Questions about Dreamfoam, Ikea Mattresses and Frames, Addable

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
11

Well it has been awhile since I posted-I hope you are doing well!
I will go ahead and share my return story with Dreamfoam if you are interested:
I returned the 8 inch mattress as you know and it was relatively hassle-free. They like to donate it to a charity and the only trouble I had was finding one who would accept a “used” mattress.
Everything worked out though and that mattress was wisked away.
I ended up ordering the 10" Arctic Dreams mattress and while my wife and I sleep great on it, we may end up returning it as well.

It is a bit too soft so we end up sinking way down into the mattress to the point it is hard to move around on it. Also the edges compress so much it almost kicks you out of bed if you are too close to the edge.

Also, there is a “mountain” (picture a tent) in the middle of the mattress that seems to be there whether it is on our frame or on our floor. The other mattress I returned was the same way.

Perhaps what it comes down to is that I want a ~$300 mattress to perform like a more expensive one!

Will any of these online foam mattresses struggle with edge support and a “tent” in the middle (maybe due to being compressed)?

I think I know now what I need to look for though-a more medium firm option that is 10" thick.

One question I have–is firmness more due to the density level of polyfoam/memory foam or is firmness more due to ILD level? Or are they directly related?

Also, what characteristics in a foam mattress do I need to look for to have the highest edge support possible and to have more of a feeling of laying “on” the mattress as opposed to “in” the mattress?

To put it is perspective, my last mattress was a super-cheap probably 7"-8" inch thick spring mattress with a 1.5"-2" memory foam topper. So I was pretty much “on” the mattress except for the topper.

Anyway, I guess I have more research to do.

I really like Dreamfoam as a company and would consider trying a more expensive mattress from them, but I don’t want to “wear out my welcome”, so to speak, with their return policy.

Thanks for any suggestions and all the information.

By the way, as a total side note-I realize that many of these online mattress makers do not own their factories, but I guess they just give said factory the specs and have them build the mattresses. Do you have any knowledge of what factory Tuft and Needle is made at, or Eve Mattress?

12

Hi The Riddler,

[quote]I ended up ordering the 10" Arctic Dreams mattress and while my wife and I sleep great on it, we may end up returning it as well. It is a bit too soft so we end up sinking way down into the mattress to the point it is hard to move around on it. Also the edges compress so much it almost kicks you out of bed if you are too close to the edge.
[/quote]

As we discussed before, this is a slightly softer version than you first Arctic Dreams 8" mattress, and at your higher BMI you may not like this comfort. There is no extra edge reinforcement system built into this mattress, so sleeping too close to the edge it will be a bit softer.

Hyperbole aside, I can’t tell you if what you are describing is some normal softening on the sides of the mattress where you sleep and the center of the mattress staying a bit firmer and not being broken in as much, and if that is accentuated and accelerated by the base you are using (which would still be evident if placed on the floor for one night). Two mattresses doing the same thing would normally lead my thoughts in that direction.

While price isn’t necessarily an indicator of quality, a less expensive mattress will necessarily have shortcomings as compared to items using more costly materials, which we’ve touched upon in some of the other posts in this thread. It certainly would be nice to get “million dollar” performance on a ten-cent budget. :slight_smile:

A higher density, thicker and firmer base foam can assist with edge reinforcement, and there are some models that do include a racetrack foam edge system, or models that use innersprings with edge reinforcement systems. The lowest priced mattresses usually can not afford such systems in their design. There are some comments about edge support in post #2 here and the posts it links to. And as I can’t see your mattress, I can’t determine if what you’re describing as a “tent” is a by-product of the normal breaking-in process of a mattress, something accentuated/accelerated by the base you are using, or a defect, but two mattresses doing the same thing have me thinking it is more of an issue of perception or usage in your home, as compression wouldn’t cause a product to raise in the center of the mattress. But this is all “theory at a distance”.

