Hi
Your input that the models do not match what I was feeling made sense. I called the store and told them the Genius does not have slow recovery latex. I will go back today to Bedmart and also if time check AZPremiumMattress co. for the topper.
Hey thanks for the new thread I have a better understanding on the adjustable bases and have a great point of reference in the site you recommended.
Hi robbbiev3,
I hope you let us know what they say about what you were told … I’m certainly curious.
Hopefully the new adjustable bed thread will gradually include more and more information as I and others have time to add it. It was a great idea.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
I wanted to give you the update from my return visit to BedMart. I checked the law tags and they are labeled correctly. The Insight IMO was too soft and the Genius was still firmer to me. I did have a great salesman that called the Serta rep and I now have the foam layer for the Genius.
Top layer 2 inches of support foam 1.3 lbs. and 52.5 lbs. IFD (Indention Force Deflection for your readers)
Cool Gel Foam layer 2 inches 4.1 lbs. 10.5 IFD
Core layer 6 inches 1.51 and 33 lbs. IFD
Here is a link to what that means http://www.pfa.org/jifsg/jifsgs4.html
I know my choices weren’t the greatest as discussed above. I bought the Genius as an exchange across the board. I did this under the warranty (I was lucky) and I still have the Comfort exchange option till 9/28. I felt it was the best option I had at this point.
I also purchased the Ergomotion Serta Motion Perfect adjustable bases for 2200.00. Adjustable beds.org has them for 3200.00. Bedmart will do full free setup and delivery today at some point. These have the zip it closure so the mattress stays firm to the foundation and they also include the bedrail if you change mattresses. Thanks for your recommendation on the adjustable beds.
I then went to AZ Premium Mattress Company where I met Ken Hightower. I am in Phoenix so he is local for me. What a great guy! He knows so much about latex what a wealth of information. I know most of his business is online but he was great to work with and had some good tips. I did take your recommendation and asked for the Latex Talalay GL fast recovery. He was so surprised not many people know about this. Of course I mentioned you and your mattress forum and received 5% off my topper and a shredded Latex pillow that I now love!
Ken also sells adjustable beds he carries the Ergomotion 100 and 400 and will be receiving the Reverie soon. He has the same prices as adjustablebeds.org. Good to know for anyone in Phoenix they can try all his stuff out. Adjustable beds can be considered a medical device and he will take a script from your doctor and not charge you the tax!
Overall Phoenix I want to thank you for all the work and knowledge you have put into this site. Are you still evaluating the PayPal button.
Robbie
Hi robbiev3,
Thanks for the iComfort Specs. Your experience is a good example of how different people have different perceptions.
The Genius is “rated” as being firmer on the Serta website (and quite frankly I had no idea that the “support foam” underneath was 52 IFD (ILD)) which is like a rock so I was curious about how different outlets would rate them. I called about half a dozen places and most said that in their experience that the Insight felt firmer. The “rationale” was that thicker mattresses often feel softer but I think the biggest difference is that if someone is “going through” the 2.75 inches of the gel memory foam more … then they would feel more of the firmer layer below than a lighter person. Of course all of this is subjective but your experience on the two agrees with the Serta site and also makes sense given the firmness of the “support foam” underneath the gel memory foam.
Other than that … I am really grateful that you were able to find out the specs of the mattress. Unfortunately … as is often the case when you can track down the specs of a major brand … they are even worse than I thought.
This is actually the second layer down under the gel memory foam (you can click on Genius here on the Serta site) and is only 1.3 lbs density. This is not good at all and even with the firmness this low quality of foam will soften significantly over time. This is the layer that you are likely feeling because is is firmer than the more typical 33 IFD core.
This is also not quite accurate because the gel memory foam layer is 2.75" thick but if the specs are correct about the density then it’s the same quality/density as the Novaform and I was going under the assumption based on some calculations and based on claims that it had a higher gel content that it had a higher density than the Novaform. This would mean that the “base” memory foam layer was lighter than 4 lbs which means that it is also lower quality. The ILD (I still tend to use the previous term for IFD) is also very low but this is not nearly as meaningful with memory foam as it is with faster responding foams.
