Select Foam Grandis-HD Ongoing Review

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
7

Hi GrandmasterJ,

It’s actually the current listed configuration of the mattress (since Matt changed it when I called him) but it wasn’t when you purchased it of course. I guess the ultimate test is how you feel as the mattress breaks in and it will either be good for you or of course you could return it regardless of why you aren’t happy with the mattress. They believe the current design is closer to the “feel” and PPP of the Grandbed but not everyone will feel the same way.

The 2" tear looks like a tear to me and not a defect but of course I have no idea how it got there. It could have come from handling, a sharp object, during shipping, or from stretching that part of the layer beyond it’s elastic limit but it wouldn’t affect the feel and performance of the mattress and would only be cosmetic.

I think that the people in their customer service department that usually answer the phones may have been as surprised as you were that their website wasn’t correct and actually thought that the listed specs were correct. When I talked with Matt he told me that the GrandBed is the most difficult to “approximate” out of the Tempurpedic designs because of the differences in response between different types of memory foam and that 3" of their 8 lb memory foam would make the mattress softer than the GrandBed.

Either way … your own personal experience and how you feel after the break in and adjustment period will be the ultimate test.

Phoenix

8

Just a quick update:

Got my first night of decent sleep on the mattress. I really like the feel of the (I guess now I know) 7.2lb memory foam comfort layer. You sink in pretty well, so for people that don’t like that feeling, that’s not for them. To me it felt luxurious and comfortable and I enjoyed the feeling both pre and post sleep.

Haven’t had any issues with heat retention, for the most part, short of the heat kicking on while I’m still in bed and I still have several blankets on me. I did come from a memory foam bed that had greater heat retention that I just offset but removing top layers and it seemed to work okay for me. I don’t “sleep hot” as I’ve heard some people say.

The smell is still present. All day airing is no longer becoming an option due to the daily temperature here. I do have a decent (not incredible) sense of smell so maybe others wouldn’t notice it so readily. The smell doesn’t seem to have decreased much since the first week despite the airing; it has reduced from the level it was at the first few days.

I’ve worked with a few incompetent people and vendors in the Networking/I.T. field, but the level displayed by the people handling the SelectFoam website is inexcusable for any (hosting?) company. I’ll be blunt: they really should be fired. They are only hurting SelectFoam’s image negatively and, as a customer of SelectFoam, I can assure you they are hurting it quite a bit in the “trustworthy” department. I see now that specifications of the mattress are updated on the actual page to more closely reflect what I received, however details are still wrong. For instance, Peter had informed me prior to purchase that the cashmere cover was changed to cotton (forget if he said organic or not, I should’ve taken notes… I have notes from my Juan conversations, though) but the site still says cashmere. They are still incorrect when you search for the mattress, for instance, through the Bed Finder tool.

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I don’t think being softer than the Grandbed would have been a bad thing, nor do I think it would’ve been much softer, but I can only estimate based upon the product I have. I recall the Grandbed being decently soft in my testing. Besides the feel, my other concern with losing 1" of high density memory foam is the longevity and durability of the mattress. That was one of my shopping points as mentioned in previous posts and, I thought, a good argument to go for the most expensive mattress: 3" of 8lb quality memory foam should be hard to break down and last over a decade. This is, of course, an estimation on my part but I can’t help feeling like I’ve been cheated out of specification I used in my purchasing decision regardless of how I feel about the mattress currently. I got neither the 3" nor the 8lb dense memory foam (although, as mentioned previously, I wouldn’t be able to feel a difference between the 7.2lb and 8lb, most likely).

With the changes in the mattress construction constantly, the changes in the website specifications, the changes/omissions in verbal conversations with 2 customer services representatives, I feel like I’m dealing with a schizophrenic company. The product has been on the market years (I think Peter gave me a year of 2005? Maybe 2007?, once again I wish I took notes when speaking with him); how have the specifications not settled into a consistent build at this point?

