Questions about Dreamfoam, Ikea Mattresses and Frames, Addable

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
5

Hello Again:

I think I will do that - contact Dreamfoam about the misshape issue. We certainly cannot keep this mattress as-is

I am also thinking I may get a 10" or even a 12" model instead of an 8" to give me some more support. I did look back in a chat transcript I have and Dreamfoam did tell me that the 8" had an ILD of 12 then 10" (ILD 10) and 12" (ILD 8). Would there be a huge difference in feel from ILD 12 to ILD 8 even? I am not sure what layer they were giving me the ILD for though…can I assume it is the Energex they were referring to?

I also saw they told me that the top layer is 3.5 lbs/cu ft-that seems pretty high quality for the inexpensive price. If I went with the 12" as opposed to the 8" (like I currently have) I get an extra inch of that Energex which should increase durability…right?

My only concern about all of this in sticking with this particular Dreamfoam model (Arctic Dreams) is that it is so inexpensive it is considered a “throwaway” mattress. I wish I could know if it would last 3 months or 8 years before I buy!

The Dreamfoam chat rep. had no hesitance saying the mattress would be fine for me being under 250lbs. We don’t have a big budget for a mattress but we’ve got to have one. I have considered going with an entry level latex version Dreamfoam or even the Addable mattress to spend more and hope to have more durability, but don’t know if it would be “worth it”. We were on a very cheap ($300) spring Queen mattress (all we added was a cheap memory foam topper) for 9 years and it only recently became pretty unbearable.

I checked out your link to the foundation post and I cannot seem to find a durable, inexpensive (oxymoron?) slatted frame that is raised like a platform. I really like having space under the bed so I may just stick with the Smartbase I have from Zinus. One reason I bought it is because it has 3" of space between each metal “line” and Dreamfoam said in a chat that it would work fine as a base for their mattresses.

Thanks again for all your help!

6

Hi The Riddler,

I think that is the best course of action. I’ll be interested in learning what you decide to do.

The largest difference in plushness you’d feel would be due to the extra amount of Energex polyfoam as you took a step up to the 12" version. Yes, the ILD was a reference to that Energex foam. In general, I would simply consider it a plush material.

The Energex is a high quality polyfoam, one of the newer generation of what I term "high performance" polyfoams.

As for durability, you would be compressing the 8" mattress to a greater percentage of its thickness so “in theory” the 12" would probably be just a little more durable although the difference may not be all that meaningful in “real life”. There would be a difference in increased surface plushness that you should notice. While variable, there is some good general information about the “durability” of a mattress and what that might mean to each person in post #4 here.

I wouldn’t agree that this is a “throwaway” mattress at all. It certainly is a lower price point (and there can be tradeoffs to get at that lower price point), but the materials used are higher-quality than many products that are quite a bit more expensive in this category industry-wide, and it does represent a very good value, IMHO, for someone looking to keep their budget as low as possible.

Those are also both good options, but whether one would be “worth it” or not is personal and comes down to your own personal value equation.

Phoenix

7

All right-

I got onto a chat with Dreamfoam’s service rep. and let them know about the problem. They a picture initially but I explained that, unfortunately, the issue is not something that can be seen.

They said they could initiate a return/exchange and I chose to buy another mattress from them (I went with a 10" Arctic Dreams this time) and they said once I receive it they can initialize donating the other one and giving me a refund.
The rep. did mention they had not heard of this issue before, so hopefully it isn’t just me!

Like you mentioned, I cannot beat the value of these mattresses from Dreamfoam. We bought one for my young son awhile ago and he likes it. It is quite comfortable.

Hopefully this next go around things will be perfect! I tend to obsess and hyper-analyze over things that I am about to buy so as you can imagine researching mattress info has taken up a long while of my time (too much…).
I will let you know what happens when I receive the next one.
By the way, what is this pillow coupon I can get from being a member here?
Thanks again for your help!

