Orig. Mattress Factory or Ultimate Dreams

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi All,

First, thanks for this excellent site. I feel like my education in mattresses increased about 8x over since I first began reading the discussions on here.

After spending the past year sleeping on an Ikea futon (beddinge, fwiw) Iā€™m looking to buy a decent mattress. The futon is very firm and Iā€™ve woken up with a lot of soreness in my hips and shoulders over the past year.

Iā€™m 6ā€™1, ~200lbs, and I sleep mostly on my side or back. Iā€™ve tried a lot of mattresses and have found that I like the Latex ones quite a bit, find the pocket coils nice except I can feel them individually, and I did enjoy the simmons comforpedic loft with the nxg foam (although I understand it isnā€™t a great valueā€¦). I like how the foam/latex mattresses donā€™t create the individual pressure spots that the coil ones seem to get.

At this point, I feel like Iā€™ve narrowed it down to either the Original Mattress Factoryā€™s 9 inch model or the ultimate dreams model. Either one in a queen size. Iā€™m hoping that maybe some outside perspective will help me decide.

Iā€™ve tried the OMF latex beds - I found the larger one to be a little too squishy, where the thinner mattress seemed to be more stable and yet still conform to my body in a way that I liked. However, I did notice that I could feel the support layer through the comfort layer in a way that concerned me at first, but I forgot about later on. The larger model was fine, except I felt a little bit too ā€˜sunkenā€™ into it. I do wonder if perhaps the ultimate dreams bed could have a decent compromise in this area, as it sounds like they can take this kind of thing into account.

The OMF would be around $1300 before shipping and a metal frame. The Ultimate Dreams would be around $700 but not include a support or frame.

Iā€™m not sure about the makeup of eitherā€¦ it sounds like the OMF is made of blended Talalay with foam quilting. The Ultimate Dreamsā€¦ ? I will say the cover to the OMF mattress was quite nice.

Longevity - again Iā€™m not too sure. It seems like maybe the Foam has a disadvantage over a flippable all latex mattress, but there could be more to it than that.

I guess for me the biggest question is, which will I sleep best on? Iā€™m aware of some of the other options out there, but they start to go into a price range that doesnā€™t feel right for me at this point in my life as an almost 32 year old. Iā€™m wondering if I would regret such a thin comfort layer when I wake upā€¦ a lot of the materials Iā€™ve read on here suggest that 2-3" is a rule of thumb for a heavier side sleeping fellow such as myself. The 9" felt good in the store, but 10-15 minutes isnā€™t really 8 hours. However, it seems like the core of the OMF model is not quite so firm as some of the other configurations Iā€™ve seen online.

Thanks!
Adam

2

Hi adam-in-pgh,

You may have seen this but there is another local manufacturer fairly close to you that also makes latex mattresses that may be worth a call or a visit. They are listed in the Pittsburgh list in post #2 here along with a few other possibilities in the area (Iā€™m assuming you are in Pittsburgh).

With the OMF latex, I would make sure you know which foundation or innerspring they were on when you did your testing. OMF tends to use an ā€œactiveā€ innerspring for all their mattresses which will make all their mattresses feel softer than they would be on a firm non flex foundation. They are unusual this way and if you test their latex I would make sure you tried it on one of their adjustable beds which are a firm surface to get a sense of what it would feel like on a firm foundation. 32 ILD with only an inch of foam over it may work well but is on the firm side for a side sleeper although it is more in the range for someone who is heavier. It is also a little on the thin side for someone who is heavier although your own careful testing (especially for any sense of pressure on your side) is always more accurate than ā€œtheory at a distanceā€ even though it may also not be perfect.

Both the OMF and the Ultimate dreams use blended Talalay latex with foam quilting layers. The layering of the Ultimate Dreams is on their site and they use a very high quality polyfoam base layer. It is true though that a two sided mattress will last longer than a single sided mattress, all other things being equal and assuming it is flipped, even with very durable foams such as latex.

Assuming that you were still happy with the OMF on a firm foundation ā€¦ then your choice between the OMF and the Ultimate Dreams would be a choice between ā€œgood and goodā€ in terms of value. While OMF is usually among the better values in the ares where they have retail outlets, in this case I would have to give the Ultimate Dreams the edge in value terms even though it doesnā€™t have a latex core. Value is only secondary to making sure a mattress meets your needs and preferences though. In the end it would boil down to the level of ā€œriskā€ you were willing to take in purchasing a mattress online but Chuck is very good in helping his customers make good choices that are suitable for their needs and preferences and working directly with the manufacturer and with a mattress where the top layer can be customized lowers the risk of an online purchase. They also carry another model here which is a little more but has a zip cover which allows for a comfort exchange for a small cost if you ā€œguessā€ wrong and which lowers the risk a little more.

