Pocketed Coil & Latex Mattress

[phoenix]

Hi Phil P,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

Great site, tons of info on a difficult subject.

I’m glad you’ve found the site and I hope it is useful for you.

Wife wanted a spring based bed after a rather unsatisfactory experience with a “supposedly” natural 3 layer (3" soft, 4" middle firm & 3" medium) latex mattress that developed deep indentation after a 4 or 5 years from one or 2 layers apparently “failed” which is not normal for latex. That plus the thing weighed 250 lbs and require 2 people to change the sheets on our European type bowed slatted bed frame.

I’m sorry that you had a bad experience with your previous mattress. One thing that I would have you check is the state of your bowed slat platform bed, as over time these slats can lose their resilience and begin to sag and contribute to premature and excessive impressions in any type of mattress. Even if they are in good shape, they will change the feel of any style of mattress.

We are currently trying out DreamFoam’s 12" king “Ultimate Dreams Pocketed Coil Ultra Plush Pillow Top” mattress with a 2" 60/40 talalay latex blend top layer with an ILD rating of 19. The mattress seems well made although the covering is somewhat cheap (can feel springs on the side) and measures 75 x 79 in lieu of 76 x 80.

As there is no foam edge reinforcement system in this mattress, the springs would go out to the edge of the mattress, so you would feel the pocketed coils (a thicker cover quilted with more fiber can minimize this, but without a foam encasement you will still feel the springs to some extent). While industry standards are 76" x 80" for a king size, these are +/- 1", so the dimensions you have are within the normal range you’d find for a king mattress.

From what I gather, the latex sit right on top of the coils with no intermediary foam layer. Is that “normal” procedure?

I don’t have the complete specifications of this model, but yes, this is common practice, especially with fabric-encased pocketed spring units.

The mattress was extremely soft when we got it 3 weeks ago but has firmed up somewhat and seems to have “grown” to 13+ inches. It may be a combination of getting use to it and the ½" mattress pad it so it doesn’t feel so soft any longer. Don’t know about the extra inch in height.

A compressed mattress can “gain” in height a bit the first week or so after you have it (probably mostly in the quilt layer of this mattress), as the materials fully expand. Feeling “firmer” isn’t normal as a mattress breaks in, as there are not natural fibers that might tend to firm up over time. It could be a bit of the “settling” that a multiple layer compressed mattress will undergo after it is unwrapped, and the addition of the mattress pad and fitted sheet, which will also impact the comfort of any product.

The bed seems to conform to our bodies and we seem to get “support” in all the right places but still have our neck, shoulder stiffness and lower back aches in the morning. Are those normal feelings and just the sign of our age or an indication that this mattress is “too soft” and/or the type coil/foam layer configuration?

Unfortunately, I would have no manner to diagnose the reasons for any discomfort you might be feeling and whether that would be a result of your physical condition, your mattress, or a combination of both. Although I do know I tend to get more aches as time goes on! There is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here .

The concept of softness or firmness and “support” in some discussions is somewhat confusing.

Some of the discussions in the forum here can get quite technical, I know. There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”. To keep it simple, support is keeping you in good alignment and stopping you from bottoming out, and it most the responsibility of the deeper layers within your mattress. Firmness would generally be a term used to describe how hard something feels (plush, medium, firm), which is mostly determined by the uppermost layers within a mattress. It’s not necessary to differentiate between the two necessarily and know the definitions in order to pick out a mattress – I promise there will be no test at the end of this post! :lol:

We were thinking of retuning this mattress in favor of a similar configuration, the Eco Terra mattress. This is an 11" mattress with 2.5" of D75 “All Natural” Dunlop or Talalay latex in a medium range ILD 23 - 26). It also has the same Leggett & Pratt pocketed coil system with edge support that the DreamFoam has but seems to have a better quality all organic cotton covering.

While the construction of the Eco Terra is “similar” to the Ultimate Mattress, it’s also quite different. The spring unit is the Quantum Edge from Leggett and Platt and it has a different configuration and higher number of springs as compared to the Ultimate Dreams. Also, the 3" of latex is the only foam material on top of the spring unit. The certificate they link to for their latex lists it as Talalay in the FAQ on Amazon ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life Natural Cert 2016 - 2017.pdf?dl=0]certification.
, but they have import records from Arpico and the D75 rating they provide on their web site would be for Dunlop latex, so there is conflicting information there. Either way, it would be a durable material. The covering does seem to have a thicker FR backing. The mattress is available in a medium or a medium-firm comfort. There is no polyfoam quilt layer in this bed as in the Ultimate Dreams.

Are we just spending $400 more for the same issues or would the more “medium” feel be better for support & feel?

The spring unit would probably be a bit more expensive than the one used in the Ultimate Dreams, and the extra 1" of latex could also cost a bit more, but I can’t feel what you feel and I don’t know how you might like the feel of this product as compared to your current mattress.

Have you reviewed this particular mattress?

I don’t review mattresses. I instead focus on helping people learn “how” to choose a product, not “what” to choose.

We’ve looked at a lot the bed-in-a-box mattresses (there’s a ton out there) and YouTube reviews, all helpful. In fact the DreamFoam mattress we’re testing was rated the top one of 10 on one review

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

We both dislike sinking feeling of memory foams and want to stay away from all foam type beds for their synthetic feel, layering and potential off gassing. But maybe the gel foams are best for our aches and pains and tingling extremities.

“Gel foams” are usually just descriptors for memory foam layers with liquid gel or gel particles added to the foam.

A bid consideration is the weight of the mattress so we want to keep it relatively thin - 12" max.

A 12" thick mattress that is all-latex will be quite heavy, so the materials used in construction would be just as important as the overall thickness of the product. As this is a concern of yours, you’d want to inquire with any manufacturer s to the finished weight of their product before making any potential purchase decisions.

We’ve looked at the Lumina Pegasus, which you mentioned in one review but are concerned about all the relatively thin layers of different foams. Is that just hype or do they sever a greater purpose?

I had some comments 4 years ago about a few beds in their lineup, and what I was able to acquire in specifications were some very low density, lower quality polyfoams. I don’t know how that would compare to the current lineup, and you’d have to acquire that information from your local retailer. I’m not sure what you mean about “hype or a greater purpose”.

This bed is similar to the Voila mattress made in China. Also isn’t it a fact that gluing all the layers together tends to trap heat and makes the bed sleep hot?

You can do a forum search on the Voila and read my comments about those products. Gluing layers together generally won’t have much of an impact upon the mattress sleeping temperature. The glue is use very sparingly and comes out in what looks like thin strands.

Unfortunately, there aren’t a lot of bedding stores in the area to try out various off major brand mattresses other than the ones you suggest staying away from. Any comments and advice would be appreciated.

The best advice I could offer is for you to reset a bit on how you are going about looking for a mattress.

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress … outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

In its simplest form … choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight/BMI range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Clearwater Beach, FL 33767.

Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Tampa/ Clearwater/St Petersburg areas are listed in post #143 here .

Phoenix