Also meant to say thanks for the great information. Customsleepdesigns may be a great option. I’ll definitely look into them.
Thanks again,
John
Hi jdicecco,
That is among the most bizarre email exchanges I have seen in a while!
Thanks for posting it … and I’m looking forward to any more feedback or questions you may have along the way.
Phoenix
No kidding. I was really stunned. The person was listed as Ed Brians, EVP. I really hope that doesn’t mean Executive Vice President. I was actually so taken back that I thought they must have a rogue employee on their hands, since he emailed me from an aol account. In one reply I copied saatva customer service and he replied saying his was the official response. Just flat out strange. In any event, I appreciate the site and the information. Good stuff.
John
I would NOT RECOMMEND SAATVA
We purchased the Luxury Firm mattress. After sleeping on it for several weeks, we found it very uncomfortable. My arm regularly falls asleep and I wake up having to change positions and with that awful prickly feeling. We were reluctant to go through the hassle of returning it and having to find another mattress and decided to purchase a foam topper to cushion it. We purchased a 4 inch foam topper and spent 2 weeks trying that out. The mattress is still uncomfortable. I then contacted Saatva to return the mattress. We were less than a week past the 30-day return window. They offered no flexibility despite our efforts (purchasing the foam topper) and despite the 30 day window occuring over the holidays (Xmas and New Years).
I would not recommed the mattress or Saatva to anyone.
Phoenix,
I was also ready to purchase a Saatva Mattress until I came across your mattress forum while doing my due diligent. Thank you for sharing this valuable information on this topic. Since there is so much information to consider, I’d appreciate your assistance with narrowing down suitable factory direct options having a better value point. Although Parklane appears to have a good products, their shipping charges are too expensive to zip code 07728.
I will be purchasing a king size. Having herniated discs, I am a back and side sleeper. My wife has a healthy spine, but is a side and stomach slipper. Her side edge support usually softens much quicker my mine. Both of us prefer a bed that sleeps cool.
I’d appreciate any recommendations that you can provide.
Hi Tony,
You’ve probably read this but just in case … the first place I would start is post #1 here and the information it links to. This will give you the basic information you need to make good choices.
Once you are “armed” with some good information … then it’s time to begin testing mattresses and different material combinations and the better options I’m aware of in or around the Freehold Township, NJ area are listed in post #6 here.
A little further away the list for the Monroe Township/Newark, NJ area list here and the list for the Trenton/Philadelphia/Wilmington region here may also be helpful.
Phoenix
hello! 
Well, did what a few others did and searched for reviews of Saatva… odd name, interesting though.
Now, with the posts about their mattresses, maybe it’s better to skip it and try something else.
So many choices, all of them confusing and nothing really makes sense after a while.
I have a spinal condition, so I have weird requirements, but mostly need a mattress that’s supportive and firm, without being hard. Many seem to fit the bill, but they range in price from cheap to ridiculous!
So, seems like Phoenix is the one person in the world to have access to the best answers:)
I’m in Fairfax, va , but moving to manassas, but it’s all the same geographic region west of Wash DC. So, suggestions on places and ideas for what i’d need would be awesome. We’re moving soon, so need to move on this since sleeping on the floor would suck… But wasting money on a crappy bed might suck more!
Thanks
Roc
Hi rocdred,
I have recently talked with both the manufacturer and retailer of the Saatva and there will be a bit more information added to the comments over the next few days. They are certainly better quality/value than most mainstream mattresses but some of the comparisons on the site are somewhat misleading and not apples to apples comparisons.
The first place to start your research is post #1 here which will give you all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best choices. It will also help you think about mattresses and mattress shopping in very different ways and give you meaningful ways to make quality and value comparisons instead of making a “blind” purchase.
Some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the general Fairfax/DC area are listed in post #2 here.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix.
I have done a fair amount of research already, and one of the hardest things about the Saatva beds are the unbelievable # of positive reviews. Perhaps they’re fake but some other mattress info sites give them a glowing review.
While it’s great you’ve gotten them to adjust their claims, it may not necessarily discount buying their mattresses.
