Pillows?

[SleeplessinDallas]

Hi Phoenix,

Now that I have racked your brain about mattresses, I was hoping you get your input on pillows!

I currently rotate b/t one of the Tempurpedic kidney shaped pillows (good on my side) and a less expensive thinner memory foam pillow from BBB (better for my stomach). I like the Tempur pillow, but it’s too high when I’m on my stomach and the BBB one bottoms out quite easily, but it’s lower, which is better for tummy sleeping.

I was thinking of getting something that might be able to work for both side and stomach sleeping, although not sure if that’s realistic.

A few months back, I liked the Tempur Cloud pillow when I was trying beds in the store.

I also found the Malouf pillows- they have a shredded latex and a latex/memory foam combo- one on each side.

I don’t love the feel of regularly latex pillows, esp if they are very thick. I find them to be a bit too bouncy. I tend to get motion sickness and when I try a normal thick latex pillow, it almost makes me feel like I am getting motion sickness or something silly like that. I wondered if maybe shredded latex would feel less bouncy?

Just thought I’d see if you had any recommendations!

Thanks Phoenix, as always!

[SleeplessinDallas]

I was just at Bed, Bath, and Beyond looking at a handful of things and noticed that they now carry several
of the Tempurpedic pillows. They have the Cloud pillow as well. The guy told me “everything in the store is returnable”. Hum. Wonding if it might be worth a shot?

[phoenix]

Hi Sleepless,

OK … now you’ve gone and done it. Opened up the “pillow” can of worms … er … feathers or shredded latex

So we may as well make this the official “pillow” thread so I’ll link to a few other places where I’ve made some comments before.

I think that pillows are an even more personal part of our sleeping system than a mattress and subjective perceptions are even more important … although of course there are still necessities in what we need for the best spinal alignment as well. I have to say that while there are many pillows that I have liked for periods of time and sometimes even long periods of time … I don’t think that I’ve ever found the “perfect pillow” because my definition of “perfect” seems to change from time to time.

Some of my more generic thoughts on pillows are in post #13 here

There is also some information about many of the materials that are used in pillows in post #5 here.

From another post …

It’s interesting to test the differences in pillows while laying on your back and moving your head from side to side as that’s where you can really tell the difference in materials. Memory foam holds your head more rigid. Feathers allow easier movement and they don’t really help or hinder it. Latex clearly “helps” your side to side head movement. Whether this is good or not would depend on preference but it’s “different” for people who are used to either having their head held in place or using a pillow that is more movement neutral.

There are a couple of pillows that I’ve been trying lately. The first one is a zoned talalay latex pillow from Malouf

Because I’m primarily a side sleeper … I got the thicker one but also the plush version because I like sinking into my pillow and other positions need less thickness. While I don’t find it “bouncy” so much … like all latex it kind of “assists” or “encourages” free movement (and I can understand how some people wouldn’t like this). Maybe my head is just heavier and doesn’t bounce as much It’s also a little warmer for me than feathers. I like it and it works well for me but for my DH (who is also mostly a side sleeper but sometimes moves towards her stomach) whose shoulders aren’t as wide as mine and so her head doesn’t need to be held up as high, the slightly thinner one would probably have been better. She likes the feel but not the height even though it’s very soft. I haven’t tried the shredded latex version but I’m guessing it would be a little less “bouncy” but I’ve heard some people say they don’t like the feeling of the “pieces”.

The other one is the Biogreen Trillow here.

This one actually impresses me and it’s probably the nicest memory foam pillow I’ve tried. I wanted to test the biogreen memory foam which is an MDI (rather than TDI) formula and I specifically asked to have a brand new one so that I could see how it smelled before it had a chance to air out. There is absolutely no smell and even my DH who has an incredible sense of smell didn’t smell anything. Nothing chemical in any way. It is also a slightly faster reacting memory foam so that I don’t have a trapped feeling and movement is easier than other memory foams. It is also very breathable, cooler and “airy” feeling more so than other memory foam pillows I have used. I use it in the thickest configuration and DH uses it with the outer layer removed and with the 4" contour towards her shoulders and it’s perfect for her side sleeping and occasional forays onto her stomach. I haven’t slept on it as much as I’d like to as it’s been “taken” for most of the time we’ve had it

I also came across the totillow pillow in the last couple of days and it’s a down or down alternative pillow and also looks really interesting. there are some really good real time videos on the site about how it works with multiple sleeping positions like stomach side sleeping.