There are also some good foundation choices in this thread that should cost you less than $200.

If I was in your shoes ā€¦ I would talk to Chuck to get a sense of your comfort level after a conversation with making a purchase online (either the non exchangeable model or the one where you can do a comfort layer exchange) and then make your choice based on which one you felt best about. There is really no wrong or right when the choices are all good ones and only you can really know what is best for your own ā€œvalue equationā€ :slight_smile:

Phoenix

3

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your excellent response. Yes, I am in Pittsburgh. :slight_smile:

I ended up swinging by the OMF (itā€™s only a couple minutes away) this morning to try the two latex mattresses again. I also confirmed with a salesperson that the boxsprings they are being shown on are the ones they sell with the mattress.

I paid a bit more attention to alignment and pressure this time around, rather than just the overall comfort level. I noticed that the 9 inch mattress is basically good, except there is some pressure around my thoracic when lying on my back. When on my side, I noticed that I was fairly out of alignment, although the pressure points didnā€™t seem so obvious.

I tried the larger mattress as well, and found that while I still find it to be a little bit too ā€˜squishyā€™ it was just about right in terms of avoiding pressure while on my back, and pretty good on my side, too. I still felt like I was ā€˜going throughā€™ the top layer a bit. I wonder if perhaps a comfort layer a little firmer than what they are using (17-21 ild) might suit me better.

A concern I have w/ the ultimate dreams is the use of foam - I recognize that itā€™s good quality foam and most of the reviews cite minimal outgassing - is there any info on where the foam is made? I suppose given my druthers I would have an all organic all-latex mattress, but Iā€™m not so sure thatā€™s in the cards for me at this point in time.

The exchangeable comfort layer version definitely has a certain appeal to me, although it sounds like for the most part Chuck is able to get the numbers right. It seems like having a zipper could also allow the latex to be replaced later on, if necessary. I noticed that they are now selling a natural latex version of the mattress, too.

It seems like my choice is between a flippable all latex mattress that doesnā€™t quite meet my needs for 1700, or a latex over foam mattress that isnā€™t flippable but may be more suitable for my body for around $900, not including a foundation. hmmmā€¦:huh:

Adam

4

If finding a foundation is a concern for the Ultimate Dreams mattress, I recently bought the ā€œTall Tatamiā€ wood bed frame from www.tatamiroom.com.

http://tatamiroom.com/cgi-local/catalog.pl?category=PLATFORM_BEDS

Free shipping and it came really quickly, was fairly easy to put together, is solid wood, and really quite nice for the price point. They have a few other models as well. Queen size is pretty inexpensive and youā€™d have a nice solid piece of furniture and you can set any mattress right on top of the slats.

5

Hi adam-in-pgh,

Showing their specialty mattresses on a box spring instead of a solid foundation is the ā€œnormā€ for them (and somewhat unusual) and is why I suggested that you try both mattresses ā€¦ but especially the thicker one ā€¦ on a firm foundation or an adjustable bed which has a solid platform. This may be enough to give it more solid support and may put it closer into the range that you need. While the convoluted layer is a little on the soft side, itā€™s also thin enough that adding a firmer foundation may do the trick. If nothing else it will give you a way to check the mattress with a solid base which would be a more valuable reference point because otherwise you donā€™t know how much of the performance and feel is from the base.

I do know that the foam is US made (meaning that it is safe) and you could ask them if you needed more details but this is often something that manufacturers donā€™t disclose for competitive reasons.

All"organic" is very expensive ā€¦ much more so than natural materials including latex. There are only two manufacturers who produce organic raw latex and only one of them has an organic latex core (the other one only has the raw materials certified). Buying organic adds a substantial cost over anything that you have been looking at. The OMF is blended talalay (not natural) which is the same as the Ultimate Dreams and they also use a polyfoam quilting layer the same as the Ultimate Dreams. The difference is that the Ultimate dreams has a high quality polyfoam support core while the Latex Supreme at OMF has latex for a support core. None of these materials are not either natural or organic but they are very high quality. Ultimate dreams does have a natural Dunlop version though (not talalay) as you mentioned which also has wool in the quilting in addition to the quilting foam (wool is very breathable and temperature regulating).

