Love your site Phoenix, it has been very useful and informative. Many kudo’s to you. :woohoo:
I am seriously considering buying a MF mattress from RRM. I’ve spoke to one of RMM’s sales associates (Lane) twice in the past couple days and while he was helpful, I wanted to bounce a few things off off you. I have narrowed my choices down to the Palisades, Tamarack or Brighton. Only the Brighton incorporates a layer of 5lb density foam. The other two use 4lb density. According to Lane, the ILD on the Palisades is 26 - 30 (odd that it was ranged instead of one specific number), I don’t know about the other two.
Based on the construction spec’s and your knowledge of RMM products, how would you rate the expected comfort level of these mattresses, i.e., soft, med, firm or a combo of these. I have tended to lean towards a minimum comfort level of medium to med/firm. My wife and I are both predominately side sleepers and occasionally on sleep on our backs and we are in the 160 - 170 lb range.
These all have the top MF layer quilted into the cover and I read one of your posts a while back about this technique and how it affects/changes the feel/comfort but for the life of me I can’t find that post and I can’t recall exactly what you said about. I would think attaching the top layer to the cover would create a firmer feel. What’s the advantage, if any of doing this other than to give the mattress the look of a traditional inner spring mattress top.
It seems like RMM sells quality mattress and you speak highly of them, but I’ve been very surprised by the lack of customer feedback available here on the MU as well as via RMM on their individual models, including the three that I am interested in. Wonder why?
Anyone else out there own a RMM Palisades, Tamarack or Brighton and would like to share their experience?
As you probably know … 5 lb memory foam is more durable than 4 lb memory foam but lower density memory foams often have a faster response and a feel and the extra breathability that some people prefer.
Each layer of a mattress will have it’s own ILD (IFD) rating so the mattress itself doesn’t have a rating. All foam materials have a range of ILD’s across the surface that will vary according to the type of foam and the tolerance range that is acceptable to the mattress manufacturer. ILD is never exact although for simplicity they are often quoted as a specific number which would usually be a nominal or average number.
I have never slept on an RMM mattress or on their specific designs so I don’t know what it would feel like for me and with all the variables involved it would be almost impossible for me to even guess at what it may feel like to someone else except to say that thicker layers of softer foams will feel softer and most 5 lb memory foam will feel firmer for most (but not all) people but this will also depend on the overall layering of the mattress as well because each layer doesn’t act independently. These questions are always best asked of the manufacturer or retailer themselves who know all the details of all the layers and components of their mattresses (which I don’t) and have a customer base with a wide range of body types and sleeping styles they can use as a reference point for each model they make.
“Feel” and comfort, softness, and firmness is both objective and subjective and unique to each individual and will vary based on many factors. If you had tested a specific mattress where every layer was known and used that as a reference point and then listed all the details of the layers in the RMM you are looking at (which I don’t know), I could suggest which would be firmer or softer to most people but this still may not apply to you.
My goal is to speak to the quality and value of various manufacturers but only the person themselves can know how a mattress feels to them. In the absence of specific testing, then a mattress that a manufacturer knows from experience may be similar (and is widely available) that can be used as a local comparison can be an effective way to gauge how it feels for a specific person or failing that the experience and knowledge of the manufacturer based on the “averages” of their customers is the next best way to estimate how it may feel to you. I should also mention that part of the value of RMM is that they will make custom builds that are different from the layering of their listed mattresses which can be customized to your preferences. They also have some interesting options in the “do it yourself” section of their site.
The quilting in a mattress is quilted in different patterns to the mattress cover or ticking itself and can use various materials including various natural and synthetic fibers or different types of foam that are suitable for quilting (have a higher tear strength). Depending on the quilting pattern … it will pre-compress the quilting material to different degrees to make it either softer or firmer (tighter quilt patterns are firmer and looser quilt patterns are softer) and the precompression of the foam also increases durability as well. This is used for several reasons.
The quilting material itself will affect the surface or “hand feel” of the mattress depending on the type of quilting material that is used so it will affect the overall feel of the mattress and how the materials below the quilt feel and respond. For example it can reduce the surface resilience of latex or it can increase the surface resilience of memory foam. It can also add a more breathable or ventilating layer to the mattress to help with temperature regulation. By pre-compressing the material it can also reduce the effect of softening or compression in the quilting material over time. It can also increase the durability of the foam layers below it by absorbing some of the compression forces of sleeping.
