The first was a Denver Mattress Vail, with a thick foam pillowtop and pocketed coils, for about $800. We used it on an ikea platform bed. It developed deep body impressions after about 1.5 years, and the top deformed.
We exchanged under warranty for the Denver Mattress Durango, a firm version of basically the same thing, without the 3" foam pillowtop. We thought we’d avoid the foam problem by going firm. Sadly, the edge delaminated within a couple of years and we still got body impressions. Plus, it was too firm for us. We tried to fix that with a memory foam topper, but of course the mattress had already failed.
They replaced it under warranty. We switched to a simmons beautyrest classic “plush/firm”, thinking that maybe the Denver Mattress quality just wasn’t as good as the national brands.
Predictably, that didn’t prove to be the case. After two years, the Simmons has matching 1.5" body impressions and we are sleeping poorly.
Denver Mattress says they will take care of us, but that something else MUST be going on, because they never see 3 failed mattresses from the same customer. They admit the comfort layer in the Simmons is 1.5lb poly. But they are now saying:
body impressions are normal, and don’t cause poor sleep.
maybe we sweat too much, and that’s causing the foam to break down…
maybe our platform bed has a problem that is ruining mattresses…even though there is a nice high ridge down the middle where the center support is, and the gap between slats is only 2.5"
The first remark is nonsense, but Is it possible that either of the 2 is true? And, should i consider giving them $200 more to upgrade to the Telluride, which has some 1.8lb poly, some latex, and some soy foam over more pocket coils? I’ve read much of this site; it doesn’t look completely stupid but they claim the other two Denver models also had the 1.8lb polyfoam, which makes me nervous about all of their products.
The other option is to cut my losses and spend $2k at urban mattress, foamsource, or verlo on sormething all-latex.
The first place I would start your mattress research is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and avoid the worst ones.
The best way to compare the quality and value of a mattress is based on its construction and the quality of the materials that are inside it.
Do you mean there is a “nice high ridge” ridge in the platform bed?
The Telluride uses good quality materials and has no obvious weak links in the mattress but it would also depend on how well it matched your body weight and sleeping style because it’s on the soft side which can also affect durability. There is more about the factors that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here. Latex is much more durable than 1.8 lb polyfoam (which is at the bottom end of what I would consider to be a good quality material in a one sided mattress but of course it would also depend on the specific design of the mattress and on your body type/weight and sleeping style)
I would certainly avoid the mainstream mattresses they also sell.
Re: the ridge, the platform bed seems completely flat to me when i remove the mattress, but the mattress has two body impressions, one on either side, with what feels like a ridge in the middle when sleeping. When you look at the bare mattress, you see the body impressions; the ‘ridge’ in the center is the same height as the edges of the mattress.
The platform bed is a standard ikea one with a steel center beam and pine slats that span from the edge of the bed to the center beam, spaced about 2.5" apart. The center beam doesn’t have middle supports that reach the ground, but since the sagging is not along the center beam, i was thinking this was not the issue.
It’s a queen-sized bed. I weigh about 215 pounds and my wife is 130. We are side sleepers.
My question is this - is it possible that a problem with the platform bed is contributing to these 3 failed mattresses? How would I tell?
Thanks so much for a great site! (I’ve read the referenced posts.)
While it’s probably unlikely … it’s a possibility and I would check the platform for any sagging with a straight edge or a tight string from side to side and check for any undue amount of flex with more concentrated weight to make sure that it’s not sagging under the weight of you and the mattress. It’s also a good idea to have at least one leg in the middle of the center support beam for a queen (most warranties require it including Denver Mattress).
Other than that it may be difficult to track down the underlying cause of the pattern you are experiencing and there are many possibilities that could be the cause either by themselves or in combination. Sometimes just identifying the pattern itself is the best you can do when the underlying reason for your experience isn’t clear (and can’t really be known with certainty without taking the mattress apart).
A few more detailed comments …
This is “partly true”. Almost all soft pillowtop mattresses will soften and impress to some degree and this is normal and for the most part unavoidable. It’s in the nature of thicker layers of soft materials in a pillowtop even when they are good quality. The key here is to minimize this by using more durable and firmer materials rather than avoid it completely. 1.8 lb polyfoam is at the bottom end of “good quality” polyfoam but some people that for some reason connected with their body type or sleeping style are harder on mattresses may do better with higher quality materials yet.
With larger sizes there can also be some shifting or “bunching” of materials into the areas that aren’t used regularly and this can also lead to ridges in the center of a mattress and some relative dips in areas that are used more often. This may or may not be in combination with actual foam softening where the materials themselves are also softening under the heavier areas of the body (impressions or soft spots that are only apparent when you are on the mattress).
With both of these it’s important to differentiate “normal” impressions or softening that don’t affect your comfort or alignment with a degree of impressions or softening that does. In other words … is it a visual or aesthetic issue or an issue that is actually causing symptoms on the mattress.
