Hi eagle007,
By most standards this would be considered a firm mattress both because the comfort layers are Dunlop and because the compressed wool would make it even firmer. This would be especially true for someone who was on the slimmer side. Dunlop is also less “exact” in the ILD ratings than Talalay and that along with the higher compression modulus (gets firmer faster) and the 25 ILD (not all that soft in Dunlop) would likely account for your experience.
You may be getting misinformation here. First … Tempurpedic doesn’t make an “all memory foam” mattress and I doubt that the foam underneath it was 23 ILD. He was probably confusing the density of the poly (2.3 lbs/cu ft) with ILD. If you look at the law tag you can confirm this (whether it was all memory foam). If you know the tempurpedic model then it would be easy to confirm the layering and also help to explain why you were feeling what you were feeling.
It is rare that Dunlop latex can be “differentiated” in increments of 3 ILD. This also has a different construction and layer thickness than the first one. I suspect that the comfort layer in this one may have been softer and/or the thinner mattress support core would mean that you are sinking “in” to the top layer more rather than sinking “down” into the mattress more which would be the case with the first one. Firmer or thinner lower layers can change the pressure relieving qualities of the layers above them. This is where your personal experience can be “explained” by theory (after the fact) but not necessarily “predicted” by theory because of the many variables involved in both mattress materials and in construction.
If you mean their “PostureSense” foam, memory foam isn’t “graded” by HD or HR … these are grades of polyfoam (not memory foam) that are used as a support layer under the memory foam layers. Memory foam doesn’t really have grades but its quality is primarily based on density and secondarily on the manufacturer of the memory foam (each manufacturer has their own formula with its own characteristics). Polyfoam is rated as HR based on meeting certain specs which are a density of 2.5 and higher, a compression modulus of 2.4 or higher, and resilience of 60% or higher. All memory foam is soft (although some are softer than others) and they also vary widely in some of their other characteristics such as recovery speed, breathability, temperature sensitivity, and others. ILD has little meaning with memory foam mainly because they are all soft and because they don’t respond to ILD measurements in the same way as polyfoam or latex.
This makes no sense to me and I suspect there is more to this story (or more accurately their belief). The subject of the durability of different types of latex is very complex as evidenced by this post from yesterday and I suspect that their belief is not based on an “accurate” assessment or on all the facts relating to their experience.
I’ve included a list of outlets that are “centered” around San Francisco rather than Sacramento which should give you more choices in terms of mattress testing. I would particularly suggest testing some Talalay latex and a phone call (or a visit if the distance justifies it) to Bay Bed who is one of our members and who uses Talalay extensively. Testing in different outlets that use different materials or types of construction may help a lot to clarify what works best for you.
If its OK with you … after you’ve read this reply I wanted to change the topic title to include San Francisco so that these outlets can be included in the research for others in the area since I don’t have a “San Francisco” thread yet.
Phoenix
Bay Bed & Mattress - FAQ Santa Cruz. Local factory direct manufacturer. Specializes in modular pocket spring and talalay latex constructions but will also build an all latex mattress. I think highly of them and they offer great quality, value, knowledge, and service. I invited them to become a member of this site because I believe they compete well with the best in the industry and I’ve included them in the San Francisco list because they would be well worth a visit for those who don’t mind the longer drive.
https://www.nestbedding.com/ San Francisco, Albany, Palo Alto, CA. (and others outside the area) They are a member of this site and are knowledgeable, experienced, and transparent and carry a range of mattresses including latex, memory foam, and latex and memory foam/pocket coil hybrids. They have also put a great deal of time and effort into carrying mattresses that are good quality and value. I have also talked with Joe the owner on many occasions and he is passionate about what he is doing and left a larger manufacturer that had a somewhat exaggerated focus on “green” mattresses to form his own company because he wanted to “do it right”.
