Serta iSeries Expression

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Obviously I should have found this website before I bought a mattress yesterday…

I’m looking for a King size mattress for my wife and I. I’m a back sleeper, 6’1 210lbs, she’s a side/belly sleeper, 5’7 155lbs. We are both 31 and from Ontario Canada - near the city of Barrie. We are looking to invest in a very durable mattress that will last 15+ years (who isn’t!).

I ordered the Serta iSeries Expression mattress and now I have some questions. I understand the gereral concept of an individual pocket coil base (or support core) under a memory foam comfort layer - and in general, I think that’s fine. I see Phoenix lists individua pocket coils “near” the top of the list of durability for support cores.

My question lies with what the “comfort layers” are actually made of in this mattress. The salesman I had at the store was really unable to tell me what the cross-section (yes that should have been my first sign to just leave). I’ve looked on-line and was just left with more questions.

this website iSeries® by Serta® Expression Collection

shows the layers being a mixture of “continuous comfort”, “KoolComfort Memory Foam”, “Cool Action Gel Energy Foam”, “Cool Action Gel Memory Foam”, “Best Edge Foam Encasement” and the Duet Coil Individually Wrapped Coil-in-Coil Support System"

But when you click on the picture of the cross-section, it just shows a “surface comfort layers”, then the “Cool Action Gel Memory Foam”, then Serta Comfort Foam. And I suspect both the Comfort Layers and Comfort Foam is very poor grade material???

Then of course, this website (from where I bought it) http://www.sleepcountry.ca/tabid/131/products/220/default.aspx

doesn’t say anything about “KoolComfort Memory Foam” at all.

I was doing some research online last night and it was saying the Cool Action memory foam is only 4lbs/cu.ft. - which Phoenix doesn’t rank very high. Can someone confirm that? Any more information? I was told this bed is basically the iComfort “comfort layers” on a pocket coil base. Is that true?

BTW - This mattress and box set were originally priced at about $4,000. It was marked down to $2,450 and I got them down to under $2,000 (including our lovely 13% tax here in Ontario). At first glance, I felt like I got a good deal here, but I’m worried like almost every interspring mattress I’ve ever had - I’m going to be sleeping in a divot after 3-4 years.

Any suggestions for my area? Ontario Canada?

Thanks,
Allan

2

Hi Brownie19,

I believe the iSeries Expression is the equivalent to the iSeries Triumph.

The layers are as follows …

Continuous comfort is their name for the unquilted “smooth” cover.

Kool Comfort memory foam is 5 lb memory foam (good quality)

Cool Action gel energy foam (which I believe is Talalay latex which is also good quality)

Cool Action gel memory foam (which is 4 lb gel memory foam with “particulates” in it … see post #2 here about the different types of gel foam materials).

Duet Innerspring (coil in coil pocket coils)

Overall … this mattress has no obvious weak links (even though the gel memory foam is not the highest quality it is also lower in the mattress which would stress it less). It’s “value” though is open to question even at the lower price you paid.

The $4000 price is completely fake and only meant to convince customers that they are getting a “deal”. The regular price is their “marked down” price which is poor value IMO and it’s still not great value at their “negotiated” price IMO although it’s at least not as obviously poor value.

Some of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Barrie area (with a link to the Toronto list as well) is in post #2 here.

When you are dealing with retailers who are listed as “possibilities” the most important part is to talk with them first and make sure they are both willing and able to provide you with the specs of the layers of their mattresses before you spend any time there. Without this you will have no meaningful way to make meaningful quality/value comparisons with other mattresses.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix - I appreciate the feedback. I was hoping you’d say the iSeries Expression is equivalent to the iSeries Perfect Day Triump. That makes me feel a lot better about the purchase. I hear what you’re saying about “value” - but at the end of the day, as long as I got a well built mattress that should last, I’m ok with paying a bit more. When taking a 2 year old and newborn shopping with you, sometimes having something “done” is worth the extra money if you know what I mean.

I called the clown at Sleep County Canada and he said he was really busy and couldn’t tell me what the comfort layers in the mattress were made from. He is arranging for his Serta Rep to call me. Brutal, I know, but at least I should be able to confirm what you’ve told me from the Serta Rep.

4

Hi Brownie,

I certainly do understand what you mean :slight_smile:

Phoenix

5

Once I have a break in the action, I’m going to set up a thread with my buying experiences, and try to make it an ongoing thread about my review and life with whatever bed I’ve chosen.

It should provide some comedy, tiny bit of insight, and maybe encourage people to make some popcorn to read it with LOL

And yes, I also understand what shopping/testing can be like with 2 kids in tow :slight_smile:

6

Phoenix - I thought you’d be happy to hear I called Sleep Country and cancelled my order. They are complete bafoons there. I called an asked three different people if they could explain what layers were in the comfort layers of the Serta iSeries Expression mattress. They said they looked for information and couldn’t come up with anything.

