Hello. Newbie again. Have a question on a mattress. I went through a long process about a year ago and settled on the Naturepedic EOS. I like the support and quality of the mattress. I also very much need an organic mattress because of health issues and chemical sensitivities. But I made two fatal errors.
First, I have a lot of chronic pain and the mattress has a non pillow top so even though it has the latex layer it doesn’t feel soft like a cloud when I lie in it. Over the course of the night my elbows and shoulders get sore. And I just like the feeling of sinking into a very plush mattress. But I’m a stomach sleeper so they say it’s better to not do pillow top. I don’t know.
Second. I was putting this in a relatively small room and wanted to preserve space and so I bought a twin XL. I thought it would be ok. But after a year of pushing the issue I have realized I simply cannot sleep in a twin. So I need to pay a ton more money for a queen.
I need to get this right. The guy said they now make an EOS that has a pillow top. It’s another 3 inch layer of latex on top of the one that is already in the bed. I’m gonna go look at it but I don’t know if it’s really gonna provide that super soft feeling on top. Unfortunately I think you can only get that with synthetic materials. And it’s expensive beyond what I can afford.
So I’m leaning towards the standard eos again but maybe getting a soft cotton topper for it. There’s a double thick bamboo one or something on the web that gets good reviews. I’m also thinking that this would allow me to change if need be.
So I’m wondering if you guys have any thoughts on naturepedic in general, the eos - in terms of quality and comfort, what the eos pillow top offers, and if there are any good add on pillow tops out there made of natural materials that will give the bed that cloud like feeling.
I’m pretty wedded to nature predict at this point as they did offer me the discount, but if there are others I should consider I’d be interested to hear about that.
This will be a very long reply because your post brought up a lot of questions and issues that you may not realize are as complex as they are.
In very general terms and based on “averages” … side sleepers tend to need a softer mattress because the body has more curves that need to be “filled in” to provide suitable support (such as the waist) and more “pointy parts” (such as the hips and shoulders) that need to sink in more to relieve pressure when you are on your side and generally need thicker and softer upper layers that can contour to the shape of the body more effectively and more deeply. Back sleepers have less curves that need to be filled in (such as the small of the back or lumbar spine) and less “pointy” pressure points and generally do best with a little bit firmer mattress that has either thinner or firmer comfort layers to reduce the risk of their pelvis sinking into the mattress too much which can put the spine out of alignment and cause lower back pain. Stomach sleepers have the flattest and least “curvy” sleeping profile of all and so they tend to need a firmer mattress yet with thinner and/or firmer comfort layers to reduce the risk of their pelvis sinking into the mattress too much and sleeping in a swayback position which can put considerable strain on the lower back and also lead to lower back pain. Stomach sleeping is the “riskiest” sleeping position in terms of back and neck strain (the head is turned sideways which can strain the neck). Putting a thin pillow under the pelvis/lower abdomen may also help prevent stomach sleepers from sleeping in a swayback position.
Having said all that … not everyone fits into the “averages” so the only way to know whether any mattress is a good “match” for you and how well you will sleep on it will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience when you sleep on it.
I would also keep in mind that a pillowtop is a method of construction and not a specific firmness rating or “feel”. It describes a mattress that includes a separate layer or “topper” in its own compartment which is attached to the main body of the mattress with a recessed edge so that the “pillowtop” layer can act and compress a little bit more independently and would feel a little softer than if the same layer was inside the main body of a mattress. While “most” pillowtops are in a softer range … they come in a very wide range of firmness options and some of them that use firmer materials in the pillow top attachment that would be in a firmer range as well. There are also some “non pillowtop” mattresses that would be softer than some pillowtop mattresses if they use softer materials in the upper layers of the mattress.
There is more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, “chemical free”, and “green” mattresses and mattress materials and components that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer “how safe is safe enough for me” so you can decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable having in your mattress. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.
The only reliable way to to assess the “safety” of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOC’s so that you have some assurance that any harmful substances or VOC’s are below the testing limits for the certification. If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable “safety” certification then for most people they would certainly be “safe enough” regardless of whether they are natural or synthetic.