Another one that I will definitely try at some point is the technogel pillow. Besides the fact that the gel really interests me … I also really like cool sleeping pillows and the gel is probably one of the cooler options because of its heat conductive qualities. You can see some feedback about it from one of the forum members in post #3 here.

Another part from another post …

[quote]There are some good “pillow sites” on the web with very good information about pillows in general. They are a very important part of a sleeping system and spinal alignment. In general terms … side sleepers need firmer/thicker pillows to prevent the head from sinking too much which can cause misalignment and soreness in the neck and upper body area. Back sleepers need a slightly softer/thinner pillow that will support the cervical/neck area. Stomach sleepers do best with a very thin/soft pillow or no pillow at all. The type of mattress you sleep on and how deeply you sink into the comfort layers will also play a role in the type of pillow that is best. The deeper you sink into a mattress … the “thinner” a pillow you will typically need.

Pillow materials are a matter of personal preference and are typically made of similar materials to mattress comfort layers (latex, polyfoam, various natural and synthetic fibers, gels, feathers etc). For the same reasons that I like latex in the mattress comfort layers (a combination of softness, pressure relief, and support) … I believe that it also makes a particularly high quality pillow … assuming the pillow fits your sleeping position.

Some good information about pillows is here www.pillowsmtom.com.au/default.asp (makes customized pillows), here www.rejuvenite.com/ (latex pillows made by Latex International), here www.consumersearch.com/pillows and here www.sleeplikethedead.com/pillow-sleeping-positions.html[/quote]

So that’s it for “pillow talk” for the moment … and if anyone has any thoughts to add or pillow preferences or suggestions feel free to add them here. Thanks for starting up this thread.

Phoenix

PS: As time goes on I’ll add links to some good pillow information in this post as they appear in other threads on the forum.

DIY customized latex pillow

Quick update a double stack pillow dilemma

Talatech pillow

Help in selecting the best pillows

Links to some good pillow information and comparisons

Some thoughts about buckwheat pillows in post 11 and 13

Some good information about down pillows post #5 onwards

Dreamfoam shredded latex, shredded memory foam, and shredded latex/memory foam combination reviews

Some DIY pillow material and stuffing sources

Some general discussions about pillows including a kapok/latex combination

Some good information about LaNoodles pillows

[ZhivagosGirl]

Hi,

So - I bet you thought you were getting rid of me…

Now on to new pillows. I love latex (obviously). I have a pillow that’s been relegated (retired) to the guest room that I swear is 50 yrs old that was my grandparents that’s latex that I’ve LOVED my entire life. I’m realizing you are probably completely mortified and grossed out I have a 50 yr old pillow… It’s totally entact, I get new covers for it regularly… Really it’s more like a stuffed animal I can’t bring myself to get rid of. ANYHOO…

I’ve never known where to get them and when I got married and it came to getting 2 pillows and a match set etc I didn’t search for latex then. Well - now that I’ve sold hubby on the latex mattress, he’s fine with latex pillows. Again - before you know it I don’t want to be buying $200 pillows. As it stands we still went $500 over our maximum budget on the mattress - granted we did end up getting the foundation as well… But there will still be a mattress protector and I’m sure protectors for the pillows too…

This one seems to be getting respectible reviews on Sleep like the dead.com http://www.sears.com/dream-solutions-300-thread-count-latex-foam-pillow/p-096B4043000P?selectedFilters=Pillow SIze|King^Density|Firm&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

Then I’ve been seeing people talk about this one on here… https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Dreams-Shredded-Talalay-Pillow/dp/B007Y72SIY/ref=sr_1_2?s=bedbath&ie=UTF8&qid=1341177480&sr=1-2&keywords=king+latex+pillow

And then I saw this one Amazon.com

The first one is the type I’m most familiar with but I’m not opposed to saving $15 or so a pillow if possible. I love firm - but I don’t want bouncy. Which is one thing I will say about the pillow that was my grandparents. My biggest concern with the 2nd one is it seems like it would lose its integrity with all the “innards” being loose. The third one seems similar but seems to be “molded” together for lack of a better term.