In the case of the Rocky Mountain mattresses you are mentioning … the quilting is polyfoam which is a more resilient and breathable material than memory foam so this can add some breathability to the surface of the mattress and it will also affect the rate at which heat reaches the memory foam below it (which will slow down the compression of the memory foam foam below it and reduce the tendency to sink in deeper over the course of the night) and it can also add a more resilient surface feel to the mattress (instead of the more “in” the mattress feeling of sleeping directly on memory foam). The “feel” of the comfort layers will be a little less “memory foam like” in other words because of the effect of the quilting.
The quilting can also prevent the stretching and wrinkles that can happen with the stretching of unquilted mattress ticking over time and can help it keep its shape. They can also absorb some of the daily stress of use and a contribute somewhat to the durability of the layers below them.
Overall the quilting layer and pattern can have a significant effect on the overall feel and performance of the surface layers of the mattress. The thicker the quilting the more it will contribute the properties of the quilting material itself to the the feel and performance of the mattress and how they blend with the properties of the comfort layers of the mattress below the quilting. Because quilting materials are typically lower density and soft (although this is not always the case) , it’s usually best to be very cautious with quilting layers in the range of 2" or more so that the effect of foam softening (or the fibers packing down and becoming firmer if this is the quilting material used) in the upper layers of the mattress is minimized and comfort and support can be better maintained. With thicker quilting layers more than an inch or so, it becomes important to know the density of any foam in the quilting or the type of fiber used because lower density or lower quality materials in the quilting in thicker layers in combination with any materials under them that are more prone to softening that are part of the comfort layers will tend to soften or compress first over time and can lead to the loss of comfort or support in a mattress if these lower quality materials are too thick.
You haven’t mentioned your weight or other specifics but with weights over about the lower 200 lb range or so I would be cautious with and minimize the use of medium density memory foam (in the 4 lb range) in combination with thicker quilting layers (more than an inch or so … again depending on the density of the foam) because it can increase the tendency of the upper layers to soften and the loss of comfort or support especially for heavier individuals and the lowered durability may not be worth the tradeoff between the comfort and performance preferences that often go with medium density memory foams.
I have no real idea except perhaps the site itself is still relatively new and some of the members have less feedback than others, and perhaps because sometimes feedback itself goes in “waves” of momentum (as more people post more people seem to follow the lead of others :)). A forum search on Rocky Mountain (you can just click this) will bring up many pages of posts but of course many of them are questions and not feedback from a mattress purchase by a member.
Hopefully some of the members here or the public that own the mattresses you are looking at will see this and post their comments and feedback as well.
OMG Phoenix – thank you for the abundance of information :cheer: . After my post here and before your reply I spoke to Dave at RMM. He was awesome and after giving him information on our sleeping positions and preferences, he strongly suggested the Brighton 12" as the optimal choice. He also explained, but not to the level of detail as you did, about the dynamics and advantages of a quilted cover/ticking. While I’m nervous in the service about buying a mattress sight unseen, I’m feeling much more confident I’ll be making a wise choice after learning so much from you and Dave.
FWIW, I’m just about at the total burn-out level now researching and shopping for a mattress, however, without the assistance of your Mattress Underground I can almost assure you I would have fallen into the abyss of the major manufacturers gimmicks and regretted my decision down the road.
So, I’ll be pulling the trigger on the Brighton. I think the bang for the buck is there with an RMM mattress – as you have said they’re a nice blend of quality and value. I can only hope our decision will be a wonderful, long term relationship that rewards us with delightful sleep.
I’ll keep you posted on our buying and user experience with RMM and their Brighton model.
Dave is great to work with and I think the antidote to “mattress information burnout” is to deal with a manufacturer who knows the details of their mattresses and materials and really has your best interests at heart. The more they know … the less you have to know
Congratulations on your new mattress!
I think you made a good choice (I would tend towards 5 lb memory memory foam as well) and I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve received the mattress and had a chance to sleep on it.