Community Mattress Concord. Local factory direct manufacturer. Patrick here is a “one man show” and builds a wide variety of mattress of all types (memory foam, innerspring, and latex) and can custom build almost an type of mattress that you may want. He uses high quality materials and his mattresses have good value. Well worth a phone call and/or a visit.
https://www.foamorder.com/ San Rafael, San Pablo, CA. Local factory direct manufacturer. I have talked with Alan here and he is committed to providing high quality materials and mattresses. Tends to focus more on the benefits of Dunlop latex over Talalay and some of the Talalay information here is I believe is somewhat inaccurate. They also make memory foam mattresses. Also well worth including in your research as they have some good options with good value. Their Natural Sense mattresses are also available at stores in Concord, Arcata, and Albany, CA.
http://www.sleepworks.com/ Berkeley. Local factory direct manufacturer. They make a range of mattresses which include a variety of latex and latex / pocket coil hybrids and microcoil choices which are very interesting and also have good quality and value. They are also very knowledgeable about mattress materials and design and good at “fitting” their customers to a suitable mattress.
http://www.naturallyorganicsleep.com/ Burlingame. Local manufacturer that makes various component layered latex mattresses with various different types of zip covers. Good quality and value. They also carry PalmPring, Pure Latex Bliss, REM Sleep Solutions, Restonic, Natura, Magniflex, Easy Rest, and Savvy Rest mattresses
http://www.thenaturalmattressstore.com/brand.html San Francisco, San Rafael, Palo Alto, Walnut Creek, Los Gatos, CA. Local factory direct manufacturer. Makes a range of high quality latex/innerspring hybrids and all latex mattresses (including component latex mattresses) that can be customized both before and after a purchase. Worth a visit.
http://www.selectsleepmattress.com/home.html Union City, Danville. Local factory direct manufacturer. This is a “build your own” mattress where you can choose a Bonnell coil, pocket coil, or HD polyfoam for a support layer and either memory foam, latex, or high density polyfoam for the comfort layers along with your choice of ticking/quilting for a cover. Good quality materials and good value. The owner used to be a licensee for a major manufacturer before starting on his own and building directly for consumers and is knowledgeable and clearly “mattress people”.
http://famousfoam.com/index.html Berkeley, CA. I have talked with them and they are very knowledgeable about foam and make some good quality/value polyfoam and memory foam mattresses. They are also committed to educating their customers about the materials they use and helping them to make the best possible choices. They tend to use lower density memory foam in their memory foam mattresses however (@ 3 lb) and even though they told me that their experience with it was good … I would tend to prefer higher density memory foam which is more durable and will keep its memory foam properties longer.
http://keetsa.com/about/showroom/ San Francisco. Chinese manufacturer. Sourced from the Zinus group and has a somewhat exaggerated focus on “green” materials which I don’t believe is justified considering the materials that are used in most of the mattresses. Some better value in comparison to major brands but not in the same class as most local manufacturers IMO.
Estates Mattress Company Oakland. Local manufacturer who sells mainly wholesale but will also sell factory direct to consumers. Mainly “promotional” low cost innerspring and polyfoam mattresses for lower budgets.
http://mcroskey.com/ San Francisco, Palo Alto. Local factory direct manufacturer who makes premium mattresses using natural and synthetic fibers and innersprings, traditional hand building methods. Recently also introduced a mattress that uses latex in the comfort layers. While there is no doubt about their quality, these types of mattresses are not for everyone and based on the materials used I would also question their value compared to some other manufacturers. They do have a loyal “brand” following but their pricing may not provide the best value for those that are more focused on pressure relief, alignment, and overall comfort or who make comparisons with other choices that use the same or similar materials.
http://www.roomandboard.com/ San Francisco. Retail direct outlet for a range of mattresses made by Restwell which includes memory foam and latex. Better value than most national brands but not as good as many factory direct manufacturers. Foam density of some of their polyfoam layers may be questionable.
http://info.ikea-usa.com/ Emeryville, CA. See post #3 here and the posts it links to for more comments about the Ikea mattresses.
http://www.urbanmattress.com/ Berkeley. Retail direct outlet for their own house brand (Urban organics latex mattresses), along with a range of mattresses made by Sherwood, Suite Sleep, and VI Springs (ultra premium). Good people who have always been knowledgeable and open about their mattresses when I have talked with them.
