Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking?

Hi potpot,

I can’t predict what pillow you would need, other than to point out that most lower cervical/upper thoracic issues tend to be pillow related, and you’ll want to make sure that whatever you chose helps to provide a more neutral alignment and maintains that throughout the night. You’ll want to avoid too much flexion or extension, and if you change positions throughout the night (side to back, for example), some people prefer a pillow that is “shapeable”, such as down, natural fibers or shredded latex. I go into a bit more detail about pillows in post #13 here, and you might find that interesting. Loft, support, comfort and temperature regulation are also other factors to consider. There is also a pillow thread here that you may wish to peruse.

Yes, you may notice a difference if overall the layers used are harder. But the edge in an all-latex mattress will never feel like that used in a typical innerspring product.

All of the layers of a mattress work in unison, but changes made closer to the sleeping surface of a mattress will be most noticeable. These layers will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions). People tend to “feel through” the top layer more, meaning that you will feel the properties of the next layer down to different degrees. Even the softest latex won’t “bottom out” (meaning it has no more ability to compress because the walls of the cell structure are fully compressed on top of each other) if it is on top of another foam layer and will have the ability to compress more yet even though very soft latex will compress to a much larger percentage of its thickness than a firmer layer. Every layer of a mattress affects and is affected by every other layer in the mattress to different degrees. This compression of each layer is what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers, which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body, while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory.

Making changes as you suggested deeper in the mattress will be less noticeable in your initial comfort impressions, and more noticeable in deeper alignment, although a bit of a firmer overall impression will be noticeable. Going from a ‘medium" and “medium-soft” to “medium” and “firm” for the lower layers would tend to be a more common “progressive” design and would tend to provide better overall deep support.

Changing your second layer from a “firm” to a “medium” will have more noticeable results, although I think in your previous comments you thought that this was too soft for you. If you think that the transition from the “soft” upper layer to the “firm” is a bit too abrupt, you could try the soft-medium-medium-firm combination (changing up deeper support and upper layers, which is mixing a few variables at once, which does make it a bit more difficult to pinpoint the reasons for changes in your comfort preference), and I believe you already tried something similar, and you may wish to do the St-Md, 25d, Fd and see how that works. Another option, which I hinted at in my earlier reply, could be to try something along the lines of 25t, 25d, Md, Fd and see if you like the slightly firmer upper layers.

There really are quite a few different combinations, but I wouldn’t be changing things up just for the sake of change. Focus upon what you’re attempting to address (needing better deep support or a desire to change initial comfort) and address only that specific issue, manipulating as few variables as possible so that you may track your reactions logically to the changes you make. And while edge support is important, I wouldn’t rearrange layers to manipulate that variable, as doing so will change the overall comfort of your mattress, and you’d be prioritizing edge-feel over mattress sleeping comfort.

Phoenix

Phoenix - just want to say your suggestions were great!

  1. Rolling the foam layers is actually substantially easier than trying to fold them over and pick them up. I’m still sweating quite a bit after re-ordering the 8 split layers by myself, but at least my back no longer aches. Thank you.

  2. Also - being very conscientious about lining up the edges of each layer does also help with the firmness of the edge. The edge no longer collapses the way it did when I was a little less careful about lining up the layers.

  3. Right now - we’re sleeping on (L) Medium Talalay / Soft Talalay / Medium Dunlop / 25ILD Dunlop, and (R) 25ILD Talalay / Firm Talalay / Firm Dunlop / Soft Talalay.
    I wish we had gotten some firmer layers, because our deep support layers are a little mushy.
    But overall, we’re definitely getting closer to the feel we like - we like both the Medium Talalay over Soft Talalay feel as well as the 25ILD Talalay over Firm Talalay feels … the right side feels softer, though it’s hard to tell how much of that is due to the upper two layers since the deeper layers are different.

Overall, I think both of us want something maybe slightly softer than the (L) side, and maybe slightly firmer than the (R) side. Do you think if I take what we have on the Right side, and replace the bottom soft Talalay layer with maybe a Medium Dunlop (or maybe even a Medium or Firm Talalay layer somewhere), that would have a significant enough effect that I could feel a difference?

Or alternately, would it make sense to take the Left side and go Medium Talalay => Soft Talalay => Firm Talalay => Medium Dunlop, or something like that? Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[quote]any suggestions on what to do about a crick in my neck haha?
I’ve read that you need to change your pillow to accommodate a new mattress, but I’m not sure which direction I need to go – bigger? smaller? firmer?[/quote]

Pillow preference is so personal. For myself I have always preferred a thin pillow because anything higher than 4" in loft gives me a sore neck. I recently went with a 2.5" foam pillow but may switch to a 3" latex pillow. If you are a side sleeper you may prefer lower loft. I sleep on my side and back and find the super thin loft to be great for me.