As to the tear, it appears too jagged to be caused by a sharp object (and I’ve brought no sharp objects near the bed). I’ve only slept on the bed or laid on it to watch TV, so it’s hard to imagine how I may have stressed out the foam itself in that particular region. My biggest concern would be that it might start expanding. The protective plastic bags on the mattress and the wool covering both did not have puncture wounds and the mattress was strapped to a wooden pallet, so probably not a casualty of shipping in either sharp objects or stress.

I don’t want these posts to be all negative and I want to love this product. You don’t slap down over $2,000 if you didn’t plan on liking what you were buying! So I’ll end on the same positive note I started on about the comfort: I really did enjoy last night’s sleep and I look forward to tonight’s.

9

Hi GrandMasterJ,

You might consider simply asking them for cash back. I enjoy negotiating, I find it fun :wink:

But the basic truth is cash solves many evils, and you received a product materially different from the advertised product. I’d decide how much money/value that’s worth to you, and ask. Or maybe you just want them to deliver the bed you ordered. Or maybe if the layers are not glued you just want the replacement 3" layer of 7.2/8lbs foam.

I’d be irritated too. I’m pretty particular, and when i finally decide on something I get royally irritated if what I’ve rationalized internally is different than what I got. Mistakes happen, so (in my opinion) the measure of professionalism is how a company deals with their mistakes.

Anyhow, I’m enjoying your review, and it’s clear that you’re not trying to unreasonably knock the company or their quality, which appear good. But (from my perspective only) you’re about as unimpressed as I think I’d be receiving the wrong product.

Maybe you want $1000 back if it’s a $2k mattress?

10

Hi GrandMasterJ,

I have to say I agree with you and I also find this frustrating. I have had several “strong” conversations with their ownership about the inaccuracies on their site and while they make good quality and value mattresses and their customer service is good … they certainly don’t do a good job at keeping their site up to date and consistent. In this area they don’t do themselves any favors and it makes the job of their customer service people much more difficult because they have to deal with the issues this creates. This is an area that they need to improve and I have suggested that they go through their entire site to “clean it up” and make it accurate in all respects.

While some people may prefer a mattress that is either softer or firmer than the Grandbed their design goal is to match it as closely as possible. It will also take some time for a new mattress to “match” the feel of a mattress that has already broken in.

There is not a significant difference between the durability of 7 or 8 lb memory foam and 5.3 lb memory foam. Once you are past about 6 lbs or so then any further benefits of increased density are diminished. The gel memory foam is also a more costly material than the same memory foam without the gel. While you haven’t been “cheated” in terms of cost or “value” … the fact remains that what you purchased isn’t the same as what was listed. Sometimes how you feel “about” a mattress can be just as important as how you feel “on” a mattress so I would also suggest talking to them so that you are happy with all aspects of your purchase and of course if it turns out that you aren’t then you have the benefit of a good return policy.

Phoenix

11

Thanks for the replies. In regards to dn’s comments, yes when I put all the time and effort into researching a product and finally make a purchasing decision usually based upon the best performing most durable product within a reasonable price range, I do get annoyed if it is materially different. I think this may be the first occurrence of such happenstance ever since I adopted a “research everything, pay more for quality” standpoint.

I gave some thought to what was said and, while I don’t really like negotiating, I think if I kept the mattress I should negotiate on the price. I’m not in this for profit or to get something free, so I thought about it logically and this is what I came up with:

I paid $2350 for the queen Grandis-HD with deals at the time (looks like those deals are back in rotation again).

Supposed to have:

3" 8lb memory foam comfort layer
2" 5.3lb memory foam support layer

I also got price quotes on the Aurora-HD at the time of $1850ish(updated when I get to work to where it is written down). The specs of the Aurora-HD listed at the time were:

2" 8lb memory foam comfort layer
2.5" 5.3lb memory foam support layer

What I got was:

2" 7.2lb memory foam comfort layer
3" 5.3lb memory foam support layer

Since the specs I got are a closer match the what the Aurora-HD($1850) was being advertised for (hell, they’re even close to the Regalis-HD at the time with a price quote of $1200ish), would it be fair to ask for a refund in the category of $700($500 difference in layers(Aurora) + $200 difference in density(Regalis)) assuming I wish to still keep it? Is this fair? I could of course return it and go back to shopping also.

