Requesting mattress help in south florida

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
39

Wow, thanks for going into detail like that. You didn’t have to do that for me. You couldve just told me that I’m crazy and to go buy the bed and I wouldve been fine with that too haha.

First, about my back pain- the reason I started this whole mattress journey was because I was waking up everyday with constant back pain when usually it’s not really everyday or if it is, exercises, heat, advil, etc will help. I mean there’s always some kind of pain there but it hasn’t been this bad since I first injured it a few years ago. So when I went to the first manufacturer my back was worse and then I went to biscayne(nature’s rest) 5 days later, and I had taken one of my two toppers off my bed and that helped too, so my back pain was already less when I tested the nature’s rest. But yes I agree with you that the back pain before was from trying out a bunch of different combinations, but it was also on top of the back pain I already had. So when laying on the nature’s rest, it didn’t add to the back pain but it didn’t take it away either.

Oh and I just wanted to mention that the west palm isn’t a candidate. It’s more expensive and she even told me to go back to biscayne because it’s cheaper. So my only option is the nature’s rest, unless I ask to see a different combination.

With the PLB, it’s not that I liked the nature’s rest better, I think it felt kind of the same. I didn’t spend enough time laying on it to really get a good feel and I felt uncomfortable staying there for a long time because the salesman knew I wasnt buying anything and was annoyed that I “knew” more than him lol. I think it did feel a little softer and then firmer than the nature’s rest but I didn’t lay on it long enough to say which I preferred. It actually felt kind of similar to the icomfort though I don’t know why.

At west palm, I meant too much thickness. I tried 3" of 24 over 6" of 32. Did I write 3" of 28? That was a mistake then. I didn’t like the thickness of it because I felt like I was sinking in too much but I don’t know if that was because it’s a topper or what. Laying on it after I while I felt discomfort. Not really pain necessarily but my back did hurt after and I didn’t feel like it was holding me up enough. That’s why I asked if maybe 2" might be better and then maybe I wouldnt be sinking in as much.

I orginally thought the nature’s rest might be too soft because when laying on my side I was sinking in a bit. I know that it’s normal, but I thought that it would eventually cause me pain or not be supportive enough if it was soft. I was equating that with how memory foam sinks in and how that caused me pain and thinking that softness=not supportive but now I know that’s not true.

Yeah I agree, I’m not considering the CSD. That just confused me even more.

To answer the other questions:

Does the nature’s rest provide good pressure relief in my shoulders? I didn’t even test for this. My neck is messed up anyway and this whole time I’ve just been focused on making sure my back feels good which is what is most important to me. I can test that out tomorrow.

Is there good pressure relief for my hips when laying on my hips/side? I don’t know. That’s the problem. I can say that it doesn’t add to the pain or cause extra pain.

Is there good support on my back? Same answer. When I eliminated other mattresses it was because when laying on my back it hurt right away. With this it didnt, but the pain didn’t completely go away either.

Yes, I can connect back pain to when I sleep on my mattress, other mattresses, etc. If it’s hard or uncomfortable I can tell right away and won’t be able to sleep and it’ll hurt even worse in the morning. I’ll also feel pain when I’m more active, poor shoe support, etc. I can tell the difference in my back pain and which thing causes it if that makes any sense.

Yes, when laying on my cousin’s mattress the pain goes away every time. It’s crazy. She lives in ny, so when I go to visit her my back pain is gone the whole time I’m there. If I’m walking a lot, which is different than what I’m used to living in florida, the pain will come back but nowhere near as bad, and if I lay down for a few minutes after that I’m fine.

I already answered this question at the top but I’ll just add to it. Yes, I had back pain before I walked into the stores. With the mattresses that I eliminated the back pain would get worse immediately.

I hope I answered all of your questions. Now that I’ve read your comments I’m starting to think maybe I was confused and what I thought was too soft maybe wasnt soft enough? But I don’t think that’s right because the PLB has 2" of 19 but also got firmer faster. So maybe not. I don’t know, I’m even more confused now lol.

Thanks again for your help. I really do appreciate it.

40

Hi beth819,

I think the picture is starting to get a little clearer … at least for me :slight_smile:

Sometimes it’s difficult to connect all the dots with the limitations of words on a forum trying to express a much bigger picture. It’s a little like looking at a few parts of a painting and not knowing exactly what the missing parts are and what the whole painting looks like when everything is connected.