8

Hi The Riddler,

Thank you for the update. I’m happy that Dreamfoam was willing to assist you with this and also allow you to upgrade to another product. :cheer: I’ll be interested in learning about your experience with your new Arctic Dreams 10" version.

Regarding the pillow promotion, site members here can request a free pillow promotion from Dreamfoam. You’d have to phone them and explain you are a site member here. I’m not sure if they will be able to make it retroactive because of your previous purchase, but it’s always worth a chance!

Phoenix

9

Well, my new mattress has shipped, and I am eagerly awaiting its arrival!

I have to say, I was laying on our current 8" mattress dip in it and it had me wondering-is it possible (I am sure many things are POSSIBLE) that for my wife and I a foam mattress may just not “work”?

It seems like we just got a “dud” this time, but perhaps for whatever reason we would break down a foam mattress too quickly (my high BMI?).h

This also got me wondering as a potential contingency plan of going with an old-school innerspring again if this Arctic Dreams doesn’t work. I hope it does, because their service is great and the mattress is well-built.

I have looked some on The Mattress Underground here but have not been able to find this:
Are there some body types who generally would be a better fit for innerspring as opposed to foam?
What weak links should I be looking for?
If I went innerspring I would be considering the following from Ikea:
Haugesund:

Haugesvar:

Are there any weak links in these mattresses?

Thanks for your feedback!

10

Hi The Riddler,

That’s good to hear!

It’s possible you may not have “an affinity” for a mattress using a polyfoam core, but as far as being functional and appropriate for you, there would objectively be no reason to cross such a mattress off of your list of items to consider. But personally it certainly could be that you don’t prefer such a feel.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier replies and post that I linked to, people with a higher BMI do generally need thicker and more durable materials, as they will place more of a mechanical stress on any product.

I’m glad you’re happy with the service Dreamfoam has been providing you. I would worry about potential contingency plans only if that might be necessary, and if it does I would tell you to start from the beginning following the guidelines in the mattress shopping tutorial here.

[quote]I have looked some on The Mattress Underground here but have not been able to find this:
Are there some body types who generally would be a better fit for innerspring as opposed to foam?[/quote]

You’re not finding such an article as one doesn’t exist :wink: . There is entirely too much personal variability involved to state that one type of component best “fits” a specific body type, even those of a higher BMI. I wouldn’t necessarily rule out any specific type of componentry, provided the quality was appropriate for the application.

Again I would refer you link I listed earlier for the mattress shopping tutorial, and you should go back and read the information I provided you about higher BMIs and appropriate materials.

Phoenix

11

Well it has been awhile since I posted-I hope you are doing well!
I will go ahead and share my return story with Dreamfoam if you are interested:
I returned the 8 inch mattress as you know and it was relatively hassle-free. They like to donate it to a charity and the only trouble I had was finding one who would accept a “used” mattress.
Everything worked out though and that mattress was wisked away.
I ended up ordering the 10" Arctic Dreams mattress and while my wife and I sleep great on it, we may end up returning it as well.

It is a bit too soft so we end up sinking way down into the mattress to the point it is hard to move around on it. Also the edges compress so much it almost kicks you out of bed if you are too close to the edge.

Also, there is a “mountain” (picture a tent) in the middle of the mattress that seems to be there whether it is on our frame or on our floor. The other mattress I returned was the same way.

Perhaps what it comes down to is that I want a ~$300 mattress to perform like a more expensive one!

Will any of these online foam mattresses struggle with edge support and a “tent” in the middle (maybe due to being compressed)?

I think I know now what I need to look for though-a more medium firm option that is 10" thick.

One question I have–is firmness more due to the density level of polyfoam/memory foam or is firmness more due to ILD level? Or are they directly related?

Also, what characteristics in a foam mattress do I need to look for to have the highest edge support possible and to have more of a feeling of laying “on” the mattress as opposed to “in” the mattress?

To put it is perspective, my last mattress was a super-cheap probably 7"-8" inch thick spring mattress with a 1.5"-2" memory foam topper. So I was pretty much “on” the mattress except for the topper.

