Select Foam Grandis-HD Ongoing Review

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

BEFORE DRAWING ANY CONCLUSIONS ON THE GRANDIS-HD OR SELECTFOAM, THIS ENTIRE THREAD SHOULD BE READ AS MY COMFORT ON THE GRANDIS AND MY INTERACTIONS WITH SELECTFOAM ARE AN EVOLVING PROCESS

We’re coming up on about 2 weeks of usage and I’ll break this down into categories that seem to be most asked about; if you want me to address any other areas of the mattress, please ask. Things to know about me: 165 lbs, back/side sleeper, intermittent lower and mid back pain. I am not reviewing the company itself in this series of reviews until my trial is up and, should I decide to return it, want to include how well that is handled. If kept, my company review will handle how purchases and conversations prior to ownership and during ownership went.

The Select Foam Grandis-HD is a Tempurpedic GrandBed competitor featuring (informed by Phoenix) Certipur foam.
(verbally informed by SelectFoam) it features:

  • Foam from Premier Foam
  • No VOCs, but also informed at a different time that it has the lowest level of VOCs of any mattress they know of
  • Wool layer as a flame retardant
  • Cotton ticking

I notice now that while some of those specifications remain unlisted/incorrect on the website, and that further specs of the mattress I purchased have changed and I am uncertain of which “model” I may have gotten. The bed I purchased was supposed to be(corrected by evidence that my memory is lacking; see the 4th post for further explanation):

  • [strike]2" comfort layer 8lb memory foam
    2" layer of 8lb memory foam[/strike]
  • 3" layer of 8lb memory foam
  • 2" support layer of 5.3lb memory foam

The bed alterations on the website include:

  • 3" comfort layer 7.2lb memory foam
  • 2" support layer 5.3lb memory foam

The new construction reduces memory foam layers by 1" (assumed to be made up in polyfoam in the base since the height of the mattress remains the same) as well as a loss in memory foam density in the top layers. I will try to ascertain the build of my mattress tonight.

REVIEW:

DELIVERY:
Delivery was performed by YRC and went well; they called, scheduled, and delivered in their time frame including giving a courtesy call when a half hour out as requested by me. From purchase to delivery took about 3 weeks and Peter at SelectFoam informed me they were building my mattress. It sounds like they don’t keep any excess stock to keep down overhead. Shipping weight with the pallet was 250lbs. Weight of the mattress was quite a bit less and even less than the 170lbs SelectFoam informed me about when I asked about getting it upstairs. I have no means with which to properly weigh it. It was protected by many smaller boxes taped and plastic tied together then strapped to the pallet. The mattress was further protected by industrial very large black plastic bags (2).

ODOR:
The odor the first night was very pungent. It was a very heavy chemical odor normally associated with viscoelastic foam. The pungent odor continued for several days despite disrobing the mattress and leaving the windows open during the day and air purifier on during the night. At almost 2 weeks the odor still exists and if the room is left closed up (like this past weekend while I was away), it smells like day-old paint. The first night I awoke several times with a dry throat that I attributed to the chemicals suffusing the room. I found this surprising for a product that should have such low or no Volatile Organic Compounds although odors do not necessarily correspond with VOCs.

COMFORT:
The mattress is advertised as “Medium - Soft” and is a subjective rating. I was prepared for the mattress to have a firm feeling the first day due to being on the truck and accumulating the cooler air that is circulating in the Northeast. I was also prepared for it to feel firmer on those cold days that I continued to air it out due to the smell. Even so it did feel firmer than I was expecting; certainly more so than my previous Dynasty Mattress Grandbed competitor. I found that sleeping on my back resulted in no back pain, however, I am unable to maintain that position throughout the night and switch to my side at 3:30AM. Sleeping on my side resulted in back pain and appeared to be caused by not enough “give” in the mattress at my shoulder area. The mattress was too resilient or too firm against my shoulders not allowing them to sink in enough to align my spine correctly which is resulting in back pain. When sleeping on my back this issue isn’t present since the weight of my shoulders is spread out over the width of my body instead of being concentrated into a smaller area. For such a luxury mattress I thought I would feel like I was waking up in a Hilton on vacation (you know that feeling) but instead have awoken many times during the night and get out of bed tired and sometimes with back pain. The second week I had to result to sleep aids to get some rest. I’m willing to give the mattress more “break-in” time since it hasn’t been long and it is a higher density foam.