65 positive reviews on this site: What's the Best Mattress | Saatva User Reviews
and the BBB gives them a A- with ZERO complaints lodged… Ironically, Sleep Number gets an A+ which floors me based on complaints.com’s billion issues with them.
They are absolutely guaranteeing If I don’t like their mattress I can return it for the original $89 delivery fee.
for $1300 for what ‘seems’ to be a decent option, maybe i’ll give them a shot. only a few here have said they’ve had problems, it would be nice if others with positive experiences posted them …!
have a good one
Roc
Hi rocdred,
Adjusting their claims (such as here) would be a step in the right direction and I agree that for some people they may be better quality/value than an alternative they may otherwise choose from the many mainstream mattresses available. The frame of reference on this site though is a little different from most of the rest of the industry or internet when every mattress is being compared in more meaningful ways with some of the best in the industry rather than against most mainstream mattresses which are already poor quality/value…
If I was looking at this style of mattress (innerspring support system and an innerspring or microcoil comfort layer with some polyfoam) then I would look at local manufacturers or other local sources for a similar mattress or mattresses in a similar budget range and then decide which one best met my criteria based on a meaningful comparisons and my personal value equation. If it was clearly the best value for you based on your individual criteria then of course it would be the one you purchase.
As you can see in post #13 here … I pay little to no attention to mattress reviews because nobody else can know whether a mattress is suitable for you and perhaps less than 1% of people have the knowledge to know the quality of what they purchased although reviews about the knowledge or service of a business are certainly meaningful.
I have seen ebay mattresses for example with 10,000 plus reviews that are 99% positive but have little meaning because they are just a way that people congratulate themselves and justify the “deal” they think they received and less than 1% or them even realize the quality or real value of what they purchased … or what they could have purchased instead.
This certainly reduces the risk of an online purchase as far as PPP. The problem is that without making meaningful comparisons with other mattresses that are similar in design or in a similar price range you have no way to make any meaningful comparisons in terms of quality, durability, or value. Comfort/pressure relief is what you feel when you first lie on a mattress, support/alignment is what you feel when you wake up in the morning and these are what the comfort guarantee covers. Durability though is what you feel in a year or two down the road (and sometimes sooner). A comfort exchange has value but only for a limited time and beyond that you are reliant on a warranty and a warranty doesn’t cover the loss of comfort and support that happens when materials soften or break down unless there is a corresponding impression more than the warranty exclusion which is most often not the case. Comfort support and durability are all important parts of a mattress purchase along of course with all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of each person’s personal value equation.
Phoenix
hello…!
it’s clear that you have a much different method of reviewing mattresses than myself, or perhaps anyone. Since you seem to know the most intimate details of how mattresses are built, the materials used and the ways they assemble them, you probably would be the scariest customer in the world since you’d clearly know 100x more than the smartest salesman in any store short of it being an owner of a factory.
That being said, my requirements simply boil down to finding a decent bed at a decent price. I’ve had the SF bed that lasted a long time and was comfortable, and other beds that sucked.
And now, moving into Life V2.0, I don’t have the money or time to spend looking for that perfect bed. And since laying on a bed in a showroom for a minute or 2 is pointless, it all boils down to what we read, on reviews from others and other sites like yours.
The end result for me at this point is the best bed for the buck. And since I can’t find the stream of ‘worst POS ever’ that you see with MANY beds from many companies, especially places like Sleep # which is god awful, to the most of the biggest brands.
Not knowing much about Saatva makes it easier to not instantly hate them, since there’s not enough info to hate them… And the reviews of people who posted they like the mattress are almost too good to be true, so even the skeptic in me that says, ok, they have staff posting fake reviews, the bottom line is If their mattresses were crap, people WOULD write it. There are usually far more complainers than praisers, and people probably complain at a 10-100x ratio to praise.
I guess it’s time for me to find out myself, and I found someone selling a Queen Saatva bed for 800… it’s a $500+ discount which seems to make my experiment worth it. Even the Saatva CSR said for that price and age (only a few months old) and palatable reasons for selling (he bought a king, same brand, the Queen was too small) makes it worth taking a shot.