Contact Us - Dealer & Customer Inquiries | Savvy Rest Charlottesville, VA. Smaller national manufacturer that focuses on component latex mattresses with a choice of two, three, or four 3" layers and a wool quilted cotton cover and a latex innerspring hybrid and wool mattress as well. Good quality materials and a great place to test layered latex mattresses but they are also in a more premium price range so I would make some careful value comparisons with other similar mattresses.
http://www.ergosleepsystems.net/ Berkeley, Oakland. Retail outlet. Carries a wide range of high quality mattresses by OrganicPedic (OMI), GreenSleep, Magniflex, Ergovea, Sharper Image, Pure Latex Bliss, Naturepedic, and Natura. Would make a great testing ground for various types of latex and/or latex hybrids and different combinations but make good “apples to apples” comparisons when you shop here as there may be better “value”.
ahappyplanet.com - ahappyplanet Resources and Information. San Francisco. Carry a range of mattresses made by Oasis, Green Sleep and Vivetique. Also on the costly side.
Natural Organic Mattresses & bedding from Earthsake - ecofriendly 100% natural latex mattress, organic bed linens, wool mattress pad, organic cotton towels & more - Earthsake Natural & Organic Products Berkeley. Carries a range of latex, latex hybrids, and innerspring and fiber mattresses made by various manufacturers. Like many organic outlets … their latex is a little more expensive than other options.
http://www.maplegrace.com/ Larkspur. Retail outlet that carries a wide range of Vivetique mattresses which includes latex, natural fibers, innersprings, and latex hybrids.
www.thefutonshop.com/ San Francisco, San Mateo, Concord, Los Altos, Santa Rosa, CA. Carries a huge range of futons of all kinds including innersprings, latex, memory foam, polyfoam, and organic wool and cotton.
http://foam-futon.com/ Santa Rosa, CA. They carry a wide range of futons and also mattresses that use high quality polyfoam, memory foam, and latex. They normally have latex on the floor to test but not always so call first. Knowledgeable about materials and good people to deal with.
http://sleepcitybeds.com/locations Various outlets in the area from Santa Rosa to Napa to San Rafael. Retailer. Carries Pure Latex Bliss Natural along with Sharper Image, Cannon, and some mainstream brands (which I would ignore). They are knowledgeable about mattresses and materials and as open and transparent about their mattresses as their manufacturers allow them to be. Good people
http://shopmatthewsmattress.com/ Napa, CA. Carries Stressopedic which is a regional manufacturer that is committed to being open and transparent about their mattresses (see here)
http://www.praetzelsfinefurniture.com/ Petaluma, CA. Carry OMI (orgainc latex mattresses) and Tempflow (memory foam mattresses).
http://www.justliving.net/ Sebastopol. Carry Savvy Rest which are a “choose your own layer” mattress with many combinations of 3" latex in different layer combinations. Check to make sure they carry both Talalay and Dunlop options in their choices if you are looking to test the differences between them in various layer combinations. Good quality but make sure you make some careful value comparisons.
www.naturalmattressworld.com/ Dublin, CA. Carries OMI, Naturepedic, and Savvy Rest which are high quality latex mattresses but also carry some premium prices so make some careful value comparisons.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/loris-half-price-mattress-sebastopol-2 Sebastopol. I have talked with Lori the owner here and the store is open by appointment only (although she spends a good deal of time there). She carries mattresses made by Cannon Sleep Products which include some Spring Air latex and latex hybrid mattresses which may be worth including in your research for those in the area.
A number of these retailers in the area specialize in organic mattresses and while these include some high quality mattresses that usually focus on Dunlop latex or natural fibers and innersprings … they are not always the best value when compared to other mattresses that use similar materials with less of an “organic” focus so I would tend to make some careful value comparisons but for those who value organic materials or who have a more organic focus more than most … they are certainly worth including in your research.