HEAT RETENTION:
SelectFoam attempts to offset some of the natural heat retention of memory foam by using gel-infused memory foam like many manufacturers now. They also include air channels in the polyfoam layers. This does work to an extent and I’ve found this foam to trap less of my heat than previous foams that don’t employ such tactics, however, you will still experience some heat retention. If heat retention in memory foam is a big issue for you, I am not certain the inclusion of gel will be enough to offset it for you. Unfortunately it isn’t summer so I can’t judge how well this works in the warmest conditions.

This review is ongoing and will be updated after some time has passed with my further opinions and observations. If you want me to check/test for anything, please let me know in the thread.

2

Hi GrandMasterJ,

Nice review. I’m curious about the no VOC claim… And it sounds like subsequent modification to a ‘lowest’ voc’s claim. Ignoring that it might be certified and viewed as generally safe… I’m pretty sure that all memory foam, which is polyurethane foam, has by definition voc’s.

I am not 100% positive on this, but certain enough I’d call BS on the sales person. I’d think it more true that it’s certified by certi-pur or some such as having little or no prohibited or dangerous voc’s…

I’d be skeptical on that, as it sounds you are. My understanding is this is one of the attractions of natural latex, but in fairness, even that might give off voc’s, but that they’re deemed safer somehow.

I’m going to have to go reread Phoenix’s posts on the matter myself now :wink:

3

Hi GrandmasterJ,

I’ll add my thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed review :0

I don’t think there is such a thing as a memory foam mattress that has no VOC’s although if the foam is CertiPur certified then it would certainly be true that the VOC’s would be within safe limits. Wool is also a very “safe” fire retardant material along with viscose / silica fire barriers.

I know that there has been several variations of the design and composition of the Grandis over time as they refined the design but I’ve never seen the one that has three 2" layers of memory foam so I’m not sure where those specs came from (although I may just not have seen them).

The current design is here and you can see some of the previous designs on the wayback machine here and here and here. I would suspect that if your order was recent that the current design is the one you have but they could probably confirm this for you. I do agree that their website sometimes includes conflicting information when they make changes to the design as one part is updated but another part may not be which can … and has … caused confusion.

The length of time and the amount of odor in a new mattress can vary from mattress to mattress and by different batches of foam from the manufacturer but in general they don’t last more than a few days and a few weeks is longer than normal. There are also some people that are more sensitive to the smell of memory foam than others or seem to react even to memory foam that has been CertiPur certified but this is not common. Some suggestions that may help are in post #3 here.

I think the only claim about VOC’s that would be truly valid with memory foam is that it has been CertiPur certified (and you can see the CertiPur standards here*) unless they have the specific test results available and provide them to their customers although there are some memory foams that have passed other more stringent testing protocols such as OekoTex (which is the testing protocol that is more usual for latex) although most of these tend to be memory foams that use an MDI polyol instead of the more common TDI polyol that is more common in North America.

ADMIN NOTE:*Always check CertiPur site for the latest guidelines available

If you find the mattress is too firm for you initially one of the suggestions that they will often make is removing the wool fire sock while the mattress is breaking in. Some of the suggestions in post #2 here may also be helpful.

Phoenix

4

Thanks for the input. The closest to what I could find was listed in the August 2013 Webarchive as 3" 8lb memory foam and 2" 5.3lb memory foam. According to my internet history, I first visited the Selectfoam site Sept. 16th 2013, so about a month after this:

It’s quite possible I am mistaken about the layering and it should be broken down in 3" 8lb and 2" 5.3lb and I’m recalling the other specs from the Aurora and and Regalis that I was looking at or even mixing them up. I’ve pulled up Sears which had a listing back when I was researching it and it appears they have not changed their page to the new specs and also list 3" 8lb and 2" 5.3lb. I am updating my original post to reflect these specifications as I must have misread/misremembered them and I’d like to keep this accurate.

