I just tried a Sleeptek Euro1 Latex mattress in the firm level and loved it. But didn’t love so much the price (King $3156 plus tax).
I am trying to recapitulate this experience as closely as possible using the support layer from my Bedinabox pacbed original mattress (6 inches of 2.4 lb/32 ILD with the 3 inch comfort layer removed) in place of the 6-inch firm 100% natural Dunlop continuous pour support layer of the Euro 1. (I know! I almost cringe from embarrassment just asking this question but a savings of approximately $2500+ makes it worth a try to me.)
To make this task even more challenging, I am looking at the 3 inch Dunlop topper from Brooklyn Bedding. (I am thinking maybe the soft or medium?) In case this thread does not start after my previous ones, I am a 6’ 190 lb male, predominantly side sleeper but I often start out on my back.
I am not sure of the accuracy or relevance of these specs but from the description of the Sueno Suerte Natural Rubber Mattress, which I somehow think is the same mattress (they seem to be the same construction and they are exactly the same price), it has a 6 inch core of medium (32-35 ILD) OR firm (38-42 ILD) natural rubber on the bottom with a 2 inch layer of soft (22-24 ILD) natural rubber on the top.
Again, I know this is somewhat like comparing apples and roller skates but for the price savings I am compelled to try. The 6 inch support layer of my Bedinabox is only about 3 years old and in good shape. I was impressed with the less bouncy experience with the Euro 1, and both my wife and me preferred this one to all the other Sleeptek Euros and Savvy Rest we tried.
Any ideas, alternate topper suggestions, insights, etc. would be very welcome.
I’m not sure if this is more like comparing apples to roller skates or turning a sows ear into a silk purse but I do have a few thoughts that may be helpful.
Polyfoam ILD is tested on a 4" layer to 25% compression and latex is tested for ILD on a 6" layer to 25% compression (occasionally 40% compression but I don’t believe this is the case here) so it would be reasonable to think that based on ILD alone that you would need to add about 20% or so to the ILD of polyfoam to get the rough equivalent in latex (which would make the 32 ILD polyfoam about 38 ILD in latex give or take a few in either direction and bearing in mind that there really isn’t a formula to convert them).
Assuming that these specs are accurate for the mattress you tested … then either one could be close to the ILD of your BIAB base layer however there are some other specs that make latex different from polyfoam.
One of these is compression modulus which is the speed that a material gets firmer as you compress it more deeply. Dunlop has a higher compression modulus than polyfoam which means that in an equivalent ILD … it would start off softer, the two materials would equal out at 25% compression (if they were the same ILD based on the same type of ILD testing), and with deeper compression beyond that the latex would become firmer than the polyfoam. Again this isn’t completely accurate but only an approximation.
Another difference is that latex is more “point elastic” and not as “stiff” as polyfoam so with a thinner comfort layer on top of it a latex base layer would be more conforming to the body shape of the person on the mattress which can also “help” the comfort layers with pressure relief more than a “stiffer” polyfoam base layer that is less conforming.
Since the SleepTek had a 2 inch comfort layer of “soft” Dunlop … there are really 2 approaches you could take to try and come as close as possible (again assuming that the specs you listed are accurate).
The first would be to start off with a 3" comfort layer of soft Dunlop so that the extra inch compared to the SleepTek can help make up for the difference in the feel and performance of the different base layers.
The second approach would be to start off with a 2" comfort layer of soft Dunlop (which may be too firm because more of the firmness of the polyfoam base layer could “come through”) and then use your sleeping experience to decide on whether to add any additional comfort layers on top (say another inch or two).
If I had to guess … I would say the 3" of soft Dunlop would probably be a little closer but this may also be a little more risky than a thinner topper that still left you some “room” to add more layers to further customize your mattress.
Of course I would make sure you keep in mind that this is all very experimental and at the stroke of midnight … your silk purse may turn into a pumpkin
That helps a great deal. Just to complicate matters I am allergic to wool and despite assurances from the owner of the store where I tested the mattresses that the way the cover is constructed, plus adding a waterproof (though breathable) mattress pad and sheets should “protect” me from the wool I am very hesitant.
I realize that the cover is also an important part of the equation. We liked the non springy nature of our experience with the cover that comes with the bed and would like to maintain that with a cover that did not have wool.
The guys at Brooklyn Bedding suggested a cover with an inch of polyfoam as an alternative to the wool. I am not so enthusiastic about the polyfoam since I was looking at latex for its use of less nasty chemicals and I would really be sleeping on the polyfoam.
So my questions are:
Based on feedback from forum members and any other sources, would the wool have a good chance of working its way through the layers and eventually getting to me?
Can you suggest a cover that would not have wool or foam that might work as closely as possible to the one they have on the mattress which they say is GOTS certified organic wool from Argentina is quilted inside the organic cotton cover? It does not HAVE to be organic but it would be nice.