I would consider trying the OMF one more time on the firm foundation this time just to confirm whether it doesnā€™t ā€œquiteā€ meet your needs and I would probably make a phone call to Carlisle as well just to see what they have available. I know you have some ā€œtradeoffsā€ to consider in order to get to what is best for you but as I mentioned before at least all your choices are good ones and if you can get past the uncertainty of ordering online ā€¦ one of them is exceptional.

Phoenix

6

Hi Phoenix,

I ended up pulling the trigger and ordering the Queen Size Ultimate Dreams mattress with the zipper top. So, Iā€™ll look forward to talking it over with Chuck and seeing what firmness level he thinks Iā€™m most likely to go with. The zipper top will hopefully be more of investment in peace of mind than anything else, but itā€™s worth it to me. Even with the $300 premium (some of which, Iā€™m sure, goes into the extra depth of foam he uses in the Mattress) itā€™s considerably less than my alternatives, which I really donā€™t believe would have satisfied me with or without the box spring.

I tried to get in touch with Carlisle Mattress, but the # for the store near me is out of service. Iā€™m not sure if they are entirely closed down or simply havenā€™t updated their site.

So, my hopes are high and now I get to think about other endeavors, such as building a frame for this thing. :lol: Any thoughts on that? Iā€™m kind of impressed with the ikea slat system, and wouldnā€™t be opposed to considering integrating it into something I put together - alternatively, I could use straight boards, much like the wooden foundation sold at Sleep-EZ. Is there a significant advantage/disadvantage to either?

Thanks again for all the info you provide on this site - Iā€™m grateful I found it before I made a choice.

Adam

7

Hi adam-in-pgh,

First of all ā€¦ congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

Donā€™t forget to make sure you get your free latex pillow (offered to members of this forum).

I tried all their numbers and they are all out of service so it appears that they are shut down. That would be sad because the numbers of local independents is already fairly small and in spite of the quality and value of the majority their products ā€¦ some of them are simply being ā€œoverwhelmedā€ by the massive advertising of lower quality and value mattress brands and mainstream outlets, by the lack of consumer awareness of how to recognize better quality in a mattress (so they will unknowingly buy mattresses with much lower quality materials that have good ā€œstoriesā€ attached to them), and in some cases by ā€œpolitical influencesā€ that favor the major manufacturers and can make the cost of doing business with smaller volumes and smaller profit margins too high.

Iā€™m not much of a carpenter so I donā€™t have much advice in how to build a foundation although I have seen some blueprints from others that built their own in my online travels (unfortunately I didnā€™t save the links). There are some good and inexpensive foundation choices in the foundation thread here but if you want to build your own either because it may save you some money or even ā€œjust becauseā€ ā€¦ Iā€™d love to hear about what you end up with and how you built it.

A typical minimum number of slats (1x3) that would be suitable for a latex mattress and give you gaps that are less than 3" would be 14 (in a mattress that is 80" in length). A stiffer polyfoam base could probably get away with less than a latex base.

I also like some of the Ikea foundations but they are made to be part of an Ikea bed/foundation option and need something to sit on (unless you want a really low bed with them sitting directly on the floor). I donā€™t see any reason though that they wouldnā€™t fit on a different bedframe where the measurements matched or on a DIY foundation that had the side rails and a center midbeam that would support it snugly without it shifting around and could keep it secure

The advantage of a flexible slat system is that it acts as an active part of your sleeping system (like an innerspring) which can change the performance and feel of the mattress (it will have more give under the heavier and more ā€œprotrudingā€ areas of your body). This could be an advantage or disadvantage depending on how the mattress works on a rigid foundation (which is the most common choice for an all foam mattress). It would be a more common choice for a thinner mattress that needed a wider range of flexibility or was on the firm side by itself. If the slats are also tension adjustable in certain areas (like the laxeby here) then they can be be used as ā€œfine tuningā€ by making the slats softer or firmer under certain areas of the body similar to zoning the support core of the mattress.

Phoenix

8

Hi Phoenix,

When I spoke with Chuck this morning he said that in his opinion, as long as it was a foundation of some sort and not a box spring, that I could probably go with either.

Iā€™m still a little on the fence about if I want to try to build a frame - I just moved so I have a lot of other projects to do, and doing carpentry/woodworking in my 1BR apartment is not the most convenient thing. I may just go with the 11 wire foundation and enjoy the simplicity/extra storage space that it affords. Alternately, Overstock seems to have some decent looking bed frames. Ever hear anything about the quality of those? I do have other things to makeā€¦ however, I think that it would be pretty easy to make a frame that could fit the Ikea slat system for someone who was motivated to do so.