If you were a pure back sleeper … I would definitely be suggesting you consider only 2" of latex in the comfort layer to keep you closer to the support layers and better alignment but being a combination sleeper … that would carry the risk that it wouldn’t be thick enough to relieve pressure on your hips and especially your shoulders when you were on your side. It could also result in your hips sinking in far enough but your shoulders being “held up” too high which could also lead to twisting and misalignment of the spine. If a mattress is too firm on top … then it’s common to twist the body to compensate and twisting of the spine is also a form of misalignment which can lead to pain.

Having said all that … it’s clear to me that your alignment is a primary issue with your back and this would be especially important when sleeping on your back. If you were to go with a 2" comfort layer … then if it wasn’t thick/soft enough you would still have the option of adding a thin topper to add some pressure relief as needed.

My “gut” still says that the way it is has the best odds of working well with the 3" comfort layer (1’ 19 and 2" 24) over the extra firm support layer but if you are concerned and your testing gives you reason to suspect that this really is too thick and your pelvis is sinking down too far on your back, then the thinner layer is an option that could be adjusted after you have tried it for a while.

I’d sure like to know the construction of your cousin’s mattress … it would make a good model of something that you know works well! Maybe she can find out the model and let you know (it should be on the law tag).

Phoenix

41

Hi Phoenix,

Good! I’m glad one of us is clearer haha. I’m still confused :blink: I’m pretty much a side sleeper, with only ocassionally on my back when I can’t take the pain anymore on my left side, and even then I end up going back on my side. But I am in my bed a lot on my back, whether that’s watching tv, on my laptop, on the phone, etc. But sleeping wise, I’d say that if there was no back pain I’d be a pure side sleeper. Don’t know if that makes a difference, but I know I didn’t describe that before so I’m adding it now.

Also, when I test these mattresses, I always start by laying on my back because I can tell right away if it causes me pain. They always tell me to turn on my side since that’s how I sleep, but I take the time first to lay on my back and then switch.

He told me that he could take the 1" of 19 off and just do 24 and 36, and the only reason he adds the 19 is to give the bit of softness and pressure relief. But I think I’d rather go with the 19 because now I’m worried this isnt soft enough instead of it being too soft. Am I crazy?

I know!!! I wish I knew what was in her mattress too. I do know the name of the model, it’s King Koil, Aruba. I’ve been searching online for a couple years now of who has it, or at least to find out what’s in it, and I can’t find anything. Last year I called king koil, got the number for the distributor and sales guy here and he told me they don’t make it anymore but that they were coming out with something similiar soon. I kept calling and it kept getting delayed because of the fire blocker stuff I think, and it was going to be called Contour Response by Comfort Solutions. So this time around I called the stores he told me it would be in, and no one has it. I also looked it up online and don’t see anything for it. I saw something with the name, but it has coils in it. When I told you in an earlier post what was in her mattress, that was from her reading me the law tag. She first bought the bed because she has a back problem as well, and tested a bunch of beds and finally decided on it and bought from 1800mattress. Before I ever layed on it she would always tell me how obsessed she was with her bed and everytime she sleeps somewhere else she says how much she misses her bed. I always thought she was nuts, until I layed on it. I wanted her to sell me hers and she could go buy a new one, but obviously not. She doesn’t know what she’s going to do when she needs a new one since they don’t make it anymore.

42

Hi beth819,

I had an interesting conversation today with Blue Bell Mattress Company who is the licensee that makes the Natural Elegance line. I told them I was helping someone with back issues who had a relative with the old Aruba model which was “perfect” and asked them if they could tell me the specs. She said flatly NO … she will have to re-select (meaning try all their new mattresses to find one you like)! I then asked here if she could tell me if they had an equivalent in their current Natural Elegance line. Again she said no … she will have to re-select! I said there must be someone there who would know which was the rough equivalent or who would give the specs of an old model they don’t even make any more to help someone. Her answer again was … it was a latex mattress. I said “I know” but I was hoping to have a rough idea of the ILD and layering over the polyfoam. She then said that any one of the new models would do. When I told her that wasn’t true and that I was knowledgeable in mattress design … she asked me what company I worked for. I said that it was just private venture but I wanted to help someone … she said again that she will have to reselect … have a nice day sir … and hung up on me :).

