Reaching mattress hunting entropy in Ottawa Canada

Anyone remember the old joke about the man who goes to the doctor because he has a sore arm? The man says “Doc, my arm hurts when I do this”. The doctor comments “Well then stop doing that!” That’s about where I am now – maybe I shouldn’t have started researching mattresses.

First, let me note that the Mattress Underground is the finest source of consumer information I have ever encountered. Hands down! Bar none! Imagine a world where the consumer has this quality of information for every topic!

But alas I am now confronted with “too much information” and too few manufacturing options in my area, where I can apply this knowledge. As a result the past 6 weeks have been an exercise in futility and much to my wife’s chagrin – no mattress. The journey has certainly been eventful as predicted here at MU. The lack of knowledge by almost every sales person we encountered was astonishing. And it was impossible to avoid the major manufacturers lack of product information, with most sales people indicating that kind of data was not provided.

I did manage to find a few local manufacturers. One specialized in futons and had a tempurpedic franchise. Another made high-end latex mattresses and a low-end box spring line but didn’t sell this line locally (I would have to drive 2 hours to see an example). The only other manufacturer in the Ottawa area is the Lapensee Mattress Company based in Gatineau Quebec (just across the river from Ottawa).

This company offers just 4 variations of the same mattress. The support layer is a 6" core of 860 covered 13.5 gage pocket coil springs, with a steel edge support wire, all under a felt layer. The polyfoam is soy-based and Certi-Pur certified, The comfort quilt (upper layer of the comfort zone) is described as “soft cushioning with temperature regulating fibers”. The entire mattress is covered with “Coolmax Fabric” which supposedly eliminates humidity and heat.

The polyfoam is described as “high density” and is available in 2, 3 and 4 lb. weights. Talalay latex, memory foam and memory foam with granules (to dissipate heat) are also available.

The sequence of construction and cost for each king-size mattress model comfort zone is as follows:

“Essential” - $1149 – 2" of quilt of 2 lb. HD foam / 2" of 2 lb. HD foam

  • less coils than all other models
    “Classique” – $1949 – 2" of quilt of 2 lb. HD foam / 2" of 3 lb. HD foam
    “Elegance” - $2199 – 2" of quilt of 2 lb. HD foam / 2" of 4 lb. HD foam
    “Excellence” - $2899 – 2" of quilt of 3 lb. HD foam / 2" of 2 lb. HD foam

After testing each version my wife preferred a semi-firm version of the “Elegance” model. I preferred a similar model but with a latex layer in the comfort zone. Swapping out the HD Polyfoam for the latex adds $100.

In the description here at MU of mattress comfort layers the point is made that only HR (High Resilience 2.5 lbs or higher) polyfoam is suitable for the comfort layer. When I queried the Lapensee classifications of HD polyfoam I didn’t really get an adequate answer but that might just be my lack of knowledge. I even went over to the factory and took a tour with the son of the owner – very nice man and very proud of the family business which has been in operation since the early 1900’s. We had a fun conversation but I left still unclear about HD vs HR.

So here I am – dazed and confused – wondering whether I should simply bite the bullet and buy locally from the only choice I have. Or go elsewhere. But where? The closest manufacturer outside of Ottawa that I can find is Factory Mattress in Pickering (also very nice people). MU recommends this company in the Toronto listings. But it would be $350 to deliver and a 4 hour drive (one way)!

What to do?

Hi rickwall,

I can see you’ve been doing some reading and hopefully I can simplify things a bit.

I’m guessing you’ve read this but just in case the tutorial post here has a series of 5 steps that can help make your search much simpler. I would guess you have done step one and two (reading some of the basics and knowing what to avoid) and are part way through step 3 (identifying stores or manufacturers that are transparent) and step 4 (mattress testing to narrow your choice down to one at each store you visit). The tutorial post also has some mattress testing guidelines that can greatly increase your odds of making the most suitable choice for your body type and sleeping positions.

The minimum guideline I would suggest for polyfoam is 1.8 lbs in a one sided mattress and 1.5 lb in a two sided mattress although higher densities would be more durable yet. These would both be HD (high density).

HR polyfoam is higher quality yet and is made with a different chemical formulation that has a higher compression modulus and is more resilient than HD foam. If the density is 2.5 lbs or higher (and has a compression modulus of 2.4 and 60% resiliency) then it would be actual HR polyfoam. If it has a higher compression modulus and resilience than HD foam but but is less than 2.5 lb density then it would normally be called a “high performance” or a “high comfort” foam. These types of polyfoam have many of the properties of latex.

Overall though the foam densities in all the mattresses you are considering are good quality. 2.0 lb polyfoam is a good quality material and 3.0 lb polyfoam is a very high quality material (often formulated to rival many of the properties of latex) and I would have no issues with the durability of any of them. There are no weak link in any of these mattresses so I would choose based on your budget and on which one is the best match in terms of PPP. This thread and this thread both have more comments about some of the options at Matelas Lapensee that may also be helpful.