Anyway, I guess I have more research to do.

I really like Dreamfoam as a company and would consider trying a more expensive mattress from them, but I don’t want to “wear out my welcome”, so to speak, with their return policy.

Thanks for any suggestions and all the information.

By the way, as a total side note-I realize that many of these online mattress makers do not own their factories, but I guess they just give said factory the specs and have them build the mattresses. Do you have any knowledge of what factory Tuft and Needle is made at, or Eve Mattress?

12

Hi The Riddler,

[quote]I ended up ordering the 10" Arctic Dreams mattress and while my wife and I sleep great on it, we may end up returning it as well. It is a bit too soft so we end up sinking way down into the mattress to the point it is hard to move around on it. Also the edges compress so much it almost kicks you out of bed if you are too close to the edge.
[/quote]

As we discussed before, this is a slightly softer version than you first Arctic Dreams 8" mattress, and at your higher BMI you may not like this comfort. There is no extra edge reinforcement system built into this mattress, so sleeping too close to the edge it will be a bit softer.

Hyperbole aside, I can’t tell you if what you are describing is some normal softening on the sides of the mattress where you sleep and the center of the mattress staying a bit firmer and not being broken in as much, and if that is accentuated and accelerated by the base you are using (which would still be evident if placed on the floor for one night). Two mattresses doing the same thing would normally lead my thoughts in that direction.

While price isn’t necessarily an indicator of quality, a less expensive mattress will necessarily have shortcomings as compared to items using more costly materials, which we’ve touched upon in some of the other posts in this thread. It certainly would be nice to get “million dollar” performance on a ten-cent budget. :slight_smile:

A higher density, thicker and firmer base foam can assist with edge reinforcement, and there are some models that do include a racetrack foam edge system, or models that use innersprings with edge reinforcement systems. The lowest priced mattresses usually can not afford such systems in their design. There are some comments about edge support in post #2 here and the posts it links to. And as I can’t see your mattress, I can’t determine if what you’re describing as a “tent” is a by-product of the normal breaking-in process of a mattress, something accentuated/accelerated by the base you are using, or a defect, but two mattresses doing the same thing have me thinking it is more of an issue of perception or usage in your home, as compression wouldn’t cause a product to raise in the center of the mattress. But this is all “theory at a distance”.

In polyfoam density and hardness (IFD/ILD) are not necessarily related, as they are in latex. A harder polyfoam would be a higher IFD/ILD, and the higher the density the more durable that foam will be.

Firmer foam layers and materials that are more resilient (higher density polyfoam, latex, innersprings) can all be good choices in the place of softer polyfoams, softer latex or memory foams. It is possible that you may prefer the feel of innersprings used for the deeper support of a mattress, as opposed to a polyfoam core, based upon your previous experience.

Tuft and Needle does final assembly in Southern California, and the Eve mattresses sold in the USA are made in Indiana. This isn’t meaningful information that would make a difference to the average consumer, as they wouldn’t be familiar with different mattress manufacturing facilities, so it’s not something that I generally track.

Phoenix

13

Hi Phoenix,

I was wondering if my issue could be the frame also. What causes me to be unsure is that we have only been sleeping on the mattress for one week and the “hump” in the middle seemed to be there even when we first tried it out.

I am a bit frustrated because I am outside of my return period for that frame. However, possibly I could argue that it is making my mattress perform poorly and get a refund…

The idea of a firmer mattress with more edge support and the higher density core had me considering the Eve Mattress. Via chat their specs are:

our top layer, which is the next generation foam layer, is 2 inches thick and has a density of 2.5lb/ft3
our second layer, which is the active response layer, is 1 inch thick and has a density of 3.0lb/ft3
our third layer, which is the support base layer, is 6.5 inches thick and has a density of 2.43lb/ft3

Now of course I have pause because the top layers are low density for memory foam. The chat rep also stated that these are actual memory foams and not something like Energex.

What do you think?

And about the Addable Mattress: I know you caution people of a higher weight with the mattress, but the materials seem very high quality. Can you expand on that?