12

@GrandMasterj

Your logic looks fine. The point isn’t to get some thing for free, but to avoid the negative feelings. Sometimes money can solve the problem… Sometimes it won’t, and a return is better. The point being, if you’re legitimately unhappy, then negotiating for cash or value are a common technique to address the situation. They might be willing to do cash back, or they might simply say if you don’t like it then return it.

There is a prior example here (different company), that corrected a problem and satisfied their customer with a partial refund.
https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/memory-foam-mattress-weight

13

So, I read through that thread and then started to look at the Christeli mattresses. In a quick overview of their Tempurpedic Grand competitor(Lux Estate): 2" 8lb memory foam, 4" 5.3lb memory foam, made in USA(I believe Certipur), and a more durable latex core instead of a polyfoam core. All this and their price is $1900 with free shipping and 2 pillows at their current sale. I really think my request amount is quite reasonable now, but if it means too great of a loss (I don’t know their overhead) on Selectfoam’s part, they may just prefer a return to reuse materials or sell it used at cost to an employee.

14

We’re at just over 3 weeks and I thought I would give a quick update on 2 key categories:

ODOR:

Odor has mostly dispensed at this point. Room is only aired about 20 minutes in the morning due to the temperature and remains closed all day (and most of the night) with an air purifier on. I’m not picking up on the odor when I come home from work like I was in the first two weeks. Final test will be Thanksgiving weekend when I will be gone for 4 days/nights just in case I’ve adjusted to any remaining odor this will distinguish it.

COMFORT:

I’m liking the feel and support of the mattress a lot better without the wool cover on it. Last night I had to help a friend move a lot of heavy equipment which caused some pain to my lower back. I noticed that, from the time I got into the bed until the morning when I got out, my back pain was relieved so really feels like I’m getting proper support. Once I sink down into the 7.2lb comfort layers and hit the support layer it seems to align my spine correctly. Only issue I’m still having is a bit with side sleeping. It’s possible more break-in is needed for this, but I think I should be approaching the “broken in” period soon and be feeling close to the “permanent” feel as far as comfort and support goes. I have difficulty falling asleep on my side and seems like my turning to my side in the night may be waking me sometimes due to minor twinges in my back. I expect this minor pain to disappear once the mattress and I are fully accustomed to each other. I want to see where things stand in another week for side sleeping.

SELECTFOAM:

Received a call from Matt, the owner of Selectfoam, a couple of days ago that I haven’t had the opportunity to return due to a busy schedule lately. It was polite and apologized for the mix-up in what I ordered versus what I received. He left me his direct number and since today is a bit more “free” for me I will be giving a call back this afternoon.

15

Quick update(about 7 weeks):

ODOR:

Odor seems to have completely dispensed. I could not smell anything upon returning after a 4 day absence.

COMFORT:

Mattress remains comfortable without the wool cover. Back sleeping is great and side sleeping is good, but not perfect. I imagine a mattress that is perfect for all sleeping positions probably doesn’t exist. Without the wool cover, back pain is completely relieved when back sleeping/lying. I think any sleeping deficiencies at this point are the fault of my body and not the mattress.

TEARS/SPLITS:

The tears/splits number over 2 dozen in the top 7.2lb; none as deep as the original one pictured and can be up to a length of 5cm. I actually heard one “pop” into existence from supporting myself with my elbow while leaning on my side(and I am not a heavy man!). They are predominantly located where my upper back/shoulder impact the mattress. This was of concern to me so I contacted Matt at Select Foam and received this reply:

“This happens to all memory foam products. Not anything to be worried about, as they don’t have a tendency to spread or to affect pressure relief. Tensile strengths (tear strengths) on HD foams never are very high, which is why you don’t see them used in topper applications.”

SELECTFOAM:

I’ve spoken to Matt in length on the phone twice and exchanged a few emails. He seems genuinely interested in keeping his customers satisfied. He expressed concern and offered apologies over the material difference in the mattress I thought I was buying versus the mattress I received. My conversations with him have been interesting and quite informative. We did negotiate a partial refund, however, he has also promised to send latex mattress toppers as the last piece of the puzzle in making me completely comfortable. I am still waiting on the toppers at this time. I am very interested in the feel of latex and memory foam together as I’ve read a few positive posts about that combination.