I’ll come back and let you know my opinions (for whatever they’re worth) in a few weeks after we’ve slept on it and see how we like it, especially me with my back issues.
I don’t know how you find the time to do what you do, but having someone who knows about an industry as you do and shows such amazing passion about it on this site is a tribute to you!
Thanks!
Roc
Hi rocdred,
Yes … much of the information on this site can certainly change the way people look at mattresses or evaluate them but once you read it makes so much sense to most people that it would be difficult to make a blind purchase again. This type of information can empower consumers to make much better choices. There are many in the industry that look at mattresses the same way and I have had hundreds of conversations with retailers and manufacturers who are grateful that this type of information is finally available in one place as they often felt like a lone voice trying to help their customers and provide better information in an industry that is mostly deceptive hype and all the while coming up against the marketing “stories” that are the norm in the industry that so many consumers believe so easily without any “fact checking”.
This depends on your definition of what “decent” means. For some people a 6" layer of good quality polyfoam with a decent cover for a fewe hundred dollars would be a decent mattress and would provide them with good quality sleep for a long time. For others the same “mattress” would be unsleepable.
There are really 4 things that are consistently important in a mattress purchase. One is comfort/pressure relief which is what you feel when you go to sleep at night. One is support/alignment what you feel when you wake up in the morning. If you know how to do accurate and objective testing on a mattress these can be tested in a showroom. The next is the quality of the materials in terms of durability. This is all about knowing what is inside your mattress (and/or buying froom someone who will tell you) so you have a reasonable idea of how the mattress will feel and perform in a year or more down the road. Lower quality materials will soften and break down much faster and the loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening isn’t covered by warranties. Finally there is all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors that are part of each person’s personal value equation. This is what can help them make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses and who they purchase from.
A mattress is one of the most important purchases that most people will make over the next decade and will have a bigger effect on how they feel and their overall wellbeing (obvious or hidden) than almost any other purchase they make. Following the steps and guidelines can help people make much higher quality/value and more suitable choices.
I would agree that lying on a mattress for 2 minutes is pointless and a waste of time and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it. Testing a mattress for “comfort” alone or reading reviews is also mostly pointless and your odds of making the most suitable choice for those who do this are less than 50/50 (see this study). On the other hand those who carefully and objectively test a mattress following the guidelines I have suggested have much higher odds of making a very good choice. Of course there is a range of people that goes from “I can sleep on anything” to “princess and the pea” and for those who are at the “I can sleep on anything” end of the scale then there are a large number of mattresses that would likely be suitable in terms of PPP and they have many more options.
Each person of course is going to choose what is most important to them or what they believe regardless of what they read on any website. Saatva is certainly a better choice than most mainstream options and they make it easy to do business with them because of their return policy. Quality and value of the mattress aside though … some of the comparisons they make are not completely accurate and somewhat misleading and it would make sense to me to compare them to a couple of other mattresses that are available to you and then you can make much more meaningful decisions. They are certainly a better choice than many others that are available in the mainstream industry in spite of the mattresses that they use as comparisons on their site (and I believe that you will likely see this change over time based on my conversations with both them and the manufacturer of the mattress who are actually “good people” IMO). The factory that manufacturers them is one of the larger brands (in the top 20) that I have mentioned many times on the site as being potentially better value and is more transparent than most manufacturers of their size.
Since value is relative to each person … only you can decide what is the best “value” for you and if making a quick decision is an important part of value to you then that would be an important part of your choice. Value is always relative to what you are comparing something to and to the criteria that is most important to each person.
If you are comfortable buying a used mattress (and you cal see here some of the things I would look for here) then I would probably be looking at paying something in the order of 50% of the mattress and then go up or down from there based on “best judgement” and the condition of the mattress and any other factors you considered important. Part of this is that if you aren’t happy with your choice you will have no recourse and no matter what the quality or value of a mattress if you can’t sleep on it over the long term it would have little value to you. At the very least … unless you are in the “I can sleep on anything” end of the scale … I would make sure you did some very careful and objective testing on the mattress for PPP.
There is no right or wrong in any of this … only informed decisions.
