Questions on Mattress Selection

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi. I am looking to replace my mattress from the mid 90’s. My wife is not getting a restful night’s sleep, and I am starting to wake up with some minor aches. I am 5’10", 160-165 lbs, in good shape, and my wife is 5’4", about 150 lbs. We both tend to be side and back sleepers, although my wife also likes to sleep on her stomach. Because the bed frame has wood slats (which I supplemented with additional slats), we do not use a box spring.

Based on this site, living in the Springfield, MA area, we have been to Fly By Night in Northampton as well as to Yankee Mattress. I drove by Sigma Mattress but have not gone in. I read through the mattress tutorial overviews as well as more of the detailed material before we visited the stores.

At Yankee Mattress, we tried both the Fairhaven and Nantucket mattresses as I was more interested in their mattresses with latex/coil construction. We thought that the Nantucket was a little too soft and liked the Fairhaven better. According to Yankee Mattress, the Fairhaven is one of their firmer mattresses. Here are the specific details of the two mattresses (top to bottom) after a call to their Agawam store.

Fairhaven:
1 1/2" of 1.5 density foam in quilting layer
2" natural blend Talalay latex from latex International, 28 ILD; they could not tell me the blend
1" 2.8 density foam - they could not say whether HD or HR; I am assuming HD
1" nano coils - pocket coils, 15 gage, approx. 1400 coils, made in USA; when asked why they use them, they said that the nano coils are more supportive than foam and provide more give than the coils beneath them
8" quanti combi coils, pocket coils, 14 gage, 1064 coils, made in USA; they said that “combi” means that the coils go all the way to the edge of the mattress
3/4" 1.8 density foam beneath coils; I am assuming HD

As a set, the Fairhaven has a wood and steel boxspring; that is what we tried in the store.

Nantucket:
1 1/2" of 1.5 density foam in quilting layer
3" natural blend Talalay latex from latex International, 21 ILD; they could not tell me the blend
Same coil system as Fairhaven (1" nano coils with 8" quanti combi coils underneath)
I assume the same 3/4" 1.8 density foam beneath coils

As a set, the Nantucket sits on a 7" boxspring with 4" pocketed coils which provides more give than the Fairhaven boxspring. That is what we tried in the store.

So, the major differences between the two appear to be in the comfort layer and in the boxspring.

At Fly By Night, my wife liked the Berkeley Ergonomics “Nordic.” On the BE slat system, she liked the “Firm” better than the “Soft” but when off the slat system, she liked the “Soft” better than the “Firm.” The staff at Fly BY Night thought that slats may have been set up in such a way to make the “Soft” on the slat system too soft. Because they set up their mattresses with “Firm” on one side and “Soft” on the other, we could not both be on the same mattress with the same comfort layer at the same time.

According to the Fly By Night literature as well as a call to the store, here are its details (top to bottom).

Nordic:
Cotton cover lined with wool
1" natural Talalay latex, approx. 19 ILD
Pre-compressed x-pocket carbon steel coils from Germany, 1551 coils, 1.15 mm diameter (soft) / 1.27 mm diameter (firm). I believe this is equivalent to 17 (soft) and 16 gage (firm)
Swedish hyper compressed coil base, 736 coils, 1.7 mm diameter (soft) / 1.9 mm diameter (firm). I believe this is a little stiffer than 14 gage.

I believe that the “Nordic” is the DC Swedish N on the BE website. What is interesting is that the difference between the soft and firm versions is solely in the coils.

For the time we spent on them in the store, alignment was good. However, I am trying to convince my wife to go back and spend at least 15 minutes (relaxed) on the two mattresses - Fairhaven and Nordic - to be more certain about the support.

One of the advantages of buying from Yankee is that the factory is local, wait time is about one week, and they have a free 100 night comfort adjustment. The BE mattress has a 4 week wait time and any adjustment would be a change in coils at dealer cost.

