Hi,
I’m looking for an organic Dunlop mattress (9" or 12") with no Talalay that does not use Kevlar threading. I’ve found a lot of mattresses out there that make use of Kevlar - does anyone have any leads please?
thanks!
Martin
Hi martinwolfsberger95,
I noticed that you registered with your email as your username which means that automated spambots will be able to harvest your email and add you to their spam lists. If you’d like I can remove the @ and the domain after it and change your username to just martinwolfsberger95 (or any username you wish).
Kevlar is often used to pass the fire regulations because with a flammable thread the needle holes or open seams can allow airflow through the fire barrier which can ignite the flammable materials underneath it and cause it to fail the test.
Having said that … I don’t know the specific thread that different manufacturers use in their mattresses and they would generally be the best source of information for these types of questions but I’ll make a few calls tomorrow to see if I can find out some information that may be helpful.
I would also keep in mind that most people that are looking for an “organic” mattress or materials are usually more concerned with “safety” than whether the materials have an actual organic certification and in many cases are confusing an organic certification with a safety certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a “safety” certification is enough.
Phoenix
I appreciate the protection from spam bots if possible - thanks very much 
As for the question of organic, I am looking at it solely from a safety point of view, and as your prior posts point out, it is a question of how safe is safe enough for me and my kids. I selected Dunlop because of the supposed lack of petroleum products and VOCs, and have been looking for GOLS/GOTS certification on the latex and the organic cotton/wool for the covering - but one store I’ve visited had arguments against Kevlar threading as defeating the whole purpose of using “safe” materials. I’ve read the MSDS on Kevlar that you have posted in your forums, and have followed the discussion - I agree that the MSDS seems to be raising a concern based on industrial levels of Kevlar dust that would not be a factor in a mattress - but the mattress store owner I spoke with raised issues about a lack of available evidence on long term effects of kevlar threading in mattresses and of the potential such a material could have in impregnating the latex during the manufacturing process. He also mentioned the toxicity of the compounds (such as 4-aminoazobenzene) that are produced as part of the Kevlar manufacturing process. I’m not saying I buy all of these arguments - but I’m at least trying to make as informed as decision as I can. And that is why I’m curious if there are other manufacturers/dealers who do not use Kevlar. This particular mattress dealer has a non-Kevlar solution that is about $1000 more than a comparable model that uses Kevlar. It seems that Kevlar is fairly prevalent in other organic latex mattresses?
thanks!!
Hi martinwolfsberger95,
The only reliable way to to assess the “safety” of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification. If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable “safety” certification then for most people they would certainly be “safe enough” … regardless of the type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label.
If the safety of a mattress is what is most important to you then a GOLS organic certification for the latex wouldn’t be relevant because it’s not a safety certification and you would also be able to consider Talalay as well as Dunlop.
All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold (which are the same safety certifications that you will find for certified organic latex) or C2C (which has only been passed by Radium which makes Talalay latex) and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is natural or synthetic or a blend of both) to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s (offgassing).
Phoenix
Hi martinwolfsberger95,
I changed your username to martinwolfsberger95 so you can log in now with your new username using the same password as you chose when you registered.
I wanted to call a few manufacturers that are making latex mattresses that use wool quilted covers as a fire barrier just to confirm that any information I provided you was reliable and consistent with their current practices. As I thought there is really no way around using some kind of fire retardant thread such as kevlar when sewing a seam to join a side panel to a top panel or sewing in a zipper because without it when you burn the mattress the seam will separate and expose the latex underneath to flame and the mattress wouldn’t pass the burn test that is required to pass the fire regulations. Fire retardant thread isn’t needed to quilt the wool in the top panel itself but it is to sew any seams.
Having said that … I completely disagree with their comments which I think are somewhat “fear mongering” and IMO there would be no reason to be concerned with the safety of any mattress that was using kevlar thread.
Phoenix
Thank you for changing my username.
I’ve spoken with a dealer who said they would not use Kevlar thread as long as I provided a Doctor’s note. So it seems like there are some workarounds in place for Kevlar.
I agree that this sounds like fear mongering - a clear interpretation of the MSDS cannot lead to this conclusion in my opinion. But the fear mongering has worked on my wife - she is concerned about the unknown, long-term effects of having our children sleep on these mattresses for so many years. Is there any concern about dealing with manufacturers who are willing to take a Dr.'s note in lieu of meeting fire regulations?
thanks again!
