Just wondering if you have any info/opinions regarding the Renelle Viscoform 6800 mattress with the 1" latex layer on top. Is this a good option for someone who wants to try a memory foam but doesn’t want that “sinking” feeling? Here’s the breakdown…1" latex, 3.5" 5lb cool comfort memory foam, 0.375" 1.5lb airflow layer, 7.625" 2lb high density core, edge support, biofoam. Both my husband and I are side sleepers, he is 6’1", 195lbs and I am 5’3", 115lbs. I am a very hot sleeper and therefore think I should avoid straight memory foam. thank you
Hi tired eyes,
I like what Renelle is doing with their designs and when I talked with them some time ago I was also impressed with their openness and helpfulness and with the quality of the materials they were using in their budget range. They are certainly a good value choice IMO. At the time they were also working on a latex line but they haven’t released it yet (at least according to their website).
In terms of the Viscoform 6800 mattress … I am personally a fan of a latex over memory foam construction. It slows down and reduces the sinking in of the memory foam and is also cooler because the more breathable latex is closest to your body. The 5 lb Cool Comfort memory foam is also very breathable and cooler than most other memory foams, faster reacting than other 5 lb memory foams, and high quality. The airflow layer is very thin and is mainly meant to promote airflow so the fact that it is deeper in the mattress and is so thin mostly negates it’s lower density. The polyfoam used in the support layer is high quality.
I think that this would work particularly well for your husband because of his greater weight. He will tend to sink more deeply into the mattress and come to rest more on the support layers below and it will give his shoulders plenty of thickness to sink in enough (which is the issue with most men who tend to have broader shoulders than women. Because he will be resting more on the support layers … he is more likely to be in a stable alignment over the course of the night.
On the other hand … there is almost 5" of softer foam on the top of this mattress which means that for someone who was lighter like yourself … it may feel very good, give you good pressure relief (as long as the latex was soft enough) and give you good alignment initially. Because you will be more resting on the memory foam though rather than the support layers underneath … there is a risk that the tendency of memory foam to allow more sinking over the course of the night may lead to you being out of alignment and your hips sinking in too far by the morning (women have broader and heavier hips than men and the challenge is normally to “stop” the hips rather than “allow” the shoulders). While only personal testing can tell this for sure (you should lay on this mattress for some time to test for your alignment), it seems to me that the comfort layers may be a little on the thick side.
This doesn’t mean that this will definitely be the case as it will depend to some degree on your weight distribution and body shape … only that I would pay particular attention to this possibility with this particular model.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix. Thanks for your last reply. Since there are no Renelle 6800 mattresses available close to me to lay on, I took a pass on that particular mattress. I did however end up purchasing a Latex mattress from The Mattress & Sleep Company in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. We layed on, fell in love with, and purchased the TMASC house brand The Ocho 8" Natural Rubber Latex Queen set for $2607.14 + tax =$2737.50. It has 6" of 100% natural rubber core, medium density(ILD 32-35) , 2" of 100% soft natural rubber(ILD unknown), natural wool quilting 350g/sq m. We also bought a Dormeir wool mattress protector. After getting it home and sleeping on it the first night it felt quite a bit firmer than the one in the showroom. Three nights in my husband(6’1"-195lbs-side sleeper) and myself(5’3"-115lbs-side sleeper) were both waking up in the morning with numbness and pressure point pain. It’s 10 days in now and its no better. I talked to TMASC and they suggested the quilting might have to loosen up a bit and to maybe consider a wool topper. The topper I am looking at is $410.00 and called Natura Classic Super Comfort Plus 2440g/sq m. I’m not sure of it’s thickness but it looks a little thicker than the one labeled 2.5in I guess my question is do you think the topper will help? And where did I go wrong? I’ve read this forum front to back and thought I knew what to look for. My best guess is the 2" comfort layer isn’t thick enough and we are sinking to the firmer core. Or is the quilting and wool protector restricting the latex from doing what it needs to do? Thank you in advance, I really respect your opinion.
Hi tired eyes,
The Mattress and Sleep company is a quality outlet that sells premium mattresses (at premium prices) and is run by a family that I think very highly of. Their strength is not so much in the “value” of their mattresses but in the exceptional knowledge and service they provide to their customers. Daniel who I have talked with on many occasions is one of the more knowledgeable “mattress people” that I know.