16

Hi GrandMasterJ,

Thanks for another very informative update :slight_smile:

It’s interesting to see how your experience with the mattress and SelectFoam is “evolving”. It will also be interesting to see how you like the latex on top of the memory foam. Some combinations of latex over memory foam produce a “feel” that I personally like.

Phoenix

17

Hi Phoenix,

I’m interested in your opinion on latex toppers. I did have the opportunity to test out some latex mattresses at The Organic Mattress Store in PA, Cozypure among them. Cozypure was the most comfortable to me overall, but not very comfortable for side sleeping due to the resistance against my shoulders sinking in. The sales personnel informed me that the ILD rating of the Cozypure (with 3" topper) was 65. Two other beds I tried there were 75 and and something in the 80s and too firm for me. These numbers mean little to me except to compare between the different latex toppers. Matt originally informed me he would be sending a topper with 24 ILD and one firmer or softer; I forget which and the number. How well will these soft toppers mesh with the dense memory foam layer on the bed already?

Matt informs me that the combination “is like sleeping on water.” Not a waterbed, to be clear.

I’m thinking of clothing this bed in linen sheets. I know mattresses are the focus here, but I’d be interested if anyone had any opinions on that. Supposedly last generations (archaeologists have found linen 4000 years old), softer the more you wash them, “sleeps cool,” and were commonly the “luxury of royalty bedding.”

18

@GrandMasterJ

Numbers like 65, 75, and 80s are likely density values, being measures in kg/m3. The higher the density, the firmer the latex. Note that NR latex will have a higher density than blended density since NR rubber has more mass than an equal amount of SBR rubber, therefore you can only really use density to compare firmness between latex having the same amount of NR. It also likely implies Dunlop, which is usually measured by density and not by ILD.

An ild of 24, on the other hand, is very likely blended talalay.

There have been a few good threads here re linen, which you should be able to search for. I happened to have linen sheets and like them lots. Note that linen tends to be more expensive, and has a more rough feel than cotton, so it’s worthwhile seeing if you like them…in my experience people either love them or hate them (I.e. I like them, my wife swears they’d be too rough).

For linen, I’d recommend you check out

  • mine are St. Geneve from tmasc.ca
  • roughlinen.com
  • linoto.com (only heard good things but have no personal experience with these)
19

Hi grandMasterJ,

What they are giving you is the density of the Dunlop latex rather than the ILD. You can see the rough translation from density into ILD for 100% natural Dunlop in post #2 here. I would keep in mind as well that this is just the ILD of the top layer and all the layers of a mattress will have an effect on how it feels not just the top layer. ILD is also only one factor that determines the softness of a material so I would also keep in mind that they are not necessarily comparable between different types of latex because Talalay and Dunlop both have a different compression modulus (they get firmer as you compress them more deeply at different rates) so Dunlop will feel firmer than Talalay of the same ILD when it is compressed more than 25% (where most ILD measurements are taken) which is why Dunlop generally will feel firmer than the same ILD and thickness of Talalay.

That’s a personal preference. Some people will like the combination and say it blends well and others would say it doesn’t and don’t like it as much. It will also depend on the type of memory foam and how sensitive it is to heat because a layer on top of memory foam will reduce the amount of heat that reaches the memory foam underneath it which will slow down how quickly it warms up and affect its firmness and response. Thicker layers on top of memory foam will reduce the amount of heat that reaches the memory foam more than thinner layers so the thickness of each layer will also make a difference in how the combination feels and some people may like one latex / memory foam combination (with different types and thicknesses of each material) more than another. In my own case I like the feeling of a more resilient sleeping surface that comes from the latex with the slower somewhat “delayed reaction” sinking in from the memory foam underneath it.

Linen sheets are among the coolest sleeping sheets and are also very durable. As you mentioned they also get softer with use. You can read more about different types of sheets in post #7 here and the other posts it links to and the last two links in the post lead to threads which talk more about silk and linen sheets.