Anyways, I spoke with Chuck and he suggested that I might want to go with a 6 - which he described as being a little on the softer side of medium. I had explained my earlier experiences with mattresses as well as my concerns about sinking or difficulty moving and not having adequate support. He also mentioned a 4 - which he described as cushion firm. I donā€™t know precisely what that means, but Iā€™ve been sleeping on a pretty firm Ikea futon mattress for the past year and waking up stiff most daysā€¦ so I think Iā€™m inclined to try the 6, with the awareness that I went for the zipper top, so the worst case is I exchange it.

-Adam

9

Hi adam-in-pgh,

Iā€™d think the same although if I had a choice with a mattress that was already chosen for my specs and preferences then firmer would be my choice (if you meant the choice between flexible slats and a firm foundation) rather than adding any extra flex to it. You could always use it on the floor (with a blanket or something for protection) for a short time to see how a firm foundation would work before deciding.

Iā€™d like to see someone do this and share their plans. I havenā€™t seen anyone do it even on the Ikea fans site and it seems to be a really good idea. It would lead to lots more sales of the slats I would think if Ikea themselves made a foundation that would accommodate them instead of having to buy one of their beds.

Iā€™m not as big a fan of Overstock as Amazon because there seems to be lots of products misdescribed there but I havenā€™t looked at (or heard good or bad) about any of their bed frames specifically.

Chuck seems to be very good at getting the recommendations right based on the information and feedback people give him and with their new exchange option the risk is also a little lower. I certainly wouldnā€™t argue with any of his recommendations and with your side sleeping I would think the little bit of extra softness would probably be a good idea.

Phoenix

10

Hi Adam,

I donā€™t know if Iā€™m going to help or not but we just got the Ultimate Dreams bed last Wednesday as a level 4 firmness after debating between that and a 6. We were coming from a Sealy Posturepedic Cushion Firm, which compared to this Ultimate Dreams bed is like sleeping on a board. I was really surprised at how soft the Ult. Dreams bed is and was very concerned about how sore I would wake up on it. I didnā€™t want to post any reviews just yet b/c it hasnā€™t been quite a week but I will say that I donā€™t wake up stiff at all anymore and we both sleep more deeply. My husband had back surgery back in March and just yesterday has finally said that heā€™s noticing improvement in his back. Its taken a week to adjust and I canā€™t say that it was ā€œWOWā€ at first but, it is growing on us and we both really like it now. Oh, and it does sleep hotter than a regular bed.

For the foundation, we went with this Amazon.com

It only took about 30 mins for my son and husband to put together and it is a very solid base, compared to the box springs we had.

Now Iā€™m wishing I had gotten the latex pillow to go with the mattress! :slight_smile:

11

Hi Searchingforsleep,

Thanks for the feedback ā€¦ and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

Did you tell them you were a forum member here (you automatically become a forum ā€œmemberā€ with your first post here)? If you did ā€¦ then you would be entitled to one of their shredded latex pillows for free.

Phoenix

12

I mentioned that I had found about him here thinking that would be enough but, I guess it wasnā€™t.

13

Hi Searchingforsleep,

It may have been an oversight or it may still be on the way.

If you let them know when you made your purchase ā€¦ and you did make your first post here well before your purchase which means that you were a member ā€¦ then I would call them (their number is at the bottom of the page here) and they should send you one :slight_smile:

Phoenix

14

Oh wonderful! Thank you! I just figured since I didnā€™t mention what my username is, that I didnā€™t qualify. Iā€™ll contact him and see what happens. I hope I get one! :slight_smile:

15

Is your mattress still sleeping hot? As I understand it, a 4 is pretty firm so you arenā€™t really falling ā€œintoā€ the mattress, iā€™d like to hear more about how youā€™re liking your new bed.

16

Yes, compared to the inner spring mattress we had, it does sleep a little hotter. Weā€™ve adjusted at this point, though. The top layer seems to have settled so, it feels like its more firm now than when we first got it but its still softer than our previous mattress, though and I think, as of last night, Iā€™ve finally found a pillow that works well for me. Unfortunately, with sick children last night, I didnā€™t sleep as well as I should have to really know. And yes, the sleeping on vs sleeping in the mattress is relevant here. This is more of an ā€œonā€ vs ā€œinā€ feel.

One thing that we really like is that we donā€™t feel each other moving or getting up like we did with our last bed.