Personally it does change the feel of the mattress for me but again this is a personal anecdote you may be different.

Hi potpot,

[quote]
Phoenix - just want to say your suggestions were great![/quote]

I’m happy for that!

[quote]1) Rolling the foam layers is actually substantially easier than trying to fold them over and pick them up. I’m still sweating quite a bit after re-ordering the 8 split layers by myself, but at least my back no longer aches. Thank you.

  1. Also - being very conscientious about lining up the edges of each layer does also help with the firmness of the edge. The edge no longer collapses the way it did when I was a little less careful about lining up the layers.[/quote]

Great feedback on those tips – thank you.

[quote]3) Right now - we’re sleeping on [top to bottom:] (L) Medium Talalay / Soft Talalay / Medium Dunlop / 25ILD Dunlop, and (R) 25ILD Talalay / Firm Talalay / Firm Dunlop / Soft Talalay.

But overall, we’re definitely getting closer to the feel we like - we like both the Medium Talalay over Soft Talalay feel as well as the 25ILD Talalay over Firm Talalay feels … the right side feels softer, though it’s hard to tell how much of that is due to the upper two layers since the deeper layers are different.

Overall, I think both of us want something maybe slightly softer than the (L) side, and maybe slightly firmer than the (R) side.[/quote]

Changes in “comfort” will mostly be felt through manipulation of the uppermost layers, so in the configuration your currently have and what you expressed you’d like to achieve, I would swap the top layers of each side. This will result in a slightly softer surface comfort on the left side and a slightly firmer surface comfort on the right side.

You probably would notice a difference, but it would be most noticeable for alignment purposes. I would try manipulating the upper layers first, and then make changes to the deeper support layers next.

Phoenix

This caught my attention. Was checking out sleeper ez site. Came across this site and read about this poor guy trying to figure out a configuration. I also am going crazy trying to figure out what I feel would be the most comfortable mattress. I give him credit, at least he ordered a mattress. I’m still doing research and trying to find a mattress store that would have comparable latex before ordering on line without even trying. I am a side sleeper have shoulder issues but do not want to sink into the bed but want some comfort for shoulder. I’m 5’5 and 145 lbs. If I understood correctly sleepez charges same price for all talalay or Dunlop and talalay. I am confused. Am also looking to go organic. Any help would be surely welcomed. Thank you

Hi Debbiec,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Trying to create your own DIY mattress (like potpot) can be quite a challenge, as I outline in post #15 here. Such projects should be entered into with more of a “spirit of adventure”, with satisfaction coming not only from the completed mattress, but the process itself, as it can be quite a challenge when purchasing foam pieces from various suppliers.

When you’re considering a component-style system, unless you have a large amount of experience with things such as mattress design (which would be very few individuals), I’ll recommend that you follow the guidance from an experienced mattress manufacturer (in your case, SleepEZ, a site member here, which means that I think highly of them) through a detailed phone conversation. You can relate things such as your specific needs, body type, pre-existing conditions, expectations, products you’ve tried and liked, etc., and they can take that information and using their expertise recommend a configuration in their offerings that they feel will provide you the best chance at success. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else, and at that time you can also inquire about any return/exchange options that a manufacturer/retailer may provide in case you purchase doesn’t turn out as well as you had hoped. Being able to exchange layers, and not the whole mattress, is one of the advantages of a component-style system.

[quote]If I understood correctly sleepez charges same price for all talalay or Dunlop and talalay. I am confused[/quote].

Their “Natural Line” allows for combinations of blended Talalay or 100% Natural Dunlop. Their “Organic Line” allows for combinations of 100% Natural Talalay or GOLS-certified (Organic-certified) Dunlop. Talalay and Dunlop have different characteristics, and that again could be relayed to you when you phone SleepEZ in any configuration that they may recommend, and why they would have advised for a certain type and softness of latex within a specific configuration.

Most people that are looking for an “organic” mattress or materials are usually concerned more with “safety” than whether the materials have an actual organic certification and they usually aren’t aware that an organic certification isn’t the same thing as a safety certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a “safety” certification is enough.

Phoenix

Thank you for responding with all the great info. I have been reading everything you suggested. Yes this is going to be a challenge,hope I’m up for it. Wanted to know if you know anything about Foam Source .boulder comforts in Colorado. trying to compare their Nu-Lex Natural Talalay mattress to the sleepez organic. From what I understand it is 100% natural talatech(no blends) is that correct? Talalay Global. Latex Green natural or organic Dunlop certified. And Oeko-Tex. It is more $ . $2799. For queen. Is the latex from sleepez different in organic line from this? Sleepez is $2100. For queen for all talalay or mix of talalay and Dunlop in organic all same price no matter which latex you choose. Thought talalay was more expensive bc of process? Am I understanding this correctly? Maybe I am in over my head here. Just trying to compare apples to apples. Thank you for any info you are able to share.