It’s also interesting to me that Blue Bell were also the ones that tried to “steal” the name of this website when I first mentioned the name “The Mattress Underground” in a fictional story on another forum.

I’'m sharing this to give an idea of the difference between major brands and smaller manufacturers who actually want people to have this information. I have had dealings with Blue Bell before and IMO … they are one of the “worst” in terms of their company culture.

In any case … we know that the Aruba had a polyfoam base (some of their other models had a zoned dunlop base) which means that in latex terms an educated guess would be that the 36 ILD would be a very rough equivalent.

I also know that the old Natural Elegance lineup had some very soft talalay latex on top (they called it medium soft, plush, and ultra plush) but there is no way to know how much the layer thickness was and the layer ILD’s. My “guess” would be that the firmest of them were about 24 ILD and that many were softer. They also had quiltable latex along with a dacron fiber in the quilting in some.

One of them called the Paradise box Top (with the thickest comfort layer that I know of) had the following specs …

7" high density latex support core -1" Medium Soft Latex Topper -1" Medium Soft Latex Topper -2" of Ultra Plush Talalay Latex topper -1" Latex Quilting -2 oz. of dacron quilting to the surface.

Another one called the Key West had …

7" high density latex support core -1" Medium Soft Latex Topper -2 Oz of quilted layer of dacron fiber.

Another one called the Grand Bahamas had …

-7" high density latex support core with air flow -1" Medium Soft Latex Topper -1" Plush Latex Topper -1" Plush Latex Topper -2" Ultra Plush Latex Topper -Half inch quilting latex and dacron on the quilted surface.

All of these had the Dunlop latex core (Not the firm polyfoam that your cousin has) and as you can see they used a combination of layering over the support core of varying thickness and ILD’s .

My “guess” would be that medium soft is 24 ILD … Plush is 19 ILD … and Ultra Plush is 14 ILD.

So this goes to show that your 2" of 24 and an inch of 19 is on the firm end of the scale that they were using in most of their mattress comfort layers but what is completely unknown is the thickness of the upper layers in the Aruba.

Their current models use completely different layering and materials than the old ones.

So where you are is about as close as I can “guess” as to what might work for you. As you mentioned … what you have been testing (in the range of 3" of 24) is about as firm as I would go and if anything your cousin’s mattress may be a bit softer on top (although this is not known). This would put you in the range we were talking about at the beginning which is on the lower end of the “average” range of 19 - 24.

Given that you are mostly a side sleeper and that a mattress that will help you stay on your side longer would be the goal … I believe that a 3" comfort layer would be much more suitable than 2" (which would likely be too firm and lead to more back sleeping or “twisting”.

I would also make an “educated guess” that what you have (1" 19 and 2" 24) is as firm as you should go.

Phoenix

43

Hi Phoenix,

Wow, what a B! Was she purposely not helpful because she didn’t want to tell you what was in their mattresses or do you think she really doesn’t know? Thanks for trying anyway, I appreciate it!!

When you said this:

Given that you are mostly a side sleeper and that a mattress that will help you stay on your side longer would be the goal … I believe that a 3" comfort layer would be much more suitable than 2" (which would likely be too firm and lead to more back sleeping or “twisting”.

You’ve mentioned this before and I always forget to ask, the 3" comfort layer being more suitable than 2". Do you mean the 1" of 19 and the 2" of 24= 3"? I’m getting confused in thinking that 3" means just one comfort layer.

I went to biscayne today and unfortunately the guy just sold the floor sample of the one I was going to get so I couldn’t test it again. I was a bit annoyed as it’s a bit of a drive and I wish he wouldve told me before I went down there, but he apologized and I guess they are really busy rearranging the showroom because they are about to give a presentation. Anyway, I told him what you said about the inch of 19 being basically insignificant and he said absolutely and it just adds a bit of softness to relieve pressure on hips and shoulders. So he said maybe 2" of 19 on top instead of the 1" will be a little better. He didnt have that, but he showed me a 3" of 19 topper over a 2" of 24 just to test. That felt more plush, but still supportive and he said my alignment was ok, but I couldnt help but feel it was too thick. Then when I got in the car my back started hurting. Ugh. But I’m going back next week when he’ll have the bed that I like back on display and I asked if he could get another inch of 19 so I can test it both ways. He said yes. But now the problem is there’s no return or exchange policy of any kind. Only if it’s defective in some way. He said it’s because he can’t re-sell it if I return it. I said I know but some places have a comfort exchange at least and he said thats why you pay above retail for those places. But some of the other manufacturers had a comfort exchange too.

