Thanks for the quick reply and I will definately check in to the sites you mentioned in the post. I have potentially found a local dealer for Dutch Craft right here in Cape Girardeau! (63701). Oak Tree Furniture is the name of the place. I havent had a chance to visit the store yet, hours are from 12 pm - 5 pm. Any advice of particular mattresses from Dutch Craft??
Hi mgdunaway,
Dutch Craft is a smaller manufacturer based in Celina, TN and these types of smaller manufacturers ⌠especially if they are local and can ship to a local for a reasonable cost ⌠will often have better quality and value.
Any advice or comments I could make about any particular mattress would depend on the type of materials you prefer and on knowing the specific details of a mattress that attracted you but I would certainly include them in your research. Although the Dutch Craft website doesnât list any detailed specifics of their mattresses, they do make a wide range of models using some high quality materials and depending on the models that Oak Tree Furniture carried (they donât list any details on their site) they would give you a chance to test out different types and styles of mattresses. The overviews in the mattresses section of the site has some good information about the different materials that are used in comfort and support layers and they may help you ask better questions and make more sense of the answers you are given.
If you have more questions along the way ⌠including about specific mattresses that you have tested and like (as long as you have the layer specs on can link to them online) ⌠donât hesitate to ask 
Phoenix
Pheonix,
I CANNOT thank you enough for the support and knowledge your mattress forum offers. I would be utterly lost in mattress shopping without the âsmartsâ I have picked up here. Come to find out Oak Tree Furniture does not carry Dutch Craft anymore, but thatâs ok because I have kept hunting for the perfect mattress and I believe I have found the one that has the best bang for the buck. It is the Ultimate Dreams mattress sold on Amazon. It almost seems to good to be true. I dont like the fact that I canât lay on the mattress before I purchase it but I believe I have tested out enough here in town to know that my wife and I like a softer mattress. I am 6â 190 pounds and I am more of a back sleeper but I also like to sleep on my side from time to time. My wife is 5â4" ~120 pounds and she is more of a side sleeper. I am 27 years old and already have some lower back tightness/pain due to 4 years of college football and tight hamstrings. I really like the idea that the latex support core is supposed to be really good at âliftingâ the larger spaces, such as my lumbar. I called and spoke with Chuck today and he said the default numbe they go with is 6. If we like a softer mattress he would recommend a 7. My only concern is getting a mattress that is TOO soft but with the good support layer in these mattresses do you think that should even be a concern? The only thing that is holding up finally pulling the trigger is trying to convince the ole wifey to go to a King!
Again I thank you all for making this site what it is. Keep it up and bring the consumer more knowledge.
(P.S. I called down to Royal Bedding down in Birmingham and spoke with Tomâs wife (could not have been nicer!). I RREEAAALLYY like the latex mattress that you were able to be a part of developing but at 2100 for a queen⌠just a little out of our price range. Sorry if this post is in the wrong section, but for everyone looking at or laying on a Optimum, I hope to write a comparison once I finally pull the trigger on the Ultimate Dreams. )
Mark
Hi mgdunaway,
Thatâs unfortunate about the Dutch Craft but as you probably know, Brooklyn Bedding (the âparentâ of the Dreamfoam brand) is a member of this site and I think very highly of them. Of course the members here also get the âperkâ of getting a free shredded latex pillow with their order.
Part of the risk of any online order of course is that you canât actually lay on the mattress and there is no refund in this case (which brings the prices down) but the risk is offset because they can customize the firmness level of the latex in the mattress for your needs and preferences and they are also good at getting it right at least based on âaveragesâ most of the time. There is lots more posts and threads that talk about them in the forum and a search on Ultimate Dreams (you can click the link) will bring up lots more information and the choices that different people have made.