I told them that was unacceptable and to cancel my order immediately. You wouldn’t buy a car from a salesman who couldn’t tell you what engine was in it!!! They’re even too dumb to call their Serta rep and ask.

I called Mattressland in Barrie as you recommended and the Owner was extremely helpful. It took all of 10 seconds to realise he knew what he was talking about. I’m looking at a couple of different options from Therapedic - the EcoGel, the PureTouch and the MemoryTouch series. The Owner gave me a couple of quote verbally and I though they were very reasonable. Any tips on those 3 series that I should know?

Thanks again - I’m recommending your site to all of my friends and I’m going to let the Owner of Mattressland know you recommended him.

7

Hi Brownie19,

I’m glad to see the people at mattressland were knowledgeable and helpful. I will often list retailers in the many lists I post on the forum for most of the cities around the country as “possibilities” that need further research to confirm how knowledgeable they may be rather than “recommendations”. These are usually based on the information on their website and because they carry some brands that may have better quality/value on a “mattresses by mattress” basis even though I haven’t had the chance to talk with them in person to know for sure how knowledgeable they may be. In these cases feedback like yours is always very helpful for others in the area.

The most important thing is to make sure that they provide you with the layering of each of the mattresses you are looking at. In the case of Therapedic … they are made differently in different areas of the country (they are a licensee group that includes many different factories) so their mattresses may be different in different areas of the country (or continent).

You can see examples of the specs of the EcoGel series here for example (all 3 list the detailed specs including foam densities). These are good quality mattresses with no obvious “weak links” and at the right price they can be good value IMO.

The Pure touch also use good quality materials (such as latex) but I would make sure that there isn’t too much polyfoam in the quilting or comfort layers over the latex layers which could be subject to early softening. Once you have about 2" or more of lower density polyfoam in the upper layers you can be in risky territory and I would want to know the density of the polyfoam that was being used. If it’s only an inch or so then foam softening won’t have a significant effect on the mattress.

With the MemoryTouch the same guidelines would apply and I would want to know the density of the memory foam and also to make sure that there wasn’t too much lower density polyfoam in the upper layers of the mattress over the memory foam layers.

Hope that helps … and feel free to post if you have some specs and want some thoughts about the specific mattresses you are looking at. Of course just as important as the quality of the materials is to make sure they “fit” you for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) so I would make sure you spend at least 15 minutes fully relaxed on each of your final choices (including all of your sleeping positions) to make sure they provide good pressure relief and alignment.

Phoenix

8

Thanks Phoenix - great advise.

The wife and I both the fact that latex foam sleeps “cooler” and is more durable (higher quality) than some of the other foams - especially the geo infused foams.

The PureTouch II - Natural Splendor II model caught my eye from the website below.

http://www.therapedic.com/mattresses/puretouch/puretouch-ii/

Three 2" layers of talalay latex foam (with different levels of firmness) over a polyfoam core. It also lists a 1" support foam layer - which I assume is on top? I suspect that’s the layer you’re warning me about?

You can see the website lists the King at $3,699 - but I doubt that’s real. Mattressland verbally told me they could sell that mattress for about $2,200. I was curious if you think that’s a reasonable price, based on the specs. If we are leaning towards a King size latex mattress (probably with a 6" comfort layer) - how much should we expect it to cost?

Thanks again.

9

Hi Brownie19,

That’s very true in general but bear in mind that some of the better gel infused foams can also be very durable and are slightly cooler than typical memory foam. Therapedic tends to use the better versions of gel (but again this should always be confirmed by the retailer you are working with because it may vary from area to area). It’s also important to know the type of latex you are looking at. Latex can either be Talalay or Dunlop (two different manufacturing methods) and either one can use either natural rubber, synthetic rubber, or a blend of the two. There is more about the different types of latex in this article. It appears from the ILD numbers on the Therapedic site that they are using blended Talalay.

These are what is called a “latex/polyfoam hybrid (with latex on top and polyfoam in the support core). None of these appear to have the soft polyfoam quilting layers above the latex and the 1” layer you are referring to is a very firm polyfoam layer on the very bottom which is usually called a stabilization layer and provides a stiff and very firm support layer on the very bottom of the mattress. This would not be a durability issue. The layers I was “warning” you about would be any polyfoam used in the upper layers of the mattress. Your retailer should be able to give you a layer by layer description of the mattresses they carry with specific details about each layer. These may not always be the same as the Therapedic site.

As you mentioned … the $3699 listed on the Therapedic website is greatly inflated and is really only a reference point that retailers can use to make their own prices look better. $2200 would be much more reasonable but I prefer to compare prices on a “mattress only” to “mattress only” basis because the different cost and quality of different foundations included in the price can distort comparisons between mattresses.

