Select Foam not honoring their trial period and return/exchange policy?

After much research and shopping - including buying a mattress from another company for $1800, one that we simply gave away because it didn’t work for us, and the seller had no comfort warranty - we settled on a Select Foam mattress. We were set on getting a Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe in King size, but decided to give Select Foam a chance based on their claims and their stated warranty (refund or replacement with the corresponding Tempur mattress). We completed our purchase at the end of October last year. While my initial report was favorable, the mattress has definitely softened a great deal as time passes, and is anything but comfortable.

People who have followed my earlier posts about this mattress after it had arrived will remember that I have said there is no way that this mattress would be confused with any Tempur mattress. Absolutely no way. This mattress has no memory foam feel whatsover.

As we approached the end of our 90 day comfort warranty, we contacted Select Foam to let them know that this mattress did not meet our expectations and wanted to exercise our rights under their return policy. We were told by Juan at Select Foam that many people found the wool fire sock to be an impediment to their enjoyment of the mattress. We were told to take it off and then give the mattress another chance to break in. I did this.

Two months after that, we were both suffering from increasing back pain. My girlfriend in particular was in agony. Her hips were popping out of place, and she was visiting the chiropractor 2-3 days a week for adjustment. He had to give her a support belt to hold her hips in place while she slept or went about her day. She also suffered from upper back and neck pain, including headaches. She felt she was blessed when she could simply get 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and let me tell you, she never did.

After thinking about her problems we came to the realization that they began approximately 3-4 weeks after we received this mattress. Keep in mind that prior to this, aside from the one mattress we had purchased the month before, she had been used to sleeping on a collapsed, worn Tempurpedic classic and presented with none of these problems. We therefore contacted Select Foam by email.

Juan said that we needed to speak with Dwight, so he gave us Dwight’s phone number. My girlfriend spoke with him several times during the course of one week, on the cusp of April/May. Dwight said he wanted us to be happy, so what would work for us? My girl told him she wanted them to honor the warranty and take the mattress back. He agreed to do that, and asked which way we wanted to proceed. She told him she would like to get the Cloud Luxe from Tempur. Dwight said he would check on that.

Some time later we got in touch with him and found that the original Cloud Luxe had been discontinued. He urged us to go to a mattress retailer and see which one we wanted instead. This was towards the end of May.

We checked out the new Tempur lineup and found that the new Cloud Luxe felt nothing like the original one. We weren’t happy with very many of the mattresses offered, with the exception of the Allure, but at $5400, its way out of our league. I called him to let him know we wanted the original Cloud Luxe. Dwight’s answer? He said he’d love to help us but since that mattress was discontinued there was nothing he could do. I told him that while we were shopping we found one local Elite retailer who had stock of 5 of the original Cloud Luxe, so I asked him to take back his Cirrus Luxe and send our money to the retailer, where we would pay the rest. He said what I was asking was far beyond his pay grade to authorize, so he would check “the head office” and get back to me. I waited a week, then called him. When I got him on the phone, after a brief reminder session so he knew which situation he was dealing with. He said, “Ah yes. I haven’t heard back from the main office yet.” So he promised to call back within the day, or the next day at the latest. He didn’t, so I called him several days later. This went on a few times. Finally I got an answer.

About two weeks after I originally posed my question, and another session of refreshing his memory about our case, he said he couldn’t send the money to the other retailer. Anything I bought had to be through them. I asked him if they were a Tempur retailer. Dwight’s response, “MmmHmm.” I couldn’t get him to say the word ‘yes’, just “mmmHmmm”. In any case I thought it was odd that they would insist I go through them if they weren’t a retailer, so evidently they are a Tempur retailer. (That makes sense - why would they go purchase every new Tempur mattress at retail if they were going to rip them apart and reverse engineer them? Much better if they did that at wholesale…)

So he reiterated that they couldn’t help me. I told him then that we wanted our money back. Bear in mind that their comfort warranty offers EITHER the purchase price back OR a Tempur replacement. Option two wasn’t available, so how about option one - a full refund? He said that wasn’t a decision he could make, and he’d have to go to the head office for approval. I told him to go ahead and do that. He promised to call me within the next two days. Of course, I didn’t get a call.