http://www.sears.com/select-foam-grandis-hd-15inch-memory-foam-mattress/p-SPM3198065802P

Reposted to maintain accuracy:

  1. 15 inches total profile
  2. Medium-Soft Feel
  3. Gel-Eased Soy Blend Memory Foam
  4. Includes 3" of 8 Lb SELECT-HD layer for pressure relief
  5. Includes 2" of 5.3 Lb SELECT Support Layer
  6. Removable/Washable Cashmere Cover…

I’ve taken your advice and removed the removable cover to find that my mattress doesn’t meet the current specs OR the specs from August 2013 OR the Sears specs. My match is closest to these from Amazon’s SelectFoam listing here:

https://www.amazon.com/Select-Foam-Grandis-HD-Gel-Infused-Mattress/dp/B00BC5AVHO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383776614&sr=8-1&keywords=select+foam+grandis

Reposted to maintain accuracy:

  1. Includes 2 inch layer of SELECT-HD 8lb Gel-infused memory foam. open cell memory foam for a cool sleep and superior breathability and comfort and zippered and removable Cashmere Wool Cover with Microsuede borders.
  2. Comfort layer is made with 2 inch of 8-lb density SELECT-HD gel-infused memory foam and a support layer of 3 inches of 5.3-lb density SELECT foam.
  3. Plush feel mattress that provides superior pressure point relief; added support; reduced tossing and turning; eliminates motion transfer; conforms to body providing proper spinal alignment
  4. Lifetime Warranty. Made in the USA
  5. 90 Day at-Home Trial plus Free Shipping to US and Canada

Having taken the removable cover off, this is what I found:

2" high density slow-reacting memory foam. No gel infusion.
3" of heavily gel-infused memory foam. It is so quick reacting it behaves very similar to the polyfoam layer under it. It gives way under my finger with only the slightest “memory” reaction.
1.5" of polyfoam with an egg crate pattern facing down.
8.5" of base layer polyfoam.

Not exactly what I originally bought or thought I was getting…

As to VOCs, I’m looking at it like arsenic and mercury and other harmful substances found in our foods naturally. A little is harmless and quantity is what causes problems. Knowing the little I know about VOCs now, I realize that a claim of no VOCs in a memory foam mattress is not valid, but in this case I am repeating what was told to me via phone. A claim of “the lowest amount we/I know/heard of” can be misleading; you can be purposefully ignorant. I read that the FTC ruled against ReliefMart(Tempflow) for making a claim of no VOCs in their mattresses. Looks like 2 other companies got the same treatment.

I’ve attached photos of the layers and an attempt to show the reaction time of the two layers with a series of quick photos. It really doesn’t seem like the 3" 5.3lb gel-infused layer reacts very different from regular polyfoam.

hrm…can’t seem to attach photos… maybe it’s a Chrome thing…

EDIT: was a Chrome thing.

If you download the photos and click through them quickly, you can almost see the reaction in real-ish time. Sorry for the blurriness on the reaction time photos, but I figured it didn’t matter that much for what they were trying to show.

5

Hi GraqndmasterJ,

I’m not sure when the actual switch was from the 8 lb gel memory foam to the 7.2 lb memory foam was made but I would guess this would have been after they switched to using their 7.2 lb memory foam. Either way though … this wasn’t what was listed on their site when you placed the order.

This was probably the case because I don’t remember ever seeing a 3 x 2" construction in any of their iterations.

This sure seems to be the case to me as well and the pictures you listed certainly don’t match their website description. The total of memory foam is the same (5") and the response of the different types of memory foam would be typical (the 5.3 lb gel foam would be faster reacting than the 7.3 lb memory foam which would also be softer) but the layer thicknesses are reversed.

A “no” VOC claim is never accurate if the VOC’s are higher than background levels which was the basis of the FTC action (you can see more comments about this in this thread and post #4 here). I also believe that this should be removed from their site. They do use CertiPur certified foam and there is a wide range of odors that come from the same foams even from the same manufacturer but even CertiPur certified foams would still have some VOC’s … they are just lower than the testing protocol which for most people would be considered safe (although there are still some people that have symptoms even with foams that are certified).

