Open to any opinion -Why is this mattress buying so Hard?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
33

ā€œGood for him. Thatā€™s a sign of an ethical dealer that would rather lose a sale than sell you a mattress that they are reasonably certain wouldnā€™t be suitable for you.ā€
YES HE ALSO HAD A TEMPORARY SOLUTION FOR ME HE SAID AND CALLED NEW YEARS EVE BUT NEVER LEFT A MESSAGE.I WAS ILL THAT EVE,SO NO IDEA HE CALLED WITHOUT A MESSAGE.ANYWAY HE SOLD MY SOULUTION ,AND I REALIZE EVERYONE MUST MAKE MONEYā€¦I ASKED WHAT THE TEMP SOLUTION WAS AND HE WOULDNā€™T TELL MEā€¦SO I GUESS I MISSED OUT . I COULD BE SOLD THE PROPER FIRMNESS IN A GREENSLEEP PROBABLY.
THEN HE CALLED TO FINALIZE A SALE ON PHONE,I WAS TOO ILL TO REALLY SPEAK AT THAT TIME.AND NOT READY WITH MY FINAL DECIISON.

AS FOR THE BOX TO THE BERKLEY THE BERKLEY LADY THINKS IT WOULD BE OK BUT IT HAS TO COME TO HIS SHOP.IF THAT WERE MY CHOICE THEN I WOULD LIKE BOTH BOX AND BED, SINCE ITS MY BED,AND MY CHOICE.

ANYWAY I HAVE DISCOVERED SOME POSSIBILITYS AFTER MUCH SEARCHING AND LEARNING FORM THIS SITEā€¦THERE ARE TWO -3 FINALISTS ,HERE THEY ARE.

1-A CUSTOM MADE CERTIFIED GOL ORGANIC,6 INCH CORE MEDIUM FIRM DUNLOP LATEX,NEXT LAYER A 2 IN MEDIUM SOFT DUNLOP AND LASTLY A 2.5- 3 IN INCH SOFTEST TALALAY LATEX FOR PRESSURE RELIEF.THIS WOULD BE "DOUBLE "WRAPPED IN THE SOFTEST ORGANIC NATURAL COTTON .DELIVERED AND WITH A FULL WARRANTY.REASONABLE PRICE.

2- ESSENTIA WOULD RULE FOR HEALING AND PRESSURE POINTS.BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE 8 INCHES OF LATEX AND 2 INCHES SOFT FOAM ON TOP. CUSTOM MADE.UNSURE IF THIS IS POSSIBLE

3-WOULD LIKE TO TRY THE OSLO BERLKELY BED THAT WOULD BE THIRD.

STILL CONSIDERING ALTERNATIVES AS TO WHAT IS AVAILABLE TO ME NOW. BUT SO MUCH CLOSER.
THANK YOU.

34

Hi kayla,

Ouch ā€¦ my eyes!

All caps are the equivalent of ā€œyellingā€ on a forum and are very difficult to read :unsure:

Iā€™m assuming that this means that you are ruling this option out unless you can try it first ā€¦ is that correct?

If this is correct then that means you are currently down to two ā€œfinalistsā€ unless you are also considering some of the other options I was asking about in my previous reply.

You appear to have several other alternatives that you havenā€™t considered yet (depending on your reply to my previous post) but if these are your two ā€œfinalistsā€ then I would choose between them based on the 3 most important parts of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase in post #13 here.

These are ā€¦

  1. Your confidence that both of these mattresses would be a good match for you in terms of PPP. This is the most important part of the value" of a mattress purchase.

  2. Checking to make sure that neither of these mattresses have any weak links in their design relative to your weight.

3: Deciding which of these two mattress are the best ā€œvalueā€ based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Only you can decide about #1 (testing for suitability) based on your own personal testing or experience.

For #2 (checking for durability) ā€¦

Option #1: If the latex in this option is the softest available Talalay (14 - 15 ILD) then would be less durable at your weight than firmer latex layers and may be a weak link in the mattress. Having said that ā€¦ if this would be a separate topper or is a component mattress with separate layers inside a zip cover then it can be easily replaced without replacing the whole mattress so the durability of any individual layer may be less important relative to your ā€œcomfortā€ and PPP.

Option #2: Assuming they can do a custom build ā€¦ whether this has any weak links would depend on the type and quality/durability of any ā€œsoft foamā€ they would be using in the upper layers.