This one is the most surprising of all to me because while the firmness of this layer is fairly typical … the density/quality is the type of polyfoam that is only used in the lowest cost mattresses. I didn’t even think that Serta would “cheap out” so much and use this type of lower density foam in their support layers.
Quite frankly I’m rather shocked that the foam quality is as low as it is. I normally don’t put a lot of time into researching foam specs with the major brands because the outcome is always the same … lower quality and value … but in this case my curiosity is raised to see if I can confirm if these specs are accurate.
If your perceptions on the Genius were firmer though (which certainly makes sense given the high IFD layer under the gel foam) … then that’s the choice I would likely have made as well out of the iComfort or other options available to you for an exchange.
The Serta ergomotion is basically similar to the Ergomotion 400 in function (with a few extra features) but having said that if you purchased both sides of a split king for $2200 then I would consider that to be good value. The Serta is “price controlled” both in terms of the advertised price and the selling price and Serta monitors this (which is why their prices are so high) but if this really is both sides and is not the result of a “hidden discount” that was part of the overall exchange process and made it look like the price was that low … then you did well 
I mentioned in your other post today but it’s also worth repeating again that I also think highly of Ken and he really is a wealth of information about mattresses, latex, and the industry. I’m glad to see he is carrying the Ergomotion and the Reverie (to come) because they are my two “favorite” adjustables in terms of value.You did well here
Thanks again for the kind words and especially for the foam specs on the iComcort. Even most retailers will tell you that their rep won’t tell them the information you got for us today. I really appreciate it!! I’ll also try to have the paypal button up (still trying to figure out where to put it so it’s not blatantly obvious) before I go to bed tomorrow as well.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
The Genius was 100.00 dollars more than the Serta Bradbury. Again free delivery and exchange since it was under warranty.
Yes the price for the split King was 2200.00. I thought he made a mistake but he started at 3400.00 which is close to the controlled price. It is for the split Eastern king and two remotes synched up together.
One thing I didn’t realize is that you can only adjust in certain increments granted they are not great movements but it would have been nice to stop on a dime:-))
I cannot wait for Ken’s topper to get in stock because this bed is firm. Ken also showed me that when a foam bed gets too soft flip it over and put the topper on it instead of exchanging it. He actually had one set up in the showroom and did this for me. very interesting.
My next bed will be from Ken. Stand up guy! No more top S’s for this girl.
Hi robbiev3,
You certainly did well with this
That’s odd. I just tested my Reverie (in case I’d never noticed this) and it starts and stops at any level or increment in both head and foot. I’d be interested if this is just the Serta motion perfect or if the Ergomotion 400 is like this as well. When I tested it (the Ergo 400) I don’t remember this but I may just not have noticed.
In any case … I’m glad that within the range of possibilities you had … that you were able to resolve your immediate issue and got a great price on the adjustable as well. An advantage of having a topper as well is that it can also help reduce the wear on the foams that are in the iComfort so they can also last longer in spite of their lower density.
Overall I think your “solution” was the best one possible.
Phoenix
Hi robbiev3 and others with the same request,
I’ve added a Paypal “donation” button and found an inconspicuous place to put it so that it’s not obvious but is easily accessible for those who wish to use it.
If you hover on the “services” top menu item you will see a link to the page which has the button.
Thank you again for the thought and the suggestion
Phoenix
Hi
The button worked perfectly. With universal energy it is nice to say thank you. I understand it was not the site’s construction but there is also a way for you to pay it forward if you would like. Either way Phoenix I appreciate this site and your quick responses. I get my topper in a few days and will update then.
Robbie
Hi robbiev3,
Thank you!
Phoenix
I was able to confirm via email from Serta the spec of 4lb & 10.5 IFD for the cool action gel.
The koolcomfort in my Serta is clearly mentioned as 5lb, but I could not find anything on the cool action gel foam underneath it.
Hi crazydiamond,
I’m not sure what you mean here. If you meant the “gel energy foam”, this is latex with phase change materials in it, most likely Talalay GL fast response.