Over the next 2-3 weeks, I would call, he would (sometimes) answer, and tell me that he hadn’t gotten an answer out of “the head office”.

Finally, several months after we’d started this whole ordeal, I told Dwight that I was willing to box the mattress up and drive it to Miami myself, and drop it in their showroom, with my own two hands, provided the “head office” would have a refund check waiting for me. I told him I would do this because this situation has now gone far beyond any comfort situation, and on into medical necessity. He seemed taken aback by this and said he’d certainly pass that on and call me back. He said that he had a meeting the following day with the owner of the company to discuss customer issues, and he would put me at the top of the list.

So of course, you know how that went. I had to call him back myself, because never, not once, did I ever get a call from anyone in the Select Foam operation. In conversation with Dwight he said that he had gotten nowhere with the owner of the company. He said he was very sorry, but there was nothing he could do for me.

Fortunately, my girlfriend saved the phone messages from Dwight (for some reason he had no problem calling her back), and has a great one where he said that they would take this mattress back. So they have recognized that we had a comfort issue, but to date have refused to honor their warranty.

An interesting postscript is that when we hit the six month mark we rotated the mattress, as you should always do with any mattress. Guess what? My girlfriend’s hip problem cleared up almost immediately. Now, I wake up every morning with a sharp, acute pain deep in my pelvis. My new side of the bed is sloppy compared to the other side. Fortunately, I think the difference in hip geometry between the male and female bodies are keeping me from having the problem she had. Still, neither of us sleeps very well at all. I get about 6 hours, she gets about 4. The rest of the time we just turn, trying to find comfort in a bed that offers poor support.

In summary: we have $2000+ invested in a mattress that we bought in good faith from a company that does not honor its warranty.

Hi Daemon,

Just for the sake of accuracy … your post is about their free trial period not their warranty so I’ve changed the title of your topic to reflect this.

It took me some time to “sort out” the string of events to try and “unravel” what may be happening but I thought I would make some comments that hopefully will help add some clarity.

Up to this point everything is going the way it’s supposed to and if a customer decides that they don’t like the mattress they purchased then of course they will make suggestions that can help. One of several of their “standard” suggestions would be to remove the fire sock which has made a difference for many people. At this point though I would have asked for an extension to your trial period so that you were clear on how long you would be able to test the mattress without the fire sock and still be able to request a return or an exchange. As far as I know they would normally provide a 1 month extension in circumstances such as yours.

The pain and discomfort is certainly a good indicator that the mattress wasn’t a good match for your girlfriend in terms of PPP (regardless of whether it would be a suitable choice for someone else) but I’m curious about why you waited two months to contact them again. If you had contacted them a month later (which would normally be plenty of time to test the mattress without the fire sock) you would have been in a much better position to request a refund or exchange and the two month timeframe here may be the reasons for the issues you are having now. This would have put you outside of even an extended trial period.

At this point it appears that they were giving you the benefit of the doubt even though it was past the trial period. They would have been well within their rights to refuse an exchange or return because it was past even an extended trial period but it seems that at least at this point they wanted to make an exception to keep you happy regardless of the reasons for why all of this had taken so long.

Again this is long past their trial period but it seems that they are still working with you here at least as far as being willing to provide a Tempurpedic exchange (it’s unclear at this point if they were still willing to provide a refund) because it appears that there was another month delay between your previous conversation and this one. They are also doing the only thing they would reasonably be expected to do with a Tempurpedic exchange because they are correct that Tempurpedic no longer makes the old Cloud Luxe so it’s not an option they would be able to provide. The next best thing would be to do what they suggested which would be to test the current models and decide on which of their current models you wanted to exchange for. I’m not clear here on the reason for the delay between your original conversation on the “cusp of April/May” and your next conversation at the end of May. At this point it seems that they are still willing to go through with the exchange even though it is another month later but it’s not clear if they would still have been willing to do a refund.