#3 (comparing for value): How each of your mattresses compares to the other finalist you are considering based on all the other criteria that are important to you would include the prices of course as well as the options each of them have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or return the mattress just in case your choice doesnā€™t turn out as well as you hoped for when you actually sleep on your mattress in ā€œreal lifeā€.

Questions (in addition to the questions in my last post)

  1. Have you tested both of these specific mattresses and designs in person as you would purchase them?

  2. If you have ā€¦ how confident are you that both of them are a good match for you in terms of PPP?

  3. If you havenā€™t tested them in person or you arenā€™t completely confident that they are a suitable match for you then are you completely comfortable with the options you would have after a purchase if your choice turns out to be a ā€œmistakeā€ in terms of PPP?

  4. What are the exchange or return options for each of your finalists?

  5. What are the prices (delivered) for each of your finalists?

One step at a time ā€¦ and hopefully you still have the time to consider some of the other options I asked about in my previous reply which may be better value than either of the mattresses that are currently in your list of finalists.

Phoenix

35

Phoenix
Urgent -TY for your help but I may have found the bed I need at a good price.
Sorry about the caps ughh I couldnt see them, my apologies
I have specific question -
Now i may have found my bed with some choices.
I will list them
1-4 in top 24 ld talay latex then 1inch memory foam then5 inches of a poly strong foam -tried very soft but donā€™t sink thru floor model -inexpensive -onlu flaw may be a bit too soft but nice pressure relief and builder transparent . All the following beds work on adjustable .
2-2 -3 in talaly same density and the rest a softer poly -nice firm -less pressure relief and no memory foam in core .
3 -custom 3 in talaly on top of 7 in poly -firm yet supportive and this would be interesting because the core is fairly soft but supportive . Was able to try in 2 in latex and poly. Wanted to add 1 in of latex more top for pressure relief.
4 -3 in new cool memory foam and 7 inches poly core . Nice supportive but the memory foam is less so easier to move and cooler . Still memory foam and was concerned about that . Also tried with 2 in memory foam comfy but needed more pressure relief.
I did not sink thru any of these 24 ILD is soft and I liked it .i have no clue on the poly but no objection either do you ?
Is poly a bad core ? It can be very supportive And bends well. Curious whst you make of these 4 custom beds for me.
I liked number 1fir softness and Nimber 3 fior support . Although I dunk thru none of them and I got to try all of them ,
Iā€™m so happy and they are good prices . I would ask for your opinion on poly core and soft latex on these configurations. ?
I can have number 1 right away and the rest on a week. I am thinking to move away from memory foam as it is not as movable. However bed number 1was great IT was bouncy ! A concern . Bed 3 was much firmer and less expensive foam core but still soft .
I may just get my bed before mon next week. Prices are in the 18000 range . I would appreciate your thoughts knowing my weight and arthritis -fibro issues thank you so much !
Ps pretty excited to find bed possibilities . Wondering if poly with a water based glue is ok? I need to order soon. TY :slight_smile:

36

Hi Kayla,

[quote]i have no clue on the poly but no objection either do you ?
Is poly a bad core ? It can be very supportive And bends well. Curious whst you make of these 4 custom beds for me.[/quote]

If you can provide the information here about the mattresses you are considering then Iā€™d be happy to make some comments about the materials inside them or help you identify any potential weak links in their design. Without this information itā€™s not possible for me to make any meaningful comments about a mattress.

$18,000 ??? :unsure:

All I can say to this is that the price of a mattress isnā€™t related to whether it would be suitable for you in terms of PPP and you are in a budget range that is very much higher than you would need to find a suitable, durable, and good value mattress IMO. Are they really that much more suitable, more durable, and are the differences between them and many other mattresses that are in much lower budget ranges really enough to justify that kind of price?

Post #2 here and the posts it links to has more information about safe, natural, organic, ā€œchemical freeā€, and green mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable having in your mattress and help you answer ā€œhow safe is safe enough for meā€. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, and specific criteria. Water based glue is generally a ā€œsafeā€ material and polyfoam that is CertPUR certified would also be ā€œsafeā€ enough for most people although some people that are more sensitive (or have issues such as MCS or multiple chemical sensitivity) may still choose to avoid it.

