Hi, does anyone know if pocket coil height generally affects the feel (softness, firmness etc) of the mattress? Ie would a 6" pocket coil feel firmer and less “comfortable” than an 8" coil (all things being equal other than the height)?
Hey stmslpr,
Welcome back to the forum 
! Thanks for your question.
Good question, stmslpr. The differences in the height of the coil between a 6" or 8" coil would not be as apparent for “feel” as the gauge or “thickness” of the coil. Each coil is loaded into a muslin fabric “pocket”, so there is already bit of compression that you may not necessarily “feel”. As the gauge/ thickness of the coil increases, however, the feel of the pocket coil support base becomes softer. For example, a 13 gauge coil would be a much firmer “feel” support than a 15 gauge coil. Coil gauge is also an indicator of durability, as a lower number/ thicker gauge coil would last longer than a higher number/ thinner gauge coil. But coils likely would not wear out before the mattress would need replacing anyway.
Just curious; are you researching a particular mattress support construction or having comfort/ support issues with a current mattress?
Thanks,
Sensei
Thank you Sensei, so the mattress I am currently on (the one I bought in the summer 2019) is from Berkley Ergonomics (Malmo configuration). The queen mattress has ~1500 coils at about 15 gauge. It came with 2" of soft talalay but I bought an extra 2" of vicoelastic memory foam. I tried all sorts of layering/arrangments (I currently have it from bottom to top… Suspension box spring, talalay latex, springs, and vicoelastic memory foam on top) but somehow can’t find a good consistent comfortable feel. The back issues aren’t as bad but it’s still not great. Moreso though, I think it somehow just feels… uncomfortably firm? Like even if I layer the memory foam on top of the talalay on top of the springs, it feels like I can eventually feel the support layer is too firm or something. Hard to explain.
I’ve been told over and over that as a stomach sleeper I need something firmer but, pre-pandemic, I had actually gone to 3 different mattress stores that had these computer sensor type deals that you can lie on and it will tell you what type of mattress I need. All 3 said (on my stomach) that I actually need something with medium-PLUSH support and medium to med-plush comfort layer softness. They told me not to trust the experts that tell you that stomach sleepers need firm mattress. I scoffed at the notion but now I’m starting to think maybe they’re on to something? (oh, i’m about 5’9" and 165-170lbs)
Pre-pandemic I had also gone and tried some stern and foster mattresses and definitely liked their med-plush mattress the best but I’m hesitant because I’m not sure what a softer mattress would do to my back long term. Also, they’re expensive and I read a lot of terrible reviews regarding the durability of sterns and foster. But they feel so darn good in the showroom!
I tried bear pro mattress late 2019 and it didn’t do it for me. I think it’s too firm to be comfortable. I’m really stuck now because it’s been long enough that I’m starting to think I may need something “softer” in the support layer and comfort layer (to actually get good consistent sleep) but I’m not sure it would be good for my back in the long run. I’m sure there’s a mattress out there that suits me the best as far as a overall compromise… just don’t know what it could be.
I’m eyeing the Lunazen mattress now. I think I need to try more mattresses that I potentially can return for full refund because I can’t afford to buy the wrong mattress again.
Hey stmslpr,
Thanks for the update .
A question or 2 more for you, stmslpr: I’m curious about your choice of Visco Elastic/ memory foam on top. Is memory foam a material you have enjoyed comfortably before on other mattresses? For those consumers following your research, memory foam, primarily used in the upper comfort layers, has some interesting characteristics, you can read more about those in Phoenix’s article “Mattress Comfort Layers- Memory Foam”. It is attractive to those who like sleeping “in” their mattress rather than “on” their mattress as it forms a deeper pressure relieving cradle than other foams or materials.
Q2: Where you describe your current mattress configuration as “having it from bottom to top… Suspension box spring, talalay latex, springs, and viscoelastic memory foam on top”…does that mean your 2" soft talalay layer is between the springs and slatted suspension box and if so why there? Can you feel the talalay comfort layer adding value in that placement? BTW- there’s no “right” or “wrong” answer here, just making sure I understand your current set up. I’ve added a cutaway shot of the Berkley Ergonomics Malmo (courtesy of The Mattress & Sleep Company).
Looking forward to hearing more details on your layering experiments and hoping you find comfort answers soon.