He is correct here because they can only exchange for a mattress that they are able to supply you. To exchange for a Tempurpedic you would need to choose a mattress that they could supply since this is part of their conditions for a Tempurpedic exchange.

This took longer than it should have to get to a “no that’s not possible” because it seems clear to me that this isn’t a request that they (or any retailer) would be able to say yes to and it would have been much better if he had just said no on the original call. I think that this was a lack of judgement on his part but may have been the result of his inexperience. Their Tempurpedic exchange is conditional on buying the Tempurpedic from them and this would be the only reasonable way they could make the offer that they do. If they were to send their cost to another retailer then they would no longer be able to earn the profit from the sale which is part of the reason they can offer the exchange in the first place or could make an exception this long after the trial period was over so it really wouldn’t be reasonable to expect them to send the money to another retailer and that’s not what they specify in their exchange policy. Of course they should have told you this the first time that you requested it but at least you reached a “no” two weeks later.

So at this point in the picture your only options would be choosing one of the current Tempurpedics or finding out if they were still willing to make an exception and refund your mattress at this late date.

They are a Tempurpedic dealer and they sell them side by side with their own mattresses in their Florida store.

This is the part where things get rather unclear for me and it certainly shouldn’t have taken them this long to tell you whether they were willing to refund your mattress this long after the end of your trial period. It’s also not clear to me when the conversation with Dwight took place that your girlfriend recorded but I don’t think that there is any doubt that you had a “comfort issue” and the very fact that they were working with you indicates that they of course were aware of this. I suspect that what is at issue may be how long it took to ask for a return vs a Tempurpedic exchange and the effect that the delays on your part or the delays on their part had on the process and the time frame. It may be (and I’m speculating here) that they were willing to exchange for a Tempurpedic for a longer period of time after the trial period as an exception than they were willing to refund your mattress … possibly because of the difference in the cost to the business between a Tempurpedic exchange vs a refund.

It seems clear to me that some of your expectations here were unreasonable (wanting them to pay the cost of a Tempurpedic to another retailer) and the length of time you took in between one part of your experience and the next in some cases was longer than it should have been. It also seems to me that they took much longer to reply to you and give you clear answers than they should have as well which also contributed to the reasons you are so far past your trial period and your issues still aren’t resolved.

I think that your best solution in this case would be to contact Matt and talk to him directly and take an approach that both you and Select Foam could have approached this very differently and acted in a more timely manner and ask him directly (and nicely) if he can make an exception in your case and provide some clarity about what they are and aren’t willing to do and the reasons behind them. Even if they have a legitimate reason to deny the refund because of the length of time involved (and again this may not be the outcome of your phone call) … they may still be willing to do the Tempurpedic exchange for one of their current models.

I hope you take the time to email Matt and arrange for a phone call with him (his email is MattByrd [@] SelectFoam.com) so you can discuss your circumstances and experiences and hopefully find a solution that “works” for both of you.

Phoenix

I’m not sure where you get the notion that this is about the trial period. It isn’t. Admittedly, you were correct about the use of the word ‘warranty’ in the title - I should have spoken of the return policy instead. This thread is actually about them refusing to honor their return policy, not the trial period. Please be careful with doing changes like that, because it could be perceived that you were trying to bias the discussion towards a discussion of the return policy time frame, when the thread actually pertains to the company agreeing to take the mattress back, and then backing out of it. Please change the title to reflect this. It should read “Select Foam doesn’t honor their return policy”.

Initially, I had done a point-by-point response to your post. That ended up being very cluttered, and I think if you had responded to that post in like fashion, it would have been unreadable. So let me be more succinct and linear here.