The mattress has a 3" comfort layer and a 1.5" quilting layer so if you were to choose too soft then it would increase the risk of sleeping in a less aligned position but because of the resilience and âsag factorâ of latex ⌠the risk is less than with other materials. Side sleepers generally do well with softer materials but back and especially stomach sleepers would do best with firmer to prevent âhammockingâ . Heavier weights also generally need and prefer firmer materials. The polyfoam base layer is high quality and is a good support layer. The thickness/softness of the top latex comfort layers (the layers on top are not support layers) are for pressure relief and for âfilling in the gapsâ to provide more gentle support for the gaps in the sleeping position. The deeper polyfoam support layer is to âstopâ any unnecessary sinking in of the heavier parts of the body which is the primary cause of lower back pain.
Rather than get too involved in technical specs though ⌠Chuck has much more experience with this specific mattress and your general preferences and experiences on any mattresses you have tested (especially that use latex in the comfort layer) will help him narrow down the best choice for you. Without this ⌠they will tend to make recommendations based on âaveragesâ which most people with your body type and sleeping style would prefer.
They are the âexpertâ in making your best selection (and they are good at it) because they know every detail and every specific of the mattress and how all the layers interact and they also have a growing database of customers that may be similar to you which gives them the experience with this specific mattress to help you much better than what I call âtheory at a distanceâ based on specs alone.
One final note is that itâs always easier to âfixâ a mattress that is too firm by adding a softer layer or topper than it is to firm up a mattress that is too soft for good support and alignment but of course the ideal id to get it right in the first place.
I wasnât so much a part of actually developing it as much as giving him some thoughts and feedback about his ideas along the way. It was his âbabyâ all the way and it was great to have a ringside seat and watch the project unfold as he developed, prototyped, and tested it until it was on the floor. Itâs a really nice two sided mattress and includes a foundation and was designed to appeal to a wide variety of people. Itâs great quality and value and I only wish I had the chance to personally test it. Maybe one day when I happen to be âpassing byâ
Hope this helps
Phoenix
Hello Pheonix,
My name is Joslin and I live in the Huntsville, Alabama area. I am also in the market for a new mattress, but the search can be so overwhelming. I also looked into and layed on the Optimum Radiance and really liked it. However after finding this site, Iâm at a loss all over again. Can you tell me if there are any recommended retailers in my area?
Thank you,
Joslin
Hi Hendricks,
As you probably know from reading the site ⌠I normally recommend finding the best outlets before finding the best mattress. Post #2 here lists the closest factory direct manufacturers to you and also lists some of the better options that are in the Huntsville area.
Finding better outlets first can take a lot of the frustration and uncertainty out of mattress shopping and also helps you find the outlets that help to educate more than sell and can better âfitâ you to the mattress that you need and prefer.
Hope this helps and if you have more questions along the way donât hesitate to post them.
Phoenix
Went ahead and ordered the latex mattress from Ultimate Dreams!! Chuck could not have been more helpful! We went with a firmness of 7. I will be sure to let you all know how my wife and I feel about the mattress once we have slept on it for a couple nights. Slated to be delivered Thursday, and I also ordered a foundation from Campbell Mattress Co. here in Cape Girardeau (only $132) to make sure we have the best experience possible.
Oh and chuck let me know that in a couple weeks they are going to be releasing another line of mattresses that will feature the option of a detachable latex layer. So if you order a certain firmness that doesnât suit you, one will be able to exchange just that layer without having to ship the entire mattress. Pretty darn cool
Hi mgdunaway,
Congratulations on your new mattress
Iâm looking forward to your feedback ⌠and way to go on sourcing the foundation as well.
It will be interesting to see the details of the new mattresses they are making too. The choices keep getting better!
Thanks again for your feedback.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I too was thinking of going Optimum or Tempur-Pedic but now you have me concerned. Iâve been using a memory foam topper on top of a pretty crappy bed for about a year and would like to go with a memory foam. The Optimum interested me do to the cooling properties advertised. Could you please tell me where to go look near Aiken, SC.