I saw your other threads on pillows but I didn’t see these ones specifically mentioned. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Lara

[phoenix]

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

So - I bet you thought you were getting rid of me…

Now on to new pillows. I love latex (obviously). I have a pillow that’s been relegated (retired) to the guest room that I swear is 50 yrs old that was my grandparents that’s latex that I’ve LOVED my entire life. I’m realizing you are probably completely mortified and grossed out I have a 50 yr old pillow… It’s totally entact, I get new covers for it regularly… Really it’s more like a stuffed animal I can’t bring myself to get rid of. ANYHOO…

I’m quite happy that you’re “sticking around” for a while and hopefully there will be others who will also benefit from your questions, experiences and feedback

I’ve heard of 50 year old latex mattresses and I know that latex is incredibly durable but I have to admit that you have the oldest pillow I know about. Latex does have the advantage of being resistant to dust mites and other “nasties” though so it doesn’t gross me out as much as amaze me.

I added this to the “pillow” thread so that others can find some of the pillow discussions more easily. I hope that’s OK.

Like mattresses … pillows have a “what you need” part and a “what you prefer” part but the preference part plays a much more important role because we sleep so close to the pillow and our skin face and head is much more sensitive to the many differences in the feel and response of different pillows. It’s a lot more “personal” than even a mattress.

In general though … side sleepers need a loftier firmer pillow to keep their head and neck raised up and aligned, back sleepers need a little thinner pillow with some support under the neck, and stomach sleepers need the thinnest flattest pillow of all to keep their head as low as possible. Many people are combination sleepers and pillows that can be “scrunched” (feathers, down, shredded latex or shredded memory foam and many other materials) can help with this because they can be puffed up when needed on the side and flattened or molded when needed on the back or stomach.

There’s some good links earlier in the thread with some good good information as well about the different types of materials and pillows that may suit different people.

I personally sleep on a Malouf latex and like it a lot but it’s the high loft zoned plush rather then the shredded one. It has some bounce or what I call “motion assistance” but it’s not as much as the firmer one would be (I don’t like firmer latex pillows as much because I like my softness). I’m mostly a side sleeper and tall (6’5" and 195 lbs) with some time spent on my back. The shredded latex would be softer and would shift around your head more rather than just compress and the looser the fill the more it would “flow” around the head as well as compress. They should both be very durable because the latex won’t break down as quickly as other materials. There are also several people here who have the Ultimate Dreams shredded latex pillow (which is a bonus with the mattress for the members here) and perhaps some of them will see this and give you their feedback.

I’m not familiar with the Dream solutions although there have been lots of comments that it’s on the firm side (although there are many side sleepers who love it as well).

I would probably suggest that you wait till your new mattress arrives because the best choice of pillow will be affected by how much you sink into your new mattress compared to the old one. if you sink in deeper there is less “space” to be filled between your head and the mattress which may mean a thinner pillow.

Phoenix

[ZhivagosGirl]

No worries about moving the thread. I’m all about centralizing information.

I think I’m subconsciously beginning to prepare myself for this new mattress being more firm than I’m going to want. It was quite firm when we tested it, but in my mind I was balancing that against the more “high end” weight of my husband and me, the fact that it is flippable and only a couple hundred dollars more than the other mattress we were seriously considering. All those things were the right longevity/R.O.I. combination. It wasn’t by any means uncomfortable - but too firm is much easier to address if need be. All that to say - I’m anticipating “sturdy” pillows at least initially until the bed starts to give a bit more.

And as for “sinking in” - I can’t imagine dealing with a sink hole any deeper than the one I have to pull myself out of every morning. :pinch:

[nimailni]

I am a stomach sleeper, and I prefer feather/down pillows.

I did not like the latex ones at all, they were all too thick and unresponsive. Shredded latex pillows are much better, but still IMO inferior in comfort to down pillows.

I can make my feather/down pillow almost disappear if I want, and it is very soft.
I bought one at Ikea for $12 and it is a combination of feathers and down. What I don’t like about it is that the pillow is loud (!). Its cover is made of material that makes sound, I guess to prevent feathers to stick out.

Now I understand why down pillows are better than feather+down, so I will try to find one.

Feather only pillows ($10-$15)
85% Feather+ 15% down ($12)
Inner core:feather, outer core down ($25-$60)
Down only pillows ($40-$160)

What is surprising that there are more affordable pillows at Ross/Marshalls stores than in the entire Internet.

I agree that preferable pillow type is a very personal choice, so no single pillow type could be recommended to everyone.
Stomach sleepers should definitely try natural down pillows.

[phoenix]

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I you ever have a chance, I’d love to have a picture of your 50 year old pillow … just to point to it from time to time

I’m sure you probably are thinking the same thing but I think the Dream solutions would be the firmest of the bunch (will allow for less sinking in to the pillow).