I was asking about the factories because it seems like anyone could just pair up with one of these factories and, “BOOM” , create a new online mattress company. Is that basically the case (barring the details of starting a business of course)

Thanks!

14

Hi The Riddler,

[quote]The idea of a firmer mattress with more edge support and the higher density core had me considering the Eve Mattress. Via chat their specs are:
our top layer, which is the next generation foam layer, is 2 inches thick and has a density of 2.5lb/ft3
our second layer, which is the active response layer, is 1 inch thick and has a density of 3.0lb/ft3
our third layer, which is the support base layer, is 6.5 inches thick and has a density of 2.43lb/ft3
Now of course I have pause because the top layers are low density for memory foam. The chat rep also stated that these are actual memory foams and not something like Energex.
What do you think?[/quote]

As I think you’re already aware, the 3" of 3 lb or lower density memory foam in the upper layers are a weak link in this mattress and based upon the durability guidelines I linked to in one of my earlier replies in this thread I would provide a strong caution against a product using such componentry. Plus, you said you like to be “on” the mattress versus “in”, and memory foam will allow you to sink in more, so that’s another reason you may not like such a product.

I explain this in my synopsis in the simplified choice thread on the Addable. There are no lower quality materials or weak links in this mattress, but for higher BMIs I would provide a caution with the 4 lb memory foam and the 1.8 lb polyfoam, as ideally I’d recommend 5 lb memory foam and 2 lb polyfoam for higher BMIs, but for the price the mattress offers an excellent value in relation to the componentry it contains.

Yes, while you are correct it is not as simple as that, there are plenty of people with no mattress experience starting up their own mattress companies. Many are schooled in SEO marketing versus mattress construction.

Phoenix

15

EEE… Honestly I don’t know about the dreamfoam. I bought one like…little more than a year back and you know where it is now? Standing in my garage. I mean…in my opinion it’s so lukewarm. I don’t feel like it’s the worst thing out there but I def do not think that it’s…like. Not that it’s hyped but…it’s jus OK, in my opinion. I don’t know if anyone invest in stocks but I’ll use this analogy: Is it the worst place to place your money? Perhaps not. Are there better options out there if you dig a little further, undoubtedly.
Hope this helps

16

Hi MegaevolutionSully01,

I’ve deleted your post in this thread and two others, as they were quite frankly meaningless/nonsensical and contributed nothing to the forum. Please abide by the rules of the forum, or your posting privileges here will be revoked.

If you’re truly looking for information about selecting a mattress, I recommend you start by reading through the mattress shopping tutorial here. If you are looking for something in the Norfolk area, some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Norfolk/Hampton/Newport News area are listed in post #2 here.

NOTE ADDED: Unfortunately, you’ve chosen to continue to post unrelated and promotional material in other threads, which has resulted in the suspension of your posting privileges here.

Phoenix

17

Hi Phoenix
Yes you have me well educated about the memory foam density of 2.5 lbs/pcf being a lower quality. It was an immediate red flag.
A question though: in terms of durability, not necessarily quality of “memory foam characteristics”, would a 2.5 density memory foam have the same longevity (or more?) than a polyfoam with a 2.5 density? I hope that question makes sense?

Also, I re-read the durability guidelines for higher BMI people, and you mention for polyfoam that you should go for at least a 2lbs/pcf. Assuming you get polyfoam at that density or higher, does it matter how many inches there are of this density material in terms of durability as long as it is over that number and the higher density is on the top?

I think my new list is:
Love & Sleep Mattress by Nest
Addable
Tuft and Needle

Incidentally, did you know that Tuft and Needle is actually about to raise their prices…will be $900 for a king June 1st and onward…

18

Hi The Riddler,

A true HR polyfoam at 2.5 lb density would be much more durable than a memory foam at the same density.

Ideally I would recommend 2 lb density in the comfort layers for a polyform for people of a higher BMI.

This post about progressive mattress construction talks a bit about common layer thicknesses.