Thank you
Hi Rhoden,
You have good reason to be concerned with the quality and value of a major brand.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of great options in your immediate area but there are a couple of factory direct manufacturers that are a bit of a drive away in the Columbia area that I would consider including in your research and may be worth the time it takes to visit them âŚ
http://www.bestmattress.net/mattress-products.cfm West Columbia, SC. Factory direct manufacturer in West Columbia. they make latex, memory foam, and innerspring mattresses.
http://www.southernbeddingofcolumbia.com/ Columbia, SC. Factory direct manufacturer. Also make a range of different mattresses including innersprings and latex.
http://www.restmaster.com/ Local manufacturer that used to be wholesale only and makes mainly traditional mattresses (layers of polyfoam over innersprings) including one and two sided mattresses and a memory foam mattress as well. They now have their own factory direct showroom in North Augusta, SC.
Some of the local âpossibilitiesâ in the Augusta, GA / Aiken, SC area (out of about 40 stores that I looked at in the area) and the manufacturers that they carry that may be worth considering (subject to whether they can provide you with the specifics of the materials inside their mattress) include âŚ
http://mattressman1.com/ Augusta, Martinez, GA. Aiken, SC. Southerland. They used to carry Pure Latex Bliss but they are no longer listed in their site so you may wish to call and see if they still carry them.
http://www.davisapplianceaugusta.com/our-brands/ Augusta, GA. Symbol
http://www.ashleysonmain.com/ New Ellenton, SC. Park Place
http://www.yelp.com/biz/southern-furniture-mattress-and-appliances-thomson Thomson, GA. Posturecraft, Therapedic
http://www.capitalfurniture.com/ Waynesboro, GA. Jamison
I would call these first to confirm they are transparent about the materials in their mattresses and to make sure they carry the type of mattresses you are interested in testing before paying them a visit.
Other than this ⌠the mattress shopping tutorial includes this link to a list of some of the better online memory foam options Iâm aware of (and several other links to lists of some of the better online options Iâm aware of as well other than just memory foam mattresses).
Hope this helps
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
We are looking into purchasing the Sealy Optimum as well.
Any suggestions for retail outlets in Warwick, RI area?
Thank you!
Hi KJ,
The closest factory directs to you going north or east are in Post #2 here. There are some good choices in reasonable driving distance. I would call the ones that are closest to you first and talk to them about your preferences of materials and mattresses you have liked and ask what they make that may be suitable. If the call sounds promising, I would take the drive. There is no doubt the quality and value would be much better with any of the manufacturers on the list and they would likely save you a lot of time and frustration as well trying to sort through all the marketing information in the mainstream brands and stores and the frustration that goes with not being able to find any meaningful information that relates to the real quality/durability of these mattresses. Post #2 here has some links with feedback about many of the manufacturers listed.
Going west into Connecticut you also have some good choices but they are a little further away. They are listed in post #2 here. A forum search on âConnecticutâ (clickable) will also bring up some posts with feedback about these as well.
Overall ⌠I would tend to north/east.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix, I was wondering if you could help me find some local mattress retailers in the Milwaukee area?
Also, I have severe lower back pain from a skiing injury years ago, should I go with a firmer mattress like the Destiny or a softer one? I tested out the Destiny in a store a few days ago and really liked the way it felt, but Iâm curious to get your opinion as you definitely seem to know your stuff.
Thanks!
Hello, I have reviewed your posts above. We went to Mattress Firm today try out memory foam beds. We are both side sleepers and fell in love with the feel of the Sealy Optimum Inspiration bed. I saw you are recommending that people contact local manufacturers instead of large brand names for the best value. Can you suggest some places to try in Raleigh NC?
Thank you
Anna
Hi itschris917,
You have some great options in the general Milwaukee area and two of our manufacturing members are also within reasonable driving distance. They are included in post #2 here.
What I would suggest is that you make a list of the features that you need and prefer in a mattress and ârateâ each mattress (say on a subjective scale of 1 - 5) against your needs and the preferences that are most important to you.
What you need:
This is about the two main functions of every mattress. They are âŚ
Pressure relief in all your sleeping positions and in all the pressure points of your body (most commonly hips and shoulders) ⌠especially on your side if this is one of your sleeping positions.
Posture and alignment in all your sleeping positions. This is about making sure that your spine is in its neutral alignment when you are completely relaxed on the mattress (which would normally involve at least 15 minutes on the mattress to âsimulateâ the pre-sleep state when your muscles âlet goâ).