I called Matt and had a conversation with him about the accuracy of their descriptions and told him that I think that their site needs to be checked for accuracy throughout and brought up to date and any incorrect information or discrepancies should to be corrected. He agreed of course that it does them more harm than good when there is a description that isn’t accurate and while it may have little effect on the “value” of the mattress (there would be little to no difference in the cost of the materials if your mattress was the same as what was listed) … it doesn’t inspire confidence and can easily create distrust. He also changed the description of the Grandis while we were on the phone although of course that doesn’t deal with your specific circumstances.

I hope you have the chance to call them and talk with them about the specs of the mattress you received vs what was on the site when you ordered it and how you feel about the difference because regardless of the “value” of the mattress you received and whether it’s better or worse than the description that was on the website in terms of either “value” or how it feels … it isn’t the same mattress as you ordered.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback.

Phoenix

6

I took the advice offered and removed the wool covering for sleeping. I must say, I DO love the feel of the 8lb slow reaction dense memory foam. It is a lot more along the “luxurious feeling” I was expecting originally. That layer of wool certainly changes the feel of things.

Having slept on the mattress without the wool cover I’ve reevaluated the reasons for difficulty with side sleeping. Having only the 2" of 8lb Memory foam means I sink down and compress less before I hit the more resilient 5.3lb support layer. What this seems to be doing is not allowing my shoulders to sink as far as they would need to to align my spine properly resulting in back pain whenever I try to side-sleep. I think that extra inch of comfort layer would have made a decently large impact on both side sleeping and “luxury feel.” All-in-all I would have preferred either the 3" 8lb memory foam that was advertised when I bought OR the 3" 7.2lb memory foam advertised now (I doubt you can feel a difference between the two) but not this odd unadvertised 2" 8lb memory foam that I seem to have gotten.

I took the sheets off this morning before work to wash and noticed something I hadn’t noticed two days back when I originally took off the wool cover:

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I can’t see this split or fracture when perpendicular to it, but I can when parallel. I’m not sure if I missed it originally or it happened in the last 2 days. It is about an inch in width and a half inch in depth (maybe a bit less, didn’t measure). I’ve never read of this happening before in my viscoelastic foam research, but I’ve never searched for this particular issue; what would cause it? Foam defect?

By the way, about their site accuracy, I did mention this to Juan in my very first phone call and told him it was the reason for my calling with all these questions. He assured me that their site was checked regularly and was accurate, but maybe there was one or two things that might not be correct and he would make sure it was looked at again.

7

Hi GrandmasterJ,

It’s actually the current listed configuration of the mattress (since Matt changed it when I called him) but it wasn’t when you purchased it of course. I guess the ultimate test is how you feel as the mattress breaks in and it will either be good for you or of course you could return it regardless of why you aren’t happy with the mattress. They believe the current design is closer to the “feel” and PPP of the Grandbed but not everyone will feel the same way.

The 2" tear looks like a tear to me and not a defect but of course I have no idea how it got there. It could have come from handling, a sharp object, during shipping, or from stretching that part of the layer beyond it’s elastic limit but it wouldn’t affect the feel and performance of the mattress and would only be cosmetic.

I think that the people in their customer service department that usually answer the phones may have been as surprised as you were that their website wasn’t correct and actually thought that the listed specs were correct. When I talked with Matt he told me that the GrandBed is the most difficult to “approximate” out of the Tempurpedic designs because of the differences in response between different types of memory foam and that 3" of their 8 lb memory foam would make the mattress softer than the GrandBed.

Either way … your own personal experience and how you feel after the break in and adjustment period will be the ultimate test.

Phoenix

8

Just a quick update:

Got my first night of decent sleep on the mattress. I really like the feel of the (I guess now I know) 7.2lb memory foam comfort layer. You sink in pretty well, so for people that don’t like that feeling, that’s not for them. To me it felt luxurious and comfortable and I enjoyed the feeling both pre and post sleep.