Assuming you go through with the purchase … I’m looking forward to your feedback when you have the chance to sleep on it
Phoenix
I was drawn to this thread because, quite frankly, it is one of the only things posted on the Internet that doesn’t praise Saatva as if it’s the second coming of mattresses.
Let me begin by saying I recently purchased a Saatva mattress. However, I didn’t particularly feel good about doing so after feeling the same way others apparently feel after reading the multitude of praises that look too good to be true. No doubt, it seems as if Saatva staff are writing positive reviews on sites like these…
http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/reviews/product/8695/saatva-saatva/reviews/?g=1
It just seems so over-the-top to take seriously. In one review, a customer goes on to say that when guests come to his/her home, they prefer to sleep in the bedroom that has the Saatva mattress in it. I mean, C’mon, folks, I am just not buying that.
…and I am not here to slam Saatva. I am not unhappy with their mattress, I am just very suspicious of their business practices in touting that they are the best reviewed mattress on the Internet. I mean, do a search for Saatva reviews and some of the websites you encounter make it difficult to decipher whether an unbias opinion is being given or of the site is sanctioned by Saatva itself.
I am an audio guy. I can tell you what speakers are really good and which are not. I am certain every one of you have heard about Bose speakers. Of course you have. They spend an exorbitant amount of money to advertise themselves in magazines and the Internet. They are more about putting money into marketing to tell you they are the best speaker company out there, than putting that money into the product itself. I can assure you, Bose does not make good speakers. People just think they do because the name is everywhere.
That sort of worries me about Saatva. They tell you that you are saving money on mattresses because there are no stores and overhead fees. Yet, there has a been a lot of effort put into Internet awareness. They are spending a great deal of money, it seems, to get their name out there. That’s all well and good, but when you are selling a mattress for a lot less than everyone else, are you cutting corners in the product because all your money is going into advertising?
I can’t make that kind of accusation, but I think that aspect needs to be brought up.
I bought a Saatva mattress, because quite frankly, I think the two biggest crooks in retail are car and mattress salesmen. If you go buy a car or a mattress and you haven’t done your homework, you are going to get ripped off. Thing is, it’s far easier to do research on buying a car than it is a mattress. We all know that mattress retailers purposely change model numbers on the same mattress line so there can’t be any kind of comparison shopping. There is usually no way to tell if you are buying a great mattress or bottom-line.
I was actually very thankful that I found this forum and this particular thread started by Phoenix. While Saatva is touting their brand as the best luxury mattress out there, it seems that, according to Phoenix, they aren’t doing anything above and beyond what any other mattress company is doing. In fact, the materials they are putting into their mattress are not top-grade.
…but I knew that going in. I was just so sick of going to the mattress store and being lied to that I was willing to take a chance and buy into the “hype” that Saatva was selling knowing damn well that it would take a year or so until I knew exactly how well their mattress would hold up.
You see, Saatva encourages customers to write reviews and talk up the buying experience. No doubt, when you call Saatva, you are going to get their people treating you like royalty, writing you emails to see how your order is coming along, and following up after the sale. That is what any good company should be doing.
…but they want people to talk about the sales experience, and from most of the forum reviews I have read, that’s what you get and what the company touts itself upon. Do you know how many times I was told, “We are the best reviewed mattress company on the Internet.”? Well, true, they certainly get a lot of great reviews on the initial sales call.
What we don’t know is how great their mattresses really are compared to their claims.
Yeah, I am more or less happy with their mattress, but it doesn’t feel anything above and beyond any other new mattress I have bought in my lifetime. What I need to know is how many years that mattress is going to hold up before it starts to sag. Not much data out there on that when all you read about is reviews on the “sales experience.”
If what Phoenix has found in his teardown of their mattress is true, and I trust it is, then this could be a lower-grade mattress that Saatva is pushing as the best luxury mattress ever.
Wally,
As the Chief Marketing Officer of Saatva I wanted to respond to your concerns. We are one of the most transparent companies in the business; a case in point is our giving so much recently updated information to Phoenix, the moderator of this forum.