There are links to more information in step 4 the tutorial post about testing a mattress for support/alignment and comfort/pressure relief.
What you prefer:
This is about all the many preferences that are more or less important to different people and that are part of your personal âvalue equationâ. The most common of these (among others that may be important to different people) include âŚ
Microclimate, breathability and temperature control (perhaps the most important of the preferences). You can read more about the factors involved in temperature regulation here and more about microclimate here.
Slow or fast response materials and where in the range you prefer
Sleeping âonâ vs âinâ the mattress
Motion isolation with small and large movements
The ease of movement or movement restriction on the mattress for changing position and âother activitiesâ
Edge support for those who sit or sleep on the edge of a mattress
âRoll togetherâ for those who sleep close together in the center of a mattress
Overall âfeelâ (such as the difference between combinations that include the âfeelâ of innersprings and/or different types of foam in the comfort or support layers)
Durability of materials in the mattress
Durability of construction (such as one or two sided)
Quality and performance of materials and construction
Ability to open the mattress and exchange layers or make changes after purchase
Warranty and warranty exclusions (which are often more important then the warranty itself). You can read more about mattress warranties here.
Budget limitations and range
Price vs quality and âcommodityâ value of materials
Mattress only or foundation included (and the type)
Natural materials vs synthetic
The type of cover and quilting (if any) you prefer
Your choice of retailer or manufacturer:
This part of a consumers preferences and âvalueâ is about the differences between buying from different retailers or manufacturers whether they are local or online. Who you buy from can in many cases be just as important as what you buy and are part of the overall value of your purchase. The ability to test a mattress in person for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) for example can be important ⌠especially if it is done with the help of someone with the knowledge, experience, and integrity to help you make your best choices ⌠and some of the many other objective and intangible benefits that each retailer offers can make a significant difference in long term satisfaction with your choice.
The different âvalue addedâ options that go with the mattress (delivery, financing, bonuses like pillows or a protector etc).
Options after purchase (returns, comfort exchanges, layer exchanges, warranty returns, adjustments, after sale service etc. and the specific costs and procedures involved with each). This also means that if you arenât confident that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP that you have some good options remaining in either a softer or firmer range and arenât âstuckâ with a mattress that doesnât work well for you with few good quality/value options available to exchange for.
The knowledge and service of the outlet you buy from and their ability to help you choose a mattress that is suitable for your specific and unique needs and preferences.
The importance of supporting a particular retailer or manufacturer (for any other reasons that are important to you)
These and others could all be part of each personâs value equation and the importance of each of them (except your two basic needs) may be different for different people. Some of these are easily overlooked and may only become an âissueâ at some point after you have purchased the mattress. It always makes sense to think about all of them ahead of time.
I would suggest that you measure every potential mattress purchase against these needs and preferences (or the ones that are important to you) so that you have a common yardstick to measure every mattress against. This is much more effective than trying to set any particular mattress as a âstandardâ and trying to âmatchâ what are often more vague (or difficult to objectify or accurately remember) subjective impressions as your point of reference. You can read more about âmatchingâ one mattress to another in post #9 here and the other posts it links to.
This will help you make more meaningful comparisons and find much better quality and value and will increase the odds that your choice will be as good in real life and the long term as it seemed in the showroom or online.
Calling each of the manufacturers or retailers first with some good questions or information about what you have already tested and what is important to you will help you find out what they offer that may be in line with what you are looking for and your conversation can also give you a sense of what to expect and the knowledge and service of the outlet if you decide to visit them. In most cases ⌠a first step that includes the choices of outlet and knowing what is most important (for you) in a mattress can be a bigger part of both short and long term success than choosing the mattress itself.
Hope this helps
Phoenix
Hello! Name is Chris and just stumbled across this website to get the best out of the my new Mattress. Phoenix seems you really know your stuff and now Iâm a little concerned, because I just picked up a full size Sealy Optimum Destiny. What your input and feedback on this mattress? When I went, I liked how the bed felt and after trying others I went with this one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Hi Primetime,
You asked ⌠but Iâm not sure you will like the answer 
Unfortunately there is no way to know (yet) about some of the specifics about the quality of the Optimum because Sealy doesnât provide much of the information about the quality of the foams that are in it. Like with furniture when you are comparing similar pieces that use particle board covered with veneer, MDF or other higher quality materials also covered with veneer, or real wood ⌠lower quality products can have the same function and look as higher quality products but are not as durable and wonât keep their performance or look for nearly as long.