At many points, you mention the time frame. The time frame is not the issue here. They initially said they would take the mattress back. We have a message, saved in voice mail, from Dwight, acting as the representative for Select Foam, stating that they would take the mattress back. This message came after he had gone to his bosses about the matter. The discussion about the time frame ends there. The issue is that they had previously agreed to take the mattress back, and then reneged on the agreement.

The days that passed between my phone calls to Dwight were not my fault. In every case of a delay it was due to me waiting for Dwight or someone at Select Foam to call me back with answers. This happened repeatedly. My patience grew shorter with every instance of this, and I gave them a shorter and shorter period of time before taking the initiative and calling them. I shouldn’t have to chase them. I don’t have that kind of time available during the day, and I don’t have that kind of life.

My job involves a great deal of travel, and I don’t sit on the phone, nor am I in a position to make calls very often. I will say that if I ever promised a customer that I would do something for them and then repeatedly did what Select Foam did, I would be out of my job in a very short period of time. We were at this phone tag game for two MONTHS. Even Dwight laughed when he looked at the file during our final conversation and said, “Wow, this has been going on for a long time.” I wasn’t laughing. I waited on those calls, and never, ever received a return call. I always had to call them. I don’t know how much more clear I could make that.

You bring up Dwight’s “inexperience”. His experience or lack of it has nothing to do with it, when at every step of the way he said, “Let me go ask” somebody above him. In fact, the reason we have that message saved where he said they were going to take the mattress back was that he wanted to confirm the return with his superiors. The message on my girlfriend’s voice mail was Dwight letting her know that the mattress could be returned.

Dwight asked how we wanted to resolve it. My girlfriend initially suggested getting a Tempurpedic as a replacement, since their warranty allowed for that and we would just take a refund and go buy one anyway. Dwight asked us to go try out all the Tempurs we wanted and let him know what we decided on because he wanted us to be happy and not have the same problem weeks or months down the road. After shopping at several stores, we realized that Cloud Luxe was the only one we wanted. We based our original Cirrus Luxe purchase on the Select Foam website claims that the Cirrus offered the same feel as the Cloud Luxe. Dwight said if a Cloud Luxe were available he’d get it for us, but there was nothing available since they were discontinued.

After Dwight said that, I told him that while we were out looking at alternate mattresses I found 5 new Cloud Luxes in stock at an Elite retailer, and I offered to get him the contact info. I asked him if he could work something out with that. I wasn’t trying to force them into buying it, nor did I demand that they do that, contrary to what you said. He offered to buy me a Cloud Luxe if one was available, I told him where I had found 5 in stock.

Once again he went to the “head office” to see if they would do that, and of course never called me back. When I called him days later he told me they wouldn’t go for that. I exhausted every effort to source a replacement mattress for them so they could honor their return policy. They wouldn’t do it. They said we would have to buy a new mattress through them if we wanted a Tempurpedic.

At no place in their return policy does it state that the customer is required to buy a replacement Tempurpedic mattress through them for the replacement guarantee to be valid. Click on that link you posted in your reply and read it again. What it does say, is “we will make the exchange and cover all transportation costs.” No matter how many times I read that, it says that they will make the arrangements for you. It doesn’t say that they will be providing this mattress under their own Tempur license, and it doesn’t say you’re required to buy it from them.

However, at no place on the Select Foam site does it say they’re a Tempur retailer, or that they intend to take mattresses out of their own stock to honor their exchange policy. While the parent company, Brickell Mattress, has Tempurpedic listed on their brand page, clicking on the Tempurpedic icon doesn’t bring up a list of stock or available mattresses, it brings up a couple of paragraphs of how great Tempur is. According to Tempurpedic, Brickell Mattress is not a Tempurpedic retailer. Unless Brickell Mattress holds a license under another name at another location, that is. That’s something that Tempurpedic would not be happy about, frankly.

At this point, I had exhausted my efforts at getting them to satisfy the exchange portion of the warranty, so I moved for a simple return. And for some reason then the story changed.