So now I don’t know what to do. If I buy either one from him I’m stuck if I don’t like it. Do people buy mattresses from manufacturers with no return/exchange policy? I’m really not comfortable with that. The only thing I can think of is are there other manufacturers that sell online or ship here that do have exchanges? Maybe since I know what I want (well, narrowed down to two maybe) it wouldn’t be so bad to order something online? I don’t know, what are your thoughts on this?

Also, the last line when you said that’s as firm as I should go, do you think I should try a different combination or like it’ll be just right. I know, I know only I can make that decision but knowing a little about my cousin’s mattress now might change some things. :woohoo:

44

Hi beth819,

They absolutely know. Like all the major manufacturers though … they don’t let consumers know as a matter of policy so that the stores that sell their mattresses can continue to sell based on vague and subjective notions of “comfort”, marketing stories that are supplied by the manufacturer, and so that meaningful comparisons with other mattresses are impossible. This is very typical for the larger manufaturers who are more loyal to the retail outlets and the profit margins they make than they are to consumers.

Yes. A “comfort layer” is the top few inches of a mattress that is mostly responsible for pressure relief and can be one or several actual layers. Perhaps “comfort zone” would be a more accurate description. Mattresses will generally have a comfort layer or layers, a support layer or layers, and sometimes a “transition” layer which is half and half (partly for pressure relief and partly for support).

I generally agree that local manufacturers shouldn’t have a return or refund policy because it would add to the cost of their mattress unnecessarily because as he says … they can’t re-sell it (ethically at least). It would generally encourage consumers to buy a mattress without enough due diligence and lead to returns based on subjective whims which would increase the price for everyone. Online dealers are a different story because a consumer doesn’t have a chance to test them first so an exchange or refund is an important issue.

Having said that … I am a big fan of a local manufacturer who offers a one time layer change or “comfort adjustment” if longer term experience on a mattress makes it clear that the initial decision wasn’t quite right. There are several ways that a mattress can be fine tuned without this (with mattress pads, protectors, bases, and toppers) but sometimes a layer exchange is the best option. While this service would also increase the cost of a mattress overall … I believe that it is a very desirable option for a manufacturer to offer. Each of them decides on their own policies though because it’s always a tradeoff between a service offered and the price of a mattress and most of them run on much tighter profit margins. From a consumer perspective … the option to make changes after a purchase from a local manufacturer and how important this is, is part of each persons “value equation”. For some it may not matter … for others it could be a factor that “kills the deal”.

There are several good online outlets that are members of this site and that specialize in shipping mattresses across the country. They are listed in post #21 here.

Of these … two of them … mattresses.net and SleepEz make a mattress which is almost identical to what you are considering. Mattresses.net has a 6" base layer with a 3" layer on top (3" needs to be requested instead of their standard 2") while SleepEz has 3 x three inch layers. The double layer can have different base ILD’s and the top is 22 ILD (which can also be ordered “non standard” if desired) while with the 3 layer mattress … all three layers can be customized in terms of ILD. One is a little lower cost and the other offers more flexibility but both offer great value and layer exchanges for a very reasonable cost if something needs to be adjusted after purchase. Because of the SleepEz 3 layer construction … you can also change the order of the layers to make adjustments without needing to exchange a layer.

In addition to this … there are a couple of other options available.

One of these is Overnight mattress which offers a polyfoam base with a 3" top layer of latex which can be chosen for any ILD (including 19 and 24). They offer a layer exchange for the top layer after purchase as well.

Dreamfoam Bedding also offers a polyfoam/latex mattress with a 3" comfort layer that can be chosen for ILD (including 19 and 24), has 1.5" of soft polyfoam quilting on top (similar to the dacron in your cousin’s mattress) and has great value but there is no refund if you make a mistake (which is part of the reason it’s so inexpensive).