In general ⌠the major brands use lower quality and value materials in their mattresses in every budget range and use marketing methods that are more about stories and advertising than they are about providing the type of information that consumers need to make more meaningful comparisons and better value choices.
In almost all cases ⌠factory direct local manufacturers or local sleep shops that carry more local, regional, or independent brands will sell mattresses that use better quality materials and will last much longer than anything comparable made by the larger manufacturers. While low quality and high quality materials may have a similar âfeelâ and in some cases similar performance in the highly managed environment of a typical chain store or mass market outlet ⌠the lower quality materials that replicate the feel and performance of higher quality mattresses will not last nearly as long. Warranties (which are mostly a marketing tool) donât cover the loss of comfort and support which is the main reason that a mattress needs to be replaced because these materials are designed so that any permanent impressions wonât go beyond the warranty exclusion regardless of the amount of softening. Mass market outlets also donât generally have the skill or knowledge to help people make their best long term choices and depend on marketing âstoriesâ and âfake salesâ and many other techniques to sell their mattresses while telling people very little about the real quality of the materials in their mattresses.
So unfortunately you have purchased a âunknownâ quality mattress which would take some digging to find out the real quality of some of the main materials in it. One thing that is known for certain is the name on the label on the mattress and this is one of the biggest reasons people buy them. This name (and other major brands) is a license to sell products that have lower quality and value hiding behind marketing stories, advertising copy, and sales techniques.
The main product of the larger manufacturers is not so much mattresses but âprofit marginâ and this âproductâ is sold to their main customers which are chain stores and mass market outlets that depend on this to feed the many mouths of a much longer supply chain and infrastructure. They are mostly âresponsibleâ to shareholders and investment groups that demand a return on their investment and their research is mostly centered on ways that they can fabricate or design cheaper lower quality materials to feel and perform like higher quality materials ⌠at least in a showroom. Local manufacturers or better sleep shops that are privately or family owned are responsible to their customers and reputation for long term quality and value and spend little on advertising. Their reputation over generations sells their mattresses for those fortunate enough to know about them.
As a case in point you can look at the Optimum line itself.
The basic Destiny model includes âŚ
Quilt - Top of Mattress contains outlast: Outlast is one of many cooling technologies that are used in mattress covers and some type of cooling cover is part of most memory foam mattresses. Nothing particularly unique here.
2" OptiCool Gel Memory Foam Featuring Outlast Technology: This is a 3.7 lb gel memory foam which is on the lower end of the memory foam quality/durability range (NOTE: Jordans here lists this as a 2.5 lb memory foam which would make it worse yet). It is infused with outlast microcapsules which is one of many cooling technologies used in memory foams. Nothing particularly special here except that the density of the gel foam is low and it has particulates added to it.
Comfort - Padding Layers
1" OptiSense Memory Foam: which is a 4 lb density regular memory foam or âmid qualityâ.
Correct Back Support System
6" Sealy OptiCore: This contains 2" of 1.5 lb 20 ILD polyfoam over 4" of 1.5 lb 32 ILD polyfoam which is lower quality/density foam for this budget range (although some other higher budget mattresses also use it in some of their mattresses including Tempurpedic).
1.5 lb foam is usually the quality of support foam that is used in lower budget mattresses and isnât really a desirable density for a mid budget mattress much less a higher budget mattress (thanks to Jordans for the specs of the cores used in the Optimum lineup here).
So the lowest level Optimum Destiny is a very basic 6" base + 3" memory foam mattress with 3" of memory foam made up of 2" Opticool and 1" of 4 lb Optisense" memory foam with some gel cooling technology in the top layer of memory foam, a cover with some cooling technology, and a base layer that uses inferior density foam that should only be used in much lower quality mattresses. This base model is already overpriced IMO ⌠especially for a mattress where the quality and durability of the memory foam materials need to be taken on faith alone and is produced by a company which makes low value mattresses throughout their lineup.