A couple questions:

  1. Are there any weak links in any of the above mattresses?
  2. This site says to never buy a mattress with more than about a inch or so of lower density polyfoam (less than 1.8 lbs or so) in the comfort layer and quilting combined. Both Yankee mattresses have 1 1/2" of 1.5 lb foam. Should that be a concern?
  3. Would the Nantucket feel quite different on a different boxspring (i.e., like that of the Fairhaven)?
  4. Given that we do not use a boxspring, should we try the Yankee mattresses on the floor, or will the Fairhaven boxspring be a close approximation?.
  5. Based on materials and construction, I found it surprising that we liked both the Fairhaven from Yankee Mattress and the Nordic (soft) from BE as I would have thought that the two would haven been closer in materials and construction. Am I missing something here?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

2

Hi tomliv,

No … there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability or useful life of any of the mattresses that you listed.

If a quilting layer is lower density or “unknown density” and is only “about an inch or so” or less then it doesn’t really have a meaningful effect on the durability of a mattress and a quilting layer will just affect the “surface feel” of the mattress. If the layer is quilted to the cover then the quilting pre compresses the foam and makes it a little more durable so in practical terms I use about 1.5" as a maximum thickness guideline for quilting layers so there would be no reason for concern. Once you are at about 2" or more then there would be a higher risk that premature foam softening or breakdown would affect the longer term durability or useful life of the mattress.

A box spring is an “active” component in a sleeping system and has springs inside it that will compress to some degree when you lie on the mattress and is a different product than a foundation which is designed to have minimal to no flex under the mattress. There are many in the industry that mix up the terminology between box springs and foundations even though they are very different products. You can tell which is which by applying firm pressure on the top surface and if has noticeable give or flex then it’s probably a box spring and if it’s firm with very little to no flex then it’s probably a foundation.

Every “active” layer and component in a mattress or sleeping system will have some effect on all the layers and components above and below it and on the mattress or sleeping system “as a whole”. While I don’t have any personal experience on any of their mattresses so they would be a much better source of guidance about these types of questions than I would … in general terms if you put the same mattress on top of two different box springs that have a different firmness level then it’s likely that you would feel a difference between them although some people that are less sensitive or perhaps that are lighter and don’t compress the deeper layers as much may feel less of a differences or in some cases no difference at all compared to others that are heavier or are more sensitive that may notice a bigger difference.

Putting the mattress on a foundation or a platform bedframe that has no flex at all (vs a box spring that flexes) would be similar to using the mattress on the floor. If the combination you tested uses a box spring that flexes (vs a foundation that has little to no flex) then I would purchase the combination because the box spring is an active part of the sleeping system and leaving it out can change the feel and performance of the mattress compared to what you tested.

The only reliable way to know how a mattress feels and performs for any specific person is based on your own careful testing and the specs of a mattress aren’t a reliable way to predict how a mattress will feel or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP.

Even the most knowledgeable mattress designers with years of experience with many different types and variations of all the different types of foam and other components will often be surprised at how a mattress actually “feels” in real life compared to how it was “supposed to feel” based on specs.

You are certainly looking at some great choices and I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix, thanks for the quick and thorough reply. It is wonderful to have such a resource in both yourself and the site when researching mattresses.

It is good to know that there are no weak links and that the 1 1/2" of 1.5 lb foam in the quilting should not be a concern. Yankee Mattress’ website says that the Nantucket has a “7” foundation with 4" pocketed coils" and calls it a “boxspring.” The Fairhaven has a “super strong wood and steel boxspring.” I will have to check like you recommended to see if we are really talking boxspring or foundation. I believe that the height of the Fairhaven’s “boxspring” was 2 1/2 inches … that or they said that 2 1/2 inches was the minimum height that they built. Anyway, good suggestion to understand that part of the equation better and about buying the system as a whole. I will also ask them about the Nantucket on the Fairhaven “boxspring.”

I may check out Sigma Mattress. Do you know much about them? Can you make any comparison between their products and Yankee Mattress?

4

Hi tomliv,

It’s been quite some time since I last talked with Jim there and I don’t know a great deal about them but I do know that they make a range of good quality mattresses, are transparent about the materials they use inside them, and that they fit the profile of the type of factory direct manufacturers that I think would be well worth including in your research.

I would need to know the information in this article about any mattresses you are considering to make any meaningful comments about how they would compare in terms of the quality and durability of the materials inside them.

Of course the only way to know how they would compare in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP and how they would feel to you would be based on your own careful testing and your own personal experience.