In polyfoam density and hardness (IFD/ILD) are not necessarily related, as they are in latex. A harder polyfoam would be a higher IFD/ILD, and the higher the density the more durable that foam will be.

Firmer foam layers and materials that are more resilient (higher density polyfoam, latex, innersprings) can all be good choices in the place of softer polyfoams, softer latex or memory foams. It is possible that you may prefer the feel of innersprings used for the deeper support of a mattress, as opposed to a polyfoam core, based upon your previous experience.

Tuft and Needle does final assembly in Southern California, and the Eve mattresses sold in the USA are made in Indiana. This isn’t meaningful information that would make a difference to the average consumer, as they wouldn’t be familiar with different mattress manufacturing facilities, so it’s not something that I generally track.

Phoenix

13

Hi Phoenix,

I was wondering if my issue could be the frame also. What causes me to be unsure is that we have only been sleeping on the mattress for one week and the “hump” in the middle seemed to be there even when we first tried it out.

I am a bit frustrated because I am outside of my return period for that frame. However, possibly I could argue that it is making my mattress perform poorly and get a refund…

The idea of a firmer mattress with more edge support and the higher density core had me considering the Eve Mattress. Via chat their specs are:

our top layer, which is the next generation foam layer, is 2 inches thick and has a density of 2.5lb/ft3
our second layer, which is the active response layer, is 1 inch thick and has a density of 3.0lb/ft3
our third layer, which is the support base layer, is 6.5 inches thick and has a density of 2.43lb/ft3

Now of course I have pause because the top layers are low density for memory foam. The chat rep also stated that these are actual memory foams and not something like Energex.

What do you think?

And about the Addable Mattress: I know you caution people of a higher weight with the mattress, but the materials seem very high quality. Can you expand on that?

I was asking about the factories because it seems like anyone could just pair up with one of these factories and, “BOOM” , create a new online mattress company. Is that basically the case (barring the details of starting a business of course)

Thanks!

14

Hi The Riddler,

[quote]The idea of a firmer mattress with more edge support and the higher density core had me considering the Eve Mattress. Via chat their specs are:
our top layer, which is the next generation foam layer, is 2 inches thick and has a density of 2.5lb/ft3
our second layer, which is the active response layer, is 1 inch thick and has a density of 3.0lb/ft3
our third layer, which is the support base layer, is 6.5 inches thick and has a density of 2.43lb/ft3
Now of course I have pause because the top layers are low density for memory foam. The chat rep also stated that these are actual memory foams and not something like Energex.
What do you think?[/quote]

As I think you’re already aware, the 3" of 3 lb or lower density memory foam in the upper layers are a weak link in this mattress and based upon the durability guidelines I linked to in one of my earlier replies in this thread I would provide a strong caution against a product using such componentry. Plus, you said you like to be “on” the mattress versus “in”, and memory foam will allow you to sink in more, so that’s another reason you may not like such a product.

I explain this in my synopsis in the simplified choice thread on the Addable. There are no lower quality materials or weak links in this mattress, but for higher BMIs I would provide a caution with the 4 lb memory foam and the 1.8 lb polyfoam, as ideally I’d recommend 5 lb memory foam and 2 lb polyfoam for higher BMIs, but for the price the mattress offers an excellent value in relation to the componentry it contains.

Yes, while you are correct it is not as simple as that, there are plenty of people with no mattress experience starting up their own mattress companies. Many are schooled in SEO marketing versus mattress construction.

Phoenix

15

EEE… Honestly I don’t know about the dreamfoam. I bought one like…little more than a year back and you know where it is now? Standing in my garage. I mean…in my opinion it’s so lukewarm. I don’t feel like it’s the worst thing out there but I def do not think that it’s…like. Not that it’s hyped but…it’s jus OK, in my opinion. I don’t know if anyone invest in stocks but I’ll use this analogy: Is it the worst place to place your money? Perhaps not. Are there better options out there if you dig a little further, undoubtedly.
Hope this helps

16

Hi MegaevolutionSully01,

I’ve deleted your post in this thread and two others, as they were quite frankly meaningless/nonsensical and contributed nothing to the forum. Please abide by the rules of the forum, or your posting privileges here will be revoked.