I meant that IMO and based on your feedback … I wouldn’t choose a comfort layer firmer than 24 ILD in the top 3". A little softer than this would likely be fine IMO based on “averages” and your feedback but because I can’t feel what you were feeling on the mattress … your own “gut feel” is more important then any “theory at a distance”. I don’t know the layering of your cousin’s mattress so while it may have included softer latex … it’s also possible that it didn’t so I would tend to use your experiences on “known” layers as a reference point.

Phoenix

45

Hi Phoenix,

Are there people that have posted here that bought a mattress with no return policy? Is the majority happy with their decision or regret it? Just wondering.

I called mattresses.net and sleepez. Mattresses.net I was kind of confused with what the guy was telling me. He said I could either have 2" of 22 and 6" of 28 or 33, or 3" of 19 and 6" of 28. I think that’s what he said. Wouldn’t any of those be too firm? I don’t think I like 3" of one ILD, I think it’s too thick. So if I were to choose 2" of 22 wouldnt I feel the 28 more or is that even firm enough? I don’t know, it sounds confusing compared to the 3 layers I was trying before.

Same with sleepez, he said he sells a lot of 2"of 20, 3" of 30, 3" of 40. Or if I wanted to go softer he said, 2" of 20, 3" of 20, 3" of 30. How is the support core of all those only 3"? I’m confused with the ILD’s of those too compared to what I’ve tested so far. He also said he can get any ILD, but I’m not sure if that’s still going to be a 3" core or not.

Both of those are much different than what I’ve tested so far, and I’m not saying what I tested is better, I guess those combinations make more sense to me than these do because I haven’t seen them before.

I’m going to call a few more on that list tomorrow.

46

Hi beth819,

I have little idea who has bought from where or the reasons behind their decisions other than what forum members have posted here. I don’t keep any kind of records of purchases or match them to reasons why they chose what they did. I would also only use your own “value equation” because what is important to you may be not important at all for someone else and vice versa. Based on your uncertainty though along with the importance of “getting it right” for your back and your comments … I would imagine that the ability to make an adjustment after purchase would be important to you with either a local manufacturer or an online purchase. when you are talking to an online outlet … make sure you ask them exactly what is involved in a layer exchange so you are clear about how the process works and the costs involved. Each one can be different.

Bear in mind that the vast majority of people that do their homework, work with a manufacturer, and test carefully, are happy with their purchase. I would say this is over 90%. There are always exceptions though and these are usually much more visible and this is where a layer exchange or comfort adjustment can be valuable.

For the sake of simplicity … think of the top 3 layers of your mattress as the comfort “zone” regardless of how many layers it actually has. The layers below this are your support layers.

This means that one of the mattresses you tested had 24 ILD for a comfort layer. It also had 6" of 32 for a support layer.

Another one (the Nature’s Rest) had 1" of 19 and 2" of 24 (averaging about 22) for a comfort layer. It had 7" of 36 ILD as the support layer.

The PLB had 2" of 19 and 1" of 28 in the top 3 layers which averages about 22 as well. Below this it has 1" of 28 ILD … 6" of 36 ILD and then an inch of very firm latex on the bottom (probably about 40)

The common pattern here is that all of your comfort layers are about 22-24 ILD on average. This is very close to the same as the differences are slight. They do have slight differences but not a lot.

All of your mattresses also had support layers ranging from about 32 to about 36. Here too the differences are slight although the slightly different layer thicknesses and layering in the support layers would also make a difference.

Tell the online outlets the layering you liked the best (probably the Nature’s rest) and what you felt about it and what if anything you would like to change. Tell them also your height, weioght, andsleeping positions and the back issues you have.

They will make a recommendation based on the information you give them and on the testing you have done.

While there are more complex ways to get to the type of mattress you are looking for … the simplest way is to use 3" of 19 - 24 ILD talalay and then this would be over a support system with 6" of a minimum of 32 ILD or firmer.

With SleepEz … this could be 3" of about 32 and then 3" of firmer underneath it (in between the support layers of the first two with the top half the same as one and the bottom half firmer like the other). This would work out to soft over medium over firm which is their most common laering. If you wanted a little softer top layer … you could ask for it.