Phoenix

37

Oh I am so sorry using i phone I meant 1800 thatā€™s better right?
And it is dorimer Beds -here in town
-so sorry -the foam is ceripur they have a website -on rethinking the 4 in tally latex is very soft and probably not good but the support in bed is okay With the foam. Pressure relief good but I remrmber someone saying can make a bed softer but not a soft be harder ?
So I will ask about the poly tomorrow as I read your blog1.8 right for someone like me?
Also bed number 3 uses a cheaper poly a bit softer -I will ask density of that as well.
The only one available immediately is bed number 1 floor model-
This one is the softest but after this tempur madness of soft am not sure. Again this is latex I can only imagine not pure and bed is floor model for 3 years ? Asking about that too price us 1600 on that.
Ok I must decide to get out of memory foam or not and o am leaning to get out as it is just too hard to move .
As I said love hate with memory foam but this latex is comiserable in pressure point relief.
I donā€™t object to poly at all. Beds 3 and 4 use a different poly much less expensive than bed 1and bed 2?
It is indeed softer but still ok for a support later.

Are you familiar with dorimer ? The man was very transparent and fair price.

If I have one made he can do it in3 days . He says all beds smell a bit and it is not like tempur.
If the poly is good I only am concerned with the comfort layer.
I am also reluctant to buy s floor model 3 yrs old but this bed holds up -makes one wonder?
My neck is holding me up in tempur I think . And I have the surgery next week.
Then there is essentia who will make an8 inch bed Ina week or so BUT THEY say it is fine at any weight ? Not sure about that one and 8 in too small for my poor knee. This is a big question mark here ?
So as. I said before my best bed would be 3 in soft talaly with 6 in latex core? What is the difference between 3 in talaly top and 7 inch poly core? Now I am confused on poly does it support like latex core? Cause I could not tell the difference . The tempur is poly core and 5 in memory foam . Terrible bed soft worn out bad so I am really leaning to latex top. I asked why 1 in of memory foam inside bed number 1abd they said it was for softness so the foam must be very hard underneath?
He said if he made me a bed they would use a softer cheaper poly than in bed 1 -I have to ask density donā€™t i? Lastly not sure about a 3 yr old floor model when new it is 2000 and a different foam

The floor model is called s dream weaver. So have you heard of this company and what do you think? This is so hard cause I just want anything but the bed I have right now. But can wait a week to get right one made. You are so right it is s matter of finding the alance between support and comfort layers not an easy task .
But you must be aware of the company right?
Can you let me know ?
TY for your prompt answer appreciate that . Sorry about the typo.

38

Hi kayla,

Whew ā€¦ thatā€™s a little more reasonable.

It would be lower density than I would be comfortable with at your weight. You can see the guidelines I would suggest in post #4 here and there is also more detailed information in post #3 here that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges.

Iā€™m not personally familiar with them or their mattresses outside of what is on their website but they are on the Calgary list as one of the ā€œbetter options or possibilitiesā€. Of course outside of PPP ā€¦ any mattress is only as good as itā€™s construction and the quality of the materials inside it regardless of which manufacturer makes it.

Phoenix

39

My apologies -this is what sleep deprivation does-of course it is energia foam and dorimer on the list you sent me.
Well Iā€™m any future beds they are not using inergia so he said if I special order he doesnā€™t know what the foam will be like.
I am not sure but would like energia rather than an unknown foam.
I am hoping I can order a bed with that foam and 3 inches latex on top which would be great .
My understanding is that they will not be using that foam and cannot guarantee new foam .
So what to do? Take a risk order new one ? Or floor model which is soft but contains inergia?
How can I custom order when I donā€™t know the density of the foam?
He said it would be softer energia just too expensive.
So custom is s risk .
Going organic is way too expensive , I donā€™t mind foam at all. But he clearly stated I would not know what I would be getting .
Going to try to ask for inergia if custom made also any other bed than floor model will have new foam in it so its all risky now .
And where are they getting their latex?
So many questions so little time.
Also still in the running are ā€”OMI bed 3600 but seller will definately not take it out if the box??? Why o wonder?
Essentia but losing interest and very suspicious now?
I have a Berkeley topper on hold and retail guy says must buy now as he has no room in his store that would be TMASC I have a 200 dollar deposit and he offered to deliver the 1000 dollar topper for 85 $ but I donā€™t have room in my home to store this topper . Strange no room in a store or you lose your hold on something I will need if I order sleeptec. That is what I was told by owner -need topper and sleeptec bed. But because HE doesnā€™t have room in the store they cannot hold it for me. Confusing as what was it doing in the store in the first place? I would like an opinion on that too please?
That person is aware I have no room .
So needs me to pick it up tomorrow which o cannot do as I have no means to do it . Have to wonder what is different about this topper than the talaly dorimer uses?
As for Berkeley bed -how can I buy a bed I cannot try first and TMASC does not have thst model to try.
So these are my options .
to sum up 2 floor models and one essentia -sleeptec 10 weeks out and no soft topper.
One floor model not even possible to try.
At least I got to try dorimers floor model.
This really should be easier than this.
The ability to shop around is hampered by my pain
Signed stuck in a tempur and hurting . Lol