The Dunlop comfort layer is likely in the mid 20’s and because both the comfort layer and the support layer is Dunlop (which gets firmer faster than Talalay) … and because it is only a 2" comfort layer … it is not so surprising that it may be a little on the firm side for an “average” side sleeper. Speaking in terms of “averages” … typically a side sleeper needs about a 3-4" comfort zone depending on weight and shape (and this “zone” can be an actual comfort layer or a comfort layer with a softer layer underneath to “add” to the effective thickness). Because he is heavier … he may be on the thicker side of this range and because you are lighter you may be on the thinner side of this range. People who are much lighter than the “norm” would typically need softer foam as well although there are quite a few who are much lighter (and “straighter” or less curvy in their profile) who also do well on firmer than “normal” foam because their weight and less curvy shape makes pressure issues less likely … although you may not be one of these it seems.
So it appears that the depth of your pressure relieving cradle may not be quite enough to spread the pressure over the surface of your bodies and relieve the pressure on your pressure points. I’m not sure though if this is just a shoulder issue or if it is both a shoulder and hip issue.
Some thoughts about your next step …
I’m assuming that the base your mattress is on is the same base that was used when you tested it in the store. If it’s different … then this could make a difference.
The ticking/quilting appears to be a jersey knit which would be fairly stretchy and has about 10.3 oz /sq yd of wool which is fairly thin so while this may stretch a bit more, it likely won’t stretch too much more than it already does.
The Dormeir is also a thin stretchy wool protector so it too won’t likely stretch or change too much more than it already has either.
Bear in mind that this mattress is quite possibly quite a bit firmer than you were used to (depending on the mattress you had before) so adjusting to a new mattress that represents a bigger change can sometimes take a few weeks.
Wool can help to cushion the pressure points when it is used over firmer latex but instead of spreading the pressure over a larger surface of your body like a deeper cradle would do … it will more “cushion” the pressure points and spread the pressure over a larger surface of your shoulders and hips which may or may not be “enough” to even out the pressure depending on how much more pressure relief you need. Bear in mind too that while a thicker wool pad is a much more resilient fiber than say cotton and provides a very nice microclimate and temperature control … it will compress and get firmer over time more than a foam topper.
The “good” news is that it’s always easier to adjust a mattress that is too firm than adjust a mattress that is too soft. Depending on whether it seems like a lot too firm and “heavy” pressure points or whether it seems “close” but just a little too firm … you may be better served with a softer topper … say about 2" … using softer talalay latex or memory foam depending on your preference. Because you mentioned earlier that you were a “hot” sleeper … talalay latex would be a cooler choice and if you went with memory foam on the top it should definitely be a cooler variety. The dormier could be used over either and would add to the breathability and “coolness” of both.
So overall … I would give it a little longer if you can before deciding on what to spend that much money on to add to the mattress. If you can give an idea of how “close” you think the pressure relief is and whether the pressure points are in both the hip and shoulder area … this may also make a difference.
If I’ve missed anything … let me know.
Phoenix
Hi tired eyes,
The Mattress and Sleep company is a quality outlet that sells premium mattresses (at premium prices) and is run by a family that I think very highly of. Their strength is not so much in the “value” of their mattresses (which are all very high quality) but in the exceptional knowledge and service they provide to their customers. Daniel who I have talked with on many occasions is one of the more knowledgeable “mattress people” that I know.
The Dunlop comfort layer is likely in the mid 20’s and because both the comfort layer and the support layer is Dunlop (which gets firmer faster than Talalay) … and because it is only a 2" comfort layer … it is not so surprising that it may be a little on the firm side for an “average” side sleeper. Speaking in terms of “averages” … typically a side sleeper needs about a 3-4" comfort zone depending on weight and shape (and this “zone” can be an actual comfort layer or a comfort layer with a softer layer underneath to “add” to the effective thickness). Because he is heavier … he may be on the thicker side of this range and because you are lighter you may be on the thinner side of this range. People who are much lighter than the “norm” would typically need softer foam as well although there are quite a few who are much lighter (and “straighter” or less curvy in their profile) who also do well on firmer than “normal” foam because their weight and less curvy shape makes pressure issues less likely … although you may not be one of these it seems.
So it appears that the depth of your pressure relieving cradle may not be quite enough to spread the pressure over the surface of your bodies and relieve the pressure on your pressure points. I’m not sure though if this is just a shoulder issue or if it is both a shoulder and hip issue.
Some thoughts about your next step …
I’m assuming that the base your mattress is on is the same base that was used when you tested it in the store. If it’s different … then this could make a difference.