Haven’t had any issues with heat retention, for the most part, short of the heat kicking on while I’m still in bed and I still have several blankets on me. I did come from a memory foam bed that had greater heat retention that I just offset but removing top layers and it seemed to work okay for me. I don’t “sleep hot” as I’ve heard some people say.

The smell is still present. All day airing is no longer becoming an option due to the daily temperature here. I do have a decent (not incredible) sense of smell so maybe others wouldn’t notice it so readily. The smell doesn’t seem to have decreased much since the first week despite the airing; it has reduced from the level it was at the first few days.

I’ve worked with a few incompetent people and vendors in the Networking/I.T. field, but the level displayed by the people handling the SelectFoam website is inexcusable for any (hosting?) company. I’ll be blunt: they really should be fired. They are only hurting SelectFoam’s image negatively and, as a customer of SelectFoam, I can assure you they are hurting it quite a bit in the “trustworthy” department. I see now that specifications of the mattress are updated on the actual page to more closely reflect what I received, however details are still wrong. For instance, Peter had informed me prior to purchase that the cashmere cover was changed to cotton (forget if he said organic or not, I should’ve taken notes… I have notes from my Juan conversations, though) but the site still says cashmere. They are still incorrect when you search for the mattress, for instance, through the Bed Finder tool.

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I don’t think being softer than the Grandbed would have been a bad thing, nor do I think it would’ve been much softer, but I can only estimate based upon the product I have. I recall the Grandbed being decently soft in my testing. Besides the feel, my other concern with losing 1" of high density memory foam is the longevity and durability of the mattress. That was one of my shopping points as mentioned in previous posts and, I thought, a good argument to go for the most expensive mattress: 3" of 8lb quality memory foam should be hard to break down and last over a decade. This is, of course, an estimation on my part but I can’t help feeling like I’ve been cheated out of specification I used in my purchasing decision regardless of how I feel about the mattress currently. I got neither the 3" nor the 8lb dense memory foam (although, as mentioned previously, I wouldn’t be able to feel a difference between the 7.2lb and 8lb, most likely).

With the changes in the mattress construction constantly, the changes in the website specifications, the changes/omissions in verbal conversations with 2 customer services representatives, I feel like I’m dealing with a schizophrenic company. The product has been on the market years (I think Peter gave me a year of 2005? Maybe 2007?, once again I wish I took notes when speaking with him); how have the specifications not settled into a consistent build at this point?

As to the tear, it appears too jagged to be caused by a sharp object (and I’ve brought no sharp objects near the bed). I’ve only slept on the bed or laid on it to watch TV, so it’s hard to imagine how I may have stressed out the foam itself in that particular region. My biggest concern would be that it might start expanding. The protective plastic bags on the mattress and the wool covering both did not have puncture wounds and the mattress was strapped to a wooden pallet, so probably not a casualty of shipping in either sharp objects or stress.

I don’t want these posts to be all negative and I want to love this product. You don’t slap down over $2,000 if you didn’t plan on liking what you were buying! So I’ll end on the same positive note I started on about the comfort: I really did enjoy last night’s sleep and I look forward to tonight’s.

9

Hi GrandMasterJ,

You might consider simply asking them for cash back. I enjoy negotiating, I find it fun :wink:

But the basic truth is cash solves many evils, and you received a product materially different from the advertised product. I’d decide how much money/value that’s worth to you, and ask. Or maybe you just want them to deliver the bed you ordered. Or maybe if the layers are not glued you just want the replacement 3" layer of 7.2/8lbs foam.

I’d be irritated too. I’m pretty particular, and when i finally decide on something I get royally irritated if what I’ve rationalized internally is different than what I got. Mistakes happen, so (in my opinion) the measure of professionalism is how a company deals with their mistakes.

Anyhow, I’m enjoying your review, and it’s clear that you’re not trying to unreasonably knock the company or their quality, which appear good. But (from my perspective only) you’re about as unimpressed as I think I’d be receiving the wrong product.

Maybe you want $1000 back if it’s a $2k mattress?