If you’re truly looking for information about selecting a mattress, I recommend you start by reading through the mattress shopping tutorial here. If you are looking for something in the Norfolk area, some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Norfolk/Hampton/Newport News area are listed in post #2 here.

NOTE ADDED: Unfortunately, you’ve chosen to continue to post unrelated and promotional material in other threads, which has resulted in the suspension of your posting privileges here.

Phoenix

17

Hi Phoenix
Yes you have me well educated about the memory foam density of 2.5 lbs/pcf being a lower quality. It was an immediate red flag.
A question though: in terms of durability, not necessarily quality of “memory foam characteristics”, would a 2.5 density memory foam have the same longevity (or more?) than a polyfoam with a 2.5 density? I hope that question makes sense?

Also, I re-read the durability guidelines for higher BMI people, and you mention for polyfoam that you should go for at least a 2lbs/pcf. Assuming you get polyfoam at that density or higher, does it matter how many inches there are of this density material in terms of durability as long as it is over that number and the higher density is on the top?

I think my new list is:
Love & Sleep Mattress by Nest
Addable
Tuft and Needle

Incidentally, did you know that Tuft and Needle is actually about to raise their prices…will be $900 for a king June 1st and onward…

18

Hi The Riddler,

A true HR polyfoam at 2.5 lb density would be much more durable than a memory foam at the same density.

Ideally I would recommend 2 lb density in the comfort layers for a polyform for people of a higher BMI.

This post about progressive mattress construction talks a bit about common layer thicknesses.

The thickness of a mattress overall is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness, etc.) and on all the other layers in the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. Regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how thick it may be.

Phoenix

19

Hi Phoenix,

Not tring to word parse, but would a “regular” HD Poly foam (you mentioned an HR foam) also be more durable than a memory foam of the same density (Like if they were each 2.5 lbs/cuft)?

Thanks

20

Hi The Riddler,

No worries. A 2.5 lb memory foam is a lower quality foam. A 2.5 lb polyfoam piece is a good quality foam. They’re different types of foams, so for the memory foam to be a more durable, the minimum density I would recommend at 4 lb, and preferably 5 lb.

Phoenix

21

Hello!

I hope everyone had a good June and will have a happy 4th of July!

Phoenix, I have some more questions for you if you don’t mind. (And thanks for all of your help).

As you know from my earlier posts, I was having a problem with “tenting” in the middle of my King sized mattress even though I only have had it a very short period of time. I have gone through a few different online options now and fully realize the reason (as you suspected) is that my frame is not supportive enough. Therefore, I am working on returning it and getting a better frame.

I am probably going to go with this from Ikea since it has solid, closely spaced slats (thanks for that information elsewhere on this forum!):

My question is this though–Will I still likely have an issue with a hump in the middle since this king foundations are usually two separate pieces usually just held by wing nuts? I have actually read that king mattresses can have center-hump issues because many times their foundations are two pieces so the center support being so rigid, along with the fact nobody sleeps in the middle, cause humps pretty regularly.

I guess what I am asking is, will this be a regular occurrence that I could just AVOID altogether by getting a queen size instead? We had a super cheap queen before and never had this issue. I wonder if the foundations being one piece for a queen would help. I expect some hump due to the sheer size of a king. But I don’t expect a huge lump immediately upon use if that makes sense.

Also, if I may, another comment/question. I reached out too Addable as they are a trusted member. They were very helpful and frank with me that their mattress probably would not be a good fit and they recommended a spring might work well for me with a topper because a spring can give better support for my BMI (about 31).

Soooo, I was looking at some Ikeas spring and foam mattress options again and noticed something: They describe some of the foams in their mattresses as “High Resilience foams”. I tend to think it is actual HR since not all of their mattresses state that. My question is-do you know if they are actually high resilience as opposed to just High Density?