Phoenix

[ZhivagosGirl]

Was over by our Sears today and they actually have the Dream Solutions in stock so I was able to try it out. To just squeeze it and hold it and put my head on it I did not like it at all. However - Sears does have a mattress dept (full of the 3 S’s) about 5 feet from where I was standing - so I just took the pillow over to the closest bed and tried it out. I figured the latex we have coming couldn’t be any harder than the inner spring ones they were selling. Once I put it down on the bed and laid on it it lost the majority of the rubbery bounce and squishiness I didn’t like of how it felt just hold it standing up. It had a nice amount of give without “reverberation” (LOL - for lack of a better term) but also felt supportive. I didn’t pull the trigger and buy them because a) I was hoping to see if anyone had any feedback on that malouf “bumply” one and b) They had 3 there and I’d be willing to bet they’ve been there a while. Not that they aren’t in plastic - but they’re sorta just haphazardly stacked on the floor. I’d be inclined to actually buy them online if I want to pull the trigger in the hopes that they’ve been stored in a “nice, clean” warehouse.

For the love of pete as a side note - I literally had to force myself to leave after I heard the sales lady telling a customer about how hot latex was. :ohmy: :pinch: Honestly I don’t even know that they had anything latex there but I was “this close” to slipping the couple a note with the web info for Jordan Brothers.

Anyhoo - to end on a good note, Jordan Brothers called today and they can deliver our set a day early! Huzzah! :cheer:

[ZhivagosGirl]

PS - does a latex pillow need the same type of protector as a latex mattress?

[phoenix]

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

Thanks for the “pillow report”. Hopefully it will help many others that are looking at the same pillow

I know the feeling of hearing misinformation being given to a customer in a store. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard similar things and have had to bite my tongue! It’s amazing to me how much misinformation is being passed off as accurate by misinformed and poorly trained salespeople. I could also tell you about many times when I was the one being told the misinformation and decided to “correct” what I was being told in my various rounds or phone calls to different outlets. The response has has ranged from gratitude and “thanks” from those who want to know more to outright hostility that someone would “dare” to question what they were saying.

I just make my notes in my database so I don’t forget who they are

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hello all,

Because this is the"main pillow thread" and there are some other threads that have some good pillow information or feedback … I thought I’d add a post with links to some of the other threads with the thread titles that talk about pillows. they are …

Review of the seven comforts latex pillow

Quick update a double stack pillow dilemma

Talatech pillow

Help in selecting the best pillows

Some thoughts about buckwheat pillows in post 11 and 13

Some good information about down pillows post #5 to post #12

This way we can keep adding to the main “pillow thread” collection

Phoenix

[ZhivagosGirl]

Ended up getting 2 of the Dream Solutions Latex pillows (abt $44.99) - and turning around the next day taking them back. Hubby hated his, I wasn’t crazy about it either. Just not firm enough. Ended up going with gusseted extra firm polyfill - at least for now. LOL - on sale $16 (king) that I ended up getting for $6 each with add’l discounts.

Tried a body pillow - that also got returned. It was a Laura Ashley ($19.99) from Bed Bath and Beyond - it was SO firm and bulky it was literally like having a 5 yr old in the bed with us. Incidentally - BB and B also had latex pillows in stock for $49.99 (for a king). Ended up with a “cheapy” from Target that’s been fine.

This whole process has been exhausting.

[phoenix]

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

As you know … there are some “needs” with pillows (thicker for side sleeping, medium or shaped for back sleeping, thin for stomach sleeping, and scrunchy or variable for combination sleeping to help with upper body alignment) but beyond these and a few others … they are a very personal item with a huge variety of different feels and “interaction” with different people. Even pillows that are “rated” highly on reviews means little if someone doesn’t like the “feel” of certain materials.

My personal thoughts are that pillows are too personal an item for anyone to recommend one for someone else although it can certainly be helpful to read some feedback about how different pillows feel (as well as this type of subjective information can be described) or to know the different qualities of different types (slow/fast recovery, motion assisting/restricting, scrunchiness, sleeping temperature etc).

I think that pillows are one of the most important parts of a sleeping system because our head and face can be so sensitive to different types but they are also one of the most difficult components for many people to get “right” … and many people will change pillows much more than they change mattresses always looking for the “perfect pillow” for them.

It seems though that your “cheapy” is working well which is good news!