Hi Debbiec,

You’re very welcome. And you’re up for the “challenge” – I know it!

I had a few phone calls with them a few years ago and I found them to be knowledgeable and transparent and they have a long track history of their time in business.

The 100% natural Talalay Foam Source uses is from Talalay Global in Connecticut. The 100% natural Talalay used in the “Organic Line” from SleepEZ is from Radium Foam in the Netherlands. The biggest difference would be that Radium uses no fillers in their latex, and Talalay Global does use some in theirs. There are also some slight differences in the production and curing process, each proprietary to the manufacturer. Both would be good quality materials. Latex Green is the supplier for the Dunlop latex in SleepEZ “Organic Line”, and it is a GOLS certified 100% natural Dunlop, but you are comparing Talalay and not Dunlop, as I understand. Oeko-Tex is the “safety certification” that both of these types of latex have (I linked to the differences in “organic” and “safety certifications” in my previous reply to you).

Some people consider shopping locally a lower risk and prefer dealing with a local manufacturer or retailer vs online, and as an arbitrary number I usually suggest a local premium in the range of 20 % or so would be “roughly equivalent value” for some people but of course each person may have their own number and risk tolerance.

There’s quite a bit involved in the pricing of a piece of latex. While the process of making a Talalay core is more involved and takes more time than making a Dunlop core, there are many factors involved in overall cots, including the total ingredients, transportation, location of manufacturing, certifications, along with the cost of doing business of the actual retailers, that all come into play in determining the final offering price of a finished mattress.

As you may already be aware, SleepEZ is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and I would not hesitate to recommend them for your consideration.

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix for responding. It made me feel more confident hearing what you had to say. Unfortunately,I went to a savvy rest dealer and ordered a talalay mattress. I caved. Couldn’t take it anymore. Said to myself you are making yourself crazy. Just order something. Weak moment. Sorry I did not see your post before I left for the mattress store. I would have ordered from one of those two companies and would have felt good about the purchase bc of what you said. Of course I spent more than I needed to. Hope I am happy with it. This site is amazing and you are so knowledgeable . I will continue to read your posts and already told a friend to go on the site. Can’t thank you enough for all the info you provide and everyones input. I ordered 2 firms med and soft. Did try in store and feel I can move layers around if need be. Should get it in 2 weeks. It is a done deal so hoping for the best. Hoping I will sleep well and forget about the cost. Lol again thank you thank you thank you . debbie

Hi Debbiec,

Congratulations on your new Savvy Rest mattress! :cheer: I’ll be interested in learning about your feedback once you’ve had a chance to sleep upon it for a while. The product you purchased uses good quality and durable materials, but as you know it is in a bit of a higher price point, but hopefully you were able to take advantage of their current Talalay promotion. There’s nothing to feel bad about with what you bought. Everyone’s personal value equation is different, and if you sleep well, then the price you paid will have been well spent.

Thank you for your kindness :blush: , and for spreading the word!

Phoenix

Phoenix
I will post after I have tried the mattress. If somehow it could help someone else to make a decision. I do know that sleepez said to try the savvy rest more like their mattress feel. If that is true maybe then my post could help someone else.
Thank you Phoenix

Hi Debbiec,

I’ll be interested in your results!

Phoenix

Hi Debbiec!

You’ve had your mattress for a coupe of months now? I would love to know how you like it. And which model, firmness and type of latex you ordered.

Thanks!

Hi Buttercupbetty

I ordered the savvy rest all talalay. Top layer is soft 2nd is medium 3rd firm 4th firm. In the store when I tried out mattress bottom layers were Dunlop med and firm. Felt it was too soft so decided to order the way I did, thinking it would be firmer. Well it is. The top Iayer is not as soft as in the store. I have had the mattress for a month now. I am getting use to it now. It took a good 3 weeks. I hated it at first. I will say I do not move around all night like I did before. Find myself waking in the same position, so I guess that is good. Don’t know if I change the 3rd layer to medium if that would be better. I will tell you if I had to do it over I would order on line with sleep ez. In my opinion I do not believe it was necessary to spend the extra money for the savvy rest. I’m sure the sleepez would be just as good. I do like a firmer mattress, don’t like that sinking in feeling.(hurts my back) Hope this helps you some.
Good luck
Debbiec

Hi Debbiec,

This is helpful information! I wrote you b/c I am a similar height & weight, (145#, 5’6") side sleeper with a history of shoulder issues. And I’m thinking that I might like the same configuration as you purchased (T-S/T-M/T-F, T-F). Also interesting that this felt FIRMER than the Dunlop. I guess Phoenix is right, it really is a subjective experience.