With the 2 layer version at mattresses.net … you would want 3" of 19 - 24 (and you could choose 3" the one that is closest to what you want) over 6" of 32 or higher.

The earlier comments talk about the advantages of each outlet and you can choose based on which is more important to you.

Again … the Top 3" is your comfort “zone” … everything below that is the support “zone”. They can both be either one of more layers. A difference of a few ILD doesn’t make a big difference and is more about fine tuning. Keep it simple :slight_smile:

Phoenix

47

Hi Phoenix,

When I talked to the two online manufacturers I did give them my weight and they still recommended what they normally sell and they both offer full refunds and exchanges…

“With SleepEz … this could be 3” of about 32 and then 3" of firmer underneath it (in between the support layers of the first two with the top half the same as one and the bottom half firmer like the other). This would work out to soft over medium over firm which is their most common laering. If you wanted a little softer top layer … you could ask for it."

Um, what? LOL. I don’t understant the parenthesis. Also, 3" of 32 on top is soft? That was way too firm for me. Unless there’s something on top of that?

With both of these places they only offer one 3" ILD and I think I preferred the 1"+2" combination or maybe the 2", but a 3" of just one ILD is too much thickness for me. Does that make sense?

I guess if I’m going to buy it online, I’d need to custom make it with the 19-24 comfort layer and 32-36 support. But before I do anything I need to go back next week and see if I like better 2" of 19, 2" of 24, 6" of 36. I was also thinking if I do decide to buy it from him, I could go with the first option and if it’s not soft enough, get a 1" 19 topper so that’s bascially the same thing, just not sown in. The problem with that is I like the feeling of everything sown in together better, and I feel like for the money I’m spending I shouldnt need to add a topper or whatever. Ugh, why is this so complicated! Lol.

48

Hi beth819,

I meant that a medium middle layer and firm bottom layer of the SleepEz would give you a support “zone” that was in between the firmness of the Biscayne (which was 32) and the Natures rest (which was 36). Of course the top layer would be 3" of 24 ILD or less in either mattress as we talked about previously.

Again … the difference between comfort zone of 1" of 19 and 2" of 24 and 3" of 24 is negligible. I would forget about having 1" of anything if I was ordering online and make the top 3" all a single ILD (which is all they have anyway). Thinking about the ILD of a single inch of latex is way too complex and technical and unimportant … keep it simple. You are getting confused I think and thinking that having an inch of 19 in the comfort layer “mix” is somehow important … it isn’t. If you go in this direction … your top 3" will all be the same ILD and you can choose what you think is best which would be in the range of 19 - 24.

Phoenix

49

Hi Phoenix,

I see what you’re saying. I guess since the nature’s rest was presented to me that way I think the 1" makes a difference since it’s supposed to add a bit of softness for the pressure points. But, out of all the single 3" ILD’s that I tried, I didn’t like the thickness, so I guess I’d have to go down to a 2" comfort layer if ordering online? Like with mattresses.net, I guess the equvalient to the nature’s rest would be 2" of 22 with 6" of 33? And with the sleepez, the 2" 20, 3"30, 3"40 just sounds weird to me because of the 6" of one ILD support core I was trying previously. But I guess what you’re trying to say is that it would probably feel about the same even though it’s not the exact same ILDs? Sorry, sometimes it takes me a few times to understand lol.

50

Hi beth819,

I believe you need a 3" comfort layer as I’ve mentioned many times in this thread. Layer thickness is just as important as layer softness and a 2" layer would be more typical for a back sleeper not a side sleeper. Of course you may be the exception but your testing and feedback indicates otherwise. I wouldn’t think about whether you like a thickness or ILD … I would think about whether you like the pressure relief and the alignment of each mattress you have tried. Trying to figure out the ILD and layer thicknesses is doing more to confuse you than help.

I believe you should describe what you have tried and tested and then each manufacturer will give you their best recommendation about what they think will be best for you if you decide to order from them. I would use the recommendation of the manufacturer you end up ordering with rather than trying to figure out what you “should” have. They are good at doing this and can tell you why they are recommending what they are but I would let them do what they are good at rather than trying to “analyze” ILD’s or layer thicknesses any further.

You have my suggestions in this thread … you will also have theirs … and then I would just decide which direction you feel is the best way for you to go.