Phoenix

20

Thanks for the replies, both of you.

@DN

I took a quick look at St. Geneve bedding when I started researching sheets 2 weeks ago. I then migrated to Sferra sheets(seems on par with St. Geneve in price and quality?) where I spent a majority of my time reading whatever reviews I could find, gasping for breath at the prices, and looking for possible closeouts or discounts. In a review of Sferra linens on Amazon, the user mentioned Rough Linen as his second favorite linen and I promptly emailed Tricia with questions and requested a sample (been a few days and no reply, hopefully at least the sample went out). Do you feel the linens were worth the price? What did you pay for yours (if you don’t mind my asking)?

The best I found for the Sferra Linens was $600 for a whole set on eBay(which I’d prefer not to use). Have you felt Rough Linen? Opinions? It seems the Sferra ones are “more refined” and shouldn’t feel rough at all. Does your wife find them softer and smoother after multiple washings?

@Phoenix

My concern would be with dampening that dense memory layer and its reaction to my body. I removed (and do not like) the wool cover that comes on the mattress because it highly impacts the reaction of the memory foam to my body. I’m one of those people who likes sinking into the mattress like I’m half submerged in some kind of supportive quicksand.

Side story: At work they asked me what I did on my day off last week. I said “I spent it buying Christmas gifts and researching bedding all day; not at all what I wanted or planned to do. It’s a real hassle researching everything to death, but I do have few regrets in my purchases.” The reply I got was “Well, we’re glad you do it because then we don’t have to research anything; we just ask you!” Freeloaders!

21

Hi GrandMasterJ,

Great questions! A couple background notes… My wife and I have a master bed, and also I have a twinxl bed. I snore, so at sleeping time i go to the other room with twinxl. The twinxl has the linen fitted sheet and linen pillow cases. I have a duvet in a cotton duvet cover, and don’t use a flat sheet.

  1. Is linen worth the price? Ans: I like it and am planning on getting some more, so yes.
  2. Does my wife like it after several washings? Ans: no, or at least hasn’t said so. That said she doesn’t try it often. We have a really nice St. Geneve cotton on the king.
  3. For mine, I paid … Well whatever the price for a twinxl fitted sheet and 2 queen pillow cases is at tmasc.ca. I think $150 for the pillow cases and $275 for the fitted sheet.
  4. Have I felt rough linen? Ans: yes I have one of their sample cards. The Rough Linen smooth linen feels near identical to my St. Geneve linen (which is good because St. Geneve is supposed to be pretty premium). St. Geneve and Rough Linen smooth seem comparable.

Other misc notes. What I did was start small… i.e. pillow cases and fitted sheet, without doing the full linen treatment of everything. I’d recommend that approach, unless there is a significant discount to buying everything at once. That way you can see if you like it.

Linen doesn’t stretch, so when used with latex for next go around I plan on getting a fitted sheet that’s too big. I didn’t do that, and while it doesn’t interfere with the feel of the bed, it does mean the fitted sheet hikes up the mattress showing the mattress protector under it (Tricia’s beef at Rough Linen).

My next linens would probably be a Rough Linen flat sheet in the natural color, or maybe a duvet cover.

I use Leblanc linen wash to clean it. It’s what tmasc.ca recommends. I seem to recall other reputable linen shops recommending it. But likely any mild detergent would be good. I hang (inside the house) to dry, which takes about 4-5 hours.

22

Hi GrandMasterJ,

Yes … this is part of how different latex /memory foam combinations (or any material over memory foam) can have a very different “feel”. It will depend on the material above the memory foam, the specific properties of the memory foam (temperature sensitivity, recovery time, etc), and the thickness of each layer. My own personal preference is a thinner layer of latex (to allow more of the “feel” of the memory foam to “come through”) and a relatively thin layer of memory foam (I’m not a fan of the “in the mattress” feel of memory foam) but each person may have a different preference. There are many different combinations that can feel very different from each other even though they are in the same general “category” of a memory foam / latex (or other materials) combinations in the comfort layers.