Phoenix

5

My wife does not like lots of options, so I decided not to bring up Sigma mattress. We went with Yankee mattress over BE because Yankee Mattress was local, had a free 100 night adjustment policy, and the mattress was a cohesive unit. We chose the Fairhaven; hope it will not be too firm for side sleeping, but we found the Nantucket too soft.

As the slats on my queen bed were 25+ years old (some were bowing … even after doubling them when purchasing the frame) and the bed has no center support, we chose to do away with the slats and use the Glideaway GS-3XS center support system (available at Yankee Mattress) and their 5" foundation which is wood and steel and has little flex to it. Given that their mattress warranty specifies that a queen-size bed have at least one center support, it seemed the right thing to do and I am expecting that it will provide a solid base for the mattress. A bonus was that Yankee had a split-queen foundation as an option. As we live in an old house with winding stairs, the split foundation will make moving it easy.

The only thing left at this time is to choose a mattress protector for the mattress. I have narrowed it down to the St. Dormeir wool/cotton mattress protector, the Cozy Pure organic cotton mattress protector, or the Suite Sleep organic cotton knit mattress protector. I read the post about the different protectors and their trade-offs. As the mattress itself has no wool in the quilting layer, I am leaning towards the St. Dormeir, but the mattress itself is already rather deep (13.5 inches). The other contender, based on price, is the Suite Sleep protector as long as my wife likes the pattern.

Do you know how thick the St. Dormeir is? Given the type of mattress we bought, will the difference in thickness between the wool protector and the two cotton protectors really make that much of a difference in the feel of the mattress? I am assuming that you cannot give a definitive answer, but is there anything in general that you can add?

Thanks!

6

The sticky about the forum discount made me realize that I forgot to mention it when I placed my order. I will have to call them in the morning and ask if they will still honor it.

7

Hi tomliv,

Thanks for the update and for letting us know what you ended up deciding … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

You made a great quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

I don’t know the thickness of the St Dormier but if you call them they would be able to tell you more accurately than I could. I believe it’s in the range of about 1/4".

The St Dormier is thinner than most cotton/wool quilted protectors but with the wool would be more water resistant than the Cozy Pure. The Cozy Pure is thicker than most knit cotton protectors but it would be more stretchy than the St Dormier and would have less effect on the feel of the mattress. I can’t really “quantify” the differences more than that but both of them would be great quality choices.

I don’t think that it would be an issue since you have been posting here and asking questions before you made your purchase.

Phoenix

8

You are correct. I called the company and they said it was approximately 1/4" thick.

Yankee Mattress was happy to apply the discount once they understood that it was this site that led me to them. And it was … they were one of the three places in the Springfield, MA area that you recommended.

9

Hi tomliv,

Thanks for confirming the thickness of the St Dormier protector and also for letting is know that there was no problem with your TMU discount as well … I appreciate it.

Phoenix

10

I just wanted to give an update. The Fairhaven from Yankee Mattress has been wonderful to sleep on, and both my wife and I are extremely happy with the choice. We look forward to many years of comfortable sleeping with this mattress.

We also went with the St Dormier wool/cotton protector. I was concerned about whether the standard depth would be sufficient since the Fairhaven is rather deep (approx. 13.5"), but there were no issues there. There had also been a couple posts about a strong smell of the protector, but I can say that I did not notice any particular smell, so no issues there. My wife, who typically is not a fan of terry cloth, had no problem sleeping on this protector, probably since the fitted sheet helps mask the feel of the terry cloth material.

We do have family in Norfolk, VA, so we visited the Cozy Pure showroom over Thanksgiving. I ended up buying the Pure Performance Lanoodle pillow (the one with the zipper) on sale. Love the feel (less dense and lighter than the memory foam pillow that my wife likes) and I was able to adjust the amount of fill to my liking.

Thank you for this website and the wealth of information it contains. It certainly helped us make some great choices and it educated me in the process.

11

Hi tomliv,

Thank you for taking the time to post here again on the forum. I’m glad that you are still enjoying your new Yankee Mattress and the St. Dormier mattress protector. And congratulations on your new pillow as well!

I hope you’ll post back here again and let us know how your mattress is doing down the road.

Phoenix