10

Hi GrandMasterJ,

I have to say I agree with you and I also find this frustrating. I have had several “strong” conversations with their ownership about the inaccuracies on their site and while they make good quality and value mattresses and their customer service is good … they certainly don’t do a good job at keeping their site up to date and consistent. In this area they don’t do themselves any favors and it makes the job of their customer service people much more difficult because they have to deal with the issues this creates. This is an area that they need to improve and I have suggested that they go through their entire site to “clean it up” and make it accurate in all respects.

While some people may prefer a mattress that is either softer or firmer than the Grandbed their design goal is to match it as closely as possible. It will also take some time for a new mattress to “match” the feel of a mattress that has already broken in.

There is not a significant difference between the durability of 7 or 8 lb memory foam and 5.3 lb memory foam. Once you are past about 6 lbs or so then any further benefits of increased density are diminished. The gel memory foam is also a more costly material than the same memory foam without the gel. While you haven’t been “cheated” in terms of cost or “value” … the fact remains that what you purchased isn’t the same as what was listed. Sometimes how you feel “about” a mattress can be just as important as how you feel “on” a mattress so I would also suggest talking to them so that you are happy with all aspects of your purchase and of course if it turns out that you aren’t then you have the benefit of a good return policy.

Phoenix

11

Thanks for the replies. In regards to dn’s comments, yes when I put all the time and effort into researching a product and finally make a purchasing decision usually based upon the best performing most durable product within a reasonable price range, I do get annoyed if it is materially different. I think this may be the first occurrence of such happenstance ever since I adopted a “research everything, pay more for quality” standpoint.

I gave some thought to what was said and, while I don’t really like negotiating, I think if I kept the mattress I should negotiate on the price. I’m not in this for profit or to get something free, so I thought about it logically and this is what I came up with:

I paid $2350 for the queen Grandis-HD with deals at the time (looks like those deals are back in rotation again).

Supposed to have:

3" 8lb memory foam comfort layer
2" 5.3lb memory foam support layer

I also got price quotes on the Aurora-HD at the time of $1850ish(updated when I get to work to where it is written down). The specs of the Aurora-HD listed at the time were:

2" 8lb memory foam comfort layer
2.5" 5.3lb memory foam support layer

What I got was:

2" 7.2lb memory foam comfort layer
3" 5.3lb memory foam support layer

Since the specs I got are a closer match the what the Aurora-HD($1850) was being advertised for (hell, they’re even close to the Regalis-HD at the time with a price quote of $1200ish), would it be fair to ask for a refund in the category of $700($500 difference in layers(Aurora) + $200 difference in density(Regalis)) assuming I wish to still keep it? Is this fair? I could of course return it and go back to shopping also.

12

@GrandMasterj

Your logic looks fine. The point isn’t to get some thing for free, but to avoid the negative feelings. Sometimes money can solve the problem… Sometimes it won’t, and a return is better. The point being, if you’re legitimately unhappy, then negotiating for cash or value are a common technique to address the situation. They might be willing to do cash back, or they might simply say if you don’t like it then return it.

There is a prior example here (different company), that corrected a problem and satisfied their customer with a partial refund.
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/memory-foam-mattress-weight

13

So, I read through that thread and then started to look at the Christeli mattresses. In a quick overview of their Tempurpedic Grand competitor(Lux Estate): 2" 8lb memory foam, 4" 5.3lb memory foam, made in USA(I believe Certipur), and a more durable latex core instead of a polyfoam core. All this and their price is $1900 with free shipping and 2 pillows at their current sale. I really think my request amount is quite reasonable now, but if it means too great of a loss (I don’t know their overhead) on Selectfoam’s part, they may just prefer a return to reuse materials or sell it used at cost to an employee.

14

We’re at just over 3 weeks and I thought I would give a quick update on 2 key categories:

ODOR:

Odor has mostly dispensed at this point. Room is only aired about 20 minutes in the morning due to the temperature and remains closed all day (and most of the night) with an air purifier on. I’m not picking up on the odor when I come home from work like I was in the first two weeks. Final test will be Thanksgiving weekend when I will be gone for 4 days/nights just in case I’ve adjusted to any remaining odor this will distinguish it.