The thickness of a mattress overall is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness, etc.) and on all the other layers in the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how thick it may be.

Phoenix

19

Hi Phoenix,

Not tring to word parse, but would a “regular” HD Poly foam (you mentioned an HR foam) also be more durable than a memory foam of the same density (Like if they were each 2.5 lbs/cuft)?

Thanks

20

Hi The Riddler,

No worries. A 2.5 lb memory foam is a lower quality foam. A 2.5 lb polyfoam piece is a good quality foam. They’re different types of foams, so for the memory foam to be a more durable, the minimum density I would recommend at 4 lb, and preferably 5 lb.

Phoenix

21

Hello!

I hope everyone had a good June and will have a happy 4th of July!

Phoenix, I have some more questions for you if you don’t mind. (And thanks for all of your help).

As you know from my earlier posts, I was having a problem with “tenting” in the middle of my King sized mattress even though I only have had it a very short period of time. I have gone through a few different online options now and fully realize the reason (as you suspected) is that my frame is not supportive enough. Therefore, I am working on returning it and getting a better frame.

I am probably going to go with this from Ikea since it has solid, closely spaced slats (thanks for that information elsewhere on this forum!):

My question is this though–Will I still likely have an issue with a hump in the middle since this king foundations are usually two separate pieces usually just held by wing nuts? I have actually read that king mattresses can have center-hump issues because many times their foundations are two pieces so the center support being so rigid, along with the fact nobody sleeps in the middle, cause humps pretty regularly.

I guess what I am asking is, will this be a regular occurrence that I could just AVOID altogether by getting a queen size instead? We had a super cheap queen before and never had this issue. I wonder if the foundations being one piece for a queen would help. I expect some hump due to the sheer size of a king. But I don’t expect a huge lump immediately upon use if that makes sense.

Also, if I may, another comment/question. I reached out too Addable as they are a trusted member. They were very helpful and frank with me that their mattress probably would not be a good fit and they recommended a spring might work well for me with a topper because a spring can give better support for my BMI (about 31).

Soooo, I was looking at some Ikeas spring and foam mattress options again and noticed something: They describe some of the foams in their mattresses as “High Resilience foams”. I tend to think it is actual HR since not all of their mattresses state that. My question is-do you know if they are actually high resilience as opposed to just High Density?

Here are some examples:

Thanks in advance!

22

Hi The Riddler,

The center “hump” that is sometimes experienced with users of king mattresses can arrive from various sources. Speaking to the foundation, using two twin extra long foundations, there can be an issue when there is a difference in surface height of the foundation around the perimeter of the foundation as compared to the center region, or if the center region of the foundations sag when in use. In most wood platform-style foundations, the wood and the slat network are on the same level and the wood slats are generally supportive enough to not deflect and overall tend to provide a flat and level surface upon which to place a mattress.

The more common issue (overall) with a king mattress seeming to be a bit “higher” in the center comes from the mattress itself. This can be initially in the “breaking-in” of the mattress, most notably the cover material. This can also occur over a longer period of time with lower-density foams that impress excessively in the areas where one sleeps, which tends to be on the left and right side of a king mattress, and not in the center. Some of this sensation is also the simple fact that the central area of a king mattress is generally not used nearly as much over time as the left and right side, so even with good quality and durable materials, the foams will break in at different rates from the center of the mattress, leaving that area feeling a bit firmer.

Some of these issues are more “normal” effects with mattress use, some are the result of poor quality materials, and other are the result of the mattress having no choice but to conform to the componentry upon which it is placed.

As for the word definitions of polyfoam, see this article. I would advise you to reply upon actual density numbers as opposed to descriptors. Mattress companies will often refer to 1.5 lb polyfoam and above as “high density”, but I recommend 1.8 lb or above as a better standard. High-resiliency polyfoam technically is 2.5 lb density or above along with a compression modulus of 2.4 or above.