40

Hi kayla,

All of your questions that I can see have been answered in my previous replies about how to choose a mattress and how to minimize the risks involved in any mattress choice.

Without specific answers to the questions that Iā€™ve asked in my previous replies there is very little else I can suggest to you.

You are following a very different and more ā€œrandomā€ process for choosing a mattress than I would normally suggest but if it works for you and you are happy with it then thatā€™s all that really matters.

Iā€™m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

41

why is it random?

I have many opportunities to spend money on a bed and Virtually NONE to try even at the bloody store.
NONE that donā€™t carry a risk.
here are examples of risk
-sleeptec no trial -they do not have my configuration on display
-omi floor model no trial-doesnt want to remove form box
-berkley no trial -they do not have my model on display

and now dormer-no trial on new foam.

so these I can try
essentia
-omi beds
-greensleep(not my config)

why is this random.and who do you suggest I get to make that organic latex bottom of at least 6 in medium firm and that soft 3 in talalay top?

two of your suggested people told me to go to bariatric.
so I am plum out of ideas.
I asked my sister and she would not buy a bed she hasnā€™t tried.
I trust her.
I could fly to california i I guess or to toronto or somewhere else but that might be difficult as you can imagineā€™
any ideas cause i am plum out ā€”
except for maybe a new tempur whichI do know about and wont do- or the local big bed company
I am plum out of ideas and places to go?
Maybe you have some ideas?
as far as risk they are ALL risky.
I dont see how this process is random at all.

enough is going to be enough and will order the 6,500 OMI (Organicpedic) but of course then i will be stuck with it.

42

I have been to all of your suggestions ,ALL of them so I have nowhere to go and I am VERY upset.In tears in fact.
thanks

43

This is a very informative site ,and its good youā€™re here.
My question is,You have said that you speak with many of the mattress makers,do you speak with them specifically about the people in these forums looking for quality beds?
I was just curious,thanks.
K

44

Hi Kayla,

It seems that you may not be reading most of the information and questions in my previous replies and are ā€œjumpingā€ from one idea or mattress to another without following the steps I would normally suggest ā€œone step at a timeā€ and seeing them through until each step is complete (see my similar comments in reply #6 here as well as some of my more detailed replies in some of my other replies in this topic).

You also arenā€™t providing specific answers to my questions in many of my previous replies which makes it very difficult for me to help you any further.

A bariatric bed is designed for higher weight ranges so Iā€™m not clear why this isnā€™t a good suggestion.

If your sister has lots of experience in the industry and is very familiar with different mattress materials and designs then she may be a good source of guidance but if she isnā€™t then Iā€™m not so sure she would be the best source of guidance.

Again if you can go back and carefully re-read my previous replies and provide some specific answers to the questions Iā€™ve asked that you havenā€™t answered yet then I may be able to make some additional suggestions.

Yes ā€¦ any mattress choice has some degree of risk involved ā€¦ especially when your circumstances and health situation is more challenging ā€¦ but I have made a number of suggestions that can help in reducing risk even though it can never be eliminated.

Iā€™m not so sure that this would be the best choice for you but if you are absolutely confident enough that this would be a good match for you in terms of PPP when you sleep on it so that any return or exchange policies arenā€™t important to you and itā€™s also compares well to all your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you then it may indeed be your ā€œbest choiceā€ but it certainly wouldnā€™t be mine and I donā€™t think it would be the ā€œfinal choiceā€ choice for most people.