COMFORT:

I’m liking the feel and support of the mattress a lot better without the wool cover on it. Last night I had to help a friend move a lot of heavy equipment which caused some pain to my lower back. I noticed that, from the time I got into the bed until the morning when I got out, my back pain was relieved so really feels like I’m getting proper support. Once I sink down into the 7.2lb comfort layers and hit the support layer it seems to align my spine correctly. Only issue I’m still having is a bit with side sleeping. It’s possible more break-in is needed for this, but I think I should be approaching the “broken in” period soon and be feeling close to the “permanent” feel as far as comfort and support goes. I have difficulty falling asleep on my side and seems like my turning to my side in the night may be waking me sometimes due to minor twinges in my back. I expect this minor pain to disappear once the mattress and I are fully accustomed to each other. I want to see where things stand in another week for side sleeping.

SELECTFOAM:

Received a call from Matt, the owner of Selectfoam, a couple of days ago that I haven’t had the opportunity to return due to a busy schedule lately. It was polite and apologized for the mix-up in what I ordered versus what I received. He left me his direct number and since today is a bit more “free” for me I will be giving a call back this afternoon.

15

Quick update(about 7 weeks):

ODOR:

Odor seems to have completely dispensed. I could not smell anything upon returning after a 4 day absence.

COMFORT:

Mattress remains comfortable without the wool cover. Back sleeping is great and side sleeping is good, but not perfect. I imagine a mattress that is perfect for all sleeping positions probably doesn’t exist. Without the wool cover, back pain is completely relieved when back sleeping/lying. I think any sleeping deficiencies at this point are the fault of my body and not the mattress.

TEARS/SPLITS:

The tears/splits number over 2 dozen in the top 7.2lb; none as deep as the original one pictured and can be up to a length of 5cm. I actually heard one “pop” into existence from supporting myself with my elbow while leaning on my side(and I am not a heavy man!). They are predominantly located where my upper back/shoulder impact the mattress. This was of concern to me so I contacted Matt at Select Foam and received this reply:

“This happens to all memory foam products. Not anything to be worried about, as they don’t have a tendency to spread or to affect pressure relief. Tensile strengths (tear strengths) on HD foams never are very high, which is why you don’t see them used in topper applications.”

SELECTFOAM:

I’ve spoken to Matt in length on the phone twice and exchanged a few emails. He seems genuinely interested in keeping his customers satisfied. He expressed concern and offered apologies over the material difference in the mattress I thought I was buying versus the mattress I received. My conversations with him have been interesting and quite informative. We did negotiate a partial refund, however, he has also promised to send latex mattress toppers as the last piece of the puzzle in making me completely comfortable. I am still waiting on the toppers at this time. I am very interested in the feel of latex and memory foam together as I’ve read a few positive posts about that combination.

16

Hi GrandMasterJ,

Thanks for another very informative update :slight_smile:

It’s interesting to see how your experience with the mattress and SelectFoam is “evolving”. It will also be interesting to see how you like the latex on top of the memory foam. Some combinations of latex over memory foam produce a “feel” that I personally like.

Phoenix

17

Hi Phoenix,

I’m interested in your opinion on latex toppers. I did have the opportunity to test out some latex mattresses at The Organic Mattress Store in PA, Cozypure among them. Cozypure was the most comfortable to me overall, but not very comfortable for side sleeping due to the resistance against my shoulders sinking in. The sales personnel informed me that the ILD rating of the Cozypure (with 3" topper) was 65. Two other beds I tried there were 75 and and something in the 80s and too firm for me. These numbers mean little to me except to compare between the different latex toppers. Matt originally informed me he would be sending a topper with 24 ILD and one firmer or softer; I forget which and the number. How well will these soft toppers mesh with the dense memory foam layer on the bed already?

Matt informs me that the combination “is like sleeping on water.” Not a waterbed, to be clear.

I’m thinking of clothing this bed in linen sheets. I know mattresses are the focus here, but I’d be interested if anyone had any opinions on that. Supposedly last generations (archaeologists have found linen 4000 years old), softer the more you wash them, “sleeps cool,” and were commonly the “luxury of royalty bedding.”