I guess you could call that the “doctor at the party” syndrome! … except instead of free medical advice it’s free mattress advice. :slight_smile:

Phoenix

23

I received a sample from both Linoto and Rough Linen. The Linoto White Eco-Belgian definitely feels the softest to me. Even so, it still feels like a coarse material; just how much do these soften with washing? If I’m not loving the samples, will I not love the material given how it softens with washing?

Still no toppers from Selectfoam and Matt’s phone number appears to have changed.

24

[quote=“GrandMasterJ” post=29384]I received a sample from both Linoto and Rough Linen. The Linoto White Eco-Belgian definitely feels the softest to me. Even so, it still feels like a coarse material; just how much do these soften with washing? If I’m not loving the samples, will I not love the material given how it softens with washing?
[/quote]

Hard to say. I’ve been about 10 washes of mine so far. It is softening slowly, but not yet close to the softness of (good) cotton. I would still describe it as fairly course. I find I generally enjoy the texture of linen on the fitted sheet. Undecided on pillow case (I have both, and I flip flop). And haven’t tried duvet cover or top sheet in linen yet - (I use the duvet like a top sheet, and my duvet cover is cotton).

I asked my wife again, she still much prefers cotton to washed linen.

One thing i don’t understand yet, is I’ve come across samples of linen that feel way softer than other samples of seemingly the same kind of linen. E.g. My rough linen sample card, the st Bart’s blue was noticeably softer than everything else (including the st Bart’s in other colors). I don’t know if that’s somehow accidental, or if it’s predictave of how it’ll feel when bought, or if it’s evidence of how it’ll feel after about 100 washes, or if it’s because the diff colors are totally different linens, or what. So far,the samples I’ve felt that are that soft haven’t been a color or style I’ve wanted to buy, so I haven’t got any first hand experience. The same happened to me while feeling and selecting the st Geneve linen I got.

I have had linen clothes that have been washed a ton, and I wouldn’t say it becomes so soft that you wouldn’t recognize it as linen. Whether you grow to like it or find it softer with washing is a big unknown.

25

Hi GrandmasterJ,

With linen there are many people who will tell you that you have to “beat it into submission” and it will soften slowly over time (read seasons of use) … but it will take a while. Hot washing and dryer balls in the dryer can help (just make sure you don’t use fabric softener to try to soften it faster because it can apparently interfere with its breathability).

I know that different types of linen will soften at their own speed but the quality of the linen, the weight, and the finishing can make a difference. It’s certainly not an area of expertise for me though and the retailer is probably the best source of information about how long it will take their particular linen to soften. I currently don’t own any linen sheets but I do really like them so it’s high up on my purchase list.

I talked to them today (Peter) and apparently Matt is on holidays but when I mentioned your post Peter was aware of the topper and it’s in the pipeline although he wasn’t sure if it had shipped. I called Matt first but as you mentioned his cell is not in service so I don’t know what is happening there.

Phoenix

26

Thank you Phoenix and DN.

We’re going on 6 or 7 weeks(I lost count) now since the original toppers and pillows were promised as restitution for the mattress errors. I negotiated the partial refund instead of the pillows after they had not shipped 2 weeks after they were originally promised. I sent both Peter and Matt an email and tried to call Matt over 2 weeks ago and have not received any replies. Apparently I should have negotiated a higher refund and just bought the items that were promised. I’m a patient man but every time I talk to Matt (who, I maintain, is a nice and knowledgeable guy and seems considerate to my concerns) there is a lack of follow-through on any promises made.

I purchased a Cozypure Pure Perfomance Lanoodles pillow and I really like the feel of it. I took out a lot the Lanoodles and made a second flatter pillow from it, but find that I am getting neck pain a lot during the night and in the morning when I awake. Since I am a back and side sleeper and since you sink into the bed a significant amount, I am trying to use the relatively flat pillow for back sleeping and the higher pillow for side sleeping with my arm under it. The side sleeping on the higher pillow is causing me back pain, however. I had a crappy polyester beaten down pillow prior to this, and while I didn’t like it very much, I had mostly alleviated my back pains and didn’t have neck pains. I am looking for any advice on this and was going to make sure my spine was straight when on my side.