616 Swedish individually wrapped, foam encased coils of 14.5 gauge tempered steel
Foundation: High profile semi-flex steel module[/quote]
This has 2" of quiltflex which is a lower density foam which could be part of the cause. This is also in combination with another 5/8" of polyfoam in the quilting and another 2.5" of convoluted polyfoam under the latex (convoluted foam tends to be less durable than a solid layer). This is a total of over 5" of polyfoam which may be on the thick side for heavier weights and there is a lot of room for softening and impressing (smaller percentages of thickness loss will have a bigger effect on thicker layers). You also mentioned that in addition to the impressions that the top had also “deformed” somehow so this may also be a clue to what was happening (possible shifting or bunching or the pillowtop layer).
Double Knit Ticking
1½" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1" BioFlex™ Soy Based Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier
1¼" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1¼" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1 Flex Net Insulator
Coil Density: 744* Foam Encased,
INDIVIDUALLY WRAPPED Coils (Queen Size)
14.5 Gauge Tempered Steel[/quote]
This has a little less foam in it but the foam is firmer (more durable) and it also uses higher density polyfoam in the top layers (1.8 lb instead of quiltflex) which would also improve durability. It is also a tight top construction which would reduce the ridge in the middle vs a pillowtop construction. Unfortunately this one failed primarily for a different reason because the foam that was used to surround the innerspring delaminated (although you mentioned you still had some impressions). Overall though there is still about 5" of polyfoam in this mattress which is quite a bit even though it would be more durable because of the higher density and greater firmness.
[quote]They replaced it under warranty. We switched to a simmons beautyrest classic “plush/firm”, thinking that maybe the Denver Mattress quality just wasn’t as good as the national brands.
Predictably, that didn’t prove to be the case. After two years, the Simmons has matching 1.5" body impressions and we are sleeping poorly.[/quote]
As you mentioned … the foams used in the Simmons are lower quality and less durable than the 1.8 lb polyfoam that Denver mattress uses so this experience isn’t surprising.
Stretch Knit Ticking
1½" 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1" Bioflex™ Soy Based Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier
2" Talalay Latex
1¼" 1.8lb Density Convoluted Foam
1 Flex Net Insulator
Coil Density: 1080* Individually Wrapped, Foam Encased
Coils (Queen Size)
16 Gauge Tempered Steel
*ALL coil counts are based on Queen Size mattress coil counts. Please ask your salesperson for details. [/quote]
This is somewhat similar to the Vail but also uses the 1.8 lb polyfoam in the quilting like the Durango and instead of a thicker pillowtop construction like the Vail this has a tight top with a more deeply tufted surface both of which would make it more durable and less prone to softening, shifting and bunching. It also has 2" less latex (but this is more of a “value” issue than a durability issue although even softer latex will soften more than firmer latex).
So overall after this long and probably more detailed post than you perhaps wanted to read … I would say that the Telluride would probably hold up better for you than the Vail but given your experience with all of these and the fact that you appear to be quite “tough” on mattresses that would probably work well for most people I would be a little hesitant and would tend to look for a mattress that used less polyfoam in its construction (in the upper layers especially) or higher density polyfoam (or latex) to reduce the risk of repeating your experience once again.
Since your platform bed is also a common factor in all your issues and it’s also “somewhat questionable” … I would also suggest replacing it or at least adding a leg under the center support and perhaps adding a bunkie board over it to reduce the chances that it’s one of the contributing causes behind your issues.
Unfortunately that’s about as “accurate” or specific as I can be
We decided to switch brands entirely and went with the 8" NuLex all-talalay latex bed from foamsource.com/Boulder Comforts, who offered a good price, and a good comfort guarantee (we can trade out foam until we get the firmness we want). Looking forward to sleeping on this tonight, and I hope it gets us out of the mattress-shopping business for a few years.
Denver Mattress did the right thing - after 3 failed mattresses, they gave us a refund. I can’t complain about their customer and warranty service. Interestingly, I told a coworker today I was getting a new mattress. “Really?” he said. “A Denver Mattress? I love my Denver Mattress”. Turns out he’s had one for 7 years or so and it’s been great… but that was after they replaced his first, failed mattress after a year under warranty. If you’re buying an innerspring mattress, you could do worse. They really do want to make things right. I believe they would have continued with several more replacements if that’s what it took.
In the end, I think my problem was a series of coincidental manufacturing defects. All three failed mattresses had pocketed coils. In all three, the top edge had started to bulge out. I think the top polyfoam layers had become detached from the side foam. I’m told that this can happen when either too much or too little glue is used. When this happened, the pocket coils might have started to fall over to the side, resulting in sinking in the middle where our weight was. We may have also experienced some foam breakdown, particularly in the Simmons with 1.5lb foam.
The biggest lesson for me? The more complex the design of the mattress, the more potential there is for defects.