Here are some examples:

Thanks in advance!

22

Hi The Riddler,

The center “hump” that is sometimes experienced with users of king mattresses can arrive from various sources. Speaking to the foundation, using two twin extra long foundations, there can be an issue when there is a difference in surface height of the foundation around the perimeter of the foundation as compared to the center region, or if the center region of the foundations sag when in use. In most wood platform-style foundations, the wood and the slat network are on the same level and the wood slats are generally supportive enough to not deflect and overall tend to provide a flat and level surface upon which to place a mattress.

The more common issue (overall) with a king mattress seeming to be a bit “higher” in the center comes from the mattress itself. This can be initially in the “breaking-in” of the mattress, most notably the cover material. This can also occur over a longer period of time with lower-density foams that impress excessively in the areas where one sleeps, which tends to be on the left and right side of a king mattress, and not in the center. Some of this sensation is also the simple fact that the central area of a king mattress is generally not used nearly as much over time as the left and right side, so even with good quality and durable materials, the foams will break in at different rates from the center of the mattress, leaving that area feeling a bit firmer.

Some of these issues are more “normal” effects with mattress use, some are the result of poor quality materials, and other are the result of the mattress having no choice but to conform to the componentry upon which it is placed.

As for the word definitions of polyfoam, see this article. I would advise you to reply upon actual density numbers as opposed to descriptors. Mattress companies will often refer to 1.5 lb polyfoam and above as “high density”, but I recommend 1.8 lb or above as a better standard. High-resiliency polyfoam technically is 2.5 lb density or above along with a compression modulus of 2.4 or above.

Phoenix

23

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the reply and further information. I understand now what I need in terms of a foundation and have concluded (as you suspected) that the frame it causing the immediate first night hump since it is lacking support in the center of each respective side while the center of the unit as a whole is very well supported. Then I realize that the king will possibly do that anyway for the reasons that nobody sleeps in the middle. Might just go back to a queen!!

After trying some foam mattresses from online I may end up going back to springs for more “support” and then putting a nice topper on it.

As I saw elsewhere on the forum here, Neal with Addable/Spindle also recommended to me getting a flippable spring mattress with a topper due to my answers on Addable’s mattress quiz and several additional things we discussed over email.

(On that note-what a great, professional person to “speak” with. I can see why they are commercial members here!)

I am not positive I will do that, but am really considering.

I wanted to ask in terms of simple durability between the two mattresses below, which would likely be more durable?

I would also be trying this topper on it from Sleep on Latex (2" topper). I would think this would help increase the life of the mattress for us, no?

I am wondering between:

Spring Dreams from Dreamfoam. Per their chat, the foam on either side of this mattress is 1.5 pcf. I am not sure how many inches “tall” the coil units are or how thick the foam is but will find out.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamfoam-Bedding-Spring-Two-Sided-Mattress/dp/B016NELUX2

Arctic Dreams 8" from Dreamfoam (I know this is a great value-choice, just not sure about durability compared to coil springs from the same company)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRKZW0G/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_2_w?th=1

I would also consider (less likely) these other spring mattresses:

Ikea Haugesund or Haugesvar. I am not sure of the coil gauge on these but the count (I know that is not ALL-important) is significantly lower than Spring Dreams. Also not flippable.

Original Mattress factory (Classic). This is flippable but is a totally different system in that it is Bonnell-style.

Any input on those?

Again, I really appreciate your time. I had no idea mattress shopping could be so challenging! I am more knowledgeable now (thanks to this site and the other professionals you recommend) that I feel like a foam chemist or engineer…lol.

My wife needs the computer now…she came up and asked if I was “writing my peeps”… Yup - I’m a mattress nerd now :slight_smile:

24

Hi The Riddler,

[quote]As I saw elsewhere on the forum here, Neal with Addable/Spindle also recommended to me getting a flippable spring mattress with a topper due to my answers on Addable’s mattress quiz and several additional things we discussed over email.
(On that note-what a great, professional person to “speak” with. I can see why they are commercial members here!)[/quote]

Yes, I agree and think highly of Neal at Spindle, his knowledge and the advice he provides.