Phoenix

23

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the reply and further information. I understand now what I need in terms of a foundation and have concluded (as you suspected) that the frame it causing the immediate first night hump since it is lacking support in the center of each respective side while the center of the unit as a whole is very well supported. Then I realize that the king will possibly do that anyway for the reasons that nobody sleeps in the middle. Might just go back to a queen!!

After trying some foam mattresses from online I may end up going back to springs for more “support” and then putting a nice topper on it.

As I saw elsewhere on the forum here, Neal with Addable/Spindle also recommended to me getting a flippable spring mattress with a topper due to my answers on Addable’s mattress quiz and several additional things we discussed over email.

(On that note-what a great, professional person to “speak” with. I can see why they are commercial members here!)

I am not positive I will do that, but am really considering.

I wanted to ask in terms of simple durability between the two mattresses below, which would likely be more durable?

I would also be trying this topper on it from Sleep on Latex (2" topper). I would think this would help increase the life of the mattress for us, no?

I am wondering between:

Spring Dreams from Dreamfoam. Per their chat, the foam on either side of this mattress is 1.5 pcf. I am not sure how many inches “tall” the coil units are or how thick the foam is but will find out.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamfoam-Bedding-Spring-Two-Sided-Mattress/dp/B016NELUX2

Arctic Dreams 8" from Dreamfoam (I know this is a great value-choice, just not sure about durability compared to coil springs from the same company)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRKZW0G/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_2_w?th=1

I would also consider (less likely) these other spring mattresses:

Ikea Haugesund or Haugesvar. I am not sure of the coil gauge on these but the count (I know that is not ALL-important) is significantly lower than Spring Dreams. Also not flippable.

Original Mattress factory (Classic). This is flippable but is a totally different system in that it is Bonnell-style.

Any input on those?

Again, I really appreciate your time. I had no idea mattress shopping could be so challenging! I am more knowledgeable now (thanks to this site and the other professionals you recommend) that I feel like a foam chemist or engineer…lol.

My wife needs the computer now…she came up and asked if I was “writing my peeps”… Yup - I’m a mattress nerd now :slight_smile:

24

Hi The Riddler,

[quote]As I saw elsewhere on the forum here, Neal with Addable/Spindle also recommended to me getting a flippable spring mattress with a topper due to my answers on Addable’s mattress quiz and several additional things we discussed over email.
(On that note-what a great, professional person to “speak” with. I can see why they are commercial members here!)[/quote]

Yes, I agree and think highly of Neal at Spindle, his knowledge and the advice he provides.

Durability depends upon many factors, which is explained in much more detail in post #2 here.

I’ll provide some general comments upon the mattresses you mentioned, but I wouldn’t be able to predict the specific durability for each item for your own personal use, based upon the factor listed in the post I linked to earlier.

This would be a durable material and adding a topper to a mattress can extend the life of the foams beneath it.

This is one of the budget-friendly mattresses for which Dreamfoam is known. It uses good quality materials for the price point, but I would not consider it to be a more “premium” product for durability.

Yes, this offers an excellent value for an all-foam mattress, but I wouldn’t be able to predict how long this mattress would last versus the Spring Dreams, nor am I aware of any durability tests comparing the two items. I would consider both to be in the more economical category.

The Haugesvar uses thicker and higher density 1.8 lb polyfoam versus the 1.5 lb in the Haugersund. The actual specifics of the thickness of the layers isn’t provided on the Ikea site.

[quote]Original Mattress factory (Classic). This is flippable but is a totally different system in that it is Bonnell-style[/quote].

The 312 Bonnell 13 gauge spring system is a quite basic and traditional unit. There isn’t complete information listed about the foams and pre-compressed layers used in the Classic model, so you’d want to know that.

Overall, all of the mattresses you’re listing here would be in the “more basic” end of the spectrum, but some of which offer “good value” for the price point, As long as you manage your expectations and don’t expect the durability and consistency of comfort to match items using more “premium” materials (such as latex and higher-density polyfoams or memory foams), I would consider a 3-5 year comfort life as realistic for items like this.

Phoenix