Firstly, I would like to address your first point in questioning our marketing spend and its impact on the product. Most of our exposure comes through search engine traffic, free visibility on consumer sites such as this one, and online advertising which is the most efficient form of spending. We have a well educated team of experts who make this process even more efficient. This allows us to keep our marketing spending far below retail competitors who must spend on radio and television, and inefficiently online.
For example, Mattress Firm in 2010 spent over $114M on marketing expenses, $80M on retail costs, $35M on general and admin expenses for a total of $230 Million. This compares to Mattress Firm only spending $180M on product during the same period. This means they spent more on marketing, sales costs, and retail stores than they did on actual product by a significant margin! Saatva is the opposite; our product costs significantly outweigh our marketing costs. Additionally, we have no showrooms or the myriad of expenses associated with showrooms such as rent, insurance, sales commissions, maintenance,etc. Instead we use these huge savings to invest directly into the product.
(Mattress Firm #shttp://www.nasdaq.com/markets/ipos/filing.ashx?filingid=7634663)
Secondly, I would like to clearly address your point regarding reviews. We always encourage our customers to write reviews because, frankly, we’re proud of our product and service. Every one of the third party sites we encourage users to post on monitors extensively for IP addresses, essentially making sure all of our reviews are published by real customers. Saatva owns no review sites, nor have we ever posted a false review. It would be absolutely detrimental to our business to do so, and its against everything we stand for.
We’re thrilled our customers are so positive and we will continue to do what it takes to make sure all of our customers are satisfied. Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.
Thanks,
Ricky Joshi
CMO
Saatva Luxury Mattress
Phoenix, I’m so glad that I just now read your latest analysis of Saatva. (https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/saatva-mattress-review-and-analysis) Now I think I’m more ready to go to our small mattress store local to our area with an open mind, knowing that Saatva is not perfect and not necessarily the direction we want to go in.
Thanks for your insights.
Why can;t these mattress companies give straight answers? intentional or not, It all seems to be confusing buyers
all we need is good product at reasonable price. Is this so hard for them to provide?
Hi needhelp,
I agree with you and of course one of the major reasons for this site is to help consumers find the manufacturers and retailers that do exactly that
Phoenix
Well I’m joining this thread late but it is essential to respond. I also had the dealings with Ed Brians EVP on the AOL address and I have some far fetched emails if anyone wishes to read them. As far as I can tell he is the guy that puts the flames out when it comes to reputation issues. he is the review police so to speak. that is how I came to know him. I posted what I called an honest review of my Saatva experience which started as a poor delivery experience, I was immediately contacted by Ed I thought because he was concerned about my terrible “white glove” experience but not the case. In fact it was only to and I don’t want to say “threaten” but let’s call it “bully” me into changing and deleting posts on various review sites which actually came down to a monetary offer. essentially it was, take the money keep the bed that I was trying to return and forget I know them which meant no warranty or any further claims. how convenient for them. I have more that I will post below.
As for the review of my Saatva experience is not a simple one and it spans a period of 4 months. Like everyone I was frustrated with the BS and the choices out there. I had purchased a Simmons plush that I hated right off. way too soft after coming off a 4x firm. I found the Saatva website and studied it for a week before purchasing the luxury firm and just after ordering I learned that they don’t manufacture them they design it and market it only, then to find out that they use some 17 or so different builders across the states. I wondered how that works but I figured with that 30 day guarantee I was ok. guess again! well after 2 weeks we decided it was too soft for us and it was impossible to get a good night’s sleep. it slept hotter than I like and it wiggled so much when I moved that it made me dizzy at times. I contacted them for removal and in the interim I was getting messages on my phone from an Ed Brians so I called him to see about that only to learn he was pissed about some reviews I posted well that threw the kink in my return possibility as we exchanged some ugly words on the phone because I figured later he would not have put that stuff in writing. he was pushy and threatening and trying to sound like a friend all in the same conversation in effort to get me to change my reviews or delete them. I was advised never to review his product again and if so I was to submit it to him only! so as this process took about a week to resolve including an offer to send me cash and keep the bed and walk away. we agreed that they would pick up the bed and send us a “firm” model