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@GrandMasterJ

Numbers like 65, 75, and 80s are likely density values, being measures in kg/m3. The higher the density, the firmer the latex. Note that NR latex will have a higher density than blended density since NR rubber has more mass than an equal amount of SBR rubber, therefore you can only really use density to compare firmness between latex having the same amount of NR. It also likely implies Dunlop, which is usually measured by density and not by ILD.

An ild of 24, on the other hand, is very likely blended talalay.

There have been a few good threads here re linen, which you should be able to search for. I happened to have linen sheets and like them lots. Note that linen tends to be more expensive, and has a more rough feel than cotton, so it’s worthwhile seeing if you like them…in my experience people either love them or hate them (I.e. I like them, my wife swears they’d be too rough).

For linen, I’d recommend you check out

  • mine are St. Geneve from tmasc.ca
  • roughlinen.com
  • linoto.com (only heard good things but have no personal experience with these)
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Hi grandMasterJ,

What they are giving you is the density of the Dunlop latex rather than the ILD. You can see the rough translation from density into ILD for 100% natural Dunlop in post #2 here. I would keep in mind as well that this is just the ILD of the top layer and all the layers of a mattress will have an effect on how it feels not just the top layer. ILD is also only one factor that determines the softness of a material so I would also keep in mind that they are not necessarily comparable between different types of latex because Talalay and Dunlop both have a different compression modulus (they get firmer as you compress them more deeply at different rates) so Dunlop will feel firmer than Talalay of the same ILD when it is compressed more than 25% (where most ILD measurements are taken) which is why Dunlop generally will feel firmer than the same ILD and thickness of Talalay.

That’s a personal preference. Some people will like the combination and say it blends well and others would say it doesn’t and don’t like it as much. It will also depend on the type of memory foam and how sensitive it is to heat because a layer on top of memory foam will reduce the amount of heat that reaches the memory foam underneath it which will slow down how quickly it warms up and affect its firmness and response. Thicker layers on top of memory foam will reduce the amount of heat that reaches the memory foam more than thinner layers so the thickness of each layer will also make a difference in how the combination feels and some people may like one latex / memory foam combination (with different types and thicknesses of each material) more than another. In my own case I like the feeling of a more resilient sleeping surface that comes from the latex with the slower somewhat “delayed reaction” sinking in from the memory foam underneath it.

Linen sheets are among the coolest sleeping sheets and are also very durable. As you mentioned they also get softer with use. You can read more about different types of sheets in post #7 here and the other posts it links to and the last two links in the post lead to threads which talk more about silk and linen sheets.

Phoenix

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Thanks for the replies, both of you.

@DN

I took a quick look at St. Geneve bedding when I started researching sheets 2 weeks ago. I then migrated to Sferra sheets(seems on par with St. Geneve in price and quality?) where I spent a majority of my time reading whatever reviews I could find, gasping for breath at the prices, and looking for possible closeouts or discounts. In a review of Sferra linens on Amazon, the user mentioned Rough Linen as his second favorite linen and I promptly emailed Tricia with questions and requested a sample (been a few days and no reply, hopefully at least the sample went out). Do you feel the linens were worth the price? What did you pay for yours (if you don’t mind my asking)?

The best I found for the Sferra Linens was $600 for a whole set on eBay(which I’d prefer not to use). Have you felt Rough Linen? Opinions? It seems the Sferra ones are “more refined” and shouldn’t feel rough at all. Does your wife find them softer and smoother after multiple washings?

@Phoenix

My concern would be with dampening that dense memory layer and its reaction to my body. I removed (and do not like) the wool cover that comes on the mattress because it highly impacts the reaction of the memory foam to my body. I’m one of those people who likes sinking into the mattress like I’m half submerged in some kind of supportive quicksand.

Side story: At work they asked me what I did on my day off last week. I said “I spent it buying Christmas gifts and researching bedding all day; not at all what I wanted or planned to do. It’s a real hassle researching everything to death, but I do have few regrets in my purchases.” The reply I got was “Well, we’re glad you do it because then we don’t have to research anything; we just ask you!” Freeloaders!