Hi martinwolfsberger95,
Yes … a manufacturer can make you a non compliant mattress that doesn’t pass the fire regulations if you provide them with a note from a licensed health professional in your state (see post #4 here and post #6 here).
I personally think that as low as it is … the risk involved with buying a mattress that doesn’t pass the fire regulations would probably be higher than any risk involved in using kevlar thread. It’s unfortunate that your wife is “buying into” what I consider to be very misleading information.
If you are dealing with a reputable manufacturer that is willing to make you a non compliant mattress then other than making sure that you are choosing a mattress that is suitable for your children to sleep on my main concern would be the same as with any other mattress purchase to make sure that the mattress uses good quality and durable materials.
Phoenix
I am also interested in the safety of Kevlar. I know why is it used, my question is, does it emit any VOC’s or other harmful chemicals? The Essentia mattress is wrapped in a lose Kevlar case under the organic cotton cover, and it could actually be easily removed if someone wanted a mattress without flame retardants or Kevlar. I had no reason to question the safety of Kevlar until reading this post, but I also fear the unknown, like the person who posted above said. I also am wondering why latex mattresses even have to be treated with a flame retardant or fire resistant fabric? Is latex highly flammable? I know it’s the law, but why?
Hi Am01231,
I answered with my opinion on this earlier in this thread. I personally think that as low as it is … the risk involved with buying a mattress that doesn’t pass the fire regulations would probably be higher than any risk involved in using kevlar thread.
Aramid or Para Aramid fibers (such as Nomex or Kevlar) are used in bulletproof vests and are occasionally used as a fire barrier fabric or as part of a blended fabric but they are more commonly used as the thread in other types of fire barriers. You can see a few comments about them at the end of post #13 here. You can see a Material Safety Data Sheet for Nomex here and for Kevlar here. While they are also synthetic (and some people wish to avoid all synthetic materials), I would consider them to be “safe” as well.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: nafaa.org/wiki/images/f/f0/Dupont_Nomex_MSDS.pdf| Archived Footprint 2: nafaa.org/wiki/images/8/8e/BGF_Aramids_MSDS.pdf
If you have a concern, as you mentioned, you certainly could remove the FR barrier, which some people do. Realize that in stating this I am not advocating this for anyone, because you are at that point changing the compliance of your mattress to 16 CFR Part 1632 and 1633, and compromising the safety of your mattress as it relates to that standard.
Do some research in the links I have provided and then there will be less “unknown” for you. I fear that you are going down the “rabbit hole” - reading too many things but not having the objective information in order to make an informed decision. But that’s part of what I do here!
You answered your own question. It’s because it’s the law. And foams are flammable. If you’re interested, you can see a great Chicago Tribune multi-part article here that exposes some of the myths and real motivations behind the 1633 fire retardant regulations
Phoenix.
HI Phoenix,
Like Martins wife I have also “bought into” this type of fear mongering information. As a mother of a two year old, her health the health of our family has become one of the most important things- and Yes it actually does not let me sleep at night. The fact that I have been looking for a mattress for over 2 months - and cannot get any straight answers in regards to toxicity makes me feel extremely anxious! Just add another thing to worry about. In any case - to my question- Do you have a list of any companies that will just make a mattress for me based on my specs that will only use organic materials-? We are in NYC.
Thanks so much!
Hi ninatulia,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum!
Just for a reference, I’ll copy here some of the information from my previous posts below in this thread, as having a mattress certified as “organic” (GOTS or GOLS) is not a safety certification.
The only reliable way to assess the “safety” of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification. If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable “safety” certification, then for most people they would certainly be “safe enough” … regardless of the type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label.
I would also keep in mind that most people that are looking for an “organic” mattress or materials are usually more concerned with “safety” than whether the materials have an actual organic certification and in many cases are confusing an organic certification with a safety certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a “safety” certification is enough.
All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold (which are the same safety certifications that you will find for certified organic latex) or C2C (which has only been passed by Radium which makes Talalay latex) and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is natural or synthetic or a blend of both) to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s (offgassing). If the safety of a mattress is what is most important to you then a GOLS organic certification for the latex wouldn’t be relevant because it’s not a safety certification and you would also be able to consider Talalay as well as Dunlop.
Regarding making a mattress based upon your specifications, you’d have to find a manufacturer first that was already producing a product using the materials you personally feel are safe, and then you’d have to see if they can create that product to the specifications that you desire, which might involve a note form a health care professional (see post #4 here and post #6 here ). Without knowing what actual materials you desire to use, I unfortunately can’t provide any meaningful suggestions.
Phoenix