“Value” is also much more than just price because a mattress also needs to match your needs and preferences and there is also “value” in all the other parts of a mattress purchase which are part of your personal “value equation” (see post #46 here) which are just as important as the “commodity value” of the materials in the mattress and can’t really be separated out from the cost of the mattress itself. Trying to decide on value without taking into account how well each mattress matches your needs and preferences is only looking at part of the picture because no matter how good the price … the quality of your sleep over the years will be what you remember most.

Each of the different objective, subjective, and intangible benefits of the mattress itself and the retailer or manufacturer you are buying from may be more important to some and less important to others. For example one retailer may offer free delivery and removal of an old mattress and the other doesn’t, one may offer some kind of service that a mattress can be exchanged or adjusted if needed while another doesn’t, or one may have more experience and knowledge about “fitting” their customers to a mattress that is “best for them” than another.

My general approach to “value” is to first narrow down the two or three different local retailers or manufacturers you prefer to deal with that carry the types of mattresses you want to test and have the knowledge quality, value, and service that is important to help you make good choices. This would be based on my initial phone research and conversations with them along with initial visits to test mattresses at each of the ones that were most promising on the phone.

I would then narrow down my choices at each retailer or manufacturer to one or at most two models. You can then compare these “final choices” to each other and also if you wish to similar mattresses that are available online. If the local “premium” is in the range of 20% - 25% or less compared to online options you have then I would lean towards buying locally although the actual difference would be up to each person to decide for themselves (each person may feel more or less strongly about the risk involved in an online purchase that they can’t test first). If the “local premium” for a similar mattress is more than this, then it may also be worth considering an online purchase depending on your own personal “value equation” and your risk tolerance with a particular online purchase.

So overall … depending on all the other factors involved and what else is included in the price … the price seems “reasonable” but probably not “best in country” type of value and it would depend on how the mattress itself compared to other local mattresses along with how the benefits of dealing with any other retailers you are working with compare to each other and which would represent the best “local value” based on all the factors that were most important to you.

Phoenix

10

Speaking of foundations. Based on the bed I have (relatively cheap bed with slats spaced way too far apart), I was thinking of buying a 2" posture board with my mattress purchase.

I don’t see a lot of info on the site about foundations or posture boards - is that the right choice if I’m looking a latex or memory foam mattress?

Anything interesting I should know about posture boards?

It looks like the PureTouch latex/hybrid mattresses may not use the “best” quality poly support base. It’s just referred to as Poly Foam Core - so I’ll have to really grill the retailer about what that really is. Otherwise - decent mattress I think.

11

Hi Brownie19,

The only real difference between a “posture board” or bunkie board is that they have a lower profile than a rigid slatted foundation. Generally you will find regular profile foundations (typically 8-10"), low profile foundations (typically around 5") and bunkie boards (typically about 2"). The only real difference between them is that they provide a way to raise or lower your mattress higher or lower on your frame. In some cases such as if you have a slatted bedframe, you won’t need a foundation at all as long as the height of the mattress is acceptable to you.

There is more about bunkie boards in post #4 here and there is more about the many different types of foundations available in the foundation thread here.

If you are looking at a mattress that has a foam base (either polyfoam or latex) … then a slatted rigid foundation is usually the best choice yes. If the base foam is latex then the gaps in the slats should be 3" or less (or have a wire grid surface which provides even and strong support for the mattress). If the base foam is polyfoam then wider gaps between the slats or grid is fine (following the recommendations of the mattress manufacturer).

A good retailer would be able to tell you the density/quality of the support foam in the base (or call the factory to find out if they don’t know). Generally 1.8 lbs is the minimum density I would consider in a good quality mattress (and I believe this is what it has but it could vary depending on which licensee makes it). Lower than this would be found more (or at least should be) in a lower budget mattress. Higher density would be better yet but 1.8 is the “minimum” I would look at outside of lower budget mattresses…

Phoenix

12

hello Brownie19, are you happy with Iseries Expression ?

I just so one today and I really liked.

tks for your comments.

13

Hi mbayer,

I’m not Brownie19 of course and hopefully they will see your post and reply but I would also make sure you can confirm the quality of the materials in the iSeries Expression (which may not be possible) because as you can see from the description here there are several inches of unknown and lower quality materials in the comfort layers above the innerspring which would likely be a weak link in the mattress in terms of durability. This can lead to the more rapid loss of comfort and support and the need to replace the mattress more quickly than you would have hoped and the loss of comfort and support isn’t covered by a warranty.

Just in case you haven’t read it yet … I would start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones (see this article). As you can see … I would avoid the iSeries Expression or any mattress where there are 2" or more of unknown or lower quality materials that will likely soften and break down more quickly than higher quality materials.

Phoenix