Restopedic natures wonder or my blunder?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi Phoenix

I stumbled across your site a few weeks ago and have found it very informative and educational. I, like some of the other members almost paid a lot of money for an inferior mattress. My wife and I had put down a good amount of money for a kingsdown myside but fortunately I read some of the reviews that evening and also your site and subsequently cancelled the order.
I decided to take a trip to Restopedic in CT and spoke to one of the owners about the different mattresses they make in their factory, I tried each one out and decided the Natures wonder was the way to go. My wife also tried this one out but thought it ws a little firm. In reviewing the comfort layers I asked them if they could substitute one of the layers of memory foram with another layer of latex. I have read that memeory foam can run a little hot and latex runs cool. In order to get a feel of the layers of latex, my wife and I layed on a similar innerspring mattress and they placed a piece of the 2 inch layer of latex #20 over another 2 inch layer of latex #20. I thought this was too soft. We then tried a 2 inch layer of #20 over a 2 inch latex #32. That felt good and my wife agreed as well. We then talked about one step up on the bottom layer and wdecided to go to a #36, which they didn’t have in the store but would order for this.
The other change we made was with the quilting, I asked them not to include the Hi Density Foam. The 4 inches of the latex are in a pillow top and 2 layers of “bamboo” wool.
We go the mattress yesterday morning and we both thought we remembered sinking in more. Do you think because it is in a pillow top we are not getting the same sinking in feeling? Should we have gone with the #20 over #32 latex? We will try it out a few more nights. One of the things I like about going to Restopedic is that they will work with you and said they could change the layers if we request. I would appreciate your feedback.

2

Hi ctresident13,

Just to confirm the construction of your mattress and make sure I’m clear … you have 2" of 20 ILD latex over 2" of 36 ILD latex over a support system (an innerspring?). The quilting now has wool (with no polyfoam which was removed) and the fabric is a bamboo blend. Is this all correct ,… and is this over an innerspring or a latex support core?

This would make sense to me for several reasons. 36 ILD latex is quite firm in a comfort layer and even 32 ILD is on the firm side. In effect you have a 2" comfort layer and a very firm transition layer between you and the support system. In addition to this … removing the softer polyfoam in the quilting would have put you closer to the very firm 36 ILD layer and reduced the amount of foam that you can sink into before you hit the much firmer 36 ILD layer.

While your own testing is of course always more accurate than “theory at a distance” … both of the adjustments you made (using the firmer latex and removing the quilting foam) would reduce the amount you would sink in to the comfort layers and create a much firmer sleeping surface. This would be especially noticeable for side sleepers who typically need a little more thickness on top of their mattress to ease the pressure points and “fill in the gaps” in their side sleeping profile.

A pillowtop is a method of construction that allows the upper layers inside the attached pillowtop to act a little more independently than if the same layers were inside a tight top. If anything … a pillowtop that has the same thickness and layering as a non pillowtop would act a little bit softer … but in your case the effect of the pillowtop would probably be more than offset by the other changes in the mattress.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix

Thanks for your reply. Yes, this is over a lura-flex offset innerspring which is foam encased with 1.5 inch medium soft high-performance foam. To me it seemed like doing the 4 inches of #20 latex was too soft but I understand your point with the #36 latex layer being firm. What are your thoughts on doing the 4 inches with #20 latex? We’ll try it out a few more nights and see.

4

Hi ctresident13,

Based on “averages” and not your personal experience … I would think that going with 4" of 20 ILD would be quite a swing to the other side (and as you mentioned when you tried this may be too soft). My tendency would probably be to use more of an “in between” ILD in the lower 2" layer (similar to the 32 that was there or even a little lower at @ 28) but this of course would depend on how your own weight, body shape, and sleeping positions interacted with the layering.

I’m not sure exactly what the complete layering was that you tried but if the layering that “felt good” had 2" of 20 ILD over the 2" of 32 ILD over the Luraflex and had the quilting foam on top (I’m guessing 1"?) … then removing the quilting foam would probably have needed a lower ILD in the lower layer to make up for the removal of the extra layer of softer foam in the quilting to be “somewhat” equivalent.

Phoenix

5

Thanks…It was the 20ild over the 32ild with no foam in quliting. I asked about the 36ild and was told I wouldnt feel much difference. I like your suggestion about 28ild. I wasn’t offered that. I will discuss further with my wife. Thanks for you advice.

6

Hi ctresident,

When we are testing mattresses in a showroom … especially those that are somewhat close together … perceptions can often become a little fuzzy and the feel of different layerings seem to blend into one another, especially if we compare one mattress to another rather than “forgetting” each one and testing each one against our needs and preferences (and not another mattress).

For example … the first matress you tried had this layering …

Quilting from top to bottom: Cotton fabric, FR fabric, 1/2" Wool, 1"

Euro top layer top to bottom: 2" memory foam, 2" latex 20 ILD

Support system top to bottom: 1.5" medium soft hi performance foam, 1/2" Insulator, 720 Luraflex foam encased coil system.

Your comments were …

This may have felt too firm to your wife but in actual fact part of the firmness might have been because the memory foam didn’t have enough time to soften. This is especially true when there are quilting layers and wool over it which means that the memory foam would take even more time to get softer and this would also be more true for someone who was lighter.