hoping that it would be more comfortable to our taste. in the meanwhile someone had my reviews removed from the review sites and I don’t know how, but one, and they evidently would not capitulate. the replacement bed arrived about a month later this one made in NC by a small private label company as opposed to MI where the first one was made by a company in the biz for a 100 years, that bed appeared to be well made. the second bed was anything but quality. honestly in my opinion it looked and felt like a $400 mattress, it was sagging when they layed it down. it was buckling over when they stood it on edge in the hallway and thought, this is firm? well what it looked to me and I’m no specialist to be the same bed without the comfort layers the same exact height foam edge but the top was below the surface of the edges. it was like laying in a hammock. the top cover was loose so it puckered up up when you pushed your hands across it and I mean a lot. I have pictures of this big bubble of fabric sticking up after I got off of it. ridiculous. I was furious and emailed him immediately and that set him off foul again at me. evidently I offended him with my opinion of it. my point was how do you know what this bed is, you didn’t make it and you haven’t seen it yet you insist it is perfect and I am full of crap. this guy is a thousand miles away from this bed and where it was made how can you control quality like that? you can’t. so now I’m screwed I paid $1800 for this king set and now have the crappiest bed ever at least the first one appeared well made just not my taste in comfort. I put in for a refund with Richard but it was blocked and so round and round we went with Ed again so finally after about 2 more weeks of negotiating we arrived at a settlement less than what I hoped for. if I remove the review that he couldn’t and take said amount of money he would send me the first bed the luxury firm and I was to furnish him with a new review which he would modify to his taste and post. I agreed out of a need for self preservation, I sold out! so the bed arrived again after another week or so and it was filthy from being slid down the bed of the truck unprotected. I called him and asked for more money for cleaning it was pitiful. well I slept on it for a week or so and that was all I could do. I was having health problems through the whole period of this fiasco of 2 1/2 months, waking with headaches, groggy, fuzzy headed dizzy spells. I ended up in the emergency room one morning with what was diagnosed as benign something vertigo, never had that before, swollen sinuses, I felt like I had the flu for 2 1/2 months spent thousands with doctors trying to figure it out, well after sleeping in the other room on an air mattress for a week the symptoms subsided not a 100% but enough to determine that it was an allergic reaction to the bed. I notified Ed with this finding and of course it meant nothing to him and did not care. I finally asked him to remove the bed and send me some money. his response was only if I agree to donate the bed to charity he would send me a last and final payment and we would be done. he said they donate many of these each year. I asked if he wanted the receipt he said most arrogantly " I don’t want the write off and I don’t need the write off" so I agreed to donate it and the money never came as agreed. after a almost 3 weeks I emailed him with the particulars of the donation and he was pleased that I did and said “it is good to give” and " we should give until it hurts" . so a couple more days still no money and I email again with it hurts too much so maybe when the check arrives it won’t anymore. he got snotty with me and within 3 days I had a check…yup…for $200. what real man he is! give 'til it hurts means as long as it’s not him! he did not mind donating my money, but never disclosing to me how much he would give I assumed it would be closer to the purchase price less shipping and handling. never assume when dealing with this company. so now I am reviewing the experience honestly and he will not be able to do anything about it and hopefully other good people will not get hurt the way I did. so now I have a new bed that I am not allergic to but I have to pay another $1700. for it. so a very expensive ordeal for me over $10,000. including medical. so “caveat emptor” hope you find it helpful.
1 Like
Wow. Reading these responses I am determined never to deal with Saatva again.
I had to speak with Ed as well. He was more accommodating towards my problems, but you could definitely tell there was a very bullish attitude about him with his constant reminder, “We are the best reviewed mattress company on the Internet.”
Well, Ed, if you are bullying buyers into changing their reviews then I suppose you are going to remain the best reviewed mattress company on the Internet.
As I stated in my original post, many of those reviews sound phony to me. Way over the top. Besides, it’s impossible to judge the quality of a mattress just after purchasing it. Time is always a factor when it comes to long-term durability. Most all the reviews written are done so immediately after delivery, which Saatva encourages on the phone when ordering.
I am now approx. a one year owner of a Saatva mattress. To me, it’s no better than any other mattress. Still a matter of time to see if it lasts a good couple of years or not.