Durability depends upon many factors, which is explained in much more detail in post #2 here.

I’ll provide some general comments upon the mattresses you mentioned, but I wouldn’t be able to predict the specific durability for each item for your own personal use, based upon the factor listed in the post I linked to earlier.

This would be a durable material and adding a topper to a mattress can extend the life of the foams beneath it.

This is one of the budget-friendly mattresses for which Dreamfoam is known. It uses good quality materials for the price point, but I would not consider it to be a more “premium” product for durability.

Yes, this offers an excellent value for an all-foam mattress, but I wouldn’t be able to predict how long this mattress would last versus the Spring Dreams, nor am I aware of any durability tests comparing the two items. I would consider both to be in the more economical category.

The Haugesvar uses thicker and higher density 1.8 lb polyfoam versus the 1.5 lb in the Haugersund. The actual specifics of the thickness of the layers isn’t provided on the Ikea site.

[quote]Original Mattress factory (Classic). This is flippable but is a totally different system in that it is Bonnell-style[/quote].

The 312 Bonnell 13 gauge spring system is a quite basic and traditional unit. There isn’t complete information listed about the foams and pre-compressed layers used in the Classic model, so you’d want to know that.

Overall, all of the mattresses you’re listing here would be in the “more basic” end of the spectrum, but some of which offer “good value” for the price point, As long as you manage your expectations and don’t expect the durability and consistency of comfort to match items using more “premium” materials (such as latex and higher-density polyfoams or memory foams), I would consider a 3-5 year comfort life as realistic for items like this.

Phoenix

25

Thanks Phoenix,

I have looked at some the of commercial members of the Underground and I am struggling to find a spring mattress that is more “mid-grade” as opposed to “economy” like the ones I mentioned in my last post.

I am on a tight budget and while I wouldn’t mind going over the prices of the economy ones I linked, I need to be below some of the spring mattresses I see.

If I could be around $600 for a king that would be awesome (difficult I know). Can you recommend where I might look for more of a “middle” price on a spring mattress?

Thanks!

26

Hi The Riddler,

I have a listing for those that have a more restricted budget in post #4 here and the posts it links to also include many of the better lower budget online options I’m aware of as well. I know this certainly isn’t a complete list, as there are hundreds of mattress brands across the country, and sometimes when you are on a tight budget you can find some good values from local mattress factories as well. One of the “less expensive” innerspring mattresses using higher quality materials would be along the lines of the Eco Sleep from Arizona Premium, but that starts at $895.00.

Phoenix

27

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your responses!

I have a question between these two mattresses:

The Dreamfoam Spring Dreams:

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamfoam-Bedding-Spring-...ttress/dp/B016NELUX2

and the Original Mattress factory Regency Sapphire:

I have discovered (through chat on Dreamfoam and via phone with OMF) that they both use 1.5 PCF foam on both sides of these flippable mattresses.

Since the comfort layer is the same density should these mattresses have about the same level of durability in theory? They have different coil systems (pocket vs offset) and are within 1" of each other in overall mattress thickness.

It seems that it would not make sense to pay extra for the Regency since the all important comfort layer has the same density as the less expensive Spring Dreams.

Am I thinking correctly, or placing too much emphasis on the comfort layer?

Thanks!

28

Hi The Riddler,

Unfortunately, there isn’t an overall durability algorithm that can predict the longevity of a mattress based upon componentry used, as there are entirely too many variables involved besides the density of the foam layers.

