam I can sleep on my sides =/…Now its a matter of replacing latex with memory foam or using a topper…

The bed I tried before had 4" of memory foam, perhaps I could use 3" so the polyfoam can kick in sooner before that pelvis sinks too far. With reinforced 40 ILD latex I’m probably not sinking enough.

I just read your progressive layering, looks like I’ll be in that ‘adjustment problem’ since I’m so outside of average. Thanks for the paradigm check though. I think I veered off thinking that a single ILD latex can be both comfort and support and basically stuck to the idea there should be latex in the mattress and that firmer is better. Now that I’ve done a little thinking today, I don’t mind sleeping hot. I used to want a heatpad to sleep on but memory foam would let me use my own bodyheat. It’s also cold in the winter. Summer I can probably put a latex layer on top. I’ll figure it out from here. Thanks for your help!

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Looks like a 2" latex topper goes for 220-240 - Springmade vs. Dreamtime
Memory foam 2" topper goes for 180-190 - Springmade vs. Dreamtime

My only concern is if it buy it, can I be guaranteed that it’ll work…The price doesn’t bother me too much.

This will be my de facto comfort layer since I screwed up the bed construction lol. It might be better to use a topper to dampen the effect of the normal force of the polyurethane. I’m leaning more towards the latex after seeing this - while I probably won’t react to memory foam I don’t like the idea of VOCs - took some toxicology classes back in the day to realize that you don’t have to have symptoms for bad stuff to happen to your body:

http://www.chem-tox.com/guest/guestbook.html