If they were dealing in good faith, and if the necessity of a Tempur exchange was indeed their sole objection to resolving this, then at some point that could have been brought up in the previous months. It never was. I offered every conceivable way to make the deal right for them. Besides finding new original stock of the Cloud Luxe for them, I also offered to let them keep the payments we’d already made on the mattress (close to $400, I think) up to that point, and refund the balance. Every time I made an offer to try and get Chris or whomever on board with us, Dwight would say, “I will definitely pass that on, and someone will call you back.” They evidently weren’t interested in the money, so my latest try was the offer to drive the mattress to them myself. And once again, no one returned my calls.

I did want to quote you on this:

In any case, its not my responsibility to make sure they make money, and whether they turn a profit off of an unsatisfied customer is also not my problem. They have a guarantee, and they originally said that they would honor it, and then they backed out.

Also this:

Leaving aside the point that there is no exception to be made, I don’t see where talking to Matt would make a difference. At every point Dwight said he was dealing directly with the owner on this. Is that Matt? Chris? I really don’t care. Dwight said they’d take the mattress back. The time frame was never brought up when we first checked with them. They had our file and knew the time frame quite well. They knew very well that we had complained about the mattress before the 90 days were up. They changed the terms of the original agreement by introducing the bit about the fire sock and telling us to take it off and give the mattress more time to break in.There was nothing in our purchase agreement that indicates I have an obligation to play games with this fire sock. I did it simply to make sure they didn’t say I was uncooperative. They never placed a limit on a further break-in period, whether it was two days or two months or two years. The only thing we were told was just “give it more time”. Regardless, they knew we wanted it gone within the 90 days of the trial period.

Another thing - if the Cirrus Luxe was still available, Select Foam would want me to buy the exchange mattress directly from them, at full retail. Thats $4400. I could walk into the local retailer I mentioned and buy the old Cloud Luxe, which they have only a couple left now, for under $2k, which is getting near to their wholesale price. Assuming that is close to Select Foam’s wholesale price on the old CL (its could be about $200 less than that, depending on how many Tempur mattresses they sell), then that means if Select Foam honored their exchange policy, they would pull in at least another $2400-2600 over what they got from me for this Cirrus Luxe. Plus, Select Foam could then write the cost of the Cirrus mattress off. They might even resell it in their showroom as a “demo model”. Its a pretty sweet deal for them all around. I bet their bottom line would soar if every single customer decided to return their mattress in exchange for a Tempurpedic.

Why would I beg Select Foam or Brickell Mattress or Matt Byrd to make more money off me? I could just as easily go spend $2k out of my pocket at the local retailer, get the bed I want with a full warranty, and throw the Select Foam mattress out in the street. I’d actually save $400 that way.

As far as I’m concerned, the only way out of this for them is to honor their agreement to take this bed back. And then they can refund the money I paid them in good faith, in accordance with the first return option they list in their policy.

Hi Daemon,

I changed the title because your post is about their their 90 day free trial (which includes their return or exchange policy if a customer isn’t happy at the end of it) which is very different from a warranty which covers defective mattresses. To make it clearer yet I changed it to “Select Foam not honoring their trial period and return/exchange policy?” which should clarify it even more. I added a question mark at the end because I don’t know the full story from both sides of the fence and it’s not yet clear to me yet that they aren’t honoring their policy because I don’t know all the reasons why it went past the 90 days (or any agreed to or implied extensions) for all the reasons that I mentioned in my last reply to you.

If it turns out that they aren’t honoring the return/exchange policy that is listed on their website (including the time frame that it states) or aren’t making a reasonable allowance for any delays or confusion that they were responsible for, or not honoring any specific agreements that they made with you that don’t involve a misunderstanding on your part, then I will also remove the question mark. I am always careful about making these types of changes in cases like this so that the topic title accurately reflects the content of the topic and doesn’t make potentially damaging statements that haven’t yet been proven to be correct.