In the two mattresses you’re comparing, I don’t know the exact configuration of each item with complete details of all padding layers within each mattress. The Regency seems to use a fiber pad along with two different layers of polyfoam, and their spring unit is an LFK with a border rod. The Spring Dreams uses a pocketed spring unit without a border rod and I believe has a layer of foam in the quilt and a layer of polyfoam on top of the spring unit. Both mattresses are two sided, as you mentioned. I’m unaware of the ILD of the polyfoams used, as this would also have an impact upon durability. I’d probably put both items in the same range of durability, as they are both in a more basic price range and attempt to represent a good value for a lower price point. The Regency would probably have a bit more of a “firmish” overall feel with the use of a border rod and the type of spring (LFK versus pocketed), with the Spring Dreams probably contouring a bit more. Between the two I’d choose mostly based upon the comfort preference you desire, pricing, and applicability for your specific needs (all parts of your personal value equation) to determine what might make the best value for you.

Phoenix

29

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I actually took an opportunity and went to try out some mattresses at Ikea and the Original Mattress factory.

All things considered (my low budget being one of them at this time unfortunately) I am considering these two:

This is one sided with pocket coils (only 564 in a Queen-how many pocket coils should a Queen have?) with a foam encasement/edge. It is one sided with about 2" of solid (non convoluted)1.5 lb pcf foam. I am not sure what gauge the wire is nor if it is made in North America. This would be placed on the Ikea Espevar foundation: Products - IKEA

OR

This is two sided with Bonnell coils (390 in a Queen). It didn’t really have any foam to speak of…This would be placed on their “working box springs”.

I realize these are definitely budget choices and I am wondering if you would think that I should also choose between these two based…

“…mostly based upon the comfort preference you desire, pricing, and applicability for your specific needs (all parts of your personal value equation ) to determine what might make the best value for you .”…like you mentioned previously on the others?

I realize I am all over the place and I apologize. It did help to go and actually lay on some mattresses (duh) and I realize that I do not mind a Bonnell coil in general except for the motion transfer. I am not sure if a pocket coil like Ikea’s would be as durable as a Bonnell system?

Two adults will be sleeping on whatever we get full time.

The Original Mattress sales rep said he really could not recommend the Classic except for children or part time adult use. I do not think he was trying to sell me a higher priced unit for the sake of it but it did make me feel concerned about even trying it.
I think our old mattress may have had under 200 coils and was a Queen…I would certainly not buy that mattress again.

I appreciate your thoughts!

30

Hi The Riddler,

You can read a little more about innerspring basics here. Generally, with pocketed spring units a higher spring count is desirable, but as the article I linked to mentions there are more important things to consider than simply spring counts. It would be beneficial to know the country of origin of those springs (domestic pocketed spring tend to be higher quality than Asian imports – but not always), as well as the gauge, turns, quality of fabric encasement, method of joining (if glued, how many glue beads used)…things of this nature. A pocketed spring unit will tend to be better at motion isolation, but if not a solid spring unit or joined well to the foam edge reinforcement system, it can have lower durability.

The Classic OMF line has a few different offerings (classic, plush, luxury firm or Eurotop), so the amount of fiber pads and polyfoam will vary by model. The Bonnell spring unit used is the old-school “workhorse” 312 13-gauge (390 in a queen). This unit wouldn’t contour as well as a pocketed spring unit, but it can be a surprisingly robust unit, especially in an “old school” configuration using insulator pads with a small amount of polyfoam on top in a two-sided mattress using a working box spring. This product will tend to have a more firm overall feel, and the designs OMF uses here have been around for decades.

You could have had a mattress using a very basic Bonnell 252 unit, which would have had 299 springs in a queen.

As I know you’re already aware, you’ll be sacrificing durability with these choices, so as long as you’re “comfortable” with that (no pun intended) you can manage your expectations. Generally the spring unit is not the weak link in a mattress, but I am curious about the overall integrity/construction of the pocketed spring you mentioned, and I don’t have any personal experience with tearing down that unit. The 312-unit in the OMF can be durable, but you’d want to know completely the layers of which particular Classic model you might choose. As you already mentioned, there is a different feel between these two products and you may have a preference of one over the other.

Phoenix