There are also a few other options in the Ottawa area that are included in the Ottawa list in post #2 and #3 here (I just added 7th heaven Futon and Ikea) so you have a few more options that you can use to narrow down your “finalists” (one at each store you visit). I would either check the website of each one first or call them to make sure that they have mattresses you are interested in trying that are in your budget range.

You have some very good options in the area so you shouldn’t need to drive anywhere else and once you’ve narrowed down your finalists your final choices will all be between “good and good” which means that there won’t be any “mistakes” in terms of quality and durability and your best option would depend on your own preferences, budget, and the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

One step at a time :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hi rickwall,

You’ve got obasan.ca in Ottawa. They do some higher end natural dunlop latex mattresses.

Also, there’s a chain in Quebec that carries a fleet of green sleep… They may be close by. That’s also a higher end dunlop latex mattress.

Edit, I see one of Phoenix’s links already has obasan.

Hey Phoenix - Thanks for all the information – it has helped.

I don’t know how I missed the Matelas Dauphin manufacturer in Gatineau but I did finally manage to visit the shop yesterday. The sales person Josie was very helpful. After an hour of testing we decided that the “Noblesse” was the best choice. Here are the details for the one-sided king mattress:

  • Top – made of convoluted soya foam, about 1" and tufted .
  • 1.5" of Velva HR foam (3lbs)
  • 1" layer of high density polyfoam (2.5) – firmer than next layer below
  • 0.5" of high density polyfoam (2.5?)
  • layer of Flexel Foam (about .75") separating coils below
  • 6" of pocket coils – 14.5 gauge.
    Cost is $2134 (tax included)

I checked out the Velva HR foam and the Flexel Foam online and both appear to be quality products.

Compared to the choice from Lapensee, listed in my first post, I am a wee bit concerned that the coils are only 14.5 gauge. Regarding the 1.5" Velva (3 lb) comfort layer, I noted that elsewhere you have suggested that HR foam of this quality is similar in characteristics to Talalay foam. Pricewise the mattress is a few hundred dollars less than a comparable one at Lapensee.

I did try mattresses at this store that had Talalay latex in the comfort layer but found the construction was too soft. I wondered what thickness and weight I would need to replace the Velva layer above. For some reason I am hung up on Talalay latex!

Regarding the other manufacturers suggested in your post: futons are not an option; and we have an Ikea mattress in the spare room (only adequate IMO). Hardy Mattress is an option but this store offers only Dunlop latex.

I would very much appreciate your opinion on two questions:

  1. Does the quality of this mattress compare to the “Elegance” model from Lapensee, mentioned in the first post (“Elegance” - $2199 – 2" of quilt of 2 lb. HD foam / 2" of 4 lb. HD foam)?

  2. Does it make sense to replace the 2" of 4 lb. HD foam in the “Elegance” model with an equivalent Talalay layer?

EDIT - Just back from Hardy Mattress - definitely a place to go if you want homemade memory foam. Only one spring mattress to try - sort of a build-your-own kind of place but with very little expert direction.

Hi rickwall,

There are no obvious weak links in the mattress and there is only a inch of “unknown density” foam in the quilting layer and it’s tufted which increases durability so from a quality/durability point of view I would have no concerns with this. The coils are not normally the weak link of a mattress. Some HR polyfoam has specs that can approach the properties of latex yes.

All the layers of a mattress affect every other layer and the “feel” and performance of a mattress as a whole so you would need to decide this based on your own personal testing because the layers are too complex and there is not enough information available about the “comfort specs” of the polyfoam layers to even guess. As a “best guess” you may be able to approximate the Velva layer with a layer of Talalay that was the same thickness and an equivalent ILD (keeping in mind that polyfoam ILD is not measured in the same way as latex so the same ILD would not be equivalent). You could use an ILD for Talalay that was in the range of 20% or so higher as a very rough guideline but even here some of the other specs that affect the feel and softness of a foam material aren’t available.

Futon7 carries some Talalay latex mattresses as well as futons.

I’m not sure which Ikea mattress you have but they do have one better quality Dunlop latex mattress (and many mattresses that I wouldn’t consider).

They are not apples to apples comparisons because of the differences in the layering so it’s not possible to make a direct or exact comparison because the mix of the layers are different densities and positions in the mattress but neither have any obvious weak links so durability wouldn’t be a significant concern with either. They would be “roughly” comparable but it would also depend on the person on the mattress, how much “room” there would be for foam softening that was still in the range of PPP for a particular person (see post #2 here), and the specs of the foam layers themselves that aren’t disclosed (such as the ILD and compression modulus) and which wouldn’t be available.

This would be a preference issue and I would decide based on how each one compared in terms of PPP. If you aren’t able to test the Talalay version then it would be “risky” to replace it because it would change the feel and performance of the mattress in terms of PPP. If you can test both I would choose the one that was the best “match” in terms of PPP. I personally wouldn’t “fiddle” with a mattress that was already a good match for you unless you had very high confidence that the change would be at least as good or an improvement.

Phoenix