Thanks,
Sensei
Hi Sensei, I have never tried the vicoelastic foam but I believe the reason I went with it was because I found that the talalay… had a bit of a combative push back spring which I eventually found I did not enjoy much. Combined with the firmness of the springs it wasn’t too ideal (because the talalay felt way different and not as bad when I put it on an old mattress that had weaker less firm springs… another reason i think i might need a softer less firm supportive layer). So I queried about something that’s more “dead” feeling and I could sink into without it kind of “pushing back” against me. I do think the vicoelastic foam is a bit of an upgrade for me. However, I have a feeling that “pillow top” feel I’ve tried by lying on different beds in store (ie Stearns and foster) feels the most comfortable to me for whatever reason. It could be that there’s multiple layers of comfort layers before the springs come into play/support. But as a stomach sleeper there’s a fine balance between softness and comfort and sagging too much in the pelvis/low back. It was hard for me to realize these things when I could only lie around on the mattress for 15-30 mins (obviously I could not take a 6 hour sleep session in store).
Yup, I now have the talalay between the box suspension and the coils. Basically I tried a variety of combos that just didn’t do it for me. I obviously had just the talalay or the memory foam on the springs and on the box spring but it felt too firm and uncomfortable. I tried both of those with no box spring… oddly enough, at first it felt like it might have been “less” firm or combative but eventually still felt too firm. I tried the memory foam on top of the talalay on the coils on the suspension and without the suspension. It felt fairly soft and comfy at first but still eventually found I could feel the firmness of the coils too much. I tried the talalay over the memory foam over the coils too. So long story short I decided maybe I could make the coils “less firm” by putting the talalay underneath the coils. Hard to say if it worked but it MIGHT have made it a bit softer?.. though it’s still not great for me.
On further reflection I kind of feel maybe the firmness that is most uncomfortable for me when I’m on my stomach is due to the neck twist. It’s like it’s too firm for my head/neck moreso the torso? Though as I am trying to incorporate side sleeping, it is definitely too firm for my shoulders in that position.
Never did I think it would be this hard to find a good match for a mattress. Though age, likely has something to do with it as the joints in the spine/pelvis/neck etc degrade and get stiffer and more sore.
Hey stmslpr,
Thanks for your reply .
You’ve certainly done a good job experimenting with adjusting the different layers, stmslpr. Unless you’re planning to add other comfort layers of some kind to help soften the feel of the support layer, sounds as if you’ve tried everything else there is to try with your Malmo.
Question: what is your pillow situation like? How high is it and when was it last replaced? Keep up the good work and hang in there …
Thanks,
Sensei
Hi Sensei, I’ve also been trying a number of different pillows. From very thin ones (which I had for many years) to a bit more fluffy thicker ones.
I’d say in the past I had gotten use to the very thin ones (1 inch) but years ago it maybe got too thin and it just felt "firm and harder on my neck. I’ve tried no pillow but that’s almost worst as the mattress feels too firm for the head and neck.
I couldn’t find any pillow similar to my old ones so I grabbed some other ones that were supposed to be “stomach sleeper” pillows. Though they were noticeably thicker. The thinnest being maybe 2-3 inches. That one was expensive (like 160 bucks). I’m currently on a fluffy soft one thats not to thick (maybe 3 to 4 inches) and my head can sink into it . Not great but maybe the best as of now. The neck crank must be getting to me with age. My torso and legs love the stomach sleeping position but i’m not sure my head and neck do anymore.
Thanks! I’m still researching mattress to try. Hopefully the next one will work out.
Hey stmslpr,
[quote]I couldn’t find any pillow similar to my old ones so I grabbed some other ones that were supposed to be “stomach sleeper” pillows. Though they were noticeably thicker. The thinnest being maybe 2-3 inches. That one was expensive (like 160 bucks). I’m currently on a fluffy soft one thats not to thick (maybe 3 to 4 inches) and my head can sink into it . Not great but maybe the best as of now. The neck crank must be getting to me with age. My torso and legs love the stomach sleeping position but i’m not sure my head and neck do anymore.
[/quote]
Yeah, well-made pillows for special sleep positiong needs are not cheap, lol 
. I’m no pillow expert but have read that a thinner pillow is better suited for a stomach sleeper’s head positioning. Definitely skip the “no pillow” tact as that would create some spinal alignment/ back issues at some point.
Good luck with your continued mattress research, stmslpr. Looking forward to hearing how things eventually work out for you and good luck.
Thanks,
Sensei