The next step in your sequence was I think …

My understanding is that these two layers were placed on top of another mattress but I don’t know the details of what it was placed on. What was under this 4" would also have an effect on how soft it felt for you. In actual fact … memory foam typically has an ILD of 15 or less but because it takes much more time to get there … it’s softness may not become apparent for a while until body heat reaches it. This 4" latex layer may have felt softer partly because it is “instant” and doesn’t need “time” to get softer and partly because of what was under the 4" of latex rather than because the latex itself was softer than the “time delayed” softness of the memory foam.

But now you have in your mind that the 4" of 20 ILD latex is too soft so you begin to look for something firmer. This leads to testing the 2" of 20 ILD over 2" of 32 ILD. Again … how soft this feels would depend on what was underneath it. If it had some softer layers under it then the firmness of this layering would be partly “hidden” by the layers underneath it.

All of this can lead to “perceptual confusion” because instead of testing for the general “feel” of latex vs memory foam … you are testing for pressure relief and support on a layering which is different from what would actually be in your mattress.

This is possibly what led you to choosing the 36 ILD which in fact wouldn’t feel a lot different from the 32 but if it was over softer layers when you tested it which are not there in the final version of your mattress … then the real firmness of both of them would be much more apparent in the mattress you actually received.

The goal of this type of testing is to get a sense of the general “feel” of the different materials but if the layering you are testing is not the same as those in your final mattress … then your testing won’t be as accurate in terms of pressure relief and support.

All of this is of course compounded because our memories are not so good at differentiating one mattress from another once you have tried a few or at “translating” how certain layers on top of another mattress will feel when they are in the mattress we order which has different layers under it.

So the reason you are not getting the same sinking in feeling is probably partly because the layering you now have is much firmer than either the Nature’s wonder with memory foam or than 4" of 20 ILD latex over another mattress or even 2" of 20 ILD over either 32 or 36 ILD which are both over another mattress.

Either way … I’m guessing that the 20 ILD over the 32 ILD would also have been on the firm side if you had ordered this. Even the 2 layers of 20 ILD latex may have felt firmer if they were part of a mattress which had different layers under it than when you tested this.

A pillowtop would make a small difference over the same layering without a pillowtop construction but not as much as the differences in layering between what you tested and what you ended up ordering.

So to clarify alll of this … it would help to know what was underneath the 2 layers of latex (two layers of 20 ILD without anything else on top and 20 ILD over 32 ILD without anything else on top) … assuming that my assumptions are correct that they were both on top of another mattress or something other than the actual layering of the mattress that you ordered.

Phoenix

7

We placed the ild layers on another bed that had the same innerspring system as the natures wonder but it was a twin size. My wife loved the feel of the 20 ild on 20ild (4 inches). I thought it was a little soft and then we tried the 20 over 32. She thought that was ok. Then we went up to the 36 ild for that second layer and this is wherewe are at.

I called restopedic today and they responded in line with what you said. They suggested coming back and trying the 20 ild over 24 and then 20 ild over 28 ild to see how they felt. They suggested trying our mattress out for 2 weeks first to see how we do with it since it has only been 3 nights. I think that is fair and we will go this route although I think a 24 or 28 ild will probably be better for us. I do apprecaite how they are able to work with us on this so we are happy.

8

Hi ctresident13,

Separate layers placed over another mattress will usually feel different from the same layers included in the constructon of the mattress itself. This is partly because how the two layers felt would depend on what was over the innersprings on the mattress you were using as a testing base so even if it used the same innersprings as your mattress … if the toppers were tested on a mattress that had other layers than yours on top of the innersprings … then they would feel and perform differently.

For example … your mattress has an innerspring and then (bottom to top) a 1/2 inch insulator over it and then 1.5" medium soft hi performance foam and then a 2" layer of 36 and then a final 2" layer of 20 on top. This would feel much different than the same 2" layer of 36 ILD and another 2" layer of 20 ILD placed on top of another mattress that already had it’s own comfort layers besides the toppers that you were adding on top of it unless the only layers above the innerspring on your “testing” mattress was the insulator and the 1.5" of high performance foam.

Like Restopedic (and most manufacturers who would suggest the same) I think it is always wise to wait a few weeks before making any changes to give your body time to adjust to a new sleeping surface … especially if it is different from what you had before. After a few weeks … you will have a much better sense of what if any changes would be best. As you say … this is one of the great advantages of working with a local manufacturer that can make comfort adjustments when they are necessary.

Phoenix

9

[quote=“ctresident13” post=3695]We placed the ild layers on another bed that had the same innerspring system as the natures wonder but it was a twin size. My wife loved the feel of the 20 ild on 20ild (4 inches). I thought it was a little soft and then we tried the 20 over 32. She thought that was ok. Then we went up to the 36 ild for that second layer and this is wherewe are at.

I called restopedic today and they responded in line with what you said. They suggested coming back and trying the 20 ild over 24 and then 20 ild over 28 ild to see how they felt. They suggested trying our mattress out for 2 weeks first to see how we do with it since it has only been 3 nights. I think that is fair and we will go this route although I think a 24 or 28 ild will probably be better for us. I do apprecaite how they are able to work with us on this so we are happy.[/quote]

Any update on this? i am interested in this mattress.