Phoenix

51

Hi Phoenix,

Did you remove post #44? Wanted to call a few more manufacturers on the online list, but the post seems to be missing?

Thanks,
Beth

52

Hi Phoenix,

Just saw your thread about blank posts, so that answers my question lol. I gave mattress.net and sleep ez a call again. Both of them had different opnions on what would be best for me lol. Greg at mattresses.net said he’d recommend going with 2"of 21-22 and 6" of 33. I asked about the 3" topper and he said he doesn’t recommend that because he thinks it would be too soft with my back problem. He said I could go with it, but they don’t really do exchanges on the toppers, just the core. Also, if were to get the 3", its only a choice of 19 or 28 and I think I’d be better off with a 22 or maybe even a 24, but I think from everything I’ve tried a 22 seems to be what I like.

Then Sean at sleepez had the opposite opinion and said that 3" would be more pressure relieving and he recommends what he sells the majority of the time, which is 3" of 20, 3" of 30, and 3" of 40. I told him at the local manufacturer I was basically looking at a 3"22 and 6" of 36, and he’d still recommended that one. That 3" of 40 scares me since I was looking at 32-36 before. He said I can order any ILD but that it’s pretty rare to do that. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this? I’m just confused of what the equivalent is to my ideal 3"22 & 6"36, to their 3X3X3 layering.

I think I’d rather go with one of these outlets than biscayne because of the return/exchange, and it actually comes out to be cheaper (with any of the options) with the discount. So thanks for that! That’s awesome. Just a little worried that I have to assemble it myself but if I have someone help me it shouldn’t be that bad :slight_smile:

53

Hi beth819,

I also think that 3" would be better in a comfort layer for a side sleeper. If I went with a 2" comfort layer (which is a valid approach because there are many different ways to get to the same outcome) … I would use softer latex in the core to make up for the lack of thickness on top.

I wouldn’t focus on the specs so much though. 40 ILD in the bottom layer is not an issue because it is in the lowest part of the mattress. The reason he still recommended it is because it’s very close to the same as the Nature’s rest (the support layers are a little softer closer to your body and then a little firmer further away from your body). This would be a typical 3x3" Soft, Medium, Firm construction which is among the most popular they have and “fits” a wide range of people. It would be very similar to the ones you tried as I mentioned before (the support layer would have a firmness that was roughly “in between” the two you tied). It would also give you options to either re-arrange the layers or exchange any of 3 layers.

As I mentioned … I would go with a 3" comfort layer if I was in your shoes … or a softer support layer if I went with 2" but this is a little more risky because you tested a mattress that was very similar and didn’t like it.

From post #19 …

I would also try to resist the temptation to read anything into specs because as I said it will do more to confuse you. I would focus on how you felt on each mattress in terms of pressure relief and support and let them “translate” that into layer thicknesses and ILD’s.

With two people … assembling a DIY mattress can actually be fun and it’s not so difficult. Just make sure you don’t try to slide the layers over each other but more “wave” them into place.

Phoenix

54

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks, I agree with you that I should get a 3" comfort layer so then it would have to be sleepez because mattress.net only has 3 of 19 and I think that would be a little too soft. But then again, sleepez has 3" of 20 but I guess the next layer of 30 would firm it up a bit? I swear I’m trying not to think about specs too much but since I’m going to buy online now, the only thing I have to compare it to is the natures rest and it’s not the same specs, so just trying to get the equivalent. I think im gonna go with the sleepez, it’s cheaper and it seems like the layers are easier to exchange.

Also, now that I’m going the online route, I took a look at the CSD construction again. With the discount it comes out to the same price as biscayne so now I have another option lol. I know before you said you wouldnt consider it since I was buying locally, but if it’s the same price and it’s a significantly better mattress, why not? Is the zoning thing really worth it? And would I go with the softer or firmer construction?

I swear I’m done asking you questions now lol. Its either the sleepez or CSD.

55

Hi beth819,

FWIW … most people would feel little if any difference between 3" of 19 and 22 ILD latex in a side by side test. While they may be slightly different in terms of longer term pressure relief, the difference in how they felt would be very difficult to detect in a 3" layer.

This is what I mean by specs getting you confused. the specs of the nature’s rest and the SleepEz are almost the same in functional terms.