The ticking/quilting appears to be a jersey knit which would be fairly stretchy and has about 10.3 oz /sq yd of wool which is fairly thin so while this may stretch a bit more, it likely won’t stretch too much more than it already does.
The Dormeir is also a thin stretchy wool protector so it too won’t likely stretch or change too much more than it already has either.
Bear in mind that this mattress is quite possibly quite a bit firmer than you were used to (depending on the mattress you had before) so adjusting to a new mattress that represents a bigger change can sometimes take a few weeks.
Wool can help to cushion the pressure points when it is used over firmer latex but instead of spreading the pressure over a larger surface of your body like a deeper cradle would do … it will more “cushion” the pressure points and spread the pressure over a larger surface of your shoulders and hips which may or may not be “enough” to even out the pressure depending on how much more pressure relief you need. Bear in mind too that while a thicker wool pad is a much more resilient fiber than say cotton and provides a very nice microclimate and temperature control … it will compress and get firmer over time more than a foam topper.
The “good” news is that it’s always easier to adjust a mattress that is too firm than adjust a mattress that is too soft. Depending on whether it seems like a lot too firm and “heavy” pressure points or whether it seems “close” but just a little too firm … you may be better served with a softer topper … say about 2" … using softer talalay latex or memory foam depending on your preference. Because you mentioned earlier that you were a “hot” sleeper … talalay latex would be a cooler choice and if you went with memory foam on the top it should definitely be a cooler variety. The dormier could be used over either and would add to the breathability and “coolness” of both.
So overall … I would give it a little longer if you can before deciding on what to spend that much money on to add to the mattress. If you can give an idea of how “close” you think the pressure relief is and whether the pressure points are in both the hip and shoulder area … this may also make a difference.
If I’ve missed anything … let me know.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
The firmness of the mattress is close, but just a little too firm. I did not realize the 2" comfort layer was dunlop. Daniel probably mentioned it but we looked at a lot of beds that day and I don’t think my brain could keep all the facts straight. Our base is the same as what the store mattress was on. The pressure is a shoulder and hip issue. We’ve decided to go ahead and order a topper from Sears canada and wonder if you know the specs on the one I’m looking at now. It’s the Novopure Natural Latex Topper- all natural latex, 2" thick. I can’t find if it is talalay though nor what ILD it is. And when you say I should be looking for a “softer talalay latex”, what ILD would that be?
Thanks
Hi tired eyes,
The “best” choice of topper would depend on how far away from optimal pressure relief you believe you are. You could add a layer of wool … a 1" topper … or a 2" topper which would be the rough order of “extra softness” and pressure relief. Bear in mind too that the thicker layer there is on top … the more potential there is to affect your alignment although with latex … and especially with Dunlop as the majority of the latex … this is not as likely to be an issue. I generally recommend the thinnest comfort layer that would do the job.
Latex toppers that don’t say otherwise will generally be Dunlop latex. Dunlop is usually made to certain densities which are then “translated” into ILD approximations. The typical pincore Dunlop will usually be in the mid 20’s for soft. There are a couple of Dunlop toppers that are softer that are made through a variation of the Dunlop process (poured in thinner layers on a belt without pincores) and then the holes are sometimes added afterwards rather than a mold which always has pincores. These are made in lower densities and can go as low as the high teens but they will also be firmer than the same ILD in Talalay because like all Dunlop they “firm up” faster as you sink into it.
“Softer” talalay is somewhat relative to the weight of the person on it but I generally mean in the range of 19 - 24 which is the “norm” for most people with “average” preferences. Because thickness also plays a role in how soft a comfort layer is though … even an extra 2" of soft dunlop (for a total of 4" in the comfort layer) will be softer than the 2" you have now.
The Novopure 2" topper is made by Restwell in Vancouver and they would likely give you details about the Novopure topper (in either density or the approximate ILD connected with that density).
There is also a 2" 19 ILD Talalay topper made by Natura here but it doesn’t have a cover which is important for long term durability of latex.
An alternative would be to order something like this from the US which even after shipping, tax, and duty would likely end up less (but you would also need a cover).
My tendency would be to go a little firmer if you were adding 2" (to make up for the extra thickness) so closer to the 24 end of the range than 19. If you go with a thinner 1" talalay topper (which are far more difficult to find at a reasonable cost) … then 19 would be fine.
So I know that this has just given you a range of options but I would choose based on how far away from “optimal” you believe you are.
Phoenix