I have to say that I am also quite comfortable with my zoned, soft and high profile latex pillow although I know that latex in a pillow isn’t for everyone. I still haven’t been able to convince my DH to switch with me though for her biogreen trillow memory foam pillow which has become “hers” and nobody can take it away from her … even for a few nights

Phoenix

[ZhivagosGirl]

I completely agree on the “such a personal thing” comment. I swear my husband was like a 2 yr old with his blankie about 1 of them. He would NOT get rid of it and I did not want to sully the new pristine beautiful bed and other pillows I bought. I took the the cover off, about disolved it in bleach got a new deluxe cover - LOL in the hopes of trapping anything IN. I may have to go to a hypnotist to remember where I got it from because at some point it’s GOT to GO!

Baby steps right?

[Rskman]

Has anyone tried those pillows they advertise on T.V? Best pillows? I have also seen them at some county fairs. My wife loves pillows (we have way too many) and she was looking at those, but it is hard for me to buy their claims.

[Rskman]

Correction: Its My pillow. they also sell them at a lot of state fairs. Their website is: http://www.mypillow.com/about-mypillow.html

anybody buy one of these or have any comments?

[Coventry]

I don’t have any experience with the pillows that you are asking about. I did look at the website and found some issues that would bother me. I do have some neck issues so pillows are very important to me.

1. I couldn’t find anywhere the filling material that is in the pillow
2. Most of the information on the main ‘about’ page is just marketing ‘stories’
3. You can see a lot of reviews on Amazon do not agree with the claims about this pillow:
   Amazon.com

It seems that the claims made about this pillow are… exaggerated at best. The pillow may work for some, but according to the reviews for it on Amazon about half give it only a 1 star rating. If you are just looking for ratings on this pillow, the Amazon review page would help you.

I hope that you find something that works for you and if you do purchase this pillow, please review it here.

[Coventry]

Oh, I wanted to add that from the small sampling of Amazon reviews I read, it seems this pillow is just a shredded foam pillow. One reviewer “AKoster” states: “The pillow filling is comprised of small irregular bits of foam–the surface of the pillow is not smooth-looking, but I don’t find it to be an issue at all”…“The bits do allow for flattening or fluffing the pillow to your liking, and it holds that shape pretty well.”

You can get quality “Made in USA” shredded foam pillows off Amazon for much less then the offering from “My Pillow”.

Here’s some links to some shredded latex pillows on Amazon, but you can find many other types of shredded foam pillows there as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Dreams-Shredded-Talalay-Pillow/dp/B007Y72RZ8/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1344182984&sr=1-4&keywords=shredded+latex+pillow

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003DKL1MK/ref=oh_o05_s01_i00_details

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Shredded-pillow-pillows-natural/dp/B001AZVQ20/ref=sr_1_9?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1344182984&sr=1-9&keywords=shredded+latex+pillow

https://www.amazon.com/Malouf-Natural-Shredded-Talalay-Pillow/dp/B005CK100C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1344183464&sr=8-3&keywords=latex+pillow

If you are struggling with neck issues like me, you might want to look into pillows that provide cervical spine support (if you sleep on your side or back). My doctor and physical therapist both recommended a contour pillow, but I had a hard time trying to find one that was the right height with the perfect amount of firmness/softness.

[phoenix]

Hi Rskman,

As Coventry mentioned … these pillows are basically just shredded polyurethane foam. I read the patent application (and the video describes it more generally as well) and they use 3 different average sizes of small, medium, and large foam chunks of certain average sizes and in a certain proportion mixed together and the idea is that each size of shredded foam fills in the gaps produced by the larger sizes. The patent application describes the average sizes of chunks used, their proportion, and even the type of polyfoam used (1.8 - 1.9 lb density and 27 - 35 ILD). The idea is that it can be fluffed during sleep as the sleep position changes and then conforms to the body shape because the larger chunks will stay put and hold the shape while the smaller chunks fill in the gaps. The cover also uses what they call “hypoallergenic paint” which is some type of latex paint which is used to mask the feel of any sharp edges of the foam chunks. They use open celled foam which is reticulated foam which has very open cells so it can be washed and dried (like polyfoam sponges).

As Coventry mentioned … the claims are exaggerated and based on how foam chunks of different types and sizes settle and are not particularly unique to this pillow. They can be washed because reticulated foam (like sponges) will dry faster than other types of foam (like outdoor foam or dri-fast foam). At the prices they are charging … you are basically buying a story rather than some amazing material or “magic ingredient” and I think the reviews that Coventry mentioned suggest the same.

@Coventry … did you ever happen to find the knitted wool covers you were looking for?

Phoenix