Phoenix
Sorry if I missed something Phoenix, I had been researching the Serta iseries and icomfort lines. There was little information on their layer of “CoolAction Gel Memory Foam”. My research led me to this thread which appeared to provide the information on this material. I was confirming its density and IFD as 4lb and 10.5 IFD. I don’t know why they would simply provide these specs. With their koolcomfort layer - they do mention it is 5lb. This site has provided some excellent detective work on the materials used in various beds.
Hi crazydiamond,
OK … now I get it
I thought you were asking about the CoolAction but you had just posted the specs for it so my “translation” of your post was that you meant to ask about the specs of another one of the materials rather than telling us what Serta had said. Thanks for letting us know.
I agree with you that the manufacturers should provide the specs that are needed to know the quality of the materials they use in their mattresses but unfortunately most of the major ones don’t (at least not without jumping through many hoops and even then the most important ones are usually not disclosed like the polyfoam densities in their mattresses). Of course they have a good reason for this because the “facts” would lose them many sales to smaller local or regional competitors and their marketing stories are the driving force behind their success … not meaningful information. I only recently discovered the density of the polyfoam in the iComfort for example because a forum member found out from a Serta rep (and most of them don’t give out this information) and posted the information here in the forum (and if the information is correct, it is in the quality range of low budget/quality mattresses)
So basically the materials used in the iComfort lineup (to the limits of what I know) are …
CoolAction Gel Memory Foam … 4 lb gel particle infused … lower quality/durability equivalent to sub 4 lb regular memory foam.
KoolComfort Memory Foam … 5 lb good quality
Slow Response Latex … generally good quality but type of latex unknown. It has no pincores which makes it likely that
it is some form of Dunlop and this could be natural, synthetic, or blended latex.
Gel Energy Foam … generally good quality and some sites refer to it as Talalay but it could also be another type of latex. Could be natural, syntheticj, or blended.
Support Foam … very low quality 1.3 lb polyurethane typically used only in the low quality/budget mattresses
Comfort Foam … likely to be a firmer version of the comfort foam with the same low quality
6" ComfortLast Support Core … 1.5 lb polyfoam which a the density/quality generally only used in the support core of low budget mattresses.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
Glad our detective work with the different layers will help someone else.
As an owner of the I series for the 2 1/2 weeks if you are very light it might work but for a heavier body no Way! Very poorly produced mattress as the above thread let’s one know. Not worth your money to go with the big S stores. Wow could have bought a king Latex mattress knowing all the benefits and sustainability and would have been better off.
Hey everyone Phoenix put in a PayPal button if you would like. I would have saved a lot if I found this site first however all the previous tips have helped make a good night’s sleep.
Thanks good summary.
I may regret it, but two weeks ago I purchased an iseries (not icomfort). I will receive it in about a week. Hence some research about the iseries before and after my purchase.
The only thing I can say I did right in choosing the specific model I did, was I choose one of the few iseries models with no plain foams in it. This model just has the 5lb koolcomfort memory foam on top and cool action gel memory gel under that. At least the 5lb stuff is good as a top layer. I think this may give it an edge (well a bit more durability) over something like the Bradbury model and others with the low quality foams mixed with the memory foam. I do have the 100/120 day exchange return policy…so stay tuned.
P.S my wife has severe allergies to latex so we kind of skipped that route a month ago during our consideration for a new mattress.
Hi crazydiamond,
I’m not sure which model you chose but besides the lower quality/durability of the type of gel memory foam they use and the low density of the Comfortlast support core (which is apparently only 1.5 lb density) … all of the models except the Insight includes polyfoam in the mix of the comfort layers. Some of these are “omitted” in the layer descriptions on the Serta website. These vary from 1" - 2" of either “support foam” or “comfort foam” in the different models. While an inch of low density polyfoam in the upper layers by itself may not be a big issue if it was the only “weak link” of the mattress … in combination with other less durable materials it may contribute to softening and loss of comfort or support over time and be one additional factor that reduces the useable lifetime of the mattress.
The latex used in mattresses is not generally a material that affects people with latex allergies unless they are the more serious Type 1 allergy which like all allergies which can induce anaphylactic shock (like a bee sting for some people) can be very serious indeed. Post #2 here has more information about latex allergies and how unusual it would be for latex foam … even for those who are allergic to other rubber products like gloves or condoms.
Phoenix
Thanks again.