If an online mattress or outlet offers features or benefits that is important to you that isn’t offered locally … then I would certainly consider it. If they were the same in terms of features and benefits and the price difference was small … then I would go locally. Whether the zoning was “worth it” would be up to you to say. I can tell you that it is more customized than a single layer mattress and would “fit” you better (because it can be softer where you need it and firmer where you need it rather than all the same and this could make a real difference for those who aren’t happy with how well a single layer mattress works for them) but whether this would be worth it to any person would depend on how good or suitable their other options were and whether they believed the custom fitting was worth the extra price. In other words … this can only be answered by each person themselves and it would be like some people choosing a custom made outfit or shoes while others would never consider it because the outfit or shoes “off the shelf” are just fine. Everyone has different ways of measuring “value”, and different “tradeoffs” that are important to them.

My goal is to give you better options and an explanation of the differences between them … it’s always up to you though to decide which of the options you think would be best for you. what’s “worth it” to one may or may not be to another.

Phoenix

56

Hi Phoenix,

Ok, thanks. Honestly, I think anything that I get is going to be much better than what I have now, so maybe I’ll just go with sleepez then.

Oh, there really is little difference in 3"of 19 and 3" 22? The guy at biscayne said he doesn’t sell the 3"19, 2"24, 6"36, nature’s rest because it’s like a “marshmallow” and it’s “mush” and he won’t sell it anymore because it’s too soft. That’s why I asked him to test a 2"19 because he won’t even sell a 3" that soft. Do you see why I get so confused by these specs? Lol. A few people say its too soft, then other people say it’s fine, etc. That’s the main reason I am so hesistant to buy from him without any kind of return or exchange policy.

Anyway, pretty sure sleepez is the winner here lol.

57

Hi beth819,

The reason a mattress like this would be “mush” to many people (and many would love it and as a matter of fact it’s the same layering as the PLB “Beautiful”) is because there is 5" of soft latex on the top. While this would still be OK for some people because latex gets firmer faster than other types of foam …for most people the problem with this layering would be that the “soft” latex (anything 24 or less would be considered soft) is too thick. Thickness and softness work together in a mattress.

If you changed the 24 ILD to 28 or 32 it would be a different story. While most people could tell a fairly small difference between 3" of 19 and 3" of 24 … the difference between 19 and 22 in a 3 inch layer would be below detection for most people in a side by side test. Even the natural variation of talalay latex is more than that. They measure each core in 9 places for ILD and average them out and the difference between the firmest and the softest part of the same layer is usually at least 3 ILD and nobody complains about talalay latex feeling “lumpy” or “inconsistent”. Dunlop latex has an even wider range in each layer and for most people this is just fine and not noticeable.

So he is mistaking layering with the softness of a single layer and forgetting that how a mattress interacts with each person is just as important as the firmness/softness of any layer. One person’s “way too soft” is another person’s “way too firm”.

I do understand how easy it is to get confused which is why I was suggesting that once you know the specs of a mattress you lay on and felt good (or at least OK) that you forget about the specs or theory and leave that and any adjustments to the people who know how different spec changes can affect a mattress (or at least the ones who are more knowledgeable and don’t use generalizations that are inaccurate).

Quite frankly … I would also hesitate to make a purchase from a local manufacturer who wasn’t willing to do an adjustment when necessary for a reasonable charge. Everyone can make mistakes or “feel” something in the short term that changes in the longer term … and with no recourse … a mistake would be very costly. I personally think that is a poor business choice and is not the “norm” for a local manufacturer.

Phoenix

58

Hi Phoenix,

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too. With all the other manufacturers I went to, even though I didn’t like what I tested they had some sort of exchange or return policy. So it was unsettling to me that I went down there twice, the second time he didn’t even have what I wanted and still didn’t offer anything, not even a one-time exchange. I was going to go back next week to lay on the mattress one more time, but at this point I feel like he’s the one at a loss because he’d really rather lose a customer/sale over not offering some type of guarantee? I think it’s a poor business choice too and it says to me that it doesn’t really matter to him to have my business or not. Customer service is a big thing with me, if it’s not there I’ll walk out or won’t do business with someone that doesn’t deserve my business. So maybe not buying from him is a blessing in disguise after all.