Other configurations the tI would like to try are:

T-S/T-M/T-F (10" mattress). I have head that at our weight (145#), we are NOT likely to “feel” (aka, sink into) the 4th layer. Did you try 3 layer mattresses at their showroom? Just wondering if it felt less comfortable, or if you choose thicker for aesthetic reasons?

T-S/T-M/T-M/T-F (13", 4 layer) is another possibility since I like a softer feel.

T-S/T-M/T-F/T-XF. Mostly because we are looking for a split king and my husband might prefer the 13". (Question to Phoenix: I’m thinking that if I can’t feel the 4th layer anyway, isn’t former better for longevity?)

Thanks for the SleepEZ recommendation and for sharing that it has taken you a few weeks to “like” your new mattress. I hope it brings you restful sleep for years to come!

I appreciate you taking the time to share!
~Buttercupbetty

Hi DebbieC,

Thanks for your update. I’m glad that you’re adjusting to your new mattress and sleeping better. One thing to consider is that the cover of your Savvy Rest mattress is quite stiff initially when new, and over time it will soften a bit, which would be one of the reasons your new mattress felt a bit firmer on top than the floor model you tested.

Phoenix

Hi buttercupbetty,

All of the layers of a mattress work together to provide comfort and distribute the load placed upon them. All the layers of a mattress actually compress simultaneously not sequentially and they will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions).

While “going through” a layer is commonly used as a way to explain things because there is a different amount of force that “goes through” a layer and compresses the next layer of the mattress depending on the hysteresis of the material (how much energy it absorbs) and on how point elastic the material is (how much compression affects or is affected by the surrounding areas of the layer) … it would be just as accurate to say that you will “feel through” the top layer meaning that you will feel the properties of the next layer down to different degrees. Even the softest latex won’t “bottom out” (meaning it has no more ability to compress because the walls of the cell structure are fully compressed on top of each other) if it is on top of another foam layer and will have the ability to compress more yet even though very soft latex will compress to a much larger percentage of its thickness than a firmer layer. Every layer of a mattress affects and is affected by every other layer in the mattress to different degrees, even if you may not feel as much of a difference between a three and four layer design.

The compression of each layer (mainly controlled by thickness, firmness, compression modulus, hysteresis, and position along with a few other specs) are what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what “stops” the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory and why different mattresses match the body types and sleeping positions and preferences of different people … or don’t.

Without personal testing and going through the learning curve of becoming familiar enough with different types of materials and layering and how they work in combination with each other to predict how a certain layering may work for you … you would be much better off simply going with the suggestions of a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer who is familiar with how the different options they offer fits the “averages” of people who may be similar to you. It may very well be that you personally would feel quite comfortable on a three layer combination, and there certainly wouldn’t be a “need” to go to a fourth layer with your BMI unless it was a personal preference for the comfort difference you may have noticed when testing out different configurations.

There is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience and without this the next best way to decide on the design of a mattress is to use the “averages” of a manufacturer for people of your weight range, body type, sleeping style, and personal preferences.

Phoenix

I did try the 10" mattress and found it uncomfortable. Don’t remember the configuration. Found adding the 4th layer or topper in soft was more comfortable to me. The 13" is what I ordered. The configuration you mentioned T-S T-M T-M T-F. Is what was recommended to me. But trying in the store, I felt was too soft for me. So I went with the 2 firm layers. It is firm . If you like a softer feel I don’t know if you would be happy with 2 firms or the firm and xfirm. If it was me I would go with the 2 mediums first. But what do I know. Just my opinion. Hope you find a good combo. Would be interested to know what you decide and how you like it.

Hi Phoenix
That is interesting what you said about the savvy rest cover. Maybe that is why I am adjusting a little better now. Hopefully it will soften up a little more. The top layer which is T-S is in its own cover. I guess both covers would be the same. Hopefully it applies to that also. Was just disappointed that I didn’t feel that pressure relief that I was expecting (bc to me felt firmer than I was expecting) Don’t know if switching out 3rd firm layer with med. would give me the feeling I was expecting. I did put a wool mattress protector from savvy on it. Maybe that helped a little also. With savvy I would need to pay for the layer exchange if I Decided to try the medium layer. Haven’t decided yet . Would hate to do that and not be happy. Will give it a little more time.

Thank you! I will let you know what we decide to purchase!