The icomforts are based on foam cores. The iseries are hybrids using foams (MF and other foams) over coil cores. This is what the bradbury was in the beginning of this thread I think.
I bought the Serta Jubliance iseries Perfect Day model. 2" inches of 5lb KoolComfort, then 2 inches 4lb Cool action gel (4 inches total memory foam) over a duet coil system. No other “cheap” comfort foams in it like in the other models. Just Memory foam and coil. About $2200 bucks. It is listed as a medium comfort mattress (neutral feel) neither too firm nor too soft.
My wife could not handle a tempurpedic cloud or all other competitors (which I wanted), so we compromised on a hybrid.
I am aware the 4lb density is not the best, but then again their are cheap mattresses and toppers with 3lb Memory foams in it and others with just plain old worthless “comfort foams”… which can’t standup to big guys like me. I am hoping putting the 5lb KC MF up on the top in this model, along with the 4lb underneath, will offer some durability from what I have had in “plain foam” spring mattresses. Or at least retain some uniformity and comfort for 3-4 years. I would be fine to get 4 good years out of this “25 year” serta model. I got 120 days to see how I like it.
My wife has a combination of skin sensitivities and chronic asthma. The latex reaction could very well lead to a severe asthma attack. I will read your link to the types of latex out there and keep it in mind should this mattress not hold up.
Thanks again for so much detailed technical data. This is only one of two places on the net I could find any discussion of the specs on serta or other mattress components. I know you are a big proponent of latex and of smaller custom mattress shops and I respect that. I have book marked a couple of places you listed near me… just in case.
Hi crazydiamond,
My apologies. You’re right of course and sometimes I see the Serta “i” and my mind jumps to iComfort which is the subject of most of the questions here rather than the iSeries. As you mentioned … a few of the iSeries (the top 3 in the line) don’t have the polyfoam in the comfort layers so you are absolutely correct that your mattress doesn’t have the “questionable” foams outside of the gel foam itself.
The CoolAction gel memory foam is actually not comparable to a 4 lb foam because this is not its polymer density. The gel is heavier than the memory foam so it artificially inflates the weight of the memory foam it’s added to. The particles also lower the durability of the memory foam as all particulates do with foams so it would actually be more comparable to another memory foam that was lower than 4 lbs. (likely in the 3 - 3.5 lb range).
The good news though is that you’re also right about how the higher quality memory foam on top will increase the durability of the lower quality gel memory foam below. Believe it or not I also like the design of the “Duet” springs and how they work in parallel rather than in series. This allows for some travel in the taller lighter spring before it gets firmer faster as both springs work together in tandem which can lead to better alignment.
While the mattress will likely stay “even” because the foams will not have the unweighted impressions that trigger a warranty claim … the foam softening and loss of comfort and support (or sleeping in a hole or soft spot) which is the reason that a mattress normally needs to be replaced is not covered by warranty. However if you have selected in the middle of your “range” of pressure relief and alignment needs … then with any initial foam softening the odds are better that you will still be in the range that is best for you and further softening will be more gradual after that.
I should also mention that even though the “value” may not be there … if I was faced with a choice of having a good sleep for a few years with a lower quality/value mattress and a poor sleep with a higher quality/value mattress … I would choose the better sleep even if the cost was higher. While I would rather have both good value and good sleep … there is no doubt IMO which is most important overall.
So thanks for your feedback and a comments … and if your mattress is still working in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Preferences) after the initial 120 days … then the odds are good that you will get your 4 years out of it
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
Just an update since Az Premium Mattress’s Talalay GL fast recovery topper came. I love it and have slept much better without pressure points and also a much better and longer sleep without frequent awakenings.
I much prefer the fast recovery because I find it easier to move around in bed. Also the adjustable bed is divine. thank you again for helping me make a bad situation good. Your site has been a tremendous source of information.
Robbie
Hi robbiev3,
Thanks for the kind words and for your report
I have similar preferences to you it seems in terms of preferring less restriction of the healthy and necessary natural movements that need to happen while we are sleeping. Of course the other side to this same story that is of interest to many … and not mentioned as frequently … is having less restriction on the “other movements” that happen on a mattress when we are awake
Phoenix