Again, we would like the cover to maintain the non-springy experience as much as possible.
Also, just to refresh my memory, What are the differences between the natural dunlop and natural talalay toppers in the soft ILD range? Does it make a difference if they are 2 or 3 inch? At those ILDs and thicknesses is htere a difference between continuous pour and molded dunlop?
Wool allergies are generally contact allergies and most people would be fine with wool quilted in a cover. The supplier of a cover may be able to provide you with a sample that you can wear for a day or so against your skin to see how you do with it (see post #2 here).
Other quilting materials won’t feel or perform like wool but there is more about quilting materials in post #12 here that may be helpful.
I would say “probably not”.
No … I don’t know of another quilting material that would feel or perform like wool (and there are many different types of wool quilted covers that would also be different from each other in terms of the fabric used on the surface or the backing, the amount and density of the wool, the breed of wool that was used, and any other materials that are in the cover so even comparing one wool cover to another can be very difficult).
I totally get that. Ok, I have slightly switched gears and admit that the whole project very easily could turn into a pumpkin. So now I am willing to play it more by the book and use a real mattress (ISleep EZ 9000 from SleepEZ) to try to recreate the Sleeptek Euro I experience.
Both are 100% natural Dunlop. Both have a quilted wool cover over a 2-inch soft layer and a 6-inch core (I like the firm). Sleeptek says their soft layer is 20-22 ILD and SleepEZ says theirs is 22-24. Sleeptek says their firm 6-inch support core is 38-42 ILD. SleepEZ says theirs is 38-40. However, Sleeptek’s core is one 6-inch layer and SleepEZ’s core is two 3-inch layers.
I realize precision is impossible when it comes to Dunlop but I also know that one 6-inch layer feels different from (firmer than?) two 3-inch layers of the same ILD. So, my question is, what configuration of the SleepEZ 9000 is my best shot at coming close to recreating the feel and pressure relief and support of the Sleeptek Euro I?
With the SleepEZ 9000 I could get two 3-inch thick firm layers (38-40) or one 3-inch firm layer on top of one 3-inch extra firm layer (44 ILD) which might make up for the softer feel of having 2 3-inch layers instead of one 6-inch. But I am more than open to other ideas.
A difference of 2 or 3 ILD is really insignificant and it’s unlikely that anyone would feel this. It’s also less than the natural variation of ILD across the surface of a latex layer which can very more than that anyway.
I also doubt that you would feel any difference between two 3" layers where both of the layers were in the same ILD range as a single 6" layer and they were both underneath a 2" comfort layer because the bottom layer wouldn’t be compressing very much. Having two 3" layers would also give you the ability to either flip each layer or reverse their position to do some fine tuning based on any difference between the layers or between the top and bottom of the layers. I think the layering you mentioned (F/F/S) would be as close as you could come.
I think that the F/F/S would probably be the closest but the difference between a 38 - 40 firm bottom layer and a 44 XF bottom layer wouldn’t be very much and many people wouldn’t feel this either. The difference between them would be more noticeable if you used the XF under the 2" comfort layer with the 38 - 40 underneath that on the bottom but again a difference of only 4 ILD wouldn’t be very noticeable in deeper layers.
Thanks Phoenix!
In digging a little deeper I saw that there is a difference in the mattress cover. There seems to be much more wool in a continuously thicker layer in the Sleeptek cover. IS this a difference I am likely to notice?
(Sorry about the links. I still can’t figure out how to get the photos in.)
Also, will the wool in both mattresses compress over time and change the feel of the mattress? If so, how long (I know varies and depends but maybe ballpark/range?) might it take to do this?
The other factor here is potential problem with the wool (allergy). If it turns out I have to swap the SleepEZ wool cover for their 4 Way Stretch Non Quilted Zipper Cover https://www.sleepez.com/mattresscomponents.htm
will I notice much difference, especially if compared to the Sleeptek wool cover, and if so, is there a way to compensate for this?
Pictures can sometimes be deceptive but you could always ask them how many oz/yd of wool are in their covers. Both the materials and the quilting in the covers can certainly make a difference in the feel and performance of a mattress. I don’t have any personal experience with either of them so I don’t know how they may be different.
The wool would already be densified so it would compress a little but not a lot. Wool typically compresses by about 30% or so but as you sleep on it more any compression will tend to even out. By the end of the first 90 days or so you would probably see some minimal impressions. As wool compresses it would become a little firmer.
You would probably notice a difference yes. The wool performs several functions including temperature regulation and the feel of the mattress so it would depend on what you were trying to compensate for. If you were to use a stretch knit cover then I would use your experience on the mattress as the guideline for any fine tuning you may need (using a mattress pad or protector etc) because it would be too complex to try and duplicate another specific product exactly and it would be an approximation at best because wool is wool and other materials aren’t the same. The closest would be other types of natural fibers. Synthetic fibers would feel different from wool, would be less temperature regulating, and less durable.