The time frame is an important part of any return or exchange policy and the reasons for all the delays are an important part of the issues you raised. As an extreme example, if they agreed to accept a return or exchange and then you did nothing for a year and then called them to return the mattress a year later then it certainly wouldn’t be reasonable to expect that they would agree to this based on what was said to you a year earlier. Of course I know that this isn’t what is happening but it’s an example to illustrate that the time frame and the reasons for any delays is certainly important.

I understand that they gave you an option to return the mattress or to replace it with a Tempurpedic and according to your post this was on the cusp of April/May when she decided to exchange the mattress for the old Cloud Luxe. If they agreed to do the return or exchange at this point then the previous time frame would no longer be relevant since their agreement at this point would supercede the trial period. This was when they apparently told you they would “check on that”.

Based on your post your next communication was at the end of May when they apparently hadn’t called you back yet and you called and discovered that the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe had been replaced with a new model and this is when he encouraged you to test the current models in the store. What isn’t clear to me is the reason why this took a month after they first told you they would “check on that”. If the reason for this delay was that they didn’t get back to you to tell you how to proceed then I would consider the original commitment that they made on the cusp of April/May to be just as valid at the end of May since you couldn’t reasonably have been expected to know what your next step would be until they called you back.

This was when you tested the mattresses and decided that the only one that would be suitable was the old Cloud Luxe and this is also when the issue came up about buying the mattress from another retailer. This should probably have been an immediate “no” and is the reason I mentioned the lack of judgement or inexperience so any delays to get to that “no” would also be their responsibility and would implicitly extend their agreement to “return or exchange” the mattress.

If all of this is correct so far and there isn’t “another side to the story” then it would seem to me that you would still be entitled to a return and a refund once they told you it wasn’t possible to buy the mattress from another retailer since this would be the only option remaining.

My goal in the last reply wasn’t to “assign blame” but to clarify who is responsible for what and to untangle what appears to be a fairly complicated set of events. I would also want to know if there is another side to the story because (and this isn’t directed to you personally) it’s very common for people to post a sequence of events on the forum that only reflects favorably on their position or version of events or that assigns all the responsibility for a situation to a retailer but doesn’t include or misrepresents some part of the events that wouldn’t reflect as favorably on them or show that they also didn’t live up to their own responsibilities as a consumer. My goal is to always make sure that both sides of every story are heard because in my experience it makes no sense for a retailer or manufacturer to deny a return for no valid reason (or at least believing they have a valid reason) when they know that the feedback would likely cost them more than the return.

I would hope that you would contact Matt (who is one of the two partners and is most involved in their operations) so that your situation can be (hopefully) resolved to everyone’s satisfaction rather than just letting the situation remain as it is which wouldn’t benefit anyone. This would seem to me to be the best outcome of all and I would think would be worth the effort of an email and some further conversations. I will also bring up this topic when I have the chance to talk with him next.

When all sides of the story have been told … if it’s clear that they didn’t live up to their stated policies or their commitments to you or make a reasonable allowance for any delays that were the result of their own actions (or inactions) then I will certainly remove the question mark.

I would also reconsider the membership of a member here who didn’t live up to their clear and agreed upon commitments or who didn’t provide a refund that a customer was entitled to.

Phoenix

Daemon,

I’m an owner at Select Foam. Firstly, I look forward to speaking to you directly to get this resolved.

Secondly, I’ll say this: though we have a 90 day trial period, if there was a legitimate attempt to follow through on a return or an exchange prior to the 90 days passing, it’s something that we’ll look past. We do honor our return policy however.

There were a lot of issues mentioned in your posts, which is different from what my customer service team relayed to me, so I don’t feel I yet have the context of your order/situation to be addressing them all on the forum prior to us speaking.

At the end of the day though, I just want my customers to be happy with their level of sleep, and right now you obviously aren’t, so I’m looking forward to fixing that for you.

Thank you,
Matt Byrd

Folks,

I’m going to be talking with Matt on Tuesday. I’ll keep everyone posted.

Hi Daemon,

I’m glad you connected and I’m looking forward to your next update.

Phoenix

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