Phoenix

45

with all due respect,you cannot see I am desperate? I have a very worn out bed and something important approaching.perhaps this is why I am trying a ā€œdifferentā€ approach.But maybe i just have to wait?
I dont understand which questions you are looking for ?
Bariatricis not a good choice and they dont normally make queen mattresses.
it is not necessary and it was the tmasc told me that.

so If not necessary why do it ? they are much more expensive .I am still considering the sleeptek as it seems reasonable.
but what were the other questions? sorry missed them.

as for my sister ,thats just her policy and of course she has only bought her own mattresses.no she is not an expert.I will go back to post #6 and see your questions ok?

46

Kayla,

Go back through this topic and read all my posts carefully (so I donā€™t have to keep repeating the same things all over again) and you will see the questions I have asked that you havenā€™t answered yet.

Phoenix

47

ok here are the retailers i visited
1- TMSC
2-Rivas
3-dorimer
4-ikea
5-someplace whoā€™s name I forget in the south of the city
6-sleep country
7-essentia

48

I can no longer wander around with a broken knee in sub zero temps(at times) and test mattresses.I wake up screaming in pain with my leg stuck in that tempur every night.
I have to take what I can get in a mattress for interim.
at this point or suffer more with a cut up post surgery leg
I canā€™t do this anymore right now.

49

Phoenix

update on dorimer bed,and a question.
decoded not to purchase 3yr old floor model,too soft anyway.
Okay they are discontinuing their energa foam but may have enough to make one more bed,if ordering like soon.

if not it is a 3 lb foam.How is that for weight of poly?
.he says it will hold me.Your blog says not good must reread.
if making custom there are 3 choices.
1- make dreamweaver with only 3 inches talalay top ,he said i might feel the support layer maybe uncomfortable.

2- use3 lb foam with 3 inch talaly top 7 in foam =firmer bed.

3- use energia base 7 in and 3inch talaly unsure of that mix.
4- use 3 inches memory foam and 7 inches energia or 3 lb base foam ,tried it with energa went thru the memory foam and felt the core on hip,didnā€™t like that.3 inch memory foam and 7 inches 3 lb foam did not feel the core.The memory foam is new less heat better movement .
those are my choices.
again can make a bed softer with topper but cannot make soft bed harder.
So 3lb foam is softer ? Is that correct.?any idea what lb foam in tempur?

i plan to tell OMI (Organicpedic) no purchase without trial taking floor model out of box.
essentia is a wildcard for me,8 inches doesnā€™t give me height for a broken knee.

and as for berkley topper nice to have but no room in condo.

custom with dorimer is not returnable so best know what i want and need.

If i make a bed with 3lb foam will it hold me up? in your opinion?

guess thats the question.
i will reread the foam blog,and appreciate your reply.
thanks ā€¦Apologies about the mad posting ,must be pain madness,comes and goes.try not to take pain meds.

these are my finalists and if nothing works will have to consider something else.
Next to finalists are sleeptek,but it is 8 weeks out or new OMI same timeframe.

Dorimer would be a temporary solution if it didnā€™t work at least spending only 1800,not 3800. its a better risk for now.
do you agree?
thank you in advance.
K

50

For support layers I would use a guideline of 1.8 lb density for polyfoam unless once again you are in a lower budget range in which case I would use 1.5 lb density as a minimum density polyfoam support layer (support layers are not usually the weak link of a mattress). Using slightly lower quality/density support layers is a better budget tradeoff than using lower quality materials in the comfort layers. Once again though if the comfort layers are thinner and the support layer is part of the top 5" or 6" of a mattress and/or you are in a higher weight range (@ the low 200ā€™s or higher) I would consider using higher quality/density support layers as well. I would also want to make sure that any polyfoam is manufactured in North America or if itā€™s not that its CertiPur certified (or has a similar or better certification such as OekoTex).

so 3 lbs is twice that almost ,would it be supportive? for much higher weights? i would ask about CertiPur

51

Hi kayla,

As you know from my previous replies I canā€™t speak to whether any mattress would be a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how ā€œsupportiveā€ it may be (either in terms or primary or secondary support) because you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and only your own testing or sleeping experience can tell you that ā€¦ I can certainly speak to the quality/durability of the materials but I would need all the information listed here (listed in order either from top to bottom or bottom to top) to be able to make any meaningful comments about any mattress.

Phoenix

52

ok 3lb foam
then there is entergia possibly
then the memory foam is 4lbs
and the talalay is blended.
24ild
you can see the configs in my last post.
hope that works,and hey you are pretty famousā€¦most bedmakers familiar with this siteā€¦that is a Good thing.
hope this is enough info
thank you
K