There is also more information about the different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you or whether a “safety” certification is enough.
Unfortunately it’s not possible to make any specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I would also keep in mind that there are also no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.
Cotton toppers will tend to compress and become firmer over time and they will also likely be firmer than softer foam toppers when they are new as well. The softest latex topper would probably be a blended Talalay latex topper somewhere in the range of about 14 ILD which is very soft and for many if not most people would probably be too soft (although those that prefer the softest possible sleeping surface would probably like it).
There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here but all of the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable safety certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s.
I would keep in mind that your definition of “cloud like” may be very different from someone else so the only way to know whether any mattress feels “cloud like” to you will be based on your own testing or personal experience.
I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial (which is the first place to start your research) but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return the mattress if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for … especially if you can’t test the mattress before a purchase).
While I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the quality/durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to your weight range.
All of the Naturepedic EOS mattresses use high quality and durable materials and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them.
Naturepedic is one of a very few manufacturers that makes mattresses that are certified organic “as a mattress” as opposed to mattresses than just contain certified organic components. You can see some comments about their EOS mattresses in post #9 here and forum searches on Naturepedic EOS and on Naturepedic (you can just click the links) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.
If you are looking for local options then if you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.
If you are also considering online options then the tutorial includes a link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of them sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex (including organic Dunlop latex) that have a wide range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that that would be well worth considering.
I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Thank you for your thorough and thoughtful response. Apologies for not responding sooner but somehow I didn’t get an email notification of your reply. Anyway a few thoughts…
First, I’m in the Boston area. Zip code is 02038. I’m going to see the Naturepedic EOS again tomorrow. Going to see if the pillowtop version of the mattress is what I’m looking for. I agree completely with you that it’s a personal preference for feel. I toss around a lot and have a lot of pointy areas that hit the mattress so I do need a soft top, but I usually end up on my stomach so don’t want to get that lower back pain from having mattress be too soft.
If I go with Naturepedic I’ll need to decide if I want the standard EOS and a separate latex foam topper or the pillowtop version of the mattress which basically adds a second layer of latex to serve this purpose. For standalone latex foam toppers, is there anywhere I can go see a few of them or, if not, anywhere I can buy online and then return if I don’t like? Are there a few that are the best ones in terms of quality and non-toxicity?
I did go around a while back to a few of the organic mattress stores in the area and I really wasn’t impressed with the all-latex options they offered. They were more pricey even than naturepedic and sort of gave me the feeling of being stuck in them. They also felt a little hot, and I think the odor bothered me. With the twin mattress I have now, the odor was an issue for a few months but because it’s only one layer it seems to have gone away.
I also looked at pranasleep at a standard furniture store, but those were out of my price range and I’ve read they don’t hold up over time. And I’ve looked at the reverie bed online, but again price becomes an issue.
If there are any others you can recommend I look at, and possibly where to see them, that would be great. I do like the naturepedic (I’m actually a fan of the coils with the latex on top vs. all latex design), and I’ve had no issues with support or back pain, it’s just the softness of the top that was getting me. Unfortunately I can’t tolerate memory foam because of the odor, unless it’s very old and has finished off gassing.
Anyway thanks again, this site provides a great service as these items are so hard to evaluate and so expensive.
The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Boston area (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.
I don’t know which of the local options on the Boston list carry latex toppers (you would need to check their websites or call them)
There is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I’m aware of and a link to the online suppliers that have good exchange/return policies as well (just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).
There is also more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here but in general terms any type or blend of latex would be a very durable material.
All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold (see post #2 here) and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very “safe” material in terms of harmful substances and VOC’s.
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … I don’t make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
I also don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.
There are certainly many people who tend to prefer innerspring/latex hybrids and there is also more about innerspring support cores vs latex support cores in post #28 here and in post #2 here and some innerspring/latex hybrid sources that may be worth considering in post #2 here.