If you look here you see will what happens as the models go âup the lineâ from the already overpriced Destiny base model.
All the models are similar in basic construction (memory foam over a polyfoam base) except that the Optisense memory foam used in each model up is an inch thicker. The Vibrant may also use a higher density memory foam in the mix to create a different feel and performance. Once you reach the middle of the lineup ⌠the basic support core is replaced with a different multi density support core which is higher quality and made up as follows âŚ
Sealy multidensity Opticore Plus: Top Layer - 2.5" Convoluted Foam 2.2 LB 32 ILD, Middle Layer-5/8" Foam 1.5 LB 32 ILD, Bottom Layer-3" Convoluted Foam 2.2 LB 32 ILD, 3" Full perimeter foam edge 68 ILD. This fabricated core creates a different feel and also adds a firmer foam on the edges for edge support.
So the basic differences are that each model up adds another inch (1") in total of OptiSense memory foam layers under the 2" of 3.7 lb Opticool gel memory foam and from the middle of the lineup (The inspiration) the basic polyfoam core is replaced with the multi density Opticore.
The extra inch of memory foam carries some hefty price jumps as you move up from the entry level Destiny (1" of OptiSense $1074 queen size).
Destiny + $400 = Radiance which has 2" of the 4 lb OptiSense memory foam
Radiance + $300 = Inspiration which has 3" of the 4 lb OptiSense layering plus the multi density Opticore.
Inspiration + $500 = Vibrant which has 4" of the 4 lb OptiSense layering with the possibility that part of this 4" uses a higher density/quality memory foam to give it greater firmness (no retailer has been able to confirm the density in this model)
Vibrant + $500 = Elation which has 5" of the OptiSense layering and is the softest model of the lineup.
The only other differences are the slight variations in the design of the cover.
While there is a difference in cost between lower density memory foam and higher density memory foam and between a higher quality/density core and a lower quality one ⌠the entry level model is already overpriced and it is very unlikely that between $300 - $500 an inch extra can be justified no matter what the differences are for each model but particularly for an extra inch where the differences are unknown. Basically from the base model to the top model you are paying $1700 for 4" more memory foam of a possible different mix of unknown densities, a better support core in the top 3 models, and a slight difference in cover design. The numbers speak for themselves.
All of these are overpriced although the middle of the line where the higher quality base is added may represent the best value of a low value lineup. This value of course is only relative to the rest of the lineup ⌠not to other similar mattresses ⌠and would only make a difference if this particular mattress âfitâ the needs and preferences of a particular person in terms of pressure relief and alignment.
As more of the âunknownsâ come to light ⌠I will add to the specs here but already this is just another in a long line of major brand mattresses that are either unknown or lower quality and poor value mattresses that are nicely packaged in marketing stories used to justify higher profit margins and prices.
This is exactly why I generally recommend to avoid all major brands. You will find the same type of âvalueâ in all of them as they work hard to increase profit margins by selling stories rather than quality materials.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix could you provide me with some good shops in my area so I can go and check them out⌠I live in Orange County CA 90631
Hi Primetime,
The Los Angeles list is in post #2 here.
I would suggest some preliminary phone calls first to describe the general type of mattress you are looking for. I never visit any outlet ⌠even if they are right next door ⌠until I have talked to them first to get a sense of what they offer and the level of service and knowledge of the outlet. Half an hour on the phone can save you a hours of testing time. For example you would be looking for memory foam that was on the cooler side of the memory foam range if you are committed to the feel of the actual material itself rather than just liking a particular mattress (such as the Optimum) but could also be happy on other materials that offered similar pressure relief, support, and preferences of âfeelâ. This will not only save you a lot of time but will give you a good sense of who to visit that may have mattresses you want to try and what to expect when you go there.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Can you point me in the direction of reputable local manufacterers in and around Nashville, TN please? I had